Really good post and dead logical well done.
Mason Greenwood | Officially a Marseille player
- Thread starter keithsingleton
- Start date
- Status
Really good post and dead logical well done.
Nah, the don't-know-all-the-facts position is quite frankly intellectually dishonest, at best. I don't need to go through those people's posting history to know that I'd find posts by them making all kinds of assumptions with little to no knowledge of any of the "facts". They just simply want to make us think this is the subject where that can't be done, because they want Greenwood back at United and they need him not to be as terrible a person as he seems to be. But the thing is, and it's been posted quite literally dozens of times now, this not a court of law, this is a fecking internet forum, and we are not judges, we are fecking internet forum users and as such we can't violate his presumption of innocence, which is (and again, this has been clarified dozens of times before, by me and many other posters) exclusively a jurisdictional principle/guarantee. What I think about Greenwood has absolutely 0 legal consequences for him, and that's why I can think whatever the hell I want, as I'm not subjected to the rigorous burden of proof that is required for a criminal conviction. Many users insist that that's the level of certainty required to legitimately not want Greenwood back at United, which is patently and demonstrably incorrect and, as I said, intellectually dishonest at best. I have more respect for the few posters who don't hide behind that fluff and openly admit that they want him back regardless as he's good at football. Everything else is either wilful ignorance, DV/DA apologism, or worse, but I want to believe very few posters, if any, are in that third category.
Really interesting that the people of Twitter might like greenwood when the reputation of that site is so positive and full of top quality individuals.
I see your point, but for better or worse social media is the new public square where people communicate the most. If you're looking for opinions (good or bad), that's usually where they are.
If we're looking into the volume/demographic of people for/against Greenwood returning I can honestly say I don't know anyone (outside the Internet) that wants him back. This roughly includes approx 10 season ticket holders, 20 staff at Utd, 20 current colleagues that work in the Old Trafford area and about another 30 friends/family that live in South Manchester and most are lifelong United fans. Obviously I haven't polled them, this just stems from conversations over the last year, i can't guarantee I've spoke to everyone on the subject so these are just approx numbers and some might privately want him back but don't admit it. I'm not trying to say one person's opinion is worth more than anothers, I do however feel that based the people I'm surrounded by that are one way or another close to the club they don't want him back.
Last edited:
I thought loads of people use it tbh and it’s probably fairly representative? The parts of Twitter / X that I frequent seems to include largely normal people but maybe I’m not looking in the same places
I was just showing you your own logic. But thank you.
How does watching a sporting event equate to wanting an alleged domestic abuser to represent the club you support and care deeply about in your mind?
My wife who occasionally watches United games with me knew about this story when it broke out and was appalled at first (I was obviously appalled when I heard the news too).
But as someone who is quite into social media (More than me for sure), she's always said everything on social media is not real (i.e. with things like deep faked videos, unrealistic beauty standards, fake advice, image doctoring, even AI influencers these days) / lacks context most of the time (e.g. clipping a segment out of a Ricky Gervais/Dave Chapelle show and posting it to cause controversy - Not saying this is the exact situation here, but you get the idea). She's generally a skeptic who doesn't like to believe in stories until there is definitive proof, which is why she followed the Heard/Depp case with some interest (Even gave me weekly updates). She also thinks the whole 'believe women' agenda that is taking over the world these days is a little bit OTT, given that women are completely capable of being as bad as men - It's not that she's skeptical of HR, just that the agenda shouldn't weigh in on the facts.
On this particular case: Given the outcomes of both internal and external investigations, she thinks it should be up-to whoever that has complete information on the case, to decide. However, she also thinks that there is usually no smoke without fire - Meaning Greenwood isn't some kind of saint, but to call him a rapist/sexual abuser/threatener is a bit much without context/actual witness testimony (Given HR had withdrawn any initial statements she made + alluded to the fact that her phone was hacked) for the leaked snippets of evidence that are out there. I would say that's a similar opinion to mine despite our different genders. I should caveat all this by stating though that she's also more socially/politically conservative leaning than the average person (not because of her upbringing, but by her own choice/values) and isn't quick to trust people at all, so others may see this differently.
Also it's not that I don't give a shit - I think most of us who think there's a viable case for him to make a return (Based on United's own investigation btw, not because the couple got back together or anything along those lines) don't think he's a nice guy, and definitely don't condone DV and sexual abuse. Which, I think is the problem on this forum (And others) because anyone who says the club should consider bringing him back suddenly becomes a rape sympathiser/rapist enabler, which are not true.
Excellent post.
What if bringing Greenwood back to United solves more problems than it causes for the club?
He’s doing well and is probably their best player /2nd best . If he wasn’t doing well you wouldn’t have pages of pages of posters arguing with each other .
It’s even worse, he himself has benefitted from the oil money from the Middle East countries with awful human rights record regarding the property in his area which he gleefully accepted.
Apologies if I’m wrong but aren’t you the one who has profited from the Middle Eastern money regarding the property or something in your area? And if so, does that make you human rights abusing apologist?
I thought loads of people use it tbh and it’s probably fairly representative? The parts of Twitter / X that I frequent seems to include largely normal people but maybe I’m not looking in the same places
Below is the usual level of reply you'll find on Twitter, usually with a big blue tick next to their name, pushed right to the top of the the list by the Elon algorithm.
Nothing. I'm simply amswering a person directly asking why I hold the position I do
Correct. I'd add the same case with the public if most people had sense.
My persnoal stance is an explanation isn't warranted, especially since its rather apparent most had decided what to believe about it all. I don't believe any one outside the law authorities and experts who worked his case have the moral authority nor knowledge nor access to information to make a remotely balanced and accurate judgment on what occured. So in my view the whole moral outrage movement to cancel him was utterly hypocritical and an excercise in virtue signaling. Even worse the club lacked the back bone to stand by their employee if they truly didn't view things like the outraged public did. A reason why those who share my view are happy he is proving able to restart his career away from that madness, after his self admitted misguided behavior.
Last edited:
The vast majority want him back. But understand thanks to circumstance in the UK his chapter at United is done. So hope he can get sold for huge profit given our FFP concerns and need to strengthen.
So? None outside of Greenwood, his alleged victim and the lawyers and investigators who applied their expertise to the case KNOW the context of the what, when and why of the audio. Not a SINGLE person! They spent a year plus on it yet walked away.
The alleged victim herself, who NEVER pressed charges against him but had the police take it up her behalf before they baulked, is believed to be not only back with but starting a family with him. Yet you, with your unknown and likely arbitrary moral standards and unknown expertize on the subjects in the incident want us to believe that qualify's you to not only pass judgment and condemn him, but label anyone unwilling to take the extravagant leaps of logic and ethics your taking with you, moral defective...You're having a laugh.
The fact is there are probably hundreds of players around Europes top leagues that are scummy individuals in one way or another.
If mobile phones and Twitter had been around in George Best’s days then I’m sure many revelations would have come out about our greatest, most cherished players! Ryan Giggs’ affairs, Rooney shagging prostitutes, Ronaldo paying off victims; every team is probably littered with scum bags. Just as there are many scum bags hidden in every organisation in the world.
Either quit watching football for good or accept that total bell ends will be playing for your team
If mobile phones and Twitter had been around in George Best’s days then I’m sure many revelations would have come out about our greatest, most cherished players! Ryan Giggs’ affairs, Rooney shagging prostitutes, Ronaldo paying off victims; every team is probably littered with scum bags. Just as there are many scum bags hidden in every organisation in the world.
Either quit watching football for good or accept that total bell ends will be playing for your team
Guys - this is the genuine response of someone. He is talking about me living somewhere that was gentrified and then moving.
This is the level of discourse.
Extravagant leaps of logic such as listening to a recording of someone being battered and then assuming that it’s real?
You said you feel sorry for Greenwood. Pathetic
Again - the level of discussion and discourse from people who want greenwood back.
Twitter is where our players are often racially abused after games. I wouldn’t use it as a metric to gauge the opinions of proper United fans.I thought loads of people use it tbh and it’s probably fairly representative? The parts of Twitter / X that I frequent seems to include largely normal people but maybe I’m not looking in the same places
I'm not so sure yet. That Sevilla game was the first time he looked more rounded player to me. I'd need to see a few more games like that to say he'd be any better than what we have in our current malaise up top.
And it seems watching our team too
“Misguided” is not the same as telling someone that you’re going to feck them regardless if she wants to or not. Let’s stop trying to water it down and accept that fact.
If you want him to continue playing football and ignore the other stuff, own it. You wouldn’t be someone I’d want to ever converse with again but at least you’d be honest instead of trying to downplay what we all heard
Disagree. I don't want Greenwood back as I feel he genuinely is a bad egg, however I understand those who choose to have an open mind about it feel there might be more to the stuff posted online which may lead to a different conclusion to what most of us decided - it's perfectly possible and it doesn't have to be "wilful ignorance, DC/DA apologism, or worse" for such folks to think so.
P/S: I do want us to sell him for good money though!
You speak a lot of about people deciding that they want to believe he is guilty and cancelling him in this situation, but you always seem to speak about Greenwood as if you believe him to be innocent. Have you not also just made you mind up without knowing everything?
It's not just some case where someone has gone in and made a complaint, the vast majority of us have seen and heard things that are pretty incriminating. I don't understand how people are going to believe he didn't do anything wrong without an explanation. Half the explanations offered in here read like wild fantasies. How could you feel comfortable having him play for the club without a decent explanation?
We can talk about the CPS and the club possibly having information that we don't, but when people are using them as justification for siding with Greenwood people seem lean on that far too much. There are reasons that the CPS can drop charges, even going off the statement they made, which aren't because there was something clearing him. The less said about the club's handling of the situation the better.
Just wanted to pick up this point specifically, as I have seen it (or variations of it) mentioned a number of times in this thread. This is an Americanism with absolutely no meaning in this or any other criminal case in England and Wales - no member of the public in England and Wales can "press charges". Charging decisions are entirely at the discretion of the Crown Prosecution Service and are made after reviewing submissions by the police.
I have also made a post in response to that poster.
The percentiles and statistics being cited here are completely being taken out of context because the stats site that he is citing is comparing Greenwood against other midfielders - not against forwards.
This means some of his passing statistics look poor in comparison to the cohort of La Liga midfielders, as the majority of that cohort play through the middle of the pitch, get on the ball more, pass much more but they also dribble/ball carry a lot less than forwards, so when you actually evaluate his underlying numbers and compare his against other attackers, they hold up for the most part.
Quality control
Obviously. But the mods spend their time contributing to the forum, so if they want to push/ be biased towards their own extreme views, that's their prerogative.
Agree. This is the number 1 reason for bringing him back.
Yes, the biased and extreme views of not wanting (alleged) attempted rapists and domestic abusers representing their club.
If we had a player dropped for anti-semitism or promoting neo-Nazi content, plenty of people on twitter would be positive about him too. Twitter is a human sewer that makes the caf look like a papal conclave. If a majority of people on twitter backed something I said, I'd become less confident not more.
It’s not just Twitter, it’s all of social media to include FB, IG, and beyond where people can comment.
I don’t think that’s necessarily true, even though it does sound likely on surfaces. Truth is not only the CPS has dropped the case (for whatever reasons and we could speculate all day), his girlfriend and her family has also wants the case to be dropped too.
So basically everyone who are related to this or have better knowledge of this, want the case to be dropped, or decide not to go any further. And they all seem happy with the outcome.
And it’s the general public who don’t have full access of information are having problems with that. Of course, we are all free to fill our gaps with our own imaginations to speculate all day and make our own judgment. That’s exactly what’s happening in this thread anyway. But I think it’s wrong to assume there’s only one possible scenario to this, as there could be many.
Last edited:
The key caveat in your post is "outside the internet"
Every single one of us is biased and ultimately twists and turns things to suit their "case", which is nothing but a reflection of fundamental values and priorities.
I'm not at all surprised that local people and club employees, which have a broader perspective on the club's history and legacy don't give two shits about the guys' footballing ability (however badly we could do with it). They grew up with the club as a massive influence on them, so did their folk before them and so will their kids. The club is a relevant institution permeating their lives.
Most internet fans aren't exposed to all that and simply want us to win at football. I'm not saying they are wrong, glory hunters or lesser fans, it's just that it all has different meanings and relative importance shaping our biases. I can see why some focus on what he can contribute at the detriment of everything else.
Personally, I was devastated by all that transpired. Greenwood was the most exciting thing happening in absolute ages (not just prospect, there was feck all to celebrate or write home about). I actually completely switched off for the rest of that season.
I would love it for him to come back, be phenomenal and become an epic story of someone turning their life around after being in the pits (never mind the club's fortunes, that to me would be a great byproduct). I don't believe in his innocence but do believe in second chances, more so when the actual victim is giving him one.
But deep inside I do know what you are alluding to there is a bigger deal and the enormous damage that can result for the club's role in the immediate community not just if he repeats his behaviour but also if he doesn't reach standards whereby people feel comfortable he has turned that corner. It is ultimately gambling it all on the guy's character being worthy of that second chance.
What most drew my attention from your post was the members of staff. They are likely much better equipped to make such a judgment call than any of us ever will be.
Good for you i say. And to be dead honest i don't hold it against you or blame you in any shape or form but you my friend remind me of "offended by everything ashamed of nothing".
Calling people rapists apologists just because they have a different opinion which is fuelled by mostly two reasons is shameful. One is him maybe repenting and moving on in life with same girl and is now a father of a beautiful baby with her, two is them being desperate and worried about the state of their beloved football club and being blinded by that love coupled with point one. Now people might still be wrong in your eyes but to call them rapists apologists is pathetic. But when you got accused you didn't like it. Did you? How the turntables, screaming "guys guys guys" trying to gather people to be on your side complaining about the level of discourse. Funny.
Last edited:
- Status