Mateo Kovacic

roonster09 said:
It has nothing to do with G+A. People rated so many players who barely scored or assisted. People rate Modric as the best CM in the last 5-6 years, same with Kroos too, Thiago, Kimmich, Jorginho, Fernandinho, Fabinho, Kante, Casemiro, Busquets, Alonso and many others were rated highly and they barely scored or assisted (or even at top 5-10 when it comes to chances created). They were all rated highly as they were part of winning teams and started almost all the time.

He wasn't rated as one of the best as he wasn't regular at any of his previous clubs. He was underwhelming at Inter in the little chances he got, he was a sub player at Madrid and at Chelsea he started around 21, 23, 21, 12 league games. That's not a lot.

Right or wrong, starting almost all games and winning makes the player highly rated.
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So what has changed now then? Why is he rated now? You seem to have missed the ‘immediately’ part of my sentence. Even as a Chelsea player. It takes a bit longer for neutrals to ‘get’ you as a player when there is no obvious eye-catching statistic to look towards. Either you score and assist, you lead some chart for ball recoveries or whatever - but I have seen a lot of players like Kovacic initially be described as ‘nothing’ players or people asking what do they actually do. In the right settings (usually a team that wins games and trophies), appreciation grows over time, with commentators initially referring to them as ‘under appreciated ’ until everyone just gets it. But it takes longer. A lot of players fall in between amazing offensive stats and amazing defensive stats. There’s a thread on Curtis Jones in this forum full of ‘great technique but what does he do?’ comments too.

Edit: - in fact I just looked up the Jones thread and one of the very first comments I saw was from your good self saying something along the lines of ‘bit of a nothing player, but great technique’.

He’s a player that will probably get more dues later after having contributed to a successful team for many years.
 
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Rozay said:
So what has changed now then? Why is he rated now? You seem to have missed the ‘immediately’ part of my sentence. Even as a Chelsea player. It takes a bit longer for neutrals to ‘get’ you as a player when there is no obvious eye-catching statistic to look towards. Either you score and assist, you lead some chart for ball recoveries or whatever - but I have seen a lot of players like Kovacic initially be described as ‘nothing’ players or people asking what do they actually do. In the right settings (usually a team that wins games and trophies), appreciation grows over time, with commentators initially referring to them as ‘under appreciated ’ until everyone just gets it. But it takes longer. A lot of players fall in between amazing offensive stats and amazing defensive stats. There’s a thread on Curtis Jones in this forum full of ‘great technique but what does he do?’ comments too.

Edit: - in fact I just looked up the Jones thread and one of the very first comments I saw was from your good self saying something along the lines of ‘doesn’t score, doesn’t create, but great technique’.

He’s a player that will probably get more dues later after having contributed to a successful team for many years.
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Kovacic is a eye catching player, he was always rated highly as a youngster due to his superb dribbling ability but as a big player it took time as he wasn't playing regularly. Now that he is playing regularly and played well against big teams, he is getting the recognition.

The part about score, assist, ball recoveries is not true. I gave you examples of players who were all highly rated without topping any of those charts. Common thing between all of them is, they play regularly and win/won big trophies.

I wanted us to sign him when he was at Inter (actually I wanted him before he went to Inter, he was very highly rated when he was young player) and wanted him when Inter barely played him.

Also he isn't rated just now, from last 1-2 seasons he is getting the recognition, especially since Tuchel took over.
 
roonster09 said:
Kovacic is a eye catching player, he was always rated highly as a youngster due to his superb dribbling ability but as a big player it took time as he wasn't playing regularly. Now that he is playing regularly and played well against big teams, he is getting the recognition.

The part about score, assist, ball recoveries is not true. I gave you examples of players who were all highly rated without topping any of those charts. Common thing between all of them is, they play regularly and win/won big trophies.

I wanted us to sign him when he was at Inter (actually I wanted him before he went to Inter, he was very highly rated when he was young player) and wanted him when Inter barely played him.

Also he isn't rated just now, from last 1-2 seasons he is getting the recognition, especially since Tuchel took over.
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By ‘now’, I didn’t mean in the last week. I mean since Chelsea became a team that was spoken of more positively than negatively again. Quite simply, the trajectory was different to an Oscar, who came in and scored a few goals and was heralded as a sensation immediately. Your examples were not really my point as such. I said ‘immediately’. I think it takes a little longer, is all. I’ve read many people asking ‘what does he do’ at first with in between players. And I wouldn’t call a lot of the players you names as in betweeners anyway, I think everyone gets a DM now, even in their various guises. A player in the team neither to defend nor attack, but more to just help the team play better, I think, is more slowly appreciated. If their team wins a lot, then of course, every contributor gets appreciated in such a context.

Kovacic is a certain type. Ruben Neves (or Alonso/Kimmich) types are rated. It took a while, but those players have been fashionable for a long time now in England. I’ve felt for a while that the back and front of a midfield was greatly appreciated in the PL, but not so much the middle. Just a user of the ball. I think this is the part that United need to go to another level. A comfortable ball player, but not necessarily a regista - a more busy one who can get it all over the pitch and be comfortable with it. I think that’s why I rate Bernardo Silva so highly. Probably the closest thing to Iniesta ability in the PL. These are my favourite midfielders, and why I’d love Frenkie de Jong above any other if poss.
 
Rozay said:
By ‘now’, I didn’t mean in the last week. I mean since Chelsea became a team that was spoken of more positively than negatively again. Quite simply, the trajectory was different to an Oscar, who came in and scored a few goals and was heralded as a sensation immediately. Your examples were not really my point as such. I said ‘immediately’. I think it takes a little longer, is all. I’ve read many people asking ‘what does he do’ at first with in between players. And I wouldn’t call a lot of the players you names as in betweeners anyway, I think everyone gets a DM now, even in their various guises. A player in the team neither to defend nor attack, but more to just help the team play better, I think, is more slowly appreciated. If their team wins a lot, then of course, every contributor gets appreciated in such a context.

Kovacic is a certain type. Ruben Neves (or Alonso/Kimmich) types are rated. It took a while, but those players have been fashionable for a long time now in England. I’ve felt for a while that the back and front of a midfield was greatly appreciated in the PL, but not so much the middle. Just a user of the ball. I think this is the part that United need to go to another level. A comfortable ball player, but not necessarily a regista - a more busy one who can get it all over the pitch and be comfortable with it. I think that’s why I rate Bernardo Silva so highly. Probably the closest thing to Iniesta ability in the PL. These are my favourite midfielders, and why I’d love Frenkie de Jong above any other if poss.
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This thread was started in Feb 2021, coincidentally that was the time Chelsea was getting postive rating from everyone.

Also we have thread on Kovacic, praising him since Moyes was in charge and we have multiple threads. He was always rated when he was young player, since he is playing important role he is getting more recognition now. In between he was a bench warmer at Inter and Madrid, so he barely made any news.

You are saying Ruben Neves is rated, but he isn't rated by many too. There is always a split for players who aren't at elite level and are good to very good players. Doesn't mean they aren't rated. Maybe you read too many negative posts on Kovacic and positive posts on Ruben Neves.
 
Id like to thank Real Madrid for letting us have Kovacic for £40M, what a bargain.
My favourite player at Chelsea, beautiful footballer, he's been our best midfielder for 3 seasons now. Him Rudiger and Silva has been our best players this season.
Gary Neville on commentary talking about Diaz being the the best player on the pitch, not sure what game he was watching. He didn't even mention Kovacic who i thought was the best player on the pitch by a big distance.
 
jakko said:
Id like to thank Real Madrid for letting us have Kovacic for £40M, what a bargain.
My favourite player at Chelsea, beautiful footballer, he's been our best midfielder for 3 seasons now. Him Rudiger and Silva has been our best players this season.
Gary Neville on commentary talking about Diaz being the the best player on the pitch, not sure what game he was watching. He didn't even mention Kovacic who i thought was the best player on the pitch by a big distance.
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Couldn’t agree more. I think he is excellent.
 
Why has he not been playing for them more regularly? Is he that inconsistent or injury prone these days? Had a great game against our tired midfield tonight. Could be even a better fit for us now than FDJ who seems to play football at much slower pace to be honest and is not even half as good defensively.
 
He’s top class at ball carrying, probs the best in the world at it. Like prime Moussa Dembele at Spurs. No goal threat and his vision isn’t the best but he’s a great midfielder.
 
Poborsky's hair said:
Why has he not been playing for them more regularly? Is he that inconsistent or injury prone these days? Had a great game against our tired midfield tonight. Could be even a better fit for us now than FDJ who seems to play football at much slower pace to be honest and is not even half as good defensively.
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He’s being rotated. He’s injury prone and we have games every 3 days. Would have preferred to rest him in midweek and start him today but he was very impactful off the bench.

He generally loves the big games, always performs. It’s the low block, parked busses where his flaws standout more. In a midfield battle in a big game, there’s not many midfielders in the world I’d take over him.
 
Always thought he was underrated in the tackle
 
Brilliant player. We miss him alot when he doesn't play.
 
Weird he didn’t start, Chelsea best midfield player in my opinion
 
Cassidy said:
Weird he didn’t start, Chelsea best midfield player in my opinion
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Kovacic has been having some problems with his knee all season. At one point early in the season there was even talk he might need surgery if it gets any worse so the club are trying to be very careful with him as they're trying to get him back to full fitness without aggravating the injury.

He started against Villa last weekend and the plan was to rest him against Brentford and then start against you lot today but that pretty much changed when he had to be subbed on 15 minutes into the game at Brentford as Gallagher got sick. Going into today's game he'd played 140 mins in the last 6 days while still nursing an injury so him coming on in the first half as early as he did was probably already somewhat of a risk.

Good player but seems to be quite prone to injuries.
 
Won 4 UCL titles but only amassed 10 minutes in any of the finals. Nothing to this post, just find it interesting.
 
Man City want him to replace Gundogan. A good replacement.
 
We should have been all over him for our midfield.
 
He’ll go up another level at City
 
Can't believe that he and Mount were the options, and City got the better one with no fight :rolleyes:
 
How do city fit him in with rodri, de bruyne, silva, possibly Rice… their squad is unreal. No one’s catching them for a few years.
 
Great player but a downgrade on Gundo
 
Crimson King said:
Why do people keep saying this?! Do you really think he would have chosen us over City at this moment in time?

Give your head a wobble and come back to reality!
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We should have laid the groundwork for him when it became clear he wasn’t going to renew. Give your head a wobble.
 
City are really really good at getting their players without competition, wonder why that is?
 
DJ_21 said:
How do city fit him in with rodri, de bruyne, silva, possibly Rice… their squad is unreal. No one’s catching them for a few years.
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Silva's been looking to leave for a while as well.
 
DJ_21 said:
How do city fit him in with rodri, de bruyne, silva, possibly Rice… their squad is unreal. No one’s catching them for a few years.
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I imagine if Rice signs then Stones drops into the back 3.

Ederson
Stones Dias Akanji
Rice Rodri
Bernardo KdB Kovacic Grealish
Haaland​
 
The Corinthian said:
We haven’t/hadn’t been linked to him by any credible journo to my knowledge.
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Because he may have turned down the talks with us, simple as that.

Agents/players are usually sounded way before an offer is made, so I fail to see how this would’ve been reported. I’m not sure I even saw any other clubs than City being reportedly interested in him.

Also, we’ve seen that United is trying to keep the lid on its transfer business. Casemiro had been sounded during mid season before we made a move in him last minute, and nothing came out in the media before we made an offer.
Same for pretty much all our transfers last season.
 
Bwuk said:
I imagine if Rice signs then Stones drops into the back 3.

Ederson
Stones Dias Akanji
Rice Rodri
Bernardo KdB Kovacic Grealish
Haaland​
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Some team that. They’re gonna be even hard to score against with Rice and Rodri in there. 2 solid DM who cover a lot of ground and not only defend but they can chip in with goals aswell.
 
I'd have kept Kova. Really rate him and arguably the best ball carrier in the squad
 
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