Mason Greenwood | Officially a Marseille player

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red.knight said:
The scenario you mentioned is logically not impossible but I find it hard to believe an institution like United would lie on this serious issue in order to protect the value of a very expensive asset in MG as you put it.
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And I fail to see that the glazers would not at least see if they could do anything to protect their money
 
Holocene said:
Been obvious for a while what his stance on the matter is.


Why hasn't there been any attempt to clear his name by United or Greenwood himself?
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I agree Greenwood and/or his partner has to give some sort of interview about the matter.
 
sepulturite said:
Oh I can claim moral superiority on this situation and I am. And I have no problem with people putting their view on this subject out there, even though I don't agree with it. But if you are putting that point of view on here, on a discussion forum, then you have to accept people are going to argue that point with you, which is all I'm doing. But some people in this thread don't seem to like that clearly.
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Just like you don't like posts that argue your point. Its an infinite loop, fuelled by your assumption of moral superiority and the same assumption in other peoples opinions.
 
moses said:
I think if he did nothing he'd be playing for us. No amount of social media pressure would dissuade the club from utilising an asset if there wasn't a reason.

If the lad is 100% innocent of any abuse of that woman and the club have allowed the narrative that he isnt innocent to persist by not clarifying the situation and exiling him then they should be ashamed of themselves.
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I really doubt that. Doesn't matter if charges were dropped or he has not been convicted of any offence, it would be a side show for United if he returned without further explanation by Greenwood himself or United. Why bother risking it. Interesting to see what INEOS will decide on his future.
 
red.knight said:
I really doubt that. Doesn't matter if charges were dropped or he has not been convicted of any offence, it would be a side show for United if he returned without further explanation by Greenwood himself or United. Why bother risking it. Interesting to see what INEOS will decide on his future.
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Not now. I mean if he was 100% innocent he'd still be here.
 
The guy was arguably 20-21 years old when this happened with arguably a big headed ego coming from a thick wallet.

Just as young people can turn dirty, they can also grow up and change to become better people whilst growing both mentally and physically.

I personally dislike the "this is my United & I dont want this type of player at my club" partly because:

a) It's not anyone's club, its equally arguably Greenwood's club than it is any fans club whether its anyone or me. He has been there since the age of 6.

b)It screams of the "fans are bigger than the players" thing that United fans do to most players as seen by theiir "support" for players like Bruno, Rashford on the pitch - never mind Greenwoods off the pitch behaviour.

c) He has no legal charges anymore. Check. He is getting along with both his partner and his/her family. Check. Why the whole one strike & your out thing? I'd love to see some of these guys histories if they have ever gotten in to a fight punched someone (ive had broken noses) or even did something illegal like taking drugs or drink driving where they got about it when they could have easily taken out someones life. I really doubt that all these people that don't want Greenwood back are angels with a god's judgemental 100% bypass.

d) Sure his future is biased depending on my appreciation for his footballing talent, but thats not something i really need to hide either. If he wasnt a good player then he is not useful to go through any hassle.

e) Not wanting Greenwood back does not make anyone a better person or a better human being. The world doesn't revolve around a simgle person's ideology.

f) Arguably a player that should cover alot of space in the squad aswell, in an era where out youth system is looking more valuable than our transfers.

g) Let him know that he cant make these same mistake again & arguably no other mistake anymore - put him in the light like a deer in front of a car light that makes him make have to deeal with his past actions and karma. Use him and his struggles as a way of showing that other young players should not make these mistakes - whilst players like Antony & Ronaldo just brushed it under their duvets.
 
The issue for me is beyond whether he did it or not, the dropping of the court case in essence didnt help anything and left the same questions unanswered.
For me is whether we then accept his and his partners explanation and absorb the 'pain' that will follow. The club will need to decide whether he is worth it or not.
Time is a significant healer but if he is staying, the club will have to offer something to appease the doubters.
I suspect we get a well orchestrated interview on MUTV.....
 
NZT-One said:
Just like you don't like posts that argue your point. Its an infinite loop, fuelled by your assumption of moral superiority and the same assumption in other peoples opinions.
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Ah I don't care mate, anyone arguing for a scrote like MG to come back to the club I love is a special kind of despicable in my eyes and nothing will change my view on that. So I'm happy with my moral superiority in that case.
 
moses said:
In my opinion, this is quite important. We have had a few posters in this thread posting from countries where women's rights are really poorly represented and rape convictions are very low. Some posters are posting from regions where marital rape is not a crime.

While that doesn't necessarily dictate what an individual thinks or says, I know from experience it does have an effect. Here in Ireland there is a huge generational divide as we only actually made marital rape illegal in 1990.

And I believe there is a correlation bewrween that and the attitude to rape in general.
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Good points made. Given that a sizable majority of global United fans/followers exist in Asia and Africa, it shouldn't be surprising to see wildly varying views on his issue.

For instance, Japan, only 9 months ago changed their rape laws to include consent (previously they required some form of physical force to be considered rape). They also only just raised their age of consent from 13 to 16. Moreover, marital rape is still legal in nations that comprise at least 50% of world population, including China, India, Nigeria, Bangladesh, and pretty much the entire Middle East, so views from United fans in those regions are likely to vary when it comes to the Greenwood case and beyond.
 
golden_blunder said:
And I fail to see that the glazers would not at least see if they could do anything to protect their money
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I agree nothing matters to Glazers, except their money, but I really doubt they’d go to this extent on this serious subject to protect MG’s value.
 
Raoul said:
Good points made. Given that a sizable majority of global United fans/followers exist in Asia and Africa, it shouldn't be surprising to see wildly varying views on his issue.

For instance, Japan, only 9 months ago changed their rape laws to include consent (previously they required some form of physical force to be considered rape). They also only just raised their age of consent from 13 to 16. Moreover, marital rape is still legal in nations that comprise at least 50% of world population, including China, India, Nigeria, Bangladesh, and pretty much the entire Middle East, so views from United fans in those regions are likely to vary when it comes to the Greenwood case and beyond.
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Aye, so many factors.
 
Wont be Glazers decision, will be Radcliffe and co one. I think given he is 100% FFP profit, 60m sale would buy his replacement without the baggage
 
Pickle85 said:
Where did I say I know the whole story? I'm just drawing conclusions based on the evidence available. Like most people do in most areas of their life on a daily basis.

You seem to be confusing forgiveness with not holding people accountable for their actions. It's not up to us as a fanbase to forgive him or otherwise - we don't have that power and not should we. It's up to the person/people that he hurt with his actions to forgive him. What society as a whole should do is try to ensure that people are held accountable for their actions. Side question: do you think all violent sexual offenders deserve 'forgiveness' and not to be punished? Do you draw any sort of line or should anyone be able to do anything with no consequences as long as the victims of their actions forgive them?

Yeah, it's shamefu, tbh. I think it's a combination of wanting a good player back for the club and their personal/cultural values being totally different to those who don't want greenwood back.
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If the girl forgave him and decided not to press charges, how are we who objectively knows less and has less information, not? Why are you certain he hasn’t sorted himself out? We are still talking about a young adult. More so you are entitled to your opinion as I am.
 
One thing for sure whatever the outcome, do not bow to public pressure. If he’s sold, we recoup the money on our asset and use it to reinvest in the squad. If he’s given a path back to the club, stick to it and do what’s necessary to ease past the portion of supporters who will be outraged in any event. Arnold and co were weak, as demonstrated by the silence and delay in dealing with the matter head on. It took a chancer like Crafton to draft a hit piece for them to act. INEOS will hopefully have the strength in leadership to deal with it either way.
 
Giggsy13 said:
One thing for sure whatever the outcome, do not bow to public pressure. If he’s sold, we recoup the money on our asset and use it to reinvest in the squad. If he’s given a path back to the club, stick to it and do what’s necessary to ease past the portion of supporters who will be outraged in any event.
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Nah, mostly it's the raping.
 
Giggsy13 said:
One thing for sure whatever the outcome, do not bow to public pressure. If he’s sold, we recoup the money on our asset and use it to reinvest in the squad. If he’s given a path back to the club, stick to it and do what’s necessary to ease past the portion of supporters who will be outraged in any event. Arnold and co were weak, as demonstrated by the silence and delay in dealing with the matter head on. It took a chancer like Crafton to draft a hit piece for them to act. INEOS will hopefully have the strength in leadership to deal with it either way.
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Whatever SJR decides, it will be final and those on the other side are going to have to live it and move on.
 
moses said:
In my opinion, this is quite important. We have had a few posters in this thread posting from countries where women's rights are really poorly represented and rape convictions are very low. Some posters are posting from regions where marital rape is not a crime.

While that doesn't necessarily dictate what an individual thinks or says, I know from experience it does have an effect. Here in Ireland there is a huge generational divide as we only actually made marital rape illegal in 1990.

And I believe there is a correlation bewrween that and the attitude to rape in general.
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Agreed. As you say, obviously not all people that grow up in a place where women are second class citizens (or at least aren't afforded the same rights as men) will replicate that hierarchy in their own lives/thinking, but it's surely more likely when it's normalized around you. It's a really tricky point that often goes unmade, though, because of the genuinely racist nonsense pumped out by certain pockets of the right that paints all members of certain communities as backwards, misogynist abusers (the fallout from the Rochdale child abuse scandal was particularly unpleasant for the south Asian community for instance). Nobody wants to be associated with that kind of nonsense (quite rightly, obviously!)
 
red.knight said:
If the girl forgave him and decided not to press charges, how are we who objectively knows less and has less information, not? Why are you certain he hasn’t sorted himself out? We are still talking about a young adult. More so you are entitled to your opinion as I am.
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It's quite simple.

Unless Greenwood can find a suitable mitigating circumstance for threatening his partner with rape, as he has demonstrably done, the club should be removing him.

His age, background, 'duty of care' and other excuses are not mitigation.

They're just excuses.

Giggsy13 said:
And honestly thank goodness for that, tired of this debate.
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The debate will rage on if United keep Greenwood. Only a removal will stop the rot. Greenwood is not absolved because SJR said so and the club will be marked because of it.

Furthermore, the 'move on' mantra is another disingenuous piece of PR guff. Tories use it all the time (especially with Partygate and Barnard Castle). A seriously dangerous phrase.
 
Gar&Nachos said:
I'd love to see some of these guys histories if they have ever gotten in to a fight punched someone (ive had broken noses) or even did something illegal like taking drugs or drink driving where they got about it when they could have easily taken out someones life. I really doubt that all these people that don't want Greenwood back are angels with a god's judgemental 100% bypass.
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You don't have to have lived a life without a flaw to be in a position to criticise the person behind the voice we heard on the recording.

I've been in a fight once yeah. Smoked a little weed. Never drove a car drunk. I don't think that rap sheet is enough to prevent me from a career at Manchester United. That's more to do with the fact I'm 37 and rubbish at football.
 
I still think he comes back here.

The players have been caught liking his Instagram posts, Garnacho, Shaw etc, and a lot of players he played with that have since left the club. I don’t buy that the players wouldn’t want him back.

It'll come down to how we can spin it PR wise. I see people mention an interview but I don’t think the club will do that. It just opens it further for discussion/debate.
 
red.knight said:
Wow. I never thought of it that way. But, the Glazers are vultures from the same nest, so who knows.
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'Vultures' is pretty harsh, that's a term carrying some heavy connotations. Whatever you think of their abilities as owners, shouldn't you have forgiven them a long time ago? You're coming of angry and full of rage, and very self-righteous.
 
red.knight said:
If the girl forgave him and decided not to press charges, how are we who objectively knows less and has less information, not? Why are you certain he hasn’t sorted himself out? We are still talking about a young adult. More so you are entitled to your opinion as I am.
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You cannot choose to press charges in the UK the CPS chooses not the victim they have no say in it, this isn't America
 
Bwuk said:
I still think he comes back here.

The players have been caught liking his Instagram posts, Garnacho, Shaw etc, and a lot of players he played with that have since left the club. I don’t buy that the players wouldn’t want him back.

It'll come down to how we can spin it PR wise. I see people mention an interview but I don’t think the club will do that. It just opens it further for discussion/debate.
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You can not spin this, as the jury is already out. In the public eye, he has done the unthinkable. He is a goner, the club can not say this publicly as he is still an asset, and it would weaken their position.

INEOS will not risk the positivity they've created around the club, with a Greenwood return and the bad PR that will follow. Its just too much baggage with the kid. Someone mentioned 60m pounds for him. If we get that, I'd be super happy. I do see him more going for something like 44-50m max.
 
golden_blunder said:
At least you’re showing your hand now
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There is nothing in that post that I haven't said on multiple occasions in this thread already - assumed my position was pretty clear by now.

I said many times that I never voted in the Yes/No poll as he's still 'on probation' for me.
Im still assessing whether I would want Greenwood back at the club in the summer depending on how he performs on and off the field.

I hope INEOS perform a similar fact based assessment.
 
Rood said:
There is nothing in that post that I haven't said on multiple occasions in this thread already - assumed my position was pretty clear by now.

I said many times that I never voted in the Yes/No poll as he's still 'on probation' for me.
Im still assessing whether I would want Greenwood back at the club in the summer depending on how he performs on and off the field.

I hope INEOS perform a similar fact based assessment.
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SJR has already laid out what he will be looking at and it boils down to whether he thinks greenwood is a good guy or not.
 
Vidooq said:
You can not spin this, as the jury is already out. In the public eye, he has done the unthinkable. He is a goner, the club can not say this publicly as he is still an asset, and it would weaken their position.

INEOS will not risk the positivity they've created around the club, with a Greenwood return and the bad PR that will follow. Its just too much baggage with the kid. Someone mentioned 60m pounds for him. If we get that, I'd be super happy. I do see him more going for something like 44-50m max.
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That's the only reason I think there's a chance he isn't back, but still lean towards him being here next year.

No chance we get anywhere near 45m-50m. If teams know we aren't going to play/register him, they are going to completely low ball us for him. We'll be lucky to get 20.
 
Bwuk said:
We'll be lucky to get 20.
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Twenty is enough.

Whilst we fight about whether or not someone who threatens his partner with rape should stay at the club, the scousers and city fight over trophies.

What an utter embarrassment we've become.
 
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