Mason Greenwood | Please be respectful and stay on topic | Factual updates only

[FortunaUtd]

What it really comes down to is nobody is prepared to say 'I dont know'. Everybody thinks their view must be the final and most authoritative. Either I think he did it and he must be punished, or I don't think he did and should be let off. Nobody will admit they don't know all the evidence and could be wrong, or accept that people who have seen all/more of the evidence think he's innocent.

We know enough.

Yep. In fact, this "court" doesn't even actually exist. It's about people putting there opinions out there and pressuring things like clubs and businesses into doing what they perceive as the right thing.

The case was dropped because the alleged victim withdrew her statement and some new material came to light, after Greenwood broke bail to meet up with her. So he wasn't summoned to court as the case was no longer strong enough and never had to stand trial. However there has been no explanation of the evidence in the public domain, so people are rightly opinionated on that. And others (like the poster you are responding to) who doesn't want those opinions shared.

I was not asking you

But I can drop the faux-naive Socratic dialogue act, since the poster I actually quoted will never get there even with the most well-intentioned discoursive ste-by-step assistance..

 

[Andersons Dietician]

So, you think the justice system is bang on, but then go on to talk about a huge mistake? You understand that cases don't get to court based on "public opinion" don't you? And that's the whole point of court, to take all evidence and make a decision right? Otherwise why is it there in the first place if it's so obvious who's guilty or not? You also surely understand mistakes in the system DO happen and quite often. Even in this case, a judge questioned the police on their shambolic handling of him breaking bail.

And you also "continue to speak out against all forms of injustice" and yet don't like others doing the same? You are all over the place. What makes you think your voice is more correct and cast iron than anyone else's? That arrogance is why you aren't coherent in what you state. Also, I didn't put words in your mouth, you lamented the time he lost due to this and called him a "poor boy". That "boy" has told you he is responsible, at least in part, for that. Yet it's still the public's fault. The public who can't fight against percieved injustice and yet you can.

Again, all over the place.




If we were down the pub, we'd likely be on the same page pretty quickly mate. We are in the same book, just a couple of pages apart.




Nope, there have been those saying United have handled it fine and can't understand why people are mad at them for it.




Not sure what this means, but if it helps I'm talking about United's access to the woman. It's all been through the mum and she didn't give them any new information, only refused to refute his version. Apparently anyway.

You’re incorrect there

 

[JPRouve]

You're right. It was my mistake. Let me correct my mistake. The women who falsely accused him of rape and sexual assault.

Who told you that a women falsely accused him of anything?

 

[NLunited]

I would agree if it was proven domestic abuse. It’s not. Assuming / inventing details of this is far creepier than giving a teenager the benefit of the doubt.

You are the one making up creepy stuff mate. I’m not making anything up.

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

He has lost out on a potential move to real Madrid and millions in future wages.

Benjamin Mendy did not lose out on a potential move to Real Madrid. What on earth are you talking about?

He averaged 1400 minutes a season at City before the accusations, he's a fecking shit permacrock.

 

[The Brown Bull]

If he is innocent I really hope to see him play again. I was super excited when I first saw him

What?

 

[gaffs]

I should really duck my head out of this thread, but I can't believe I refreshed it today and the first thing I read was someone still saying he 'made a mistake.'

If that's the kind of thing you consider to be a mistake, I've got real concerns about you as a person.

It is crazy. The attempted rape mistake. So easy to just accidently try and rape someone.

 

[Redlambs]

There have been numerous posters state the case was dropped due to the witness withdrawing.

Usually when arguing against those who claim "he was found not to have done it" and followed by an equally incorrect understanding of innocence.

I've not seen anyone saying it's "solely" down to that, but fair enough if you have.

I was not asking you

You clearly don't understand how forums work. If you want a private conversation, you have that option.

You’re incorrect there

Care to correct me so I learn?

 

[Halftrack]

You're right. It was my mistake. Let me correct my mistake. The women who falsely accused him of rape and sexual assault

So, let me get this straight: Despite having no evidence, you're more than happy to declare Mendy's accusers liars, and by extension criminals and call for them to be punished. Meanwhile, despite having evidence, you believe Greenwood to be innocent and are very against anyone saying otherwise because "justice" and "rule of law".

There's being full of shit, and then there's whatever you are.

 

[C'est Moi Cantona]

I just can't see who takes him off our hands, it's surely likely to be a pay out of his contract for us.

No doubt we'll be expected to make a donation of his behalf on top of that aswell, whilst still getting bashed by the media,

 

[Newtonius]

Rachel Riley still not happy after threatening to ‘abandon’ Utd if she didn’t get the outcome she wanted…

BBC - Rachel Riley now accuses Man Utd of gaslighting

This is precisely why you don't base your policy making on social media nonsense these corporations never learn, you see it all the time when they apologise it just makes it worse because those looking to be offended cannot be satisfied.

Better to not even try to play that game, hunker down and wait for the outrage machine to move on to its next target.

 

[red.knight]

Why would anything happen to them? He wasn't proven innocent, the verdict is not proof they lied.

"innocent" is not one of the possible verdicts that a jury may return. He was found "not guilty."

There were nine of them, remember? Do you believe they were all liars? How often do you see that many accusers, even in celebrity cases?

Tbh I don’t want to judge them. That’s the duty of the judge and the jury in the court of law.

 

[Tender Teacher]

The "justice system" also wasn't in that room, nor the ones when he broke bail to go see her.

And since we are talking about "personal conclusion as to a perpetrator's innocence" we are also talking about the opposite. And as such I'm still waiting for you to point out who in here said your "he was angry because he was sleepy" excuse. You never did quote anyone...

Nobody was in the room, hence - as a society - we (are supposed to) defer to the outcome of our justice system in such matters. After all, is the whole purpose of this system not to expertly assess all the available evidence to form the soundest possible judgement on behalf of our society?

Regarding this so-called "sleepy" excuse you can keep harking back to, you know full well this just a throwaway example of an example which neither supports nor undermines any of my actual points. Therefore, I'm unsure why you expect me to spend hours trudging back through 97 pages of posts, just so I can prove you wrong on such an inconsequential point.

 

[Leftback99]

I just can't see who takes him off our hands, it's surely likely to be a pay out of his contract for us.

No doubt we'll be expected to make a donation of his behalf on top of that aswell, whilst still getting bashed by the media,

Yeah seems like nobody wants him which is unsurprising.

 

[NotThatSoph]

You're right. It was my mistake. Let me correct my mistake. The women who falsely accused him of rape and sexual assault.


Those are your opinions that has no merit but why do people get offended when people disagree with them? The difference between poison and medicine is in the dose. Good night, Sir.

Doing a strikethrough isn't correcting your "mistake". Why are you saying that the women ruined his career, and why are you saying that he should take them to trial, unless you think they lied?

You don't believe in the things you claim to believe in. It's extremely obvious.

 

[Laurencio]

Yeah seems like nobody wants him which is unsurprising.

I don't think anyone in England would touch him after the media backlash we've seen. He'll have to go to a club in Italy, Turkey, Spain or something - probably a upper mid or mid-table club.

Italy seems the most likely to me.

 

[The Mitcher]

No one seems to understand that United are in a no-win situation.

 

[red.knight]

So, let me get this straight: Despite having no evidence, you're more than happy to declare Mendy's accusers liars, and by extension criminals and call for them to be punished. Meanwhile, despite having evidence, you believe Greenwood to be innocent and are very against anyone saying otherwise because "justice" and "rule of law".

Incase you didn't notice, I have already acknowledged and corrected my mistake. It should read as “The women who accused him of rape and sexual assault”

There's being full of shit, and then there's whatever you are.

Remember you don’t win an argument/debate by being angry and offensive. Also remember you are not innocent just by being a woman and you are not an abuser just by being a man.

 

[C'est Moi Cantona]

Yeah seems like nobody wants him which is unsurprising.

I'm sure I read there were 10 plus teams asking about him, but it just seems so unlilkely given the backlash that any half decent team sniffing around him would get, and so it's surely more hassle than it's worth given what he'll cost them right now.

He is going to cost us another £7 million, then he is going to need to take a heck of a step down and a big pay cut to find his next club imo.

 

[Spaghetti]

You are the one making up creepy stuff mate. I’m not making anything up.

I’ve not made anything creepy up, stop being manipulative. Nobody (on here) knows what happened, we are all making it up. And I’m not your “mate”.

 

[Gandalf]

Incase you didn't notice, I have already acknowledged and corrected my mistake. It should read as “The women who accused him of rape and sexual assault”

Remember you don’t win an argument/debate by being angry and offensive. Also remember you are not innocent just by being a woman and you are not an abuser just by being a man.

If you actually followed the details of that case you would know that whilst he has been found not guilty there was a great deal about those situations that was very unpleasant. That is not to say that the verdict was incorrect but the details of what these women experienced and what Mendy admitted to is not in dispute so your assertion that they lied or made false accusations is based on your own feelings and not the facts.

 

[Redlambs]

So, let me get this straight: Despite having no evidence, you're more than happy to declare Mendy's accusers liars, and by extension criminals and call for them to be punished. Meanwhile, despite having evidence, you believe Greenwood to be innocent and are very against anyone saying otherwise because "justice" and "rule of law".

There's being full of shit, and then there's whatever you are.

All whilst refusing to answer what should happen to the woman who accused Greenwood.

This guy is dishonest at best.

Nobody was in the room, hence - as a society - we (are supposed to) defer to the outcome of our justice system in such matters. After all, is the whole purpose of this system not to expertly assess all the available evidence to form the soundest possible judgement on behalf of our society?

So it's only the courts that decide punishments for discretions? I wonder why, say when you get sacked for misconduct, it doesn't go through a court. Hmmmm.

And this wasn't deferred to a court either, after the accused broke bail of course, so there are levels.

Regarding this so-called "sleepy" excuse you can keep harking back to, you know full well this just a throwaway example of an example which neither supports nor undermines any of my actual points. Therefore, I'm unsure why you expect me to spend hours trudging back through 97 pages of posts, just so I can prove you wrong on such an inconsequential point.

Because it was an embarrassingly awful excuse, and only you came up with it. That's the point, some people who are defending Greenwood are the ones coming up with all sorts of absolute ridiculous takes to explain that audio recording.

You can't then go on to act so reasonable after such a ridiculous idea. Unless, of course, you want to discuss anything with the guy who blamed Simon Cowell

"innocent" is not one of the possible verdicts that a jury may return. He was found "not guilty."

Tbh I don’t want to judge them. That’s the duty of the judge and the jury in the court of law.

But you DID judge them. You said they should be sued by him for accusing him.

So, what about the woman who accused Greenwood, same punishment correct?

 

[red.knight]

If you actually followed the details of that case you would know that whilst he has been found not guilty there was a great deal about those situations that was very unpleasant. That is not to say that the verdict was incorrect but the details of what these women experienced and what Mendy admitted to is not in dispute so your assertion that they lied or made false accusations is based on your own feelings and not the facts.

I admit I was wrong to say they “falsely” accused him of rape and I keenly followed that case and I know he aint saint. But, it is always heartwarming to see justice being served. Imagine how many common people are incarcerated or had their lives/reputation destroyed because they couldn't afford the best lawyers out there or there was just not enough investigation done in the first place, people today just want to see someone held accountable as that satiates their blood thirst, they forget without justice, blood thirst is just being a savage animal and not being a human being. I sincerely hope the Mendy case sets a precedent to investigate cases like these more thoroughly be it someone famous or an ordinary citizen - no matter their gender.

 

[frostbite]

I admit I was wrong to say they “falsely” accused him of rape and I keenly followed that case and I know he aint saint. But, it is always heartwarming to see justice being served. Imagine how many common people are incarcerated or had their lives/reputation destroyed because they couldn't afford the best lawyers out there or there was just not enough investigation done in the first place, people today just want to see someone held accountable as that satiates their blood thirst, they forget without justice, blood thirst is just being a savage animal and not being a human being. I sincerely hope the Mendy case sets a precedent to investigate cases like these more thoroughly be it someone famous or an ordinary citizen - no matter their gender.

He is not a saint, but the question is: Are you ready to cheer someone whom you heard saying the following?

“I don’t give a feck what you want … I’m going to feck you, you twat … I don’t care if you want to have sex with me … Push me again one more time and watch what happens to you.”

 

[Duafc]

He is not a saint, but the question is: Are you ready to cheer someone whom you heard saying the following?

“I don’t give a feck what you want … I’m going to feck you, you twat … I don’t care if you want to have sex with me … Push me again one more time and watch what happens to you.”

Honestly people are just so desensitized to this transcript now. They've been told he's innocent by the club and are all clamouring to let us know we don't know the full facts and can't possibly make a moral judgement.

Not once have I seen anyone put forward a rational explanation for that transcript that isn't just plain old sexual abuse and threats of physical violence.

Not one, I would be really really keen to hear them, like using your imagination and even getting wild with it, create a fictional scenario where there is context to those words that makes them okay.

And that completely doesn't even engage with the photos. Are they doctored? Did she hit herself? Where they hitting each other, what do you actually think about them?

 

[Redlambs]

Honestly people are just so desensitized to this transcript now. They've been told he's innocent by the club and are all clamouring to let us know we don't know the full facts and can't possibly make a moral judgement.

Not once have I seen anyone put forward a rational explanation for that transcript that isn't just plain old sexual abuse and threats of physical violence.

Not one, I would be really really keen to hear them, like using your imagination and even getting wild with it, create a fictional scenario where there is context to those words that makes them okay.

And that completely doesn't even engage with the photos. Are they doctored? Did she hit herself? Where they hitting each other, what do you actually think about them?

Well...there is the guy who said "Greenwood being pestered whilst sleepy and unaware of what he/she were actually saying"...Also, plenty are running with the roleplay excuse.

Not a single person has explained why she then made a video statement to the police about it though.

He is not a saint, but the question is: Are you ready to cheer someone whom you heard saying the following?

“I don’t give a feck what you want … I’m going to feck you, you twat … I don’t care if you want to have sex with me … Push me again one more time and watch what happens to you.”

Oi, leave our resident social justice warrior alone! You know the guy who's part of the mob who wants their way, who hates other mobs who apparently got their way.

 

[FortunaUtd]

You clearly don't understand how forums work. If you want a private conversation, you have that option.

You misunderstand me, but never mind. You have a heavy workload in this thread, I do not want to add to it.

 

[Halftrack]

I admit I was wrong to say they “falsely” accused him of rape and I keenly followed that case and I know he aint saint. But, it is always heartwarming to see justice being served. Imagine how many common people are incarcerated or had their lives/reputation destroyed because they couldn't afford the best lawyers out there or there was just not enough investigation done in the first place, people today just want to see someone held accountable as that satiates their blood thirst, they forget without justice, blood thirst is just being a savage animal and not being a human being. I sincerely hope the Mendy case sets a precedent to investigate cases like these more thoroughly be it someone famous or an ordinary citizen - no matter their gender.

Weird phrasing. Even if "justice was served", there was nothing heartwarming about the case. Even if Mendy isn't a rapist, he's still an incredibly skeevy person with appalling views on women.

As for the second bolded part: Do you think the problem is that these cases aren't investigated enough, and that it's the accused who primarily suffer because of it?

 

[frostbite]

Honestly people are just so desensitized to this transcript now. They've been told he's innocent by the club and are all clamouring to let us know we don't know the full facts and can't possibly make a moral judgement.

Not once have I seen anyone put forward a rational explanation for that transcript that isn't just plain old sexual abuse and threats of physical violence.

Not one, I would be really really keen to hear them, like using your imagination and even getting wild with it, create a fictional scenario where there is context to those words that makes them okay.

And that completely doesn't even engage with the photos. Are they doctored? Did she hit herself? Where they hitting each other, what do you actually think about them?

Still, I am curious if there are people who want to cheer this footballer, after hearing this recording.

 

[Duafc]

Well...there is the guy who said "Greenwood being pestered whilst sleepy and unaware of what he/she were actually saying"...Also, plenty are running with the roleplay excuse.

Not a single person has explained why she then made a video statement to the police about it though.

He's just woken up, but It was roleplay, but then she wanted his money and trapped him then went to the police, but then they got back together so she withdrew and despite the above they both want to be with one another, Mason being willing to literally give up his United career rather than set the record straight or embarrass his partner who has been publicly the face of all of this entire awful and horrific and embarrassing situation anyway.


Yep, all makes sense, move along.

 

[Redlambs]

You misunderstand me, but never mind. You have a heavy workload in this thread, I do not want to add to it.

I'm a dumbarse, completely missed the line you were taking whilst trying to deal. I swear I'm usually sharper!

Yeah, it's time I took a break trying to talk sense to these people, it's scrambling my brain and there's no outcome worth it.

Weird phrasing. Even if "justice was served", there was nothing heartwarming about the case. Even if Mendy isn't a rapist, he's still an incredibly skeevy person with appalling views on women.

As for the second bolded part: Do you think the problem is that these cases aren't investigated enough, and that it's the accused who primarily suffer because of it?

Yeah, never mind the incredibly more common true cases.

He's just woken up, but It was roleplay, but then she wanted his money and trapped him then went to the police, but then they got back together so she withdrew and despite the above they both want to be with one another, Mason being willing to literally give up his United career rather than set the record straight or embarrass his partner who has been publicly the face of all of this entire awful and horrific and embarrassing situation anyway.


Yep, all makes sense, move along.

You can always talk to that glasgow bloke who blamed Simon Cowell if you want a seriously out of the box excuse!

 

[saivet]

I know Crafton has become a hated figure for many but if you listen to the latest Athletic podcast, it's a balanced conversation with Crafton and someone from Women's Aid. They certainly believe mistakes were made but acknowledge it was a tricky process and in some sense United tried to go about things in the right way.

Worth a listen for those on any side of the fence.

 

[red.knight]

He is not a saint, but the question is: Are you ready to cheer someone whom you heard saying the following?

“I don’t give a feck what you want … I’m going to feck you, you twat … I don’t care if you want to have sex with me … Push me again one more time and watch what happens to you.”

The clubs official statement revealed Mason didn’t cause the offences. We don’t know in what context did he say these words in the audio tape. The audio can have an alternative explanation for it. This could very well be some BDSM roleplay that’s been cut to portray rape. There’s a reason BDSM is supposed to stay private and anyone in the BDSM community will tell you its easy to portray abuse if it’s taken out of context.

So a man is not prosecuted. The evidence against him is never made public. His employer says he has not committed an offence. Yet he is pilloried. People actually convicted of offences are treated better.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Mason being willing to literally give up his United career rather than set the record straight or embarrass his partner

Seems totally legit.

(I mean, yeah, he totally seems like the type of person who would do that.)

 

[NLunited]

I’ve not made anything creepy up, stop being manipulative. Nobody (on here) knows what happened, we are all making it up. And I’m not your “mate”.

You are certainly not my mate, that was sarcastic.

You should realize that making excuses for domestic abusive behaviour/sexual abusive behaviour make you look creepy.

There is no doubt that MG’s behaviour was abusive, although he may not be guilty of a crime. Unless you choose to look the other way and make up implausible excuses for him.

I would have been ok with whatever decision the club came up with, but don’t understand the people criticizing the decision to let him go.

It is the club’s decision and we should all move on. Instead of making shit up and going in circles.

 

[Duafc]

Seems totally legit.

(I mean, yeah, he totally seems like the type of person who would do that.)

Literally everything I know about him definitely suggest so yes, definitely.

The clubs official statement revealed Mason didn’t cause the offences. We don’t know in what context did he say these words in the audio tape. The audio can have an alternative explanation for it. This could very well be some BDSM roleplay that’s been cut to portray rape. There’s a reason BDSM is supposed to stay private and anyone in the BDSM community will tell you its easy to portray abuse if it’s taken out of context.

So a man is not prosecuted. The evidence against him is never made public. His employer says he has not committed an offence. Yet he is pilloried. People actually convicted of offences are treated better.

So you think it was BDSM possibly, okay!

1) why did she go to the police then? What was her motive?
2) why wouldn't he/she be okay with saying that if the alternative is everyone thinks you are sexually/physically abusive and you have to leave United?

Does either of those things tally really, even at all for you?

Like MG is more willing in your mind to be known as an abuser, miss 2 years of football, leave United and struggle to play in the PL and possibly even Saudi, than to suffer the embarrassment of telling everyone it was BDSM? He, his partner, his family, all on board with that decision?

 

[frostbite]

The clubs official statement revealed Mason didn’t cause the offences. We don’t know in what context did he say these words in the audio tape. The audio can have an alternative explanation for it. This could very well be some BDSM roleplay that’s been cut to portray rape. There’s a reason BDSM is supposed to stay private and anyone in the BDSM community will tell you its easy to portray abuse if it’s taken out of context.

So a man is not prosecuted. The evidence against him is never made public. His employer says he has not committed an offence. Yet he is pilloried. People actually convicted of offences are treated better.

You still did not answer a very simple question. Are you ready to cheer for Mason Greenwood? Yes or no? Are you ready to cheer for a footballer after hearing him say this, in his own voice?

“I don’t give a feck what you want … I’m going to feck you, you twat … I don’t care if you want to have sex with me … Push me again one more time and watch what happens to you.”

It is a very simple question. Do you answer Yes or do you answer No? Are you ready to cheer for this person?

 

[Redlambs]

"I'm not your mate!"

Such a drunken chav in a pub line

 

[Steve 007]

And if I was accused and was innocent, probably wouldn't be the first lass I propose to

Especially when you are a footballer and rich and can basically pick ladies normal people couldn’t dream of.

 

[NicolaSacco]

And I’m not your “mate”.

How embarrassing.