Mason Greenwood | Officially a Marseille player

[Rood]

Its hard to dismiss it as semantics when you do it at every opportunity.

It's less misleading that way alright. I still think the club statement that leaves a huge elephant in the room. Almost like they couldn't fully exonerate him.

And the family's acceptance is again an assumption. We have no idea what conversations were had or promises that were made.

I think it's a pretty safe assumption at this point, but like I said I hope INEOS will speak to the family again to understand their point of view and what they want to happen going forward.

But I totally agree that the club statement is not good, they took far too long to say anything and should have given a lot more details about the internal investigation (further details have been reported but many people have not seen them). No coincidence that Arnold personally put his name to it and is no longer in a job.

Still, unless you believe the club are just lying through their teeth, then some details are clear enough.

 

[SAFMUTD]

We're so morally above everyone else. Of course his now wife can forgive him, his father in law can as well, but we can't there's no way he damaged us way too much.

 

[sepulturite]

We're so morally above everyone else. Of course his now wife can forgive him, his father in law can as well, but we can't there's no way he damaged us way too much.

For the last time, they're not married! As for the rest of your post......

 

[SAFMUTD]

For the last time, they're not married! As for the rest of your post......

I stand corrected, they're not married just engaged and live and have a child together. Even more reason to not forgive him.

 

[sepulturite]

I stand corrected, they're not married just engaged and live and have a child together. Even more reason to not forgive him.

You think just because they are back together that everyone should just forget about what he did? Yet again you seem to be another poster who is dismissing the stats of abuse victims going back to their abusers several times over, it's very well documented. So them being back together and having a child means nothing. What he did, and the absolute scumbag that he clearly is, does mean something, especially to anyone with any decency.

 

[Ali Dia]

I think greenwood is a really good player. Potentially a top player but I worry that he’s another Rashford - Sancho- Lingard - Pogba - Martial type from a purely football perspective. We have enough players who have a nice shot. We need more grit and professionalism and selflessness on the pitch. Wonderful technique but I’m not sure he’d actually make any difference here at this point

 

[moses]

Still, unless you believe the club are just lying through their teeth, then some details are clear enough.

Again, no. I don't believe they are lying but I do suspect the vague language is them hedging their bets.

 

[Raoul]

I think greenwood is a really good player. Potentially a top player but I worry that he’s another Rashford - Sancho- Lingard - Pogba - Martial type from a purely football perspective. We have enough players who have a nice shot. We need more grit and professionalism and selflessness on the pitch. Wonderful technique but I’m not sure he’d actually make any difference here at this point

Interesting given that some of the ones you listed are or were very good. Rashford just knocked in 30 goals last year and Pogba is a WC winner who was good enough for us to break the bank and buy him a second time. Martial has of course been blighted by injuries. Agreed on Sancho and Lingard though.

 

[Duafc]

Factually found to be innocent of the crimes but we can’t say how, we’re not engaging with the content in the public domain whatsoever and on reflection we don’t want to keep him around, but definitely 1000% innocent in our book and that has nothing at all to do with footballing performance, pressure, monetary value etc.

Clear as crystal, alright.

 

[DRJosh]

It's our board who has pushed us to this circumstances due to their incompetence. If we are well stacked with quality in the attacking line, I'm sure this Greenwood thread wouldn't have this many pages. He can feck off for all I care.

BUT the reality is our forward lines are playing horribly right now and we desperately need a young forward like him. Injury to Højlund and our form dipped immediately.

Agreed but I’ve always felt we’ve been terrible at scouting talent post Sir Alex. It feels like we’ve got the worst scouting team in the league. Sir Alex papered over all of that.

 

[Rood]

Factually found to be innocent of the crimes but we can’t say how, we’re not engaging with the content in the public domain whatsoever and on reflection we don’t want to keep him around, but definitely 1000% innocent in our book and that has nothing at all to do with footballing performance, pressure, monetary value etc.

Clear as crystal, alright.

You can't say 'innocent' mate, @moses wont like it !

But seriously, we can all agree that the club made a mess of the statements and should have carried out an independent investigation.
Still that doesn't mean we should ignore the findings of the internal investigation, a reminder of some of the details from The Athletic...


United have taken their time, establishing an executive panel in the wake of Greenwood’s legal case being discontinued in February and going through all the evidence.

That included having access to the police work done following his initial arrest, such as seeing phone records and witness interviews, as well as making additional enquiries themselves. They have spoken to Greenwood and the complainant, as well as what the club believe are all the other relevant people. In United’s view, this has been a professional process.

“We’ve done a really detailed and thorough internal investigation and we’ve asked as many people as we can around what happened and try to understand it beyond the original investigation done by the police,” Collette Roche, United’s chief operating officer, told The Athletic last week.

The panel was led by United’s chief executive, Richard Arnold, assisted by Roche, lawyer Patrick Stewart, who is the club’s general counsel, communications chief Ellie Norman and football director John Murtough.

 

[Sgt.Dignam]

Factually found to be innocent of the crimes but we can’t say how, we’re not engaging with the content in the public domain whatsoever and on reflection we don’t want to keep him around, but definitely 1000% innocent in our book and that has nothing at all to do with footballing performance, pressure, monetary value etc.

Clear as crystal, alright.

He wasn't found to be 'factually innocent'.

 

[RuudTom83]

I think greenwood is a really good player. Potentially a top player but I worry that he’s another Rashford - Sancho- Lingard - Pogba - Martial type from a purely football perspective. We have enough players who have a nice shot. We need more grit and professionalism and selflessness on the pitch. Wonderful technique but I’m not sure he’d actually make any difference here at this point

Yeah I think I understand your point, in some ways Greenwood would fit into the “moments” category of player at United.

When what the team really lacks is leaders and top professionals.

 

[Ali Dia]

Yeah I think I understand your point, in some ways Greenwood would fit into the “moments” category of player at United.

When what the team really lacks is leaders and top professionals.

All of them are potentially world class on paper. if you were playing FM (maybe someone was?) the signings we’ve made we would be at least a fair bit more successful than we currently are. Antony as a punt makes sense.They were all punts putting in good work but why do we keep getting ones that look amazing and then they lose confidence or start acting daft? Saying that I do feel like Rasmus is the real deal. He’s a more of a win at all costs kind of player and i fecking love that.

Is it going to be like Ashworth managing the agents keeping them all up to speed? your boy is out of here next window if we get a bid we like and he’s happy to go, we like another client of yours so we will be in touch again soon. Cultivating relationships with the people who find better players and have further reach can only be a good thing.

Pay everyone who isn’t good enough off and start again as far as football and recruitment go. As for the rest of it I don’t really mind the idea of rich people being given salmonella to be honest.

 

[moses]

He wasn't found to be 'factually innocent'.

Not just me it seems @Rood

 

[simplyared]

All the more reason to get Neto in the summer window. He's better than Greenwood and we can offload Rashford for more money and everyone's conscience is clear.

 

[golden_blunder]

These are the facts according to official statements, up to you if you choose to believe them or not but if this statement isnt true then the family has every opportunity via the club, police, media etc to challenge it.

"The alleged victim's family participated in the process and were given the opportunity to review and correct our factual findings."

As I said, I hope INEOS will follow up with her and her family to ask them what they want to happen at this point.

The family viewpoint is irrelevant, they are going to say ever they were told to say by their son and daughter. In my opinion

 

[spiriticon]

People will have different opinions on this and it's Greenwood's fault that he got into trouble in the first place.

There's a price to pay at this level of fame and that's really all there is to it.

It's not a good look to bring him back and cause more controversy for the club because our club is already full of it. Maybe in 10 years time, it will all be forgotten. But no one wants to sign a 35 year old Greenwood.

 

[adexkola]

I would say this thread is one of the few places on the internet where you can have your opinion about this the particular player without much prejudice. I have argued plenty for the 'unpopular' side as you call it but I think have been treated fairly - If you're in favour of bringing the player back, make sensible arguments while already considering the (let's be honest) damning evidence that is currently out there (For example not these arbitrary arguments like 'she forgave him' etc.) + you need to be sensitive towards others' opinions about him even if they're against yours, especially as there could be people who've experienced SA on this forum. If you want to get into this topic however, I'd just recommend reading back quite a few pages, just to understand what areas you need to be sensitive about when discussing him.

Yeah same. You'll get blocked by a few flowers but that's what you get for being an amoral cnut who refuses to see beyond football on this issue

 

[Rood]

The family viewpoint is irrelevant, they are going to say ever they were told to say by their son and daughter. In my opinion

I doubt that is true, most reporting suggests that both families have been heavily involved in sorting out this mess from the start. Only normal seeing as they have been together since teenagers.

We know for sure that Mason's father is his agent and even living out in Spain with the couple. Andrew Greenwood met with John Murtough last month to discuss Mason's future, it is likely that when we hear reports about what Mason wants that it comes from his father.

And her mother was specifically mentioned as someone the club was speaking to regularly during the internal inquiry.

The picture to me is very much that the kid's have been told to take a back seat while the parents work out the best way forward. But yes this is just my opinion.

 

[Fallon d'Floor]

If he had never played for United before, nobody would even be talking about him. He's had a pretty average season in Spain. 8 goals and 5 assists in all competitions.

1 goal vs Celta Vigo (currently 17th)
1 goals vs Almeria (currently 18th)
1 goal vs Sevilla (currently 14th)
1 goal vs Granada (currently 19th)
1 goal vs Real Betis (currently 6th)
1 goal vs Las Palmas (currently 9th)
2 goals vs Tardienta (Spanish 4th tier club)

He's a good individual dribbler/ball carrier. But he play like it's him vs 11 at times. Too individualistic. He has a habit of shooting from everywhere. Must have listened to Ole.

He's weak defensively. He loses most of his duels. He has a 40% success rate in La Liga. If he's struggling with the physicality of La Liga full-backs, he will find The PL even harder if he ever returns. This was one of Sancho's biggest problems compared to The Bundesliga. He's now winning 57% of his duels at Dortmund compared to 36% at United this season.

 

[golden_blunder]

I doubt that is true, most reporting suggests that both families have been heavily involved in sorting out this mess from the start. Only normal seeing as they have been together since teenagers.

We know for sure that Mason's father is his agent and even living out in Spain with the couple. Andrew Greenwood met with John Murtough last month to discuss Mason's future, it is likely that when we hear reports about what Mason wants that it comes from his father.

And her mother was specifically mentioned as someone the club was speaking to regularly during the internal inquiry.

The picture to me is very much that the kid's have been told to take a back seat while the parents work out the best way forward. But yes this is just my opinion.

But it boils down to this; unless the parents were in the room whilst MG was trying to get jiggy then they only have the word of the couple. Hence what I meant by they’ve been told what to say because in reality that’s true.
of course they may have been in the room when it happened but then that opens up a whole new level of creepy WTF

 

[Lash]

If he had never played for United before, nobody would even be talking about him. He's had a pretty average season in Spain. 8 goals and 5 assists in all competitions.

1 goal vs Celta Vigo (currently 17th)
1 goals vs Almeria (currently 18th)
1 goal vs Sevilla (currently 14th)
1 goal vs Granada (currently 19th)
1 goal vs Real Betis (currently 6th)
1 goal vs Las Palmas (currently 9th)
2 goals vs Tardienta (Spanish 4th tier club)

He's a good individual dribbler/ball carrier. But he play like it's him vs 11 at times. Too individualistic. He has a habit of shooting from everywhere. Must have listened to Ole.

He's weak defensively. He loses most of his duels. He has a 40% success rate in La Liga. If he's struggling with the physicality of La Liga full-backs, he will find The PL even harder if he ever returns. This was one of Sancho's biggest problems compared to The Bundesliga. He's now winning 57% of his duels at Dortmund compared to 36% at United this season.

The duels and his defensive contribution are the issue for me. Even if those goals are against shitty opposition, you can see the quality of the strikes and technique, so it wouldn't be something I'd be worried he couldn't replicate in the prem again. No top team will have a player who doesn't put a shift in defensively, unless they're like Toney, who can hold the ball up and pin defenders back.

He'll still be a top player in my eyes, I just think he'll never be elite any more, so it's a good time to cash in.

 

[Rood]

But it boils down to this; unless the parents were in the room whilst MG was trying to get jiggy then they only have the word of the couple. Hence what I meant by they’ve been told what to say because in reality that’s true.
of course they may have been in the room when it happened but then that opens up a whole new level of creepy WTF

I think we can safely assume they werent there

But I was more talking about the family's role in everything that happened after that and more importantly going forward

The focus is always on whether Mason should come back to Manchester, but there is also his partner and child to consider

 

[golden_blunder]

I think we can safely assume they werent there

But I was more talking about the family's role in everything that happened after that and more importantly going forward

The focus is always on whether Mason should come back to Manchester, but there is also his partner and child to consider

I was talking more about their involvement in the investigation. I find anything they add a bit irrelevant because they obvious weren’t there when it allegedly happened

 

[Raoul]

If he had never played for United before, nobody would even be talking about him. He's had a pretty average season in Spain. 8 goals and 5 assists in all competitions.

1 goal vs Celta Vigo (currently 17th)
1 goals vs Almeria (currently 18th)
1 goal vs Sevilla (currently 14th)
1 goal vs Granada (currently 19th)
1 goal vs Real Betis (currently 6th)
1 goal vs Las Palmas (currently 9th)
2 goals vs Tardienta (Spanish 4th tier club)

He's a good individual dribbler/ball carrier. But he play like it's him vs 11 at times. Too individualistic. He has a habit of shooting from everywhere. Must have listened to Ole.

He's weak defensively. He loses most of his duels. He has a 40% success rate in La Liga. If he's struggling with the physicality of La Liga full-backs, he will find The PL even harder if he ever returns. This was one of Sancho's biggest problems compared to The Bundesliga. He's now winning 57% of his duels at Dortmund compared to 36% at United this season.

Except Greenwood has already demonstrated he can be very successful in England, despite having been a teenager and being less developed than now. In fact, he was knocking in 17 goals as a 17/18 year old at a time when Foden and Rashford was getting about 7 or 8. So we know he can be successful in England because he's already done it. His year in Spain is basically a rehab season to regain his high level match fitness, which has so far worked out quite favorably. Now that he has had the benefit of a year of match time, there's a pretty strong likelihood he will back to his pre-2022 levels next season.

 

[lex talionis]

If he had never played for United before, nobody would even be talking about him. He's had a pretty average season in Spain. 8 goals and 5 assists in all competitions.

1 goal vs Celta Vigo (currently 17th)
1 goals vs Almeria (currently 18th)
1 goal vs Sevilla (currently 14th)
1 goal vs Granada (currently 19th)
1 goal vs Real Betis (currently 6th)
1 goal vs Las Palmas (currently 9th)
2 goals vs Tardienta (Spanish 4th tier club)

He's a good individual dribbler/ball carrier. But he play like it's him vs 11 at times. Too individualistic. He has a habit of shooting from everywhere. Must have listened to Ole.

He's weak defensively. He loses most of his duels. He has a 40% success rate in La Liga. If he's struggling with the physicality of La Liga full-backs, he will find The PL even harder if he ever returns. This was one of Sancho's biggest problems compared to The Bundesliga. He's now winning 57% of his duels at Dortmund compared to 36% at United this season.

But context is critical. The mental journey he’s had to endure — yes of course of his own making — has been considerable and to be at this level, modest by elite standards no doubt, is remarkable. A top player is being reborn.

 

[Rightnr]

If he had never played for United before, nobody would even be talking about him. He's had a pretty average season in Spain. 8 goals and 5 assists in all competitions.

1 goal vs Celta Vigo (currently 17th)
1 goals vs Almeria (currently 18th)
1 goal vs Sevilla (currently 14th)
1 goal vs Granada (currently 19th)
1 goal vs Real Betis (currently 6th)
1 goal vs Las Palmas (currently 9th)
2 goals vs Tardienta (Spanish 4th tier club)

He's a good individual dribbler/ball carrier. But he play like it's him vs 11 at times. Too individualistic. He has a habit of shooting from everywhere. Must have listened to Ole.

He's weak defensively. He loses most of his duels. He has a 40% success rate in La Liga. If he's struggling with the physicality of La Liga full-backs, he will find The PL even harder if he ever returns. This was one of Sancho's biggest problems compared to The Bundesliga. He's now winning 57% of his duels at Dortmund compared to 36% at United this season.

All valid points and to me it's about the difference between being a great talent/prospect at a young age to then develop your game, mentality, physicality and attitude to be a leader of a team. In some ways, similar to what we've seen with Rashford who's completely failed that test.

Forgetting everything else, I tend to agree Greenwood doesn't seem to have that centre forward energy where the team sees him as the go-to man to bail them out. He's more of a right winger but he'll always need someone else next to him.

Even before Ronaldo, he seemed like someone who was focussed on getting the glory and those players are usually hated but because he's actually got the skill to pull it off often enough, fans were still excited to watch him. But we never got to see how that'd translate into his senior career.

 

[Lash]

Looks like Mayoral is out for the rest of the season for Getafe, which means he'll likely play up front.

 

[Wibble]

For every single person in this thread who continues to take sentences of mine

To be fair they probably need to while waiting for each of your posts to be printed out and bound in 7 volumes.

Perhaps an abstract would help?

 

[Pickle85]

That's a helluva callback!

 

[SonOfFergie]

You think just because they are back together that everyone should just forget about what he did? Yet again you seem to be another poster who is dismissing the stats of abuse victims going back to their abusers several times over, it's very well documented. So them being back together and having a child means nothing. What he did, and the absolute scumbag that he clearly is, does mean something, especially to anyone with any decency.

Nobody will forget what he did. He will never be a saint in anybody's eyes. But looking at it we are supporters of the club. He is getting paid by the club to play and score goals. If he does that to the satisfying level we as supporters should be satisfied. Not saying it is totally irrelevant what he does in his spare time but without any conviction for me there is not enough ground to not allow him back into the club if he is still performing to a good enough standard. Everything else is moralizing and romanticizing in a world that is so full of s*** so full of pretension and is as fake as it ever was.

 

[Rood]

To be fair they probably need to while waiting for each of your posts to be printed out and bound in 7 volumes.

Perhaps an abstract would help?

Waiting 5 months to reply to a banned poster seems odd to the say the least !

 

[golden_blunder]

Funny though!

 

[simmee]

Waiting 5 months to reply to a banned poster seems odd to the say the least !

Takes a while to come up with a joke like that.

 

[Wibble]

Waiting 5 months to reply to a banned poster seems odd to the say the least !

Odd that you are monitoring my posts.

I replied to a post on the first page that came up. No idea why as I'm sure I've read this thread since then. And I didn't notice that he had (thankfully) been banned. Still a good point well made.

 

[Wibble]

Takes a while to come up with a joke like that.

Most of my jokes are far older than that.

An example. I went to the shops to buy some camouflage trousers. But I couldn't find any.

 

[Tincanalley]

I would say this thread is one of the few places on the internet where you can have your opinion about this the particular player without much prejudice. I have argued plenty for the 'unpopular' side as you call it but I think have been treated fairly - If you're in favour of bringing the player back, make sensible arguments while already considering the (let's be honest) damning evidence that is currently out there (For example not these arbitrary arguments like 'she forgave him' etc.) + you need to be sensitive towards others' opinions about him even if they're against yours, especially as there could be people who've experienced SA on this forum. If you want to get into this topic however, I'd just recommend reading back quite a few pages, just to understand what areas you need to be sensitive about when discussing him.

Good post

 

[Rood]

Odd that you are monitoring my posts.

I replied to a post on the first page that came up. No idea why as I'm sure I've read this thread since then. And I didn't notice that he had (thankfully) been banned. Still a good point well made.

Hardly monitoring, I just clicked on the bit you quoted to see the full post and the magic time machine took me back to the heady days of October!

 

[Reapersoul20]

Hardly monitoring, I just clicked on the bit you quoted to see the full post and the magic time machine took me back to the heady days of October!

If you click on the post it says page not found though...dun dun dunnnnnn!

The only option is for both of ye to fight to the death with @rimaldo as referee