Rafa world class
He's not even in the top 5 RBs in the league. He's never been anything close to world class.
He has been world class only in this forum, nobody outside of here considered him a world class, only a decent player at the best.
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He has been world class only in this forum, nobody outside of here considered him a world class, only a decent player at the best.
Darmian was the best wingback in Serie A by all accounts, so clearly he's much more capable in "attack" then some are making him out to be. He's played a handful of pre season games with a new club, in a new country - where he doesn't even speak/understand English that well.
So he's clearly not going to be confident and perform at his best yet. The lad will only get better, but the signs are really promising.
So he's clearly not going to be confident and perform at his best yet. The lad will only get better, but the signs are really promising.
Well it seems you've already done that with Darmian.
Also people are comparing him with Valencia in the sense we finnally have a proper RB unlike Valencia who's a winger turned to RB.
From your statements it seems Darmian is really poor to average player from 3 preseason games.
Also Zabaleta being the best RB in the 'strongest of season' (whatever that means) in the PL doesnt automatically make him wc.
Against Barcelona he charged forward several times, but didn't get the ball and doesn't matter how good a FB is attacking wise, he msotly depends on overlapping and if the winger doesn't give him the ball, there isn't much he can do.
If we are going to have wingers who ignore the overlapping fullbacks, then Darmian and Shaw may as well stay back and concentrate on defending. Because if the winger then messes up the FB is well out of position anyway.
that means cutting off a very potential source of havoc
I know but we depend on winger and fullbacks for our attacking play, so it needs to be addressed. I maid this point only because some people are complaining about his attacking abilities.
That's not solely them to blame now is it. Not like Welbeck's goal against us in the cup.
I know that, so someone tell the wingers to involve the FB's properly. Otherwise they will just be like a spare part who gets caught up by the goal line.
Zabaleta had an absolutely brilliant season and you could possibly say he was world class, but there were still a handful of right backs that were better than him.
Rafael has never been one of the best right backs in the world. He hasn't, and you're extremely wrong in saying that. No one on here agrees with you for feck sake
While they might get used regularly, a gambling forward run always helps even if a winger decided not to use them. Look at beckham/Neville, he used to get a lot a lot more time with Neville overlapping because the defenders couldn't get too tight. If Neville never made those runs the defender could easily get tighter and show him inside.
Being a fullback requires lots of stamina but you have to accept sometimes you are purely making a dummy run.
that basically means you never seen him play or that you are biased towards him. People also don't remember what happened last season let alone some seasons back.. you're forgiven if you name three rightbacks who were significantly better than those two mentioned but it's pathetic to even start. Because it's simply incomparable as the two aced the most toughest of leagues in the world while some other fullbacks aced their own league. Pathetic and subjective to even start but you can have a go..Zabaleta had an absolutely brilliant season and you could possibly say he was world class, but there were still a handful of right backs that were better than him.
Rafael has never been one of the best right backs in the world. He hasn't, and you're extremely wrong in saying that. No one on here agrees with you for feck sake
Darmian is very good attacking wise. He isn't Evra or Cole in that aspect, but he is hardly Azpilicueta who doesn't do much attacking wise.
So according to your logic, Harry Kane is now a world class player - amongst the best strikers in the world - because he had a brilliant season last year? Of course not. To be recognised as one of the best in your position you have to be consistently brilliant there, that's why I said you could possibly argue that case for Zabaleta. Rafael had a good season in 2012/13, not even a brilliant one, never mind enough to be said to be 'world class'. Ridiculous claim, frankly.
Who would you say is world class at United right now then? I can think of one.
Some hardcore debating going on.
'While some other full backs aced their own league.' So I was probably right when I said that if you're not PL proven you might as well be dead.For starters Dani Alves was a much better player than any Premier League right back over the last 10 years or so. Lahm has always been significantly better than any PL full back too.
Zabaleta was good. Quite some distance from world class level though. Alves and Lahm both considerably better than him and possibly the only world class right backs of the recent years (until Lahm was shifted to midfield for some strange reason), some players equally good during last years at one point or another (Lichsteiner, Piszczek, Carvajal). When it comes to full backs Marcelo and Alaba are also miles ahead of Zabaleta in terms of quality.
'Strongest of seasons'. Premier League teams record in Champions League over the past 3-4 years has been abysmal. City getting knocked out by the first good team they meet failing to make it out of groups twice. Arsenal not getting past last 16 even once, United never beating anyone decent (also knocked out in group stages in 2011), Chelsea aside from 2012 when they fluked it also never made any lasting impression and don't even get me started on Liverpool last year or English teams in Europa League. Chelsea were the only side that did any decent in Europe between 2011 and now. Doing well in Premier League is not really anything that plays in Zabaleta's favour when you consider the quality of players Lahm, Marcelo, Alaba and Alves came up against in Champions League (where their teams did well unlike City) and their domestic competitions.
But I guess you are just one of the people who reckon that until you've done it againt Lennon, McManaman and Brunt you do not exist.
Agree.
If we go by 23 world class players (2 players for position and 3 keepers) then Zabaleta was never (close) to a world class player. If we go by 5 players for position, then it could be argued (argued not definitely proven) that Zabaleta was a world class player, while Rafael wasn't.
We cannot really name 4-5 world class per each position. How many world class strikers are there now? Midfielders? Attackers? World class definition should be 25-30 best players on the planet, not 70.
Rafael was never a world class player even if we stretch it to 5-6 per position I think.
Yep.
The best 'definition' I have seen is probably 23 players (like the selection for WC/Euros). Probably add a few attackers (generally there are more than 4 really top strikers) and remove players from any position if needed (for example it can be argued that there isn't a single world class left back).
Anyway, Zabaleta was never a top 30 player in the world, and probably not even a top 50 player in the world. Rafael was never a top 50 player in the world. Both of them were easily top 100 player in the world in 12-13, but that isn't world class.
For Rafael is even more easy IMO. You cannot be world class if you don't perform for 3 seasons or so in a very high level. It is the reason why I wouldn't count Kane or Sterling world class.
Alaba and Marcelo.
Agree with this definition. Rafael was only ever close in 12-13 and he was still some way behind Lahm and Alves.
I do feel if you turned back time and went to that old Rafael thread 3 years or so back you would find that redcafe talked about him in a reverent manner. I distinctly remember the love and adoration he was showered with by nearly every cafite, and the scenario was much the opposite on here: the one or two people who dared to suggest he was not very good were quickly shot down in much the same sarcastic manner... I believe @m1y2 is the sane and proper human being here, he was simply one out of many on the caf who toekissingly adored the little guy, everyone was praising his passion and attacking play and if there were 3 or 4 people who qiestioned his defending, it would have attracted many condescending comments about how these people only formed those opinions from the same shit newspapers who said DDG was crap... it seems only @m1y2 has decided not to rewrite redcafe history.
Now that he has come down with injuries, fallen out of favour after the Fergie era and struggled to find form, he is simply getting dropped by the harsh mentality of football supporters. No respect.
That is why I feel footballers may act the cnut and follow where the money is, but supporters are just as fickle: lose your value and they want rid asap. If you are good or great, they will scream murder and disloyalty if it is the footballer who decides he can find a better place to ply his trade.
Now that he has come down with injuries, fallen out of favour after the Fergie era and struggled to find form, he is simply getting dropped by the harsh mentality of football supporters. No respect.
That is why I feel footballers may act the cnut and follow where the money is, but supporters are just as fickle: lose your value and they want rid asap. If you are good or great, they will scream murder and disloyalty if it is the footballer who decides he can find a better place to ply his trade.
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There is a difference between liking a player and calling him world class. No one is denying that he was good till 12/13. However to call him world class would be a stretch.Can't really blame anyone else for his loss of form. At a team like United you really can't retain a player in the team if he doesn't offer anything.
Marcelo isn't world class. He is good but nothing special. And like 90% of Brazilian full backs, he is average defensively. Alaba too isn't world class yet. But as he is young he is potentially going to be one if he continues the performances. And he also doesn't really play at LB anymore for bayern. Last season he played even at AM with bernat at LB
Which mostly based on the fact that he's great offensively, also been said about Alves numerous times with no real basis to it. He's good enough defensively and Alves in his prime was excellent defensively too.
You had quite a number of people on here calling him just that, world class/best rb in the premier league/wouldn't swap him for any other rb, etc. The love was real and it wasn't just because he looked like a huggable curly teddybear or because he tried to murder Tevez.
Alves was world class, wouldn't say that Marcelo is. Alaba might have become one, but he plays now as midfielder.
To be fair, saying that he was the best RB in the league wasn't overrating him that much. Zabaleta was probably better, but it was marginal. Rafael was by far our best defender last season, and our third most important player (after Carrick and RVP), in a season when we walked the league.
If he had played for 2-3 seasons in that level, and improving a bit with experience, he would have been world class.
Anyway, while Caf isn't exactly RAWK in that aspect, we have a tendency to overrate our players. Even Evans was called world class at some time from people here. And Fletcher while a great player, was never world class but people called him so. Smalling will be the next in line.
Anyway, the real question is can Darmian become a world class RB? He looks a Zambrotta-lite to me. In a few years, who knows. He certainly has potential to become a very top right back. And while I love(d) Rafael, I am extremely happy that we signed Darmian. He is as good as Rafael has ever been, but more importantly, he never gets injured.
Got forward well against Barca. I'm very optimistic about him as a signing.
world class player - that expression has lost any meaning long time ago as it's thrown around to no end.
This. Lallana can't wait to train with the world class talent back at Melwood? Give me a break.
Been excellent so far
He's class. One of my favourite United players already.
Solid....
Defensively superb.
Best signing of the summer so far, absolute class and isn't afraid of getting forward.
Did feck all when he switched over to LB though.
Did feck all when he switched over to LB though.
The engine on him! Ran tirelessly up and down that sideline all game long, even covering up for Calamity Phil and Johnstone a couple times in the process. He's going to be a special player if LvG doesn't dick around benching him for Valencia.
At least he played well.
I love him.
Very impressive against PSG. Only defender who seemed to be reading the game, getting back several times to cover.
I was worried because he seems so quiet off pitch, but damn has he proven me wrong out there. Great performance...again. feck Juventus!
So how long do we have before Real come in for him?
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