Gambit
Desperately wants to be a Muppet
- Joined
- Sep 30, 2004
- Messages
- 31,034
yay, lets swap our style of play around again.
They were in 11th when he left in January 2014. Our fans would soon turn if he produced anything similar with our poor squad.From Google, terrible start to the season but managed to maximise the output of Balotelli, El Shawaary etc. And moved from his terrible start of the season (16th place) to ending at 3rd place.
My point about how he handles average players was more related to his time at a Serie C club and bringing them promotion straight away, and then his time at Cagliari where he brought them to their highest ever finish. That achievement at a bang average club made him win the award for best Serie A manager ahead of Jose Mourinho. This his all before all the good work he did with Juventus
Obviously he's far from perfect. He reached an abrupt end in his clubs for various reasons. But the man's got pedigree and is known to adapt well to players. He's an actual coach for starters. But also importantly he's one who will attract big names because of his achievements.
yay, lets swap our style of play around again.
I get that he’s an experienced coach and would probably get some kind of reaction from the players but that Italian style of play is not suited to the PL. generally speaking, the teams who score the most goals are the most successful. We dont need another Jose. We need a Pep/Shiny teeth type
You missed my point. When I say the Italian style of play I mean the type of stuff we are accustomed to from Italian teams, giving very little away, ensuring defensive is strong first.I'm no Allegri fan but this is not true.
Antonio Conte strolled to a PL title 2.5 years ago beating both Pep/Shiny teeth. Ancelottis' Chelsea toppled us in 09/10 scoring over 100 goals in PL in the process. Even Ranieri (in what was a freak season) managed to deliver a PL title with Leicester.
It's not wise to write off any particular 'style of play' or managers of particular nationality, a top manager can coach his style of play to success.
You missed my point. When I say the Italian style of play I mean the type of stuff we are accustomed to from Italian teams, giving very little away, ensuring defensive is strong first.
Ancellotis’ team scoring 100 goals underlines my point that that attacking football is king in England. He understood that. Ranieri did too, he tweaked very little and let a wave of confidence carry LFC to the title with the belief they could always score with the players they had upfront
yay, lets swap our style of play around again.
what style?yay, lets swap our style of play around again.
Is he available? ✓
Is he an improvement on Ole? ✓
Is he keen on the job? ✓
Is he more tactically nuanced than Ole? ✓
Is he a proven winner? ✓
Does he have a footballing identity? ✓
Does he have European level experience? ✓
Will he do better than 2 wins in 8 PL games? ✓
Or 4 wins in 17 PL games if we are counting the horrific form from last season? ✓
Then it'll be a start. We've become far too transfixed on the 'Manchester United way'. The sad fact is, there is no Manchester United way. Sir Alex was the Manchester United way. We need to get back to winning ways before we can start dreaming about the Manchester United way. Ole is not the man. He was never supposed to be the man. Get those rose-tinted spectacles off and let's get someone in who knows what he's doing. Then once we establish ourselves back to a top 4-6 solid club, we can think about getting some more exotic fancy names in.
Replace Ole with LVG and Allegri with Jose and you arrive at the same conclusion. And we know how that turned out. Allegri like Jose deploys a style of play that will immediately alienate half of the fan base. The only way fans will take to him is if he wins the PL title. And with the current squad and cut back on investment that we have seen over last 2 years, thats a pipe dream. Allegri is not the answer, definitely not with the current patience level of the fans.Is he available? ✓
Is he an improvement on Ole? ✓
Is he keen on the job? ✓
Is he more tactically nuanced than Ole? ✓
Is he a proven winner? ✓
Does he have a footballing identity? ✓
Does he have European level experience? ✓
Will he do better than 2 wins in 8 PL games? ✓
Or 4 wins in 17 PL games if we are counting the horrific form from last season? ✓
Then it'll be a start. We've become far too transfixed on the 'Manchester United way'. The sad fact is, there is no Manchester United way. Sir Alex was the Manchester United way. We need to get back to winning ways before we can start dreaming about the Manchester United way. Ole is not the man. He was never supposed to be the man. Get those rose-tinted spectacles off and let's get someone in who knows what he's doing. Then once we establish ourselves back to a top 4-6 solid club, we can think about getting some more exotic fancy names in.
Replace Ole with LVG and Allegri with Jose and you arrive at the same conclusion. And we know how that turned out. Allegri like Jose deploys a style of play that will immediately alienate half of the fan base. The only way fans will take to him is if he wins the PL title. And with the current squad and cut back on investment that we have seen over last 2 years, thats a pipe dream. Allegri is not the answer, definitely not with the current patience level of the fans.
Replace Ole with LVG and Allegri with Jose and you arrive at the same conclusion. And we know how that turned out. Allegri like Jose deploys a style of play that will immediately alienate half of the fan base. The only way fans will take to him is if he wins the PL title. And with the current squad and cut back on investment that we have seen over last 2 years, thats a pipe dream. Allegri is not the answer, definitely not with the current patience level of the fans.
You're right, there is no Manchester United way and that's the problem. We've been jumping from one type of manager to another with no sense of a plan, which has left us with a squad that isn't just sub-par but is also disjointed as a result of being formed by five completely different managers.
Ole certainly isn't the man and we certainly need someone who knows what he's doing but that doesn't mean we should hire anyone we think will be an improvement, because that's a damn long list.
There's absolutely no way of guaranteeing a manager will be a success but you can ensure that your appointments are similar enough in approach that getting rid of one doesn't require a complete rethink of the club's approach each and every time.
The approach should be straightfoward. 1) Decide what the club's principles are, 2) hire the best man available who fits those principles, 3) if he fails, sign someone else who fits those principles. Don't just bank on someone being a "winner", because if/when they stop winning there's nothing to fall back on and we have to start again from scratch.
Would once again be the wrong appointment imo. It's true we aren't going to compete realistically for a few years, so bring in a progressive manager, give him a few years to bring in the players he wants, improving the football year on year.
I get that he’s an experienced coach and would probably get some kind of reaction from the players but that Italian style of play is not suited to the PL. generally speaking, the teams who score the most goals are the most successful. We dont need another Jose. We need a Pep/Shiny teeth type
They were in 11th when he left in January 2014. Our fans would soon turn if he produced anything similar with our poor squad.
I don't believe there's any truth in these stories anyway.
Yes because its most relevant to us and the squad that Mourinho and Solskjaer have/are being judged on. There's nothing to suggest he'd do better than Mourinho.So from all of his great achievements, you choose to focus on that as though it has some higher weighting? Yeah, it didn't end great at Milan, but they were selling anything they can massively profit from. Thiago and Ibra were pushed out and he wasnt exactly blessed with mamouth funds to rebuild.
Sigh. Keep reading through the thread palWhat are you on about? Four different Italian coaches won the Premier League in the last 10 editions.
Yes because its most relevant to us and the squad that Mourinho and Solskjaer have/are being judged on. There's nothing to suggest he'd do better than Mourinho.
Why pick our his best results and assume he'll do the same here? He not going to repeat his Juventus results with our squad.Can you explain how his end at AC Milan is more relevant than his time at Cagliari or Juventus? Especially given he was under very different circumstances there versus here?
Why pick our his best results and assume he'll do the same here? He not going to repeat his Juventus results with our squad.
As soon as the top players left Milan results went downhill, that's far more relevant to the squad he'd be working with here.
Milan that he left had a much worse squad than we do now. It's not even close.Why pick our his best results and assume he'll do the same here? He not going to repeat his Juventus results with our squad.
As soon as the top players left Milan results went downhill, that's far more relevant to the squad he'd be working with here.
No. That's not been the problem. The main problem has been failure to move weak players on and out. bringing, then keeping players like Mata, Lingard, Matic, Fred, Rojo here. They can't win playing the United Way, the Mourinho Way, nor any way. They must leave in January.You're right, there is no Manchester United way and that's the problem. We've been jumping from one type of manager to another with no sense of a plan, which has left us with a squad that isn't just sub-par but is also disjointed as a result of being formed by five completely different managers.
Alright, can people stop saying this? They are not stopping playing for the manager, but the quality just isn't there. We have, at best, 2 world-class players, a bunch of overrated individuals, and a boatload of bang average players. Put them under a manager like Ole, and you get exactly what you'd expect. It's not like the players are betraying the manager everytime (you correctly said he didn't even hang them out dry, so why would they stop playing?), but that's just their level given the quality of the coaching and the team.Honestly we can't keep letting these players get the manager sacked. We'll never get back to winning ways pulling the trigger everytime these average players stop playing. Ole hasn't hung them out to dry and they still let him down every week.
We are already struggling to field a team because if injuries and you want to ship out five players in January?grantees they are crap but still,No. That's not been the problem. The main problem has been failure to move weak players on and out. bringing, then keeping players like Mata, Lingard, Matic, Fred, Rojo here. They can't win playing the United Way, the Mourinho Way, nor any way. They must leave in January.
The problem isn't so much buying weak players. It is keeping them. SAF brought lots of weak players in his final years; but most lasted no longer than a season here.
Sigh. Keep reading through the thread pal
I said “Italian style of play” NOT “Italian manager”, big difference
Marcello Lippi claims Max Allegri is “the best choice” for Manchester United and that the ex-Juventus boss is “ready” for the role.
Allegri has emerged as a sudden contender for the Bayern Munich vacancy, but Lippi – like fellow elder statesman Fabio Capello – believes he should wait for United.
“Allegri would be good everywhere and as a great admirer of the English club I would be happy to see him take over,” the 71-year-old told The Daily Mail.
“Manchester United is the history of English football. There have been dark years but the club is fantastic, from the backroom to the players, everyone can say what it means to play at Old Trafford.
“First of all, I think Solskjaer was an exceptional striker and a good coach. For Allegri, I consider him an exemplary professional who has the style of Juventus in his blood.
“My deep friendship with [Sir Alex] Ferguson allows me to say that he would be the best choice for United.
“Allegri studies English and is perfect for the British style. He is prepared and shrewd. He reads the game with great ease.
“He loves challenges and I respect him a lot, I think he is serious and prepared, I think he is a humble person. A great Italian who would do very well in England.
“I can tell you that he is ready for United.”
Capello and Lippi both saying Allegri should sign ManUtd/ManUtd should sign Allegri.