The abuse thing makes no sense. Players get heavily abused in stadiums all the time, and pretty bad too. Of any player cant deal with that, he will not succeed anyhow
Mason Greenwood | Officially a Marseille player
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Sorry, but no. The definition of rape is a pretty clear one and whether they're an intimate partner or not you shouldn't be having nonconsensual sex with them. And this really shouldn't be something that needs spelling out.
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This just really concerns me.
Sure that’s what I’ve said, but it’s not always as black or white as it appears to be.
This actually happens to my friend before. His girlfriend literally giving him unconsensual blow job while he was still asleep, but not a second he thought his girlfriend was raping him (in a bad way), but of course he did joke with me that his girlfriend likes to rape him out of nowhere, and he seems to enjoy it at the end. It’s perhaps something some lovers might sometimes do to spice things up I guess. It’s not always the case of either black or white when the parties involved are in ongoing sexual relationships. That’s why I thought it would be interesting to bring this up here.
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But there's audio of her saying 'no' so the situations aren't remotely comparable. It seems that some still believe that intimate partner rape is somehow less of a rape which is not the case.
Just popped in for some footballing updates and here I am reading comments about nonconsensual blowjobs.
I think if you're going to try to play Devil's Advocate for spousal rape being fine you
1) Need to be much more intellectually articulate and clear on the issue than you currently are.
2) Not do it in a thread about someone who was recorded committing what appears to be a violent sexual assault. This isn't the place to (metaphorically) jack of about your fantasies exploiting potential grey areas in sexual consent between partners.
I am not saying this applies to Greenwood case at all, as I’ve already pointed out that every cases are different, especially when forced violent might be involved there.
But I am just saying when intimate partner is involves it might be more difficult to draw the line, unless it’s a definite no to her.
With lack of context it’s just so hard to tell. But if he did use force/violence while raping her where she insists it’s a no during the whole incidence, and that act alone she find it unacceptable here after, it’s definitely would be an unforgivable act in my book.
Hypothetically speaking, we just don’t know whether it’s case of A) she only thinks the cause of their argument being unacceptable, or B) his unconsensual sex alone being unacceptable to her, or C) it’s rather a case of the cause of their argument being unacceptable which leads to her saying no to unconsensual sex initially, which might have been acceptable to her under normal circumstance (as they might have done this all the time in their relationship to spice things up), and without A) she doesn’t really care but would enjoy the whole thing instead.
If it’s B), I would say his act would be totally disgusting and unforgivable in my book. If it’s A) + C), now that’s something I’d say it’s complicated and difficult to draw the line.
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It's not really the type of topic to argue for arguments sake is it? FFS.
No means no. It seems some are confused
It's really not hard to draw the line at all. If one partner doesn't want to have sex in that moment and let's that be known and the other partner ignores them and goes ahead anyway, that's rape. Full stop. There is no difficulty drawing the line there at all.
Unless specifically talked about/agreed upon beforehand or some kind of blanket ground rules allowing this have been set, having sex with someone when they are asleep and can not consent - whether they are your partner or not - is weird as feck and absolutely should be considered as rape. Who does that?
Then keep it out of the thread. Ta.
You are actively blurring the lines, around consent. Well done.
Having sex with somebody while they are asleep without an understanding involving prior consent is rape. Legally and actually.
Just so you know.
What the fu...
Exactly. Not sure how this is so tricky to understand. Don't even know what to say to this:
Fecking hell. If you have an argument it makes it complicated to understand what's rape?
This thread is lunacy.
Mods, I have to ask, how long is this going to be allowed to continue? The culture and tone that this free for all is not just permitting but in certain cases, actively encouraging is deeply troubling and serves only to give voice to this women-hating minority for whom Mason Greenwood is the current and convenient lightning rod.
I rarely, if ever, want threads closed or posters silenced but surely people can see how utterly insidious and damaging to the Caf this will be if allowed to go unchecked? We’ve had people banned in recent months for being negative in threads in the general and we’re watching people trying to redefine and in many cases deny the entire concept of rape in the football forum. What the hell are we doing here?
I rarely, if ever, want threads closed or posters silenced but surely people can see how utterly insidious and damaging to the Caf this will be if allowed to go unchecked? We’ve had people banned in recent months for being negative in threads in the general and we’re watching people trying to redefine and in many cases deny the entire concept of rape in the football forum. What the hell are we doing here?
You should really be giving prior consent before activities like intercourse when one partner is sleeping. Otherwise you are running into very dodgy territory. Even if it's a long term partner.
Something like ' hey (name of girlfriend/wife) I think it would be exciting to be surprised by a BJ in the middle of the night; that would be hot" is valid.
If she starts giving you a blowjob in the middle of the night without ever talking about it beforehand then that is grounds for sexual assault. Extremely difficult to prove in court and the CPS would almost certainly throw it out. But it is by definition and probably by virtue assault.
I think what the poster is trying to say is that intimate partner violations like that are much more difficult to understand, define and prove in court. Mason however has a literal recording of him being threatening and coercive at a bare minimum.
Something like ' hey (name of girlfriend/wife) I think it would be exciting to be surprised by a BJ in the middle of the night; that would be hot" is valid.
If she starts giving you a blowjob in the middle of the night without ever talking about it beforehand then that is grounds for sexual assault. Extremely difficult to prove in court and the CPS would almost certainly throw it out. But it is by definition and probably by virtue assault.
I think what the poster is trying to say is that intimate partner violations like that are much more difficult to understand, define and prove in court. Mason however has a literal recording of him being threatening and coercive at a bare minimum.
Well said. This sheds such a negative light. Mason Greenwood does not and will never be allowed to play for United again. We should forget totally about his existence.
one time i had a headache and really didn’t feel like doing anything other than getting an early night. then my girlfriend came into the living room wearing a skimpy maid’s outfit and from that moment on my penis compelled me to have sex. and if @RedRonaldo really thinks about it, it’s exactly the same as the greenwood raping.
While I am active in this thread, it's only in an attempt to check the nonsense you are referring to. I think the optics of this thread for the caf is awful, and have said it from the start.
The majority of the chat in this thread is fine (although often quite boring and cyclical) and when it's not (like today) then the appropriate warnings are dished out.
Pretty sure this thread must have lead to the most deletions and bannings in RedCafe history (anyone keeping count?!) - I expect there will be another one today!
sorry, missed this, i was finishing up the latest lecture in my andrew tate’s hustler’s university. nowadays if i’m not in a lecture, then i’m in here, protecting greenwood from the snowflakes.
and completely agreed it’s a huge stain on the forum. and mankind.
Oh god, this is an awful read.
Burn this thread to the ground and bury the ashes in a mine.
Left you an open goal there
I know and in fairness, I fluffed it. It could have been better, so much so I deleted it in shame!
Agreed. But the alternative is banning all Greenwood discussions or warning/banning virtually all posters who want him back/ignore what he has done.
I'm fine with the first option. Does he appear on the club site? As far as I am concerned he is not a United player
Everything that needs saying or can be said has been, many times over, it serves no purpose anymore and doesn't need to exist imo, it's not a good look.
If anyone actually cares about how he is doing on loan they can Google that information.
I'm overdue for a ban probably, I could use the hours I spend here more wisely. Also, would like to make the forum a more pleasant experience for those who can't stand to see football only conversations concerning Greenwood. Just asking that my tagline reflects this altruistic sacrifice, when the decision is made
Yeah, I've been relatively active in here but any feasible discussion has been had. Right now it's just a platform for people acting in bad faith to minimise what it looks very likely he did. We don't need to encourage or enable those people.
I hope this comment isn't a serious suggestion.
I find it rather concerning that posts like this which are the opposite of "Please keep it respectful" and provide no value aside from insulting people with derogatory language get likes from staff such as yourself.
And people like myself who have only been respectful and engaging in sensible discussion are at risk of a ban because we have an opinion different from your own.
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My god you truly are an awful poster. If your opinions on Ronaldo weren't bad enough, now your in here spouting this shite.
I wasn't proposing it, just stating the options.
We've had that conversation multiple times. Whatever happened, his partner has taken a decision to be with him and the authorities couldn't charge him, not just because she retracted, but because according to them, new evidence came to light.
I am all for thinking a lot of things about him but we can't force a grown up adult (his partner) to have her own choices/decisions overwritten because we don't like it. That's not something we do for anything else in our society. Accordingly, if she thinks he deserves a second chance and is happy with him, then we should let them be. That includes playing for United. It has nothing to do with the charges because again, the authorities didn't charge him at the end.
It's just the logical step for people discussing topics deemed not up for discussion on a private message board.
If there are posters in the thread that are breaking forum rules then they should be rightfully banned. Whilst I think the discussions have been going around in circles that happens in every single thread, its not unique to this one.
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