Matheus Cunha

Sassy Colin said:
So you've heard of him then?
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Yes but I watched Atletico even less than I usually do last season. I only watched Real Madrid and some Barca games as far as la liga teams go. So I don’t know much about him.
 
Unpopular opinion but I'd rather spend that 50m on Ivan Toney who can actually score goals
 
So this guy has been publicly criticized by 2 different coaches for being lazy already in his short career. He could barely get off Atletico's bench last season and doesn't have a good goal scoring record. And we're going to pay double what they paid last year?!
 
Iirc correctly he had a high (not as high) amount of pressures before Atletico signed him too. However, he does come off the bench and press and close down players. It looks like Simeone sends him on with orders to do that and obviously that will make his numbers for it higher, but theres also a reason why he's picked to do that job and not someone else

I think he has the potential to be above Firminho level, but doubt he'll get to a Mane or Salah level.
 
MrEleson said:
Yes but I watched Atletico even less than I usually do last season. I only watched Real Madrid and some Barca games as far as la liga teams go. So I don’t know much about him.
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I respect you for even watching one game of Atletico. I’d rather watch the weather news for Manchester.
 
House Mkhitaryan said:
So this guy has been publicly criticized by 2 different coaches for being lazy already in his short career. He could barely get off Atletico's bench last season and doesn't have a good goal scoring record. And we're going to pay double what they paid last year?!
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Exciting times.
 
BayernFan87 said:
Yeah I don't know where some "he's running and pressing all game" takes on here come from.

He's quick, but he's lazy.
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It comes from his stats. For the last season he is in the 95 percentile of strikers for attempted pressures, 93 for successful pressures per 90 mins. But honestly i could imagine his stats are quite inflated because he rarely started a game last season and i guess in a 20 min sub appearance you can just press more as you don't have to conserve your energy for 90 mins.

He had 72 successful pressures in La Liga in 1053 minutes last year. Ronaldo had 49 in 2459 minutes last season. Of course, Ronaldo is the opposite of a hard working striker. But if we compare him with other strikers like Kane, who had 110 in 3232 minutes and isn't considerd as lazy, it doesn't look too bad. Or Luis Diaz, who is looking like he is constantly running and pressing. He has 59 in 964 minutes for Liverpool last year.

Therefore i am a bit sceptical if he continues to press hard if he plays full games but at least the one season in Germany where he started most matches he also had very good stats with 6 successful pressures per 90 which is very high for strikers/attacking midfielders/wingers.

Maybe the stats are deceiving me but i don't think he is - like the one poster called - a "Schönwetterfußballer". And if he works his socks off i'll take him. If we gonna trust ETH and want to implement his idea i would prefer a striker who works hard but will score a few less than CR7. We are not gonna be good this season anyway, so better start to implement a progressive football style than grinding out results with a 37 year old striker (what we didn't even manage to do since he came back...so not even close to working).
 
Ekeke said:
Iirc correctly he had a high (not as high) amount of pressures before Atletico signed him too. However, he does come off the bench and press and close down players. It looks like Simeone sends him on with orders to do that and obviously that will make his numbers for it higher, but theres also a reason why he's picked to do that job and not someone else

I think he has the potential to be above Firminho level, but doubt he'll get to a Mane or Salah level.
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Given how underrated Firminho's role in Liverpool's team functioning as a unit is, that is high praise indeed. If he's that good we should snatch him up quickly.
 
The only times I've seen him play (For Brazil and Atletico) he's always come across as a bit of an arsehole who complains when he doesn't get the pass and looks to shoot constantly rather than playing others in.

I was actually surprised he was playing for Brazil given their attacking talent to be honest but maybe I just caught a bad couple of matches.
 
Kasper said:
My flatmate is a Hertha fan so I actually did watch him a bit, in short:
Pro:
- very good technical abilities and great dribbling
- very good work rate and pressing (although it has to be said, the numbers being mentioned are definitely Simeone influenced, he wasn't that much of a pressing monster at Hertha)

Cons:
- disappears when things aren't going well
- doesn't score a lot despite having a good shot.

Overall I'd say he's a bit like a budget version of Bruno with better pressing. Can create a lot but downside is the risk he takes which can lead to plenty of misplaced passes. There's a reason why both Leipzig and Atletico were/are willing to let him go so quickly.

On the panic buy scale I'd rate him above Arnautovic and about par/slightly below Rabiot. 50m is definitely a rough overpay but given your current situation I think no one of you is under the illusion that he was part of the transfer plan all along. For me he isn't the calibre of what you aim for (top 4 PL) but well, if you're looking for any sort of improvements in quality and depth he definitely can add something. At best I'd say he ends up like e.g. Herrera, a quality servant for a couple of years but not a legend, at worst he'll be another deadwood that you'll have trouble offloading in a year.
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The BiB will be a huge problem joining us. I suppose he’ll fit in well with the furniture.
 
Laurencio said:
Given how underrated Firminho's role in Liverpool's team functioning as a unit is, that is high praise indeed. If he's that good we should snatch him up quickly.
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Again I'm saying potential. Firminho is proven as someone who settled and did well for Liverpool, in a combination with 2 even better players in attack. He doesnt score a huge amount but he causes problems

So if we got him and he settled, I think thats eventually the kind of thing we could see. He'd be a threat even though he might not score enough goals for some, like people say about Firminho
 
PaulScholes99 said:
It comes from his stats. For the last season he is in the 95 percentile of strikers for attempted pressures, 93 for successful pressures per 90 mins. But honestly i could imagine his stats are quite inflated because he rarely started a game last season and i guess in a 20 min sub appearance you can just press more as you don't have to conserve your energy for 90 mins.

He had 72 successful pressures in La Liga in 1053 minutes last year. Ronaldo had 49 in 2459 minutes last season. Of course, Ronaldo is the opposite of a hard working striker. But if we compare him with other strikers like Kane, who had 110 in 3232 minutes and isn't considerd as lazy, it doesn't look too bad. Or Luis Diaz, who is looking like he is constantly running and pressing. He has 59 in 964 minutes for Liverpool last year.

Therefore i am a bit sceptical if he continues to press hard if he plays full games but at least the one season in Germany where he started most matches he also had very good stats with 6 successful pressures per 90 which is very high for strikers/attacking midfielders/wingers.

Maybe the stats are deceiving me but i don't think he is - like the one poster called - a "Schönwetterfußballer". And if he works his socks off i'll take him. If we gonna trust ETH and want to implement his idea i would prefer a striker who works hard but will score a few less than CR7. We are not gonna be good this season anyway, so better start to implement a progressive football style than grinding out results with a 37 year old striker (what we didn't even manage to do since he came back...so not even close to working).
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I was the guy calling him a Schönwetterfussballer ;)

I'm a bit surprised by these statistics to be honest. Maybe your explanation is right that it is due to him mostly being subbed in, maybe it's due to Simeone. I don't know.

When he was at Leipzig I watched him very regularly and that was a team that pressed really well. But he couldn't do it on the same level as his team mates.

As I said, I haven't followed him much at Atletico, but in the Bundesliga he was a (very) poor man's version of Neymar.
 
Kasper said:
My flatmate is a Hertha fan so I actually did watch him a bit, in short:
Pro:
- very good technical abilities and great dribbling
- very good work rate and pressing (although it has to be said, the numbers being mentioned are definitely Simeone influenced, he wasn't that much of a pressing monster at Hertha)

Cons:
- disappears when things aren't going well
- doesn't score a lot despite having a good shot.

Overall I'd say he's a bit like a budget version of Bruno with better pressing. Can create a lot but downside is the risk he takes which can lead to plenty of misplaced passes. There's a reason why both Leipzig and Atletico were/are willing to let him go so quickly.

On the panic buy scale I'd rate him above Arnautovic and about par/slightly below Rabiot. 50m is definitely a rough overpay but given your current situation I think no one of you is under the illusion that he was part of the transfer plan all along. For me he isn't the calibre of what you aim for (top 4 PL) but well, if you're looking for any sort of improvements in quality and depth he definitely can add something. At best I'd say he ends up like e.g. Herrera, a quality servant for a couple of years but not a legend, at worst he'll be another deadwood that you'll have trouble offloading in a year.
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Cheers, sounds terrible tbh. I would rather Morata for a stop gap and a lower fee.
 
Ekeke said:
Iirc correctly he had a high (not as high) amount of pressures before Atletico signed him too. However, he does come off the bench and press and close down players. It looks like Simeone sends him on with orders to do that and obviously that will make his numbers for it higher, but theres also a reason why he's picked to do that job and not someone else

I think he has the potential to be above Firminho level, but doubt he'll get to a Mane or Salah level.
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Somewhere between Firmino & those two would do wonders for this team, however the lazy and storms off when things don't go his way thing worries me. We need an Atletico fans POV on this.
 
Ekeke said:
Again I'm saying potential. Firminho is proven as someone who settled and did well for Liverpool, in a combination with 2 even better players in attack. He doesnt score a huge amount but he causes problems

So if we got him and he settled, I think thats eventually the kind of thing we could see. He'd be a threat even though he might not score enough goals for some, like people say about Firminho
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How is his link up play, strength and aerial ability? because I would love someone like Firminho up top - he is a vastly underrated player.
 
BayernFan87 said:
I was the guy calling him a Schönwetterfussballer ;)

I'm a bit surprised by these statistics to be honest. Maybe your explanation is right that it is due to him mostly being subbed in, maybe it's due to Simeone. I don't know.

When he was at Leipzig I watched him very regularly and that was a team that pressed really well. But he couldn't do it on the same level as his team mates.

As I said, I haven't followed him much at Atletico, but in the Bundesliga he was a (very) poor man's version of Neymar.
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So he's technically skilled and now knows how to press, a poor man Neymar (technically) who works hard is a very decent footballer.
 
Seems like the new Welbeck. Good technical skills, good pressing and hold up, and loves those chips. I was a big fan of welbeck over hernandez, so Cunha has my approval. Much better than the other strikers mentioned before.
 
croadyman said:
Somewhere between Firmino & those two would do wonders for this team, however the lazy and storms off when things don't go his way thing worries me. We need an Atletico fans POV on this.
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He's 23 though. That stuff is harder to correct in say a 37 year old...
 
Laurencio said:
How is his link up play, strength and aerial ability? because I would love someone like Firminho up top - he is a vastly underrated player.
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Not sure about in the air. It may well be a weakness.

But from what I saw having a check on him when he was in Germany he looked like he had good linkup play. In terms of strength I didnt really see any positive or negative, I observed that he would be determined to fight for the ball at times which has a similar effect. If the ball was loose or his shot was blocked he'd be looking to get the breaking ball again for example
 
RacingClub said:
The only times I've seen him play (For Brazil and Atletico) he's always come across as a bit of an arsehole who complains when he doesn't get the pass and looks to shoot constantly rather than playing others in.

I was actually surprised he was playing for Brazil given their attacking talent to be honest but maybe I just caught a bad couple of matches.
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I’m not sure why you need to bring Ronaldo into this conversation. Please stay on topic.
 
BayernFan87 said:
I was the guy calling him a Schönwetterfussballer ;)

I'm a bit surprised by these statistics to be honest. Maybe your explanation is right that it is due to him mostly being subbed in, maybe it's due to Simeone. I don't know.

When he was at Leipzig I watched him very regularly and that was a team that pressed really well. But he couldn't do it on the same level as his team mates.

As I said, I haven't followed him much at Atletico, but in the Bundesliga he was a (very) poor man's version of Neymar.
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If it looked like a passive aggressive attack against your post i am sorry, definitely wasn't intended so.

Just looked a bit more through his stats. The one season where he actually played a bit for Leipzig (850 mins in the Bundesliga) he actually had good pressing stats (26 attempted, 6.8 successful). But well, it's just stats so i tend to believe you that he wasn't pressing as good as his teammates as you are the one who actually watched him regularly while i have maybe seen him like 5 times.
 
mu4c_20le said:
Unpopular opinion but I'd rather spend that 50m on Ivan Toney who can actually score goals
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39th percentile in pressing, 50th in non penalty goals xg and assists, 19th percentile xg.

Vs

95th percentile in pressing, 93rd percentile in non penalty goals xg and assists, 93rd percentile in non penalty xg

All stats are per 90 minutes of playing time. Now which player would you rather have?
 
Chief123 said:
I’m not sure why you need to bring Ronaldo into this conversation. Please stay on topic.
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:lol: to be honest I did think (During the world cup qualifiers) "Who does this fella think he is? Ronaldo?" but that was supposed to be a slight on Cunhas entitled behavior on the pitch vs his actual accomplishments at the time.

To be fair to him he wasn't as bad for that when I seen him for Atletico.

He does move more than Cristiano too!
 
Adam-Utd said:
the stats don’t lie when it comes to pressing. maybe he just had a bad game and dropped his head? i’d certainly believe the stats over a disgruntled ex fan anyway
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Like the stats showing joe Allen as the best passer in europe at one time? Yeh. I’ll trust fans who’ve been watching him regularly. Skill and such are hard to judge. But laziness is certainly much easier to spot.
 
BayernFan87 said:
I was the guy calling him a Schönwetterfussballer ;)

I'm a bit surprised by these statistics to be honest. Maybe your explanation is right that it is due to him mostly being subbed in, maybe it's due to Simeone. I don't know.

When he was at Leipzig I watched him very regularly and that was a team that pressed really well. But he couldn't do it on the same level as his team mates.

As I said, I haven't followed him much at Atletico, but in the Bundesliga he was a (very) poor man's version of Neymar.
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Below are his pressing stats from Lepizig.

Screenshot_20220816-005110_Chrome.jpg

Screenshot_20220816-005122_Chrome.jpg


So whatever you saw and however it compared to his teammates, he was certainly hitting good numbers.
 
Laurencio said:
Given how underrated Firminho's role in Liverpool's team functioning as a unit is, that is high praise indeed. If he's that good we should snatch him up quickly.
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Yeah, i think Firmino was far more important in Liverpools evolution as a team than Mane for instance. If we could pick up a player like that it would be great.
 
The days of "is he good enough for us" are over. The question is "he surely cant be worse than what we have can he?"
 
Isotope said:
Like the stats showing joe Allen as the best passer in europe at one time? Yeh. I’ll trust fans who’ve been watching him regularly. Skill and such are hard to judge. But laziness is certainly much easier to spot.
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Well stats arent perfect but getting a decent number of pressures per game whilst also being lazy doesnt seem compatible. Unless he's getting them by accident chasing a butterfly around the pitch.
 
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