Mason Greenwood | Officially a Marseille player

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Name Changed said:
The statements just don't make sense to me. The club are basically saying they have evidence to show he was innocent, yet Greenwood himself has said he has made mistakes and intends to me a better person. Whatever way you look at it, the club have made a mess of this. They were bringing him back until they saw the backlash that was coming. They could have made the morally right decision and got rid of him ages ago. Instead they release feelers showing they intend to bring him back, only backtracking after seeing the reaction. It shows that money was the real reasoning behind the decision making.
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They don't specifically says Evidence, for all we know the "EVIDENCE" could have been Mason's own retelling of the story.

Manchester United is not the Authority, they can't force people to testity, they can't force anyone to provide evidence, anything that they found are probably some drawn up conclusions based on smokes and mirros
 
UnofficialDevil said:
The only explanation I can gather from that would be sex games?, role playing that's too embarrassing to let the public know about?.
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It seems far beyond unlikely that Greenwood would rather go through this 18 month life-ruining, reputation-damaging process of multiple arrests and investigations that still leaves a substantial swathe of the public believing he is sexually abusive, rather than just admit he had participated in consensual BDSM. I'm certain it would have occurred to him that being a rapist is widely considered more embarassing than being into kink.

I would think it a more likely explanation that while the full evidence/context may be enough to pursuade the club that Grenwood "did not commit the acts he was charged with" specifically in that instance, it would nonetheless confirm that he was generally violent and abusive towards his girlfriend. Meaning that at this point it's more beneficial to him to insist on his innocence without delving into details or the broader context of their relationship.
 
Lecland07 said:
- The recording was supposedly released by a hacker, so why would they only cut out a very small part of it? Did the rest of it bring another context to the situation? The release from Manchester United seems to indicate that it does.
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Nope, that's wrong.

Greenwood's statement makes it very difficult to go with the lame hacker line. I wrote a bit more detail on that in a post above.
 
Annihilate Now! said:
For what it's worth, it's also way better for Greenwood himself and his family that he plays football in a different country.



Legally there is absolutely no way they can do this.
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I'm pretty sure they can. They can condemn his actions without explicitly saying he's guilty. All this talk of him suing the club doesn't really make sense either. If he did that, he'd have to actually go to court to debate his actions, which would be suicidal as it'll bring details of the case to light.
 
Wibble said:
It is 100% a negotiated statement agreed between United and Greenwood's lawyers. Arnold isn't at risk as there is almost zero (or possibly zero) chance of the previous charges being reinstated. So Greenwood is obviously innocent in the eyes of criminal law already since the charges were dropped. The statement was a negotiated divorce statement. Happens all the time in corporate severance negotiations to avoid lengthy legal proceedings being instigated by either party.
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Bingo. The charges were dropped. The case will not be reopened. Arnold (and Utd) can talk as much guff as they want.
 
I am uneasy about the whole thing. We have phad him since he was 7, so was there no schooling or counselling for these kids? We are all guilty of judging without knowing the whole facts - I understand that the snippet released was only part of the whole tape which may have cast a new light on the thing. Whilst that snippet does portray him as particularly odious, why is the girl staying with him? He allegedly has previous (Iceland , along with the Man City kid - who led who?). As a club we have to be seen doing the right thing but I wonder how many other players at other clubs have been guilty of similar offences - I cannot believe that Mason's sins were a one off or unique in football. I am trying not to be an apologist for him , just trying to understand an incredibly difficult situation.
 
Redlambs said:
She gave a video statement to the police and that was part of the case taken to the CPS. After that this "hacking" shite came out, but we all know the amount of times we've heard that one when things get serious. It's one thing to hack an instagram or that (which would have been confirmed), but an entirely new thing to actually crack into someone's phone...at 2 in the morning...whilst she still had it. Also in Greenwood's statement, he directly says he mad "mistakes" that caused the release of those pictures which pretty much rules out a hack.

So in the early days at least, she definitely went with it. IIRC her father initially did too, then did a rather quick bizarre u-turn.
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Her father said her phone was hacked (or more accurately that she had said her phone was hacked) the same day that the posts were made. It may have been a panicked reaction but it was not something that only came out much later.
 
sullydnl said:
It seems far beyond unlikely that Greenwood would rather go through this 18 month life-ruining, reputation-damaging process of multiple arrests and investigations that still leaves a substantial swathe of the public believing he is sexually abusive, rather than just admit he had participated in consensual BDSM. I'm certain it would have occurred to him that being a rapist is widely considered more embarassing than being into kink.

I would think it a more likely explanation that while the full evidence/context may be enough to pursuade the club that Grenwood "did not commit the acts he was charged with" specifically in that instance, it would nonetheless confirm that he was generally violent and abusive towards his girlfriend.
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This is the bid I can't understand. If it isn't BDSM then what else could it be?
 
Doracle said:
Her father said her phone was hacked (or more accurately that she had said her phone was hacked) the same day that the posts were made. It may have been a panicked reaction but it was not something that only came out much later.
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I didn't say much later though, and it was after the police visited to speak to her.

In any case, as I've said, we can pretty much rule it out anyway. Not just with Greenwood's statement, but the fact that's the one thing that could be released if true.
 
Redlambs said:
She gave a video statement to the police and that was part of the case taken to the CPS. After that this "hacking" shite came out, but we all know the amount of times we've heard that one when things get serious. It's one thing to hack an instagram or that (which would have been confirmed), but an entirely new thing to actually crack into someone's phone...at 2 in the morning...whilst she still had it. Also in Greenwood's statement, he directly says he mad "mistakes" that caused the release of those pictures which pretty much rules out a hack.

So in the early days at least, she definitely went with it. IIRC her father initially did too, then did a rather quick bizarre u-turn.
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My guess (and what I'd think is also probable) is she went to sleep at her friend's house after an incident, and her friend took her phone and uploaded the pics and audio while she slept as she "had enough" and decided she had to post it on her behalf.

Mistakes from Greenwood would be getting in fights in a toxic relationship probably, leading to them having a falling out and this stuff being posted.

If I had to guess what really happened here, based on Uniteds statement, Greenwoods statement, the case, pictures, parent reactions, all the talk that happened from the start or even before this all came out for how they were as a couple, etc.... I'd guess it was a very toxic relationship from both, they'd probably hit each other on occasion when having heated arguments, it went too far, they had a fall out, she went to her friends to not be alone, her friend decided enough was enough and posted the proof on her social media. A bit later they get back together... Here's hoping they went to therapy and are moving forward happily and not continuing a toxic relationship.
 
bosnian_red said:
She likely just didn't want to be directly involved but let the father of her child/her boyfriend and her mother deal with the club directly. Which is fine from her perspective and entirely fair?
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yeah, but the boyfriend was the one initially charged with the offence, he can't be a reliable witness.
You can make a case on letting her mother testify on her behalf, but it's still not the same imo.
 
Redlambs said:
That leak where they called charities hostile did damage to be fair. It might be a good idea to at least give some of it so DV charities.

Although, thinking a little more, I wonder if they can anyway, as how would that in itself look?
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I think giving a portion would be a great idea. Not all though. Seems a bit of an over correction
 
Pearson said:
Exactly. His girlfriend wants to move on with him but the public moral police don't like that. What they are doing is equal to this: little girl, you are not mature enough and we want to protect you by destroying your man.

It is an absurd world.
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Some years ago, after a party, I walked in on an acquaintance raping a good friend of mine. There is no doubt that it was rape, because my friend was completely unresponsive and the rapist freaked out when he saw me. He has admitted what he did both to me and the victim, and he has apologized. The police never got involved, because my friend didn't want to. They still even hang out to this day, they've "moved on" I guess.

I've chosen to not associate with him anymore, and have told him what I'll do if he tries to speak to me. If he sees me somewhere, he leaves. I've also told some people what he did, some believe me and some don't.

Do you want to talk to me about the moral police? Tell me something about how I'm being absurd? Explain how I'm calling my friend immature? I'm listening.
 
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sullydnl said:
It seems far beyond unlikely that Greenwood would rather go through this 18 month life-ruining, reputation-damaging process of multiple arrests and investigations that still leaves a substantial swathe of the public believing he is sexually abusive, rather than just admit he had participated in consensual BDSM. I'm certain it would have occurred to him that being a rapist is widely considered more embarassing than being into kink.

I would think it a more likely explanation that while the full evidence/context may be enough to pursuade the club that Grenwood "did not commit the acts he was charged with" specifically in that instance, it would nonetheless confirm that he was generally violent and abusive towards his girlfriend. Meaning that at this point it's more beneficial to him to insist on his innocence without delving into details or the broader context of their relationship.
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UnofficialDevil said:
This is the bid I can't understand. If it isn't BDSM then what else could it be?
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Again though, that would mean she's guilty of an offense. I mean he may actually be doing the right thing and protecting her from that in the public eye, by taking most of the brunt whilst making it clear it wasn't attempted rape.

It's a possibility I suppose, but still a huge stretch considering that audio and his bail breaking stunts.
 
Doracle said:
Her father said her phone was hacked (or more accurately that she had said her phone was hacked) the same day that the posts were made. It may have been a panicked reaction but it was not something that only came out much later.
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A prosecution based on a phone hack if the alleged victim didn't confirm the content and the context seems incredibly unlikely.
 
bosnian_red said:
My guess (and what I'd think is also probable) is she went to sleep at her friend's house after an incident, and her friend took her phone and uploaded the pics and audio while she slept as she "had enough" and decided she had to post it on her behalf.

Mistakes from Greenwood would be getting in fights in a toxic relationship probably, leading to them having a falling out and this stuff being posted.

If I had to guess what really happened here, based on Uniteds statement, Greenwoods statement, the case, pictures, parent reactions, all the talk that happened from the start or even before this all came out for how they were as a couple, etc.... I'd guess it was a very toxic relationship from both, they'd probably hit each other on occasion when having heated arguments, it went too far, they had a fall out, she went to her friends to not be alone, her friend decided enough was enough and posted the proof on her social media. A bit later they get back together... Here's hoping they went to therapy and are moving forward happily and not continuing a toxic relationship.
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There's absolutely no evidence she has ever done anything to him though. There is evidence the other way. It's dangerously close to victim blaming.

I get what you are trying to say, but we need to be careful about the implications. I mean if it was a "hack" (or friend release), they could actually come out and say that part without getting anyone else involved publicly. So that means she released it deliberately herself (which is the likeliest explanation all round no matter what else is thought) and as such should be in big trouble herself.


But again, this is borderline victim blaming. As we saw with that certain other case, it's complex enough, but it's not as common as people seem to want to think that a partner hitting another is reciprocated.
 
reelworld said:
yeah, but the boyfriend was the one initially charged with the offence, he can't be a reliable witness.
You can make a case on letting her mother testify on her behalf, but it's still not the same imo.
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It's unfair to criticize the club in the investigation process on this point. They referred to the family and I'm sure she had the opportunity but decided to have her mom handle things. Which is entirely fair and not surprising given the circumstances?
 
crossy1686 said:
There is a large element of 'White Knighting' at play with this case, people even going as far to say she's still a prisoner and can't leave.
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Oh god I'd forgotten about this shit. 'White knighting' is the original 'virtue signalling'

What a stupid feckin phrase designed to undermine those you don't agree with.
 
Berbaclass said:
I think giving a portion would be a great idea. Not all though. Seems a bit of an over correction
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But maybe I'm being a bit too cynical here, but that would raise questions of why they are giving it to DV charities if no DV occured. Though I guess they could say something like "to highlight the cause". But I think people would still question it.

They should though. As someone who has grown up then as an adult suffered greatly from DV, I think those support charities are angels and need all the help they can get.
 
This 'role playing' defence is doing my head in the more I think about it.

Every time I commit any crime from now on, I'm just gonna say: "It wasn't a real crime! I was just pretending to be a criminal!"

Like feck.
 
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Wibble said:
A prosecution based on a phone hack if the alleged victim didn't confirm the content and the context seems incredibly unlikely.
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Agreed - I think it’s a very unlikely scenario (or, even if it was true, there must have seen some corroboration of the stuff released). I was just pointing out that it wasn’t something that had come out months later.
 
Sky1981 said:
Unless we hear in the same longer recording where both of the laughing : HAHA it's just a prank!!!!! Role Play!!!!

I think we can safely asume it is what it is.

Go ahead, try to imagine anything else that could make the recordings ok. I'd take a mental gymnastic to even think about possibilities.

We will never have full facts? I don't care, the facts out there are enough to brand him guilty in my eyes. If there are no recordings, people would probably give him more benefit of doubts, but it's up to him to prove otherwise with such a damning evidence
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Well, I'm glad you are not in charge of the judicial system.

Not sure you are getting the point, to be honest. In general, you should not really be too trusting of information spread on the internet as it can be doctored or tampered with e.g. a video or recording can easily be cut to put the onus on one instead of another. I'm not saying that is the case here, but it is still very easy to do. If you had a video of one person hitting another and the other retaliating, for instance, you could easily cut the recording to make it look like the second person started the fight. That is why the judicial system exists: to get the full facts of the case, not bits and pieces and thinking 'that'll do'.

I know people are dismissive, but there are other possibilities. It does not take a huge imagination to think of them, but there seems to be this idea that if you can think of other possibilities that you actually believe any of them. I don't have any solid belief in any situation as I do not have the full facts, so I remain sceptical of everything. The thing is that people do make up their minds quickly and are, quite often, wrong in other cases.

I am not holding the full facts, I was not there and I do not know the people involved. These are three massive points that makes the sensible option not to really believe any story in this situation, unless further proof became available.

In the end, they are back together, have had a child and are, supposedly getting married. I know people will say that 'abused victims get back together with their abuser', and, whilst that is true for some, you cannot assume that is the situation in every case. He has left Manchester United and is looking for a career. This case is over at this time and possibly forever.
 
Redlambs said:
There's absolutely no evidence she has ever done anything to him though. There is evidence the other way. It's dangerously close to victim blaming.

I get what you are trying to say, but we need to be careful about the implications. I mean if it was a "hack" (or friend release), they could actually come out and say that part without getting anyone else involved publicly. So that means she released it deliberately herself (which is the likeliest explanation all round no matter what else is thought) and as such should be in big trouble herself.


But again, this is borderline victim blaming. As we saw with that certain other case, it's complex enough, but it's not as common as people seem to want to think that a partner hitting another is reciprocated.
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Didn't they say at the start it was her friend who leaked it? Her dad right away playing it down? Absolutely not trying to put any blame on her, but just trying to take it all into account, from shit before these leaks where there were plenty of reports/talk they were a toxic relationship, to obviously Greenwood going over the top, but then giving some middle ground context that kind of ticks every box in terms of what happened, it fits the parents behavior, it fits them returning together fairly quickly, it fits why things were leaked, and it fits the case being dropped as well as the club and greenwoods statements. The club going pretty firmly in the "he's not guilty of what he was accused of" also to me points towards it wasn't an entirely one sided thing.

Whether they hit each other or that side was one sided, yeah that's a complete guess. My only feeling for that is based on the parents defending him which would be entirely illogical unless there was mutual toxic behavior, but yeah I agree dangerous to claim so I'll take it back (also didn't mean in the same way, should've clarified, but more that pushing style of fighting from one side when it gets heated, while the other obviously took to the... Other type of fighting).
 
Redlambs said:
She gave a video statement to the police and that was part of the case taken to the CPS. After that this "hacking" shite came out, but we all know the amount of times we've heard that one when things get serious. It's one thing to hack an instagram or that (which would have been confirmed), but an entirely new thing to actually crack into someone's phone...at 2 in the morning...whilst she still had it. Also in Greenwood's statement, he directly says he mad "mistakes" that caused the release of those pictures which pretty much rules out a hack.

So in the early days at least, she definitely went with it. IIRC her father initially did too, then did a rather quick bizarre u-turn.
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Oh right, I didn’t see that. I think her father defended Mason from the start, though.

Mason said he made mistakes, but hadn’t done what he was accused of. A bit vague. Who knows why.
 
Spaghetti said:
Oh right, I didn’t see that. I think her father defended Mason from the start, though.

Mason said he made mistakes, but hadn’t done what he was accused of. A bit vague. Who knows why.
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If you listen to the audio recording there seems to be some suggestion of infidelity on his part. That might be the mistake or one of them.
 
UnofficialDevil said:
Greenwood will get scrutinized and judged for the rest of his life if there is a different truth that never gets out, we don't know if there is, but that is what the club is saying. And what about their child when it grows up? Your father is this, your father is that. If he didn't do it, show us the evidence. Otherwise, every one can rightfully assume he did.
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He won’t. Society and the mob specifically have very short attention spans. There will be other issues that will get them to foam at the mouth and they’ll point their pitchforks elsewhere.
 
Redlambs said:
Dick head bingo is going well!
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Is there any left?

White knighting
Cancel culture
Innocent until proven guilty
False accusations
Permission to record private conversations
We need a striker
We will regret it when he scores for another team
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Berbaclass said:
If you listen to the audio recording there seems to be some suggestion of infidelity on his part. That might be the mistake or one of them.
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That parts obvious isn't it, given the national team stuff in Iceland with Foden?
 
Anybody wondering if he was indeed guilty etc, trying to suggest that potentially the relationship involves BDSM fetishes etc, please just use some logic.

If a woman falsely accused you of what has been suggested here, destroying your reputation and your career alongside, would you seriously go back to them and have a child with them? Of course not. Never in a million years.

Now would a victim of abuse go back to their abuser? Yes, it’s not uncommon.
 
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