Mason Greenwood | Officially a Marseille player

[Obi Wan]

Agreed. Enlightened doesn't exactly come to mind here.

To be fair, Pickle kind of does. Also I'm Buddhist so working on my Enlightenment in many more ways than just Star Wars.

Do you think this new evidence has anything to do with the withdrawal of the victim as a witness, which coincidentally occurred after Greenwood broke his bail conditions repeatedly to contact her?

I have no clue what this new evidence is because neither am I a god nor am i a lawyer.

Do you know what this new evidence is or how it came to fruition?

I don't know the full story and for that reason alone I'm more fine with Greenwood.

C Ronaldo arrived here after being acused of rape - but why was that okay? Because the fanbase had no evidence so then gave no judgement. The same thing happened with Antony, he is okay here until either there is evidence or the law interfere. It's all dependent on evidence and how much of it is there.

With Greenwood many have decided that there is is enough evidence so have made their mind up about over him even when there is reported new evidence that no one has a clue about.

Who knows, maybe this new evidence shows that Greenwood is worse than he was shown to be through recordings. maybe its the opposite. No one has a clue except the courts, the law and the god themselves and so far Greenwood has come out with it still playing football in spain hitting goalposts but not behind bars.

 

[sepulturite]

Agreed. Enlightened doesn't exactly come to mind here.

Yep, definitely more on the dark side of the argument I think...

 

[sepulturite]

Harsh on @Plant0x84

It's alright, no one would pay actual money for @Plant0x84

 

[Dion]

I have no clue what this new evidence is because neither am I a god nor am i a lawyer.

Do you know what this new evidence is or how it came to fruition?

I don't know the full story and for that reason alone I'm more fine with Greenwood.

C Ronaldo arrived here after being acused of rape - but why was that okay? Because the fanbase had no evidence so then gave no judgement. The same thing happened with Antony, he is okay here until either there is evidence or the law interfere. It's all dependent on evidence and how much of it is there.

With Greenwood many have decided that there is is enough evidence so have made their mind up about over him even when there is reported new evidence that no one has a clue about.

Who knows, maybe this new evidence shows that Greenwood is worse than he was shown to be through recordings. maybe its the opposite. No one has a clue except the courts, the law and the god themselves and so far Greenwood has come out with it still playing football in spain hitting goalposts but not behind bars.

But you do know what breaking bail to see the person you're being charged with sexually and physically assaulting means, yes? You understand why that no contact order was put in place and the dangers that order is put in place to avoid? You also understand what those dangers coming to pass could look like?

You cannot just wave that away.

It wasn't okay. This is also a fallacious argument.

 

[golden_blunder]

Personally for me, I dont really regard football or my club as a reflection of me, my personality or my ideologies.

I regard football ultimately as a sport and sport being an Entertainment. Manchester United is just the club I enjoy which provides me that Entertainment.

On a purely footballing level, I'd be lying to alot if i pretended that Greenwood doesn't provide me an excitement or an entertaintment.

Greenwood, Martial & Rashford arguably took us to the top 2 with a very below average midfield & some would argue a below average defense. That has changed now whilst we have added in youngsters like Garnacho, Mainoo, Hojlund, Amad and more around the corner. To me that's an attack that would scare the whole of the world whilst also putting players like Rashford on the bench if he doesn't perform or give enough of a work rate because we simply would have the quality as an attacking outlet in this club.

Cantona abused a complete randomer by kicking someone on the chest and is still regarded as one of the most important players of the club and is talked about highly like he never did anything wrong. It's literally there on youtube for anyone to see it but many people dont talk about Cantona in a bad way for his actions. Even players like C Ronaldo is regarded as complete legend of the sport, never mind the club whilst arguably accused of doing the same bad things that Greenwood's done probably at a time when Social Media wasnt as present as it is today to a complete randomer of the opposite sex, never mind their own partner.

To me, I'm in no position to judge a person because simply I am not a God and neither am I a lawyer to judge someone's actions and their outcomes. If he has been forgiven for his mistakes by his partner, his partners family and has also left the criminal case with a clean hand all except for a dirty recording - then i'm not ashamed to say that I want Greenwood back because of the enjoyment he would give me as a footballer.

Blah blah blah blah I don’t care because.. football

 

[golden_blunder]

No problem! Everyone's entitled to their own opinions -

I just honestly think that some people feel like they are better people of the higher caste for not wanting Greenwood 'the scum' back because it actually makes them feel like better people with the higher mindset or you know the more 'pure people' - the people who would kill all the thieves of the world so that only angels in this world are left type of mindset because i guess some people can only see the world through their eyes and not through the eyes of others.

Again, his partner has forgiven him, so has the partners family and arguably the law itself has 'forgiven him' - but ultimately some fans just cant do it. It's just too hard, because once someone turns dirty - they are just not good enough for the people with this ultimate 'purity'.

Anyway, let me know what you think about Cantona Kicking a total randomer and going to court for abusing this man.

Then look at how SAF speaks of this abuser in 1997 on youtube. Crazy stuff that he is talked so highly, even as a massiah on another interview by someone as high as SAF.

If SAF can look at an abuser so highly at this football club then I think maybe I can give another one a chance too if they have managed to come out clean through law and justice.

What’s Cantona got to do with the greenwood situation? Nothing. Zero. Not equivalent at all.

he also went through the justice system and took his punishment.

but all of that has got feck all to do with greenwood

 

[golden_blunder]

You have to be a god to know the full story because a God will not know half or even quarter of the story. He will know it all and judge that person and outcome depending on their actions, reason for their actions and also the thoughts of the victim. Otherwise your just a human being whose heard a quarter of the story and has made the result in your head.

This has been written on the news:

The case was dropped Feb 2023 after the victim dropped the allegation and there was new evidence.

Now I say I dont know this evidence because I am not a god or neither a lawyer - so i am not in the mindset to judge a persons actions or outcomes because I dont know the full story and I know only quarter of it.

For you, that quarter of evidence is perfectly fine because now he is completely dirty and not good enough for a pure person like you.

Anyway, I should stop posting here as i am a newbie and dont want to ruin my friendship over something like this.

Gar&Nach back again

 

[Wibble]

No problem! Everyone's entitled to their own opinions -

I just honestly think that some people feel like they are better people of the higher caste for not wanting Greenwood 'the scum' back because it actually makes them feel like better people with the higher mindset or you know the more 'pure people' - the people who would kill all the thieves of the world so that only angels in this world are left type of mindset because i guess some people can only see the world through their eyes and not through the eyes of others.

Again, his partner has forgiven him, so has the partners family and arguably the law itself has 'forgiven him' - but ultimately some fans just cant do it. It's just too hard, because once someone turns dirty - they are just not good enough for the people with this ultimate 'purity'.

Anyway, let me know what you think about Cantona Kicking a total randomer and going to court for abusing this man.

Then look at how SAF speaks of this abuser in 1997 on youtube. Crazy stuff that he is talked so highly, even as a massiah on another interview by someone as high as SAF.

If SAF can look at an abuser so highly at this football club then I think maybe I can give another one a chance too if they have managed to come out clean through law and justice.

Sorry? Cantona attacked a racist spectator and paid the penalty for that so we should ignore what Greenwood did? That is a ludicrous idea.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Harsh on @Plant0x84

 

[Raoul]

You have to be a god to know the full story because a God will not know half or even quarter of the story. He will know it all and judge that person and outcome depending on their actions, reason for their actions and also the thoughts of the victim. Otherwise your just a human being whose heard a quarter of the story and has made the result in your head.

This has been written on the news:

The case was dropped Feb 2023 after the victim dropped the allegation and there was new evidence.

Now I say I dont know this evidence because I am not a god or neither a lawyer - so i am not in the mindset to judge a persons actions or outcomes because I dont know the full story and I know only quarter of it.

For you, that quarter of evidence is perfectly fine because now he is completely dirty and not good enough for a pure person like you.

Anyway, I should stop posting here as i am a newbie and dont want to ruin my friendship over something like this.

There was no new evidence as far as I know.

 

[tombombadil]

Which other parts are those? The impregnation? Well the baby might not be his but... he seems to think it is.

Or the lack of admission of guilt? Well it's impossible to prove a negative, but if you take even a cursory glance you'll see it's true. As for the explanation of why his girlfriend was recording, again, have a look, he hasn't.

I meant the other crimes you mentioned. I'm trying my best not to take any sides here until I find more but nevermind. Seems I won't be getting any answers here.

Because it's so grotesque, you won't find out in this thread. But have a google.

Wokies. I just thought since this was the Mason Greenwood thread, I could ask here.

Not enough for you?

It's not about whether I think It's enough. It's me asking if there were any other crimes he had committed.

 

[Posh Red]

I meant the other crimes you mentioned. I'm trying my best not to take any sides here until I find more but nevermind. Seems I won't be getting any answers here.


Wokies. I just thought since this was the Mason Greenwood thread, I could ask here.


It's not about whether I think It's enough. It's me asking if there were any other crimes he had committed.

It’s tricky keeping up with what’s woke these days. Now it seems that ‘not wanting to listen to attempted rape audio’ is woke.

 

[Solius]

I meant the other crimes you mentioned. I'm trying my best not to take any sides here until I find more but nevermind. Seems I won't be getting any answers here.


Wokies. I just thought since this was the Mason Greenwood thread, I could ask here.


It's not about whether I think It's enough. It's me asking if there were any other crimes he had committed.

ffs state of it

 

[Solius]

It's always the 'I'm just asking questions' folk that suddenly let the mask slip and call everything they don't like woke.

 

[Lash]

I meant the other crimes you mentioned. I'm trying my best not to take any sides here until I find more but nevermind. Seems I won't be getting any answers here.


Wokies. I just thought since this was the Mason Greenwood thread, I could ask here.


It's not about whether I think It's enough. It's me asking if there were any other crimes he had committed.

No offence, but it's not our job to educate or inform you - that's on you. This thread is 350+ pages, you can't just come in and ask the same questions that have been asked by so many different posters and answered by both sides. Maybe do some research yourself and present a conclusion based on that? It's not a discussion if you expect the person you're talking to to tell you all the context.

 

[Raoul]

Wokies.

Easy there, Chewey.

 

[Dion]

I meant the other crimes you mentioned. I'm trying my best not to take any sides here until I find more but nevermind. Seems I won't be getting any answers here.

You keep saying this without specifically referencing which crimes you think I've left out. At this point it feels like bad faith. I can't give you answers when you're intentionally evasive about what you're referring to.

Wokies

Ah, you were just acting in bad faith. Good to know.

 

[Dion]

No offence, but it's not our job to educate or inform you - that's on you. This thread is 350+ pages, you can't just come in and ask the same questions that have been asked by so many different posters and answered by both sides. Maybe do some research yourself and present a conclusion based on that? It's not a discussion if you expect the person you're talking to to tell you all the context.

Not to mention I've already provided him with irrefutable evidence Greenwood broke his bail conditions and he simply ignored it.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

Not to mention I've already provided him with irrefutable evidence Greenwood broke his bail conditions and he simply ignored it.

I think he might have been referring to this:

...coerce her into withdrawing from the criminal case against him?

Which is unsubstantiated and a logical leap that would not pass any legal tests. That is to say it's an inference that may seem reasonable but is not in any way a proven fact.

 

[cafecillos]

It's always the 'I'm just asking questions' folk that suddenly let the mask slip and call everything they don't like woke.

The routine is getting less and less elaborated too. This time it was like, what, 3 or 4 posts before he started calling everyone "woke" as he actually wanted to do all along.

 

[Peter van der Gea]

fecking newbies in this thread. Maybe we should have threadmarks to the most informative posts on here, let them catch up with the answers to the "questions" before posting. It's an extremely long thread, so I'm not blaming them persay, it's just sad that many come here uninformed and then mess up their relationships on here.

To that note:

No problem! Everyone's entitled to their own opinions - Everyone has an opinion, just like everyone has an asshole, most of them are full of shit ssorry, just love that phrase!

I just honestly think that some people feel like they are better people of the higher caste for not wanting Greenwood 'the scum' back because it actually makes them feel like better people with the higher mindset or you know the more 'pure people' - the people who would kill all the thieves of the world so that only angels in this world are left type of mindset because i guess some people can only see the world through their eyes and not through the eyes of others.

Mate, I'm a survivor and I definitely don't feel pure, but the idea of supporting that man, after hearing what I heard is impossible

Again, his partner has forgiven him, so has the partners family and arguably the law itself has 'forgiven him' - but ultimately some fans just cant do it. It's just too hard, because once someone turns dirty - they are just not good enough for the people with this ultimate 'purity'.

No one can forgive someone unless 1. there's something to forgive and 2. they admit their guilt.

Anyway, let me know what you think about Cantona Kicking a total randomer and going to court for abusing this man.

Owned up to it, took his punishment, never did it again. Not to mention it was in response to xenophobic abuse

Then look at how SAF speaks of this abuser in 1997 on youtube. Crazy stuff that he is talked so highly, even as a massiah on another interview by someone as high as SAF.

If SAF can look at an abuser so highly at this football club then I think maybe I can give another one a chance too if they have managed to come out clean through law and justice.

Listen to the audio again and watch the highlights of that Crystal Palace match and determine if you can see if there is any equivalence

All you in here with your opinions. Once he smashes in a few screamers v city, dippers anyone really he will be welcomed back. It has been said many times if the gf has forgiven and her family and they've had kid right? Why we just accept Mason the RW back. We adored RVP and Ronaldo. We all love Mike Tyson.

I will never welcome that man back. Didn't want Ronaldo back, didn't know about RvP, hated Tyson.

To be fair, Pickle kind of does. Also I'm Buddhist so working on my Enlightenment in many more ways than just Star Wars.



I have no clue what this new evidence is because neither am I a god nor am i a lawyer.

Do you know what this new evidence is or how it came to fruition?

I don't know the full story and for that reason alone I'm more fine with Greenwood.

C Ronaldo arrived here after being acused of rape - but why was that okay? Because the fanbase had no evidence so then gave no judgement. The same thing happened with Antony, he is okay here until either there is evidence or the law interfere. It's all dependent on evidence and how much of it is there.

With Greenwood many have decided that there is is enough evidence so have made their mind up about over him even when there is reported new evidence that no one has a clue about.

Who knows, maybe this new evidence shows that Greenwood is worse than he was shown to be through recordings. maybe its the opposite. No one has a clue except the courts, the law and the god themselves and so far Greenwood has come out with it still playing football in spain hitting goalposts but not behind bars.

Honestly, have a read back through this thread, look for the posts with reactions. I dunno what kind of Buddhism you practice, but I'm not sure cheering on an alleged rapist is the best karma in the world

Blah blah blah blah I don’t care because.. football

Seems very enlightened

I meant the other crimes you mentioned. I'm trying my best not to take any sides here until I find more but nevermind. Seems I won't be getting any answers here.


Wokies. I just thought since this was the Mason Greenwood thread, I could ask here.


It's not about whether I think It's enough. It's me asking if there were any other crimes he had committed.

Was the audio not enough for you? Actually hearing him threaten to rape someone?

 

[Dion]

Which is unsubstantiated and a logical leap that would not pass any legal tests. That is to say it's an inference that may seem reasonable but is not in any way a proven fact.

I doubt it, since he said crimes.

And it wouldn't meet the standard of proof in a criminal case, but it would almost certainly meet the standard in a civil suit against him. He was charged for coercive and controlling behaviour and then broke bail conditions to contact the victim who promptly withdrew her statement. It's not just a reasonable inference, it's by far the most likely scenario.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

I doubt it, since he said crimes.

To be fair he was also charged with coercive and controlling behaviour.

 

[Dion]

To be fair he was also charged with coercive and controlling behaviour.

That was before he broke bail conditions, I also never mentioned that in my post. That's just evidence which makes the other thing you quoted more unarguable.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

And it wouldn't meet the standard of proof in a criminal case, but it would almost certainly meet the standard in a civil suit against him. He was charged for coercive and controlling behaviour and then broke bail conditions to contact the victim who promptly withdrew her statement. It's not just a reasonable inference, it's by far the most likely scenario.

It's currently not provable. Most likely scenario is just another way of saying reasonable inference. Since we are discussing criminal charges the reference to civil standards is a red herring.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

That was before he broke bail conditions, I also never mentioned that in my post. That's just evidence which makes the other thing you quoted more unarguable.

And yet with all this iron clad evidence (which I agree is extremely solid evidence) the Crown did not pursue the charges. So I'm perplexed as to why their case could not proceed. I don't think it's as simple as she would not cooperate because there are mechanisms that can be leveraged there.

So I take the CPS statement at face value and interpret 'new evidence that came to light' as something that introduced reasonable doubt to one or two of the charges. It would be good to know everything so we could come to a sound conclusion but unfortunately that's unlikely to happen.

 

[Dion]

And yet with all this iron clad evidence (which I agree is extremely solid evidence) the Crown did not pursue the charges. So I'm perplexed as to why their case could not proceed. I don't think it's as simple as she would not cooperate because there are mechanisms that can be leveraged there.

So I take the CPS statement at face value and interpret 'new evidence that came to light' as something that introduced reasonable doubt to one or two of the charges. It would be good to know everything so we could come to a sound conclusion but unfortunately that's unlikely to happen.

Prosecuting a rape case with a hostile witness is never going to work. The CPS don't determine guilt, just if they can put an adequate case forward, which they can't if the witness is coerced. That's why the no contact order was in place.

 

[Dion]

It's currently not provable. Most likely scenario is just another way of saying reasonable inference. Since we are discussing criminal charges the reference to civil standards is a red herring.

It's also one, not plural.

United also aren't a court, their level of proof is lower.

 

[Gasolin]

There was no new evidence as far as I know.

It was specifically mentioned by the police when they dropped the case, on top of the withdrawal, but lots of people infer that this is just a way to say that the victim withdrawal was the new evidence. I find that way of thinking strange, I think if the victim's withdrawal was the only element, they would not mention that new evidence part.

United also mentioned that so we don't know if they somehow had access to something new but we're assuming they did.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

Prosecuting a rape case with a hostile witness is never going to work. The CPS don't determine guilt, just if they can put an adequate case forward, which they can't if the witness is coerced. That's why the no contact order was in place.

I agree with that when there is a scant amount of evidence (i.e. he said, she said) but in this case there is audio of the crime itself occurring, data that can show where, when and what device it was recorded on, etc. The witness being hostile can be used to enhance that evidence, especially with the added coercive behaviour charge.

 

[Dion]

It was specifically mentioned by the police when they dropped the case, on top of the withdrawal, but lots of people infer that this is just a way to say that the victim withdrawal was the new evidence. I find that way of thinking strange, I think if the victim's withdrawal was the only element, they would not mention that new evidence part.

United also mentioned that so we don't know if they somehow had access to something new but we're assuming they did.

'new material that came to light' could by any submission by the coerced victim.

 

[Dion]

I agree with that when there is a scant amount of evidence (i.e. he said, she said) but in this case there is audio of the crime itself occurring, data that can show where, when and what device it was recorded on, etc. The witness being hostile can be used to enhance that evidence, especially with the added coercive behaviour charge.

It just doesn't happen, if the witness gets up and says it was all roleplay and the injuries were accidental the court case is over there and then. Reasonable doubt unless she's charged with lying under oath, and the CPS aren't going to charge a rape victim with that after the GMP failed to enforce bail. It's also considered if it's in the victims interests to continue without them as a witness.

Guidance:
If a rape specialist prosecutor has considered whether it is possible to proceed without the complainant, and decided that it is but that it would not be right to do so in the particular circumstances, the case will be discontinued. These cases will be rare and should be marked as discontinued in the public interest.

Greenwood case:
A decision has been made to discontinue prosecution in accordance with the Code for Crown Prosecutors.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

It just doesn't happen, if the witness gets up and says it was all roleplay and the injuries were accidental the court case is over there and then. Reasonable doubt unless she's charged with lying under oath, and the CPS aren't going to charge a rape victim with that after the GMP failed to enforce bail.

If so then I think that's a flaw in this instance and it deserves an inquest. The posting of the audio and photos on social media, the statement given to police all suggest there's a winnable case there even without a cooperative witness.

So, like I said it would be great if we could know the details behind the decision to not pursue the case. Probably not going to happen, but we'll see I guess.

 

[Dion]

If so then I think that's a flaw in this instance and it deserves an inquest. The posting of the audio and photos on social media, the statement given to police all suggest there's a winnable case there even without a cooperative witness.

So, like I said it would be great if we could know the details behind the decision to not pursue the case. Probably not going to happen, but we'll see I guess.

Guidance:
If a rape specialist prosecutor has considered whether it is possible to proceed without the complainant, and decided that it is but that it would not be right to do so in the particular circumstances, the case will be discontinued. These cases will be rare and should be marked as discontinued in the public interest.

Greenwood case:
A decision has been made to discontinue prosecution in accordance with the Code for Crown Prosecutors.

As I said, it's not a lack of evidence. When the case is discontinued it's because the CPS have decided they can but shouldn't prosecute the case. This is usually a victim wellbeing issue.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

As I said, it's not a lack of evidence. When the case is discontinued it's because the CPS have decided they can but shouldn't prosecute the case. This is usually a victim wellbeing issue.

It's hard to keep up when you are editing in new content to your posts! But thanks for the details.

 

[Dion]

It's hard to keep up when you are editing in new content to your posts! But thanks for the details.

Figured it must have gone live after you'd last refreshed the page so requoting it seemed the easiest.

 

[Don_Johan14]

This spake the Barcelona PR AI.

No, if you like, Barcelona makes that change. There is only one Mourtough and he is in Manchester.

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

If so then I think that's a flaw in this instance and it deserves an inquest. The posting of the audio and photos on social media, the statement given to police all suggest there's a winnable case there even without a cooperative witness.

So, like I said it would be great if we could know the details behind the decision to not pursue the case. Probably not going to happen, but we'll see I guess.

999 times out of a 1,000… key witness(es) refuse to play ball or testify means won’t go to court.

Defence just say things have changed and they have no ability to refute evidence, ask key witnesses questions, etc. Almost impossible to get a guilty verdict in that situation

 

[Camilo]

Oh look your back in this thread spouting crap again.....yay

I'm glad you remember! fecked if I can. Just as well you didn't make that comment in Scotland though, definitely a hate crime.

Anyways, I'm pretty sure my thought was perfectly reasonable. The guy was suggesting the club run the women's team like Putin runs Russian politics. Bat shit.

 

[Giggsy13]

Although it should not be a prerequisite to how the club ultimately handles the potential sale of Greenwood, having some success on the pitch and seeing young players like Garnacho, Mainoo and Hojlund flourish will at the very least quiet any arguments that we’re losing a highly rated academy player. This is how the sale will inevitably be viewed by some even though I understand it’s greater than football.