Mason Greenwood | 2023/24 Performances | on loan to Getafe

[arthurka]

That makes feck all difference.

Just saying

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I make a point and instead of address it posters would rather double down - redcafe. Can't say I'm surprised you're one of them.

I posted on topic yesterday but don't let that stop you

Your point was fictional. Which was pointed out to you. Nobody doubled down. Until you did, just there. Which is ironic.

 

[Yorke to Cole]

Having a second chance is not the same as having no consequences.

And he's still leading a very privileged life. That is a second chance. So we're all good on that count.

George Best lived in a time that tolerated violence against women, I'm glad that is changing, but as you say, to each their own.

Should you not put this in the other discussion?

George Best has been dead for nearly 20 years, so unless someone knows something I don't, he has not been playing much football recently?

 

[moses]

Should you not put this in the other discussion?

George Best has been dead for nearly 20 years, so unless someone knows something I don't, he has not been playing much football recently?

I didn't bring him into the conversation.

 

[flameinthesun]

He is a technically very good player, I'm saying he didn't show creativity in his passing or dribbling on the pitch. His passing was always safe, his dribbling was safe and to keep possession... The only thing he did to a high level compared to others was get shots off.

These were his metrics in 20/21 compared to wingers:

• Key passes - 8th percentile
• Expected assists - 39th percentile
• Passes into final 3rd - 13th percentile
• Passes into box - 40th
• Crosses into box - 42nd
• Progressive passes - 26th
• Take ons attempted - 54th percentile (57th for successful percentage percentile)
• Progressive carries - 63rd
• Carries into box - 77th (good)
• Shots total - 92nd
• Non pen xg - 79th

It basically just shows that aside from his shooting, he wasn't doing much. When he gets the ball in the attacking third, he'll run with it into the box and get a good shot off. That's his elite trait. He didn't really have anything else to his game that he did on a pitch beyond just being neat and tidy (not a problem, just he wasn't a winger... He was a poacher who played wide basically).

Garnacho on the other hand plays like much more of a winger, carrying the ball, getting at players constantly, and it's reflected in the data being in the high 90s for these things.

What were his stats from his first full season when he scored 18 goals? I think if you look at most of the players in 20/21 their stats wouldn't look good. However, that's not to say he is a creative winger, that's clearly not what he is and not what he is expected to become. He was/is the best finisher in the club and therefore the tactical goal should be to always prioritise getting him into goalscoring opportunities. I think it worked very well with Martial as he would drop deeper and allow the likes of Rashford and greenwood to get into those attacking spaces. To have a player like Mason with his finishing ability and utilise him or try to turn him into a standard winger would be insane. If for example we had both Rashford and Greenwood in the team and had to force one to be the creative I would choose Rashford simply as Greenwood is the better finisher.

 

[Massive Spanner]

I think that many footballers would fall under that category.

I haven’t heard voice recordings of those footballers, though. I’m sure if I did I’d feel the same.

 

[Maurice Setters Training]

Is it true that we gave Getafe a clause giving them 20% of any transfer fee? Reputable sources like ‘the Athletic’ are reporting this.

 

[Yorke to Cole]

I haven’t heard voice recordings of those footballers, though. I’m sure if I did I’d feel the same.

This should be in the other discussion. Besides, because there is a recording or a part of a larger recording, does not make it right or completely contextualise the entire situation, towards one case.

Because, oh I heard x but not y makes the latter okay.

People should be given the chance to defend or themselves and the right to rehabilitation.

I am looking to seeing how he gets on against Atletico on Tuesday, will a very tough match.

 

[bosnian_red]

What were his stats from his first full season when he scored 18 goals? I think if you look at most of the players in 20/21 their stats wouldn't look good. However, that's not to say he is a creative winger, that's clearly not what he is and not what he is expected to become. He was/is the best finisher in the club and therefore the tactical goal should be to always prioritise getting him into goalscoring opportunities. I think it worked very well with Martial as he would drop deeper and allow the likes of Rashford and greenwood to get into those attacking spaces. To have a player like Mason with his finishing ability and utilise him or try to turn him into a standard winger would be insane. If for example we had both Rashford and Greenwood in the team and had to force one to be the creative I would choose Rashford simply as Greenwood is the better finisher.

20/21 was a good season, we were 2nd. It was his 2nd full season. 21/22 was the shit one where he got arrested half way through so I ignored that.

19/20 he was still so young during, so his metrics understandably would be not the best (kids take a while to get properly involved). And that's what it showed, a young player who gets a lot of shots off and finishes way above his xG, but other than that did pretty much nothing else in the games.

https://fbref.com/en/players/58eee997/scout/3232/Mason-Greenwood-Scouting-Report

Of course, you expect players as they mature and get more experienced to round out their game. But all we really had were his 2 seasons where what he showed was a player who had a great strike with either foot, finished way above xG, got tons of shots off and was otherwise technically sound, safe with dribbling and passing and those 2 aspects more used to just retain possession rather than be a threat or create. There's tons of value in that, but it just translates into being an elite talent as a poacher, not as a wide player where he's just average IMO.

 

[golden_blunder]

Would you wankers keep this thread to discussing his current form/performances. EVERYTHING ELSE SHOULD BE TAKEN TO THE EXISTING THREAD IN THE UNITED FORUM

this is the performance thread

 

[flameinthesun]

20/21 was a good season, we were 2nd. It was his 2nd full season. 21/22 was the shit one where he got arrested half way through so I ignored that.

19/20 he was still so young during, so his metrics understandably would be not the best (kids take a while to get properly involved). And that's what it showed, a young player who gets a lot of shots off and finishes way above his xG, but other than that did pretty much nothing else in the games.

Ah okay. Yeah makes sense then. I think the context is key with these things, he was what 18/19 or 19/20 in that season, second full season. It made sense he would struggle a bit. Also to put it into context what he was doing and showed in his first full season was not the norm for a 18 yo, it was not a good full debut season, it was a season a generational player would have.

Tbh what I'm seeing at Getafe with his performances is very similar to his last half a season, which is a player who still needs to actively try to impact games but whose general play has matured, he is safe in possession, assured in his passing and is dependable. He just needs to develop that appetite to grab hold of games, which may come as he gets a bit stronger and fitter.

 

[bosnian_red]

Ah okay. Yeah makes sense then. I think the context is key with these things, he was what 18/19 or 19/20 in that season, second full season. It made sense he would struggle a bit. Also to put it into context what he was doing and showed in his first full season was not the norm for a 18 yo, it was not a good full debut season, it was a season a generational player would have.

Tbh what I'm seeing at Getafe with his performances is very similar to his last half a season, which is a player who still needs to actively try to impact games but whose general play has matured, he is safe in possession, assured in his passing and is dependable. He just needs to develop that appetite to grab hold of games, which may come as he gets a bit stronger and fitter.

I haven't watched him for Getafe at all but what I remember of his last half season (without trying to be harsh on him in particular as I don't think anybody could have excelled in that team) was a player who was turning selfish but if anything, not really pushing on and looking more boring/predictable and average as a talent compared to the generational talent he looked at first. Partially due to the team, partially due to me really thinking he's just not a wide player. So if he's still looking like that, then it's very meh.

Ignoring everything else and just looking at the footballing talent, I really feel like he'll be wasted as a talent if he's shoehorned wide as he's just do cautious/safe there and you aren't getting him in and around to box often enough where his only real elite trait can show itself.

 

[Rhyme Animal]

Tbh what I'm seeing at Getafe with his performances is very similar to his last half a season, which is a player who still needs to actively try to impact games but whose general play has matured, he is safe in possession, assured in his passing and is dependable. He just needs to develop that appetite to grab hold of games, which may come as he gets a bit stronger and fitter.

Agree with this but also feel it needs to be taken into account the team he’s playing in and the style of football that team plays.

I think within that context, he’s clearly already impacting every game he plays in for Getafe.

 

[flameinthesun]

I haven't watched him for Getafe at all but what I remember of his last half season (without trying to be harsh on him in particular as I don't think anybody could have excelled in that team) was a player who was turning selfish but if anything, not really pushing on and looking more boring/predictable and average as a talent compared to the generational talent he looked at first. Partially due to the team, partially due to me really thinking he's just not a wide player. So if he's still looking like that, then it's very meh.

Ignoring everything else and just looking at the footballing talent, I really feel like he'll be wasted as a talent if he's shoehorned wide as he's just do cautious/safe there and you aren't getting him in and around to box often enough where his only real elite trait can show itself.

I do agree on your second point about him potentially being wasted out wide, although I reckon if he plays for a possesion dominant team that might not be that much of an issue. He's talented enough to play across the front line, I feel like its more down to him and where he wants to play and then putting the effort in to make it his own.

Agree with this but also feel it needs to be taken into account the team he’s playing in and the style of football that team plays.

I think within that context, he’s clearly already impacting every game he plays in for Getafe.

Yeah definitely, he's playing in a team that is not conducive to getting him into good goal scoring positions regularly. Which makes his performances even better (not outstanding) but gives added context.

 

[Gator Nate]

All true. I'm not sure if people have genuinely forgotten or whether they are using his off the field transgressions against him and consciously diminishing his talent and potential as a result.

Based on my general experience listening to posters in this forum, I'd say the latter.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

There was literally no winger focused attribute that he excelled in by any metric. He excelled in metrics that correlate to strikers. Hid creativity stats are shit. He doesn't dribble past players and didn't have impressive progressive passing or carrying numbers. His defensive work was mediocre. A wide poacher like Rashford is, sure.

‘No winger focused metric’, as if the best wingers in the world Mbappe, Vinci Jr, Salah et al are all a bunch of track back merchants. The biggest metric for ‘wingers’ now is goal/assists, it doesn’t hide all ails but a winger that runs around lots but gives you feck all else sounds a lot like Antony.

What you’re trying to do is trivialise things to muddy the waters. To say he was ‘Incredibly average’ is hyperbole.

Was he the world’s best RW? No but many thought he was being shoehorned out there anyway so his ‘metrics’ leaning more towards a central forward from wide is actually something you could credit him for but no, he no longer plays for us so he was ‘Incredibly average’.

You’re being revisionist & using the fact he wasn’t the second coming of Lord Saka as a stick to beat him. I’ll take a winger that’s a constant G/A threat over one that takes a guy on then puts his cross into Row Z or who wins you the ball back only to lose it doing a spin.

He was/is a very effective player from wide. Argue he’s not elite yes but Incredibly average’. . . enjoy todays Antony performance.

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

I haven't watched him for Getafe at all but what I remember of his last half season (without trying to be harsh on him in particular as I don't think anybody could have excelled in that team) was a player who was turning selfish but if anything, not really pushing on and looking more boring/predictable and average as a talent compared to the generational talent he looked at first. Partially due to the team, partially due to me really thinking he's just not a wide player. So if he's still looking like that, then it's very meh.

Ignoring everything else and just looking at the footballing talent, I really feel like he'll be wasted as a talent if he's shoehorned wide as he's just do cautious/safe there and you aren't getting him in and around to box often enough where his only real elite trait can show itself.

Yeah he meshed terribly with Ronaldo but those first couple of games when he played through the middle he was our best attacker. That Leeds game to open the season was fantastic

 

[Massive Spanner]

This should be in the other discussion. Besides, because there is a recording or a part of a larger recording, does not make it right or completely contextualise the entire situation, towards one case.

Because, oh I heard x but not y makes the latter okay.

People should be given the chance to defend or themselves and the right to rehabilitation.

I am looking to seeing how he gets on against Atletico on Tuesday, will a very tough match.

No it shouldn’t. It should be in any discussion about Greenwood. To have a thread only discussing his performances is to excuse the reason he is no longer welcome at the club or in the PL in the first place. It’s ignorant. We all knew he was a mega talent and discussing just that aspect of him is pointless when trying to have a reasoned debate. feck that.

 

[Anders Agnalt]

It's a shame he's not bacjed and with United. He's a big loss regardless of what he did or did not do.

 

[Pickle85]

This should be in the other discussion. Besides, because there is a recording or a part of a larger recording, does not make it right or completely contextualise the entire situation, towards one case.

Because, oh I heard x but not y makes the latter okay.

People should be given the chance to defend or themselves and the right to rehabilitation.

I am looking to seeing how he gets on against Atletico on Tuesday, will a very tough match.

Please focus on performances here as opposed to using it to rationalize the player's unrelated, horrendous behaviour.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

“the most logical is to return to Manchester but they don't seem to use much logic xd. I also don't see why Greenwood will go back even if he is called because many bigger teams without the luggage will fight for him”

feck me. we really fell off

Who said this?

 

[flameinthesun]

No it shouldn’t. It should be in any discussion about Greenwood. To have a thread only discussing his performances is to excuse the reason he is no longer welcome at the club or in the PL in the first place. It’s ignorant. We all knew he was a mega talent and discussing just that aspect of him is pointless when trying to have a reasoned debate. feck that.

I agree with the user, this should be in the other thread.

I am looking to seeing how he gets on against Atletico on Tuesday, will a very tough match.

Yeah it will be a very tough test for him and the team as I imagine their attacking chances will be severly limited. It'll be interesting to see what his all round play will be like e.g. can he keep the ball under pressure, link up with teammates etc.

 

[JB08]

Multiple news outlets have already stated that Real, Barca and Bayern are scouting him…

He’s an elite player with very rare footballing qualities.

If you think he won’t end up at another huge club I think it’s you who’ll end up surprised to be honest mate.

We’ll see soon I suppose. I don’t think ‘news outlets’ stating anything will change my mind.

 

[TsuWave]

Who said this?

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/mas...n-loan-to-getafe.479075/page-31#post-31448936

 

[golden_blunder]

No it shouldn’t. It should be in any discussion about Greenwood. To have a thread only discussing his performances is to excuse the reason he is no longer welcome at the club or in the PL in the first place. It’s ignorant. We all knew he was a mega talent and discussing just that aspect of him is pointless when trying to have a reasoned debate. feck that.

But if you want go have that type of debate please go to the existing thread like we have asked everyone

 

[Yorke to Cole]

No it shouldn’t. It should be in any discussion about Greenwood. To have a thread only discussing his performances is to excuse the reason he is no longer welcome at the club or in the PL in the first place. It’s ignorant. We all knew he was a mega talent and discussing just that aspect of him is pointless when trying to have a reasoned debate. feck that.

I have replied to this in the other discussion.

 

[afrocentricity]

Your point was fictional. Which was pointed out to you. Nobody doubled down. Until you did, just there. Which is ironic.

You're still in here arguing even though I bumped the old thread hours ago. I think you proved my point.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/mas...n-loan-to-getafe.479075/page-31#post-31448936

Thanks.

 

[Yorke to Cole]

Please focus on performances here as opposed to using it to rationalize the player's unrelated, horrendous behaviour.

No it shouldn’t. It should be in any discussion about Greenwood. To have a thread only discussing his performances is to excuse the reason he is no longer welcome at the club or in the PL in the first place. It’s ignorant. We all knew he was a mega talent and discussing just that aspect of him is pointless when trying to have a reasoned debate. feck that.

I have replied to the above quote in the other discussion. I acknowledge it was not you who posted that, but I have made regular contributions to this discussion in relation to football matters.

I also acknowledge you can't tolerate the man, but at least give me some courtesy where you can make the request people who have the same stand point as yourself.

I recall a discussion with you in the past where we exchanged opinions and came to an understanding although you said "I do not think we will agree but, I can see where you are coming from."

I am disappointed in remark as comes across as backhanded.

 

[golden_blunder]

Right everyone into the other thread. One thread fits all

/shutters