Felix can't play CM.
Mason Mount | Confirmed
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Felix can't play CM.
Possibly true.
But on the other hand a lot of us were expressing doubts about an Eriksen in his 30s on the back of a heart attack dropping back into a deep midfield position. In fairness, not all of the concerns have been unfounded as the season has progressed, but he showed more than I imagined in view of the fact he was principally an attacking midfielder for most of his career.
The point is sometimes players can change position successfully if the manager identifies the right blend of qualities within his particular team structure. We're probably not going for high possession with our current team with the likes of Rashford and Bruno as key players. He seems to want energy, pressing and greater efficiency more than recycling possession for possessions sake. You could argue Mount provides some of this. He also provides a ton of options for a manager tactically and positionally. He's probably a couple of players in one.
Neither
Felix is all sizzle, no steak. Don't think we should touch him.
Assuming Ten Hag shifts us to a 2-3-4-1 as the post below nicely demonstrates, I think Felix could thrive in this sort of system. He has all the tools to do so, probably equal in terms of versatility (albeit in a more forward sense), only really falling short to Mount on pressing but every other area he’s probably exceeds him.
What Mount is good at:
In term of profile, he fits Klopp‘s profile and ETH’s profile to play in the no 8.
- His off ball movement.
- His work rate, good at pressing and ball recoveries.
- He is good at making final third ball/passes (which reflect to his high xA from 2019-2022) (we don’t have enough players to make good amount of xA so he can improve us in this aspect).
- His passing accuracy from 2019-2022 is 85% overall (which reflect to his ability to retain possession)
- He’s a midfielder who also can score goals. Can score long shots.
- He‘s chelsea set piece taker, which chelsea had scored good amount of goals from set pieces in 2019-2022.
- He‘s versatile.
Tactically, he’s different to FDJ because FDJ is more a deep-playmaker that plays in double pivot.
Signing Mount means we might see a different system next season because ETH and the scouting team couldn’t find the right player that fits FDJ profile. Instead of playing with 4231 double pivot, ETH might play 433 with one no 6 and two no 8. We see this changing formation in his Ajax team when FDJ left.
The following below is when Ajax had the possession and start their build up play vs Dortmund in 2021/2022 season. You can see that Gravenberch is nowhere near in Ajax build up play phase to progress the ball. It‘s the keeper, two CB, a DM, and the two full backs the ones who got involved in this and if ETH uses this same system then we will rely on those 6 positions to retain possession or recycle the ball. Among these 6 players, Alvarez is the one being assigned to play more simple passes and doesn’t get involved on the ball often (see below stats), this suitable to Casemiro who is not a press resistance so I think we will see a different role in Casemiro next season in comparison to this season.
I think our build up and attacking transition will be something like this:
GK
Varane Martinez
Casemiro
RB —————— Shaw
Antony - Mount - Bruno - Rashford
ST
Bruno and Mount will play in Berghuis and Gravenberch role. Our full backs will cover the half space and sometime swap position with the wingers. So this is where I see Mount might be perfect to play in this set up and system because we will get to utilise his strength to do high press, scoring goals and assists.
I took pictures of these FBref end of last season so this is based on 21/22 season.
The 2-3-4-1 is when you're in possession and trying to breakdown the opposition, usually if they've fallen into a compact low block.
Out of possession you'd fall back into a regular 4-2-3-1/4-3-3, so Felix or Bruno would have to play CM as an 8 in the 3 or in the double pivot.
That would leave you very exposed against teams where you'd actually need to defend against for long periods.
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We didn’t pay £90m for him.
Name me any right sided left footed winger who we could have realistically bought that is clearly better than Antony and cheaper?
Antony has revolutionised our RW to the point where it’s now where most of our progressive carries come from. He’s absolutely vital at getting us up the pitch and retaining the ball.
I trust the process.
At this point we need players who can lift us from 3rd to title challenge. Mount is not that player.
Maybe so but if we aren't in for the likes of Caicedo then there is nothing we can do about it. I can't understand why we seemingly aren't looking to get Caicedo,Rabiot and cheap deep lying playmaker (surely De Jong isn't only one)
I wouldn’t judge on the first season, plenty of players have struggled in their first season and then flourished.
Modric was voted worst signing of the season in Spain after his move to Real. Pires at Arsenal, Bale was dropped for most of the season at Spurs. Evra was quoted as saying he wasn’t ready for the premiership at the end of his first season and he turned out OK. De Gea’s another and Drogba.
I’m not saying Antony will turn out like any of them, but fans often write off players far too early and the step up from the Dutch league to the English is huge.
It’s too early to judge whether Antony’s signing was a good one or not.
Unfortunately I do, but it all ended up wellWell said.
If anyone here remebers Evra and Vidic's first game...
Felix is a disaster in front of goal - in his last 5 seasons he has scored a total of 29 league goals - in 112 matches.
I don't write Antony off - I just don't see what he has that will make him a world-class player ! And for that amount - he should have that potential
Mount over Felix any day of the week even if they play in different positions.
The typical fan overlooks this and just see him missing a shot or not crossing with his right.
I bet he's right up there with tracking back too.
Would agree with that
Came to say this! He's bloody frustrating with his decision making and finushing, but his ball retention and carrying of the ball, coupled with his tracking back, is fantastic.
We're eager
That’s why you sign Rabiot on a free as well.
I hate people saying he “provides a ton of options” when he’s not actually good at any of them. A player that offers a level of being average in a bunch of positions isn’t a player I want to be targeting as a marquee signings. Rather you’d prefer that player as a bench piece instead that can slot in if needed.
Salah just isn’t a good comparison at all besides them playing the same position.
I agree. But Mahrez/Grealish is.
What about maddison, or does he not work hard enough?
If you say so.
Of course he's good in them. He's not elite in them but he's good.
Who says he's considered a "marquee" signing? I think that's coming from you. Likely ETH sees it as functional, improving his options. I doubt he ever considered the possibility of it being marquee, why would he care about such a tag.
Depends on the price IMO. I wouldn't fritter away too much on it either. The club probably just sense an opportunity.
I really like the Chelsea CMs (Kante, Jorginho, Kova, Mount). Kante's obviously done but we should've tried to sign Jorginho and I'll be happy if we sign either of Kova / Mount.
Wouldn't judge any of them by the season they've just had. It was borderline relegation form and way worse than our season under Ralf.
Wouldn't judge any of them by the season they've just had. It was borderline relegation form and way worse than our season under Ralf.
Maddison isn't really the kind of player Ten Hag wants in this system. He'd be someone who'd play a Bruno role instead.
How on earth is Grealish a good comparison, are you ok?
Yes. If I was not I might act weird. Maybe even condescending towards someone I disagreed with online. Would hate that.
The similarity between Antony and Grealish/Mahrez is their task. Not how they solve the task. I guess when someone say that you cant compare Antony to Salah they are refering to the task they are handed.
I agree that Grealish right now might come across as a different player. But Grealish at the same age had similar flaws in his game. Even Grealish at a later stage.
So, in summary, you could compare them due to the task their coach expect them to solve and due to the issues they both have/had at the age of 22/23.
He’s simply not a good fit unless we plan to shift Bruno. The midfield of him, Bruno, and Casemiro will be pressed and exposed the same way as our current one, you simply can’t have attacking mid paired with Bruno against any half decent team, especially away from home. This is a receipt for an underwhelming season again.
He’s not “good in them” though. Ask any Chelsea fan, they’ll tell you he was never very good as a true 10 much less as a CM. His shining season he was a hybrid forward essentially in a unique set up that essentially asked him to press hard high up and then arrive in the box when in possession. That’s not really a player we need unless ETH is about to shock everyone and play a 5ATB system with Kim and Frimpong ( very doubtful)
So we are spending what is largely a decent portion of our budget on a player that doesn’t have a true fit in our team, that we are going to shoehorn in and pray ETH isn’t making a mistake? Oh and on top of that we are going to be paying him big time wages after the player is coming off a crap season.
I’m all for “finding value in the market” with transfers, but this isn’t it
But my point, which the other poster responded to and you agreed with, had nothing to do with play style or task. If you had read it you might have understood why I’m asking if you’re ok.
My point was that a young player at the age of 22, finding himself in a new club, a new league, with a lot of pressure and expectation on his shoulders… might just need a season or two to start showing their potential and maybe 4-5 to reach his peak.
Salah went to Chelsea at 22 and struggled and then left. He has that commonality of getting a move to a big club in a new league at the same age as Antony. Grealish on the other hand was in this league since the start of his career. He played for Notts County in League One at age 18, then got games for Villa in the EPL, then got relegated and played a lot in the Championship when he was Antony’s age, and then back in the EPL. He left his boyhood club and got a big transfer at 25, not 22, in the same league and he still struggled in his first season.
So maybe cut Antony some slack and don’t be so quick to judge him a bad transfer yet. Because even a player of Salah’s calibre struggled at 22 in the EPL. That was my point.
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Reading the discussions, I kinda changed my mind to getting Mount. He was a very promising player a few seasons ago, followed by underwhelming season(s). EtH is probably confident on getting him back to his previous level and adding some, as he has proven it with Rashford, AWB, Dalot and many others.
I'm feeling somewhat similar. I'm not enamoured with the potential price and wages for the quality. I do see his qualities though.
I'll be interested to see what Mac Allister goes to Liverpool for. If it ends up being the 70m being quoted, 55m for Mount will seem like quite the bargain.
Yeah. 55m is about 55% of our Summer budget. Sadly. And he's not even a guaranteed starter, or a player that will improve our starting XI in his current form. It's quite hard to see Mount as bargain because MacAllister is a guaranteed starter to fill up their need, and definitely will improve Liverpool
But that's just my bias view on Mount current form.
Not the most exciting signing but I am not against it. He will provide much needed rotation with Bruno. We will be playing 50+ games next season and even if they both never play together, they will get 20-30 full 90mins worth of game time. Then there will be occasions when we are massively dominating the midfield and they can both play, or when ETH wants Bruno to play wide right Mount can play centrally or vice-versa. Deep squad with quality players is key to taking that next step along with filling our obvious problem areas.
Agreed he's not a guaranteed starter, but if we're looking to improve the squad and give us options for rotation without a big drop in quality, like with Fred and Scott, he will be a good signing.
My main gripe is the price of doing a deal will likely be prohibitive to other signings and not improve us enough to warrant the outlay.
I still can't see us signing him to be honest, based on what Chelsea will ask for and his wages. I reckon he'll renew when Poch gets in his ear.
They must be on heavy narcotics to come up with that Mount valuation...
Why wouldn't we be after someone like Kovacic instead? Feels much more our speed and what we'd need
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Yes, agreed on he'll be a very good addition on improving our squad. And has potential as starter also.
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