Mason Mount's Many Misfortunes (please don't make another waste of money post)

Not sure I can think of a signing that has been written off so early.

Not much point in debating this as I highly doubt these people will ever change their minds, no matter how good Mount is for us.

It is so weird putting so much stock into preseason. Results in preseason have never been important and tell nothing of the season ahead.
 
Not sure I can think of a signing that has been written off so early.

Not much point in debating this as I highly doubt these people will ever change their minds, no matter how good Mount is for us.

It is so weird putting so much stock into preseason. Results in preseason have never been important and tell nothing of the season ahead.
I think this is because a lot of people had some very clear "concerns" when we were in for Mount, and if anything the preseason confirmed those concerns are valid. I don't think it's the result that got people worried, it's the actual performances.
I also don't believe people there's too much criticism towards Mount, it's not like he's doing something else than we expected.
 
Really excited to watch him in a totally new light. As someone who was disrespectful and wrote him off, baffled by him for years, I can't wait to see what he does playing for us.
 
I think this is because a lot of people had some very clear "concerns" when we were in for Mount, and if anything the preseason confirmed those concerns are valid. I don't think it's the result that got people worried, it's the actual performances.
I also don't believe people there's too much criticism towards Mount, it's not like he's doing something else than we expected.
Preseason doesn’t confirm anything other than if people are fit enough. It’s training matches not competitive
 
Not sure I can think of a signing that has been written off so early.

Not much point in debating this as I highly doubt these people will ever change their minds, no matter how good Mount is for us.

It is so weird putting so much stock into preseason. Results in preseason have never been important and tell nothing of the season ahead.

I think this line of thought comes prior to pre-season, those of us following the England national side never saw his value in the XI and when watching the televised games for Chelsea he never seemed to stand out too much. I'm worried he'll be a bit of a passenger for us and that he's not quite a specialist in anything like many signings we've made in recent years.

Let's see though, real test is coming.
 
Got to judge him from today onwards and not use pre season as any kind of yardstick.
If he's playing 8, it is a new role for him and the use of him there opens ETH up to a lot of criticism if it doesn't work out (and vice versa for praise if it does work)
Hopefully he has a cracker and this thread will calm a little.
 
As a Chelsea supporter I can tell you that a fully fit, in form Mount should feast in a good team against small or poor opposition like Wolves tonight. These aren’t the kinds of matches you have to worry about Mase in.

It’s his output against the very biggest PL sides that should be the concern. You’re always going to get the effort and work rate in the big games but can he actually produce goals and assists against those top teams is the question.
 
I like to think that way, and if that's the case then Mount looks in good form so expect him to have a good start to the season.
Hopefully he gets himself a goal so he doesn’t have that hanging over him. Fitness wise and work ethics looks like he’s getting there
 
As a Chelsea supporter I can tell you that a fully fit, in form Mount should feast in a good team against small or poor opposition like Wolves tonight. These aren’t the kinds of matches you have to worry about Mase in.

It’s his output against the very biggest PL sides that should be the concern. You’re always going to get the effort and work rate in the big games but can he actually produce goals and assists against those top teams is the question.
I am a bit confused by that. At the end of the season, I'd imagine a player in his role should not only be judged by goal contributions. But it certainly seems to be the main thing people mention about Mount, that he brings goals and assists. That is fine but he can have a very good season even without getting a lot of goal contributions.
Last season Eriksen had 1G+8A so I'd be happy with this return from Mount if the team plays better football than last season because of him doing his job right.
At the same time he can get great numbers but the team is losing control and conceding goals because of top heavy setup, that would mean something went wrong.
 
One game or even 5 or 6 games won't be enough to see his true value and he brings to the side. ETH clearly thinks he can do something at our club, so I think it's only fair to wait and see what happens.
 
I am a bit confused by that. At the end of the season, I'd imagine a player in his role should not only be judged by goal contributions. But it certainly seems to be the main thing people mention about Mount, that he brings goals and assists. That is fine but he can have a very good season even without getting a lot of goal contributions.
Last season Eriksen had 1G+8A so I'd be happy with this return from Mount if the team plays better football than last season because of him doing his job right.
At the same time he can get great numbers but the team is losing control and conceding goals because of top heavy setup, that would mean something went wrong.
Goals and assists may not be the main thing he’s judged on for you guys since he’ll supposedly be playing deeper in midfield. But the big polarizing thing about him when he was here was that as a #10 he didn’t produce enough statistically against big teams.
 
Missed a very easy chance in all 3 games I've watch him in pre-season (not hating) so I'm expecting a goal from Mason tonight.

Hopefully he is on corners and FK's as well. Shaw and Bruno are fine but United have been poor on set pieces for forever, so it would be good to give them to Mount for a few months to see if he can improve that area.
 
I think this is because a lot of people had some very clear "concerns" when we were in for Mount, and if anything the preseason confirmed those concerns are valid. I don't think it's the result that got people worried, it's the actual performances.
I also don't believe people there's too much criticism towards Mount, it's not like he's doing something else than we expected.

He's always been a bit of an enigma to me. I've never really understood what he does, or what role he's best in. I think that's why he get's criticised.

That said, he's been a regular for England and Chelsea, Chelsea wanted to keep him, other top clubs were seemingly interested. People with much more knowledge than me seem to rate him so there you go. Ten Hag must have a plan for him for United to spend a significant chunk of budget on a player with a year left on his deal.

There are others I'd have preferred we went for, but he's here now so good luck to him.
 
He's always been a bit of an enigma to me. I've never really understood what he does, or what role he's best in. I think that's why he get's criticised.

That said, he's been a regular for England and Chelsea, Chelsea wanted to keep him, other top clubs were seemingly interested. People with much more knowledge than me seem to rate him so there you go. Ten Hag must have a plan for him for United to spend a significant chunk of budget on a player with a year left on his deal.

There are others I'd have preferred we went for, but he's here now so good luck to him.
Best thing to do to get to see what he does is watch personal highlight videos, it will tell you a lot.
 
I am a bit confused by that. At the end of the season, I'd imagine a player in his role should not only be judged by goal contributions. But it certainly seems to be the main thing people mention about Mount, that he brings goals and assists. That is fine but he can have a very good season even without getting a lot of goal contributions.
Last season Eriksen had 1G+8A so I'd be happy with this return from Mount if the team plays better football than last season because of him doing his job right.
At the same time he can get great numbers but the team is losing control and conceding goals because of top heavy setup, that would mean something went wrong.
This, the role he's supposedly been brought for is so niche and G+A don't really tell the full story. Guess it depends on ETH and who he has stepping up from defense and maybe that's why he wants Pavard over Todibo for that experience in tucking into midfield plus defending the channels of they are ever left as a three with Varane and Shaw when Martinez steps up.

If he can replicate what Eriksen brought on the ball and then add some physicality off the ball then he will be good for us. But I think he is going to be better than Eriksen off the ball but not really dominant on it. Remains to be seen if he can step up as playmaker/creator whilst providing us his competence in the press.
 
Goals and assists may not be the main thing he’s judged on for you guys since he’ll supposedly be playing deeper in midfield. But the big polarizing thing about him when he was here was that as a #10 he didn’t produce enough statistically against big teams.
Games against big teams, unless it's a whalloping of the nature we shall not speak about here, very rarely produce large amounts of goals and we do have a clear path to those in Bruno and Rashford. However contributions from him wouldnt go amiss but we are worried about the ability to play that connector role, exert control in midfield with composure and passing accuracy - something we lacked from the recently departed Fred.
 
I already made my mind up, he is bang average. He is not an unknown quantity. The new Lingard it seems, he will be young forever.

We should have a veto at club level outside the manager, and someone should have used it in this case to stop the manager from buying tomorrow's deadwood on high wages. Both parties should agree and someone should have raised concerns.

The lad is 24 and ranked 19th in the ballon d’or not too long ago…a comparison to Lingard is absolutely mad.
 
This, the role he's supposedly been brought for is so niche and G+A don't really tell the full story. Guess it depends on ETH and who he has stepping up from defense and maybe that's why he wants Pavard over Todibo for that experience in tucking into midfield plus defending the channels of they are ever left as a three with Varane and Shaw when Martinez steps up.

If he can replicate what Eriksen brought on the ball and then add some physicality off the ball then he will be good for us. But I think he is going to be better than Eriksen off the ball but not really dominant on it. Remains to be seen if he can step up as playmaker/creator whilst providing us his competence in the press.
I think the issue with him could be that he plays off others rather than be a creative force himself (Bruno), similar to Van De Beek and Sancho. He is not the player to carry the team but he is a team player.

Of course if he proves me wrong this season, I would be delighted.
 
Goals and assists may not be the main thing he’s judged on for you guys since he’ll supposedly be playing deeper in midfield. But the big polarizing thing about him when he was here was that as a #10 he didn’t produce enough statistically against big teams.
This, the role he's supposedly been brought for is so niche and G+A don't really tell the full story. Guess it depends on ETH and who he has stepping up from defense and maybe that's why he wants Pavard over Todibo for that experience in tucking into midfield plus defending the channels of they are ever left as a three with Varane and Shaw when Martinez steps up.

If he can replicate what Eriksen brought on the ball and then add some physicality off the ball then he will be good for us. But I think he is going to be better than Eriksen off the ball but not really dominant on it. Remains to be seen if he can step up as playmaker/creator whilst providing us his competence in the press.
This is the trap we should avoid. He isn't anything like Eriksen, totally different player even if isolated his on the ball skills are on similar level.

For me the question is how we set up against the big teams. We can play whatever formation against teams that will be happy to sit back and counter occasionally (first half vs Lens). But I would be very surprised if we start that offensive setup against say Tottenham. I would expect Mount to be deployed a but deeper. Otherwise, if we change setup completely then I'd question the point of signing him.

But yeah I'm very excited to see him play first competitive game as I rate him quite high on individual level.
 
This is the trap we should avoid. He isn't anything like Eriksen, totally different player even if isolated his on the ball skills are on similar level.

For me the question is how we set up against the big teams. We can play whatever formation against teams that will be happy to sit back and counter occasionally (first half vs Lens). But I would be very surprised if we start that offensive setup against say Tottenham. I would expect Mount to be deployed a but deeper. Otherwise, if we change setup completely then I'd question the point of signing him.

But yeah I'm very excited to see him play first competitive game as I rate him quite high on individual level.
I think one of Mount or Bruno is moving deeper permanently or at least will have the brief to drop deep and help out Casemiro off the ball and/or in the early build up. Bruno did have some good matches in a deeper role and has perfected his long pass so may it will be him, I think he has got the defensive side covered but has to learn positioning needed there.

However the belief is that us, Liverpool and Arsenal look like we intend to follow the City 3-4-3 or 3-2-2-3 where Martinez will step up and play the deeplying playmaker role alongside Casemiro to form a midfield box. With Antony, Bruno, Mount and Hoijlund being enthusiastic and capable pressers the hope is that we are always winning the ball high and creating chances from that. If the opposition beats the press then Shaw, Varane and AWB/Pavard's one on one prowess will be our hail Mary. How that works against a City, Liverpool or Arsenal will be scary to contemplate hence the need for an Onana or Amrabat to shore up things.
 
I think one of Mount or Bruno is moving deeper permanently or at least will have the brief to drop deep and help out Casemiro off the ball and/or in the early build up. Bruno did have some good matches in a deeper role and has perfected his long pass so may it will be him, I think he has got the defensive side covered but has to learn positioning needed there.

However the belief is that us, Liverpool and Arsenal look like we intend to follow the City 3-4-3 or 3-2-2-3 where Martinez will step up and play the deeplying playmaker role alongside Casemiro to form a midfield box. With Antony, Bruno, Mount and Hoijlund being enthusiastic and capable pressers the hope is that we are always winning the ball high and creating chances from that. If the opposition beats the press then Shaw, Varane and AWB/Pavard's one on one prowess will be our hail Mary. How that works against a City, Liverpool or Arsenal will be scary to contemplate hence the need for an Onana or Amrabat to shore up things.
That is a fine idea apart from moving Bruno deeper, what makes zero sense to me. He has been our best creator for years and now we want him to be a midfielder? I don't see it.
It all boils down to how good Mount is in deeper areas as an actual midfielder. I have not seen him do that for United yet so it's too early to judge. Can Bruno do it? Sure, he "can". Just as Pogba "could" play deeper. It was very clear though it's not his game.
 
That is a fine idea apart from moving Bruno deeper, what makes zero sense to me. He has been our best creator for years and now we want him to be a midfielder? I don't see it.
It all boils down to how good Mount is in deeper areas as an actual midfielder. I have not seen him do that for United yet so it's too early to judge. Can Bruno do it? Sure, he "can". Just as Pogba "could" play deeper. It was very clear though it's not his game.
I think us following a Guardiolasque 3-2-2-3 has more legs than the first part of that post. ETH has done it before at Ajax with Daley Blind, now he has Shaw who is arguably our most talented and technical player in the squad with the physical attributes to be very good in midfield ball recovery. If you think of it he is even more suited for the inverted role than Blind was. We then have Martinez whose passing is up there with the best so it most likely Mount will partner Bruno as twin hybrid 8/10 and one of the defenders will push up.

It will work against 75% of the league. Its against those three teams that I get to worry because they also have great one on one attackers which could expose our backline ruthlessly.
 
There are serious doubts about Mount the CM for me, but what isn't in doubt for a single second is his speed of thought, tactical understanding and ability to exploit situations. In fact, before any physical attributes, this is the primary for Mount - there are few who see and react to the happenings on a pitch faster than him in the entire league, let alone in our team.

He's a player managers will always find a use for because he'll find a way to adapt whilst still offering attributes everyone wants in a team, namely dogged determination, adroitness and the discipline to go again and again with full concentration and no lapses.

Before we factor in his physical attributes, we should look at his guile and focus - he remains unperturbed even when having a torrid game; he doesn't flap, wilt or fade; he's a guy you can bet on to to be in the running to take on a chance in the 95th minute where others are already switched off and/or exhausted; he's the guy still running when everyone else has stopped. His physical qualities aid this, but primarily it is intelligence and mental fortitude he has in bucketloads and what affords him the potential to be a resounding success here in terms of effectiveness and bang-for-buck.

He is the antithesis of a player like Van de Beek - by their very natures VdB is not equipped to do what Mount does - Donny wilts in pressurised environments, Mount thrives in them. Van de Beek might even be tidier, more technically able player in terms of passing and connecting play, but he has no nerves at this level of play and I'm not sure his mind can keep up with the pace things need to be done at for him to be effective.

On top of that is the character to fail or make mistakes and not let them affect your game. Mount's head won't drop and he'll be just as determined from one play to the next; we have very few players with that kind of constitution and I would expect Mount to make a name for himself popping up with decisive actions late in games where others are giving up. I'll never expect the same of VdB.

Mount is a perfunctory player; no thrills, very little flash, but extremely effective. In fact there's an irony to his understanding of play being fans will chide his finishing yet fail to recognise he read an entire play and worked himself into the position for the take on, which he is then being criticised for. He has a lot of subtlety interlaced with the grunt work, and if we can get it to click, there are very few in the league who can replicate his combination of physical and mental attributes.

I am not a particular fan of the player nor do I think he's the best use of funds, but there's no question at all that he can make a name for himself here if correctly utilised and become an essential cog in the machine to the point we have nobody else who can fill his shoes when he's absent. The question is whether we'll draw that out with the proposed system and positioning or whether it'll collapse and need amending. I have serious doubts about his raw quality as an #8, but I do think we and he will find a way to adapt and optimise if things aren't working initially and there aren't many players with the capacity to do that.
That's a great perspective, well put into words. His mental fortitude (heh) and his quick thinking are exactly the reasons why I'm a fan and why I do think he was the best use of our money, but I understand the reservation.
 
Every time I've watched him play for Chelsea, England and now 1 game for United, he's just been invisible, he doesn't seem to do anything apart from run around.
 
I'm willing to give him time but can't help but feel we should have gone all in for Caicedo instead of him.
 
I thought he was fine today. It was the system more than Mount individually that was causing issues.
 
Was he feck, our midfield was open and we looked half decent with Eriksen there instead. God knows why we have scouts or even pay a DoF, just let ETH keep buying hang average former payers of his.
when did Mount play for ETH?
 
Was he feck, our midfield was open and we looked half decent with Eriksen there instead. God knows why we have scouts or even pay a DoF, just let ETH keep buying hang average former payers of his.
People said this kind of thing about DVB because he was a new signing. Then the reality started to set in around mid season.