I'd assume he's insanely highly rated within the club, his name's been known well before he ever made an U18 appearance. We've not had a player as dominant as him in a very, very long time.
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How do people rate him in comparison to say James Wilson?
I only ask because I don’t watch the academy players and I remember Wilson being hyped for his exploits there only to fade into obscurity almost immediately upon the step up to first team football.
Obviously there’s a huge element of uncertainty for any kid making the step up but I was wondering if the hype about this guy is the biggest we’ve seen in a while?
I only ask because I don’t watch the academy players and I remember Wilson being hyped for his exploits there only to fade into obscurity almost immediately upon the step up to first team football.
Obviously there’s a huge element of uncertainty for any kid making the step up but I was wondering if the hype about this guy is the biggest we’ve seen in a while?
The main difference between Greenwood and Wilson is that Wilson was largely left footed and relied heavily on pace. While Greenwood scores all types of goals, including headers and free kicks. Wilson unfortunately experienced injuries during key playing periods and this was his downfall rather than a lack of ability. Greenwood certainly looks a step above the rest at youth level and you can see his calmness on the ball during his play against Arsenal. Think we'll start to see him get minutes on the right wing around 70 minute mark in games we need a goal.
He's pretty much got Wilson's speed and shooting, plus fantastic passing and hard work. As others have mentioned he's potentially 1 of the best players in the world at his age, let alone our academy.
I haven't been this excited about a player for a long time.
These are poor examples as most of these were players who were in their 20s and not getting games. They subsequently developed into great players but they weren't seen by their clubs as good enough for the first team at the time.
Wilshere also went out on loan and there are many young players who did. Pique was also with our youth team when he was sent to La Liga on loan
Like I said I don't want Greenwood to go out on loan.
You don't know what you're talking about. Did you even read the post I was responding? He said that even Greenwood scored 2 goals in each of those games, people would still demand more from him. Hence, It was a baseless assumption.
I'm asking based on your posts on the last couple of pages. You seem to be confused why people are excited by him because he do anything amazing in 15 first team minutes. I just wanted to figure out where you're coming from.
Nobody can say how good he'll turn out.
We could compare him to Rashford as a better example. He's not top class but once he got games for the first team a loan was never going to happen.
Greenwood will be similar imo. He's already a very good footballer with no obvious weakness in his game. He will be useful for the first team as it stands
Edit: to clarify I genuinely do think he's going to be a top bracket player but I'm not going to try and argue that point at this stage.
Has Greenwood not been a million miles better than Rash ever was at academy level?
I think the club have fast tracked him for sure. Chong and Gomes are obviously rated highly also, but it seems as though Greenwood is seen as a tier above.
Rashford was never rated as highly at youth level, but you truly never know how players are going to make the transition. For example, few predicted Scott Mctominay would be a first team midfielder when he was in the youth teams. There's also the issue of players having growth spurts at 16/17/18, which changes their physique and playing style. Guys like Chong have to fill out a bit but we truly see what type of player he'll become (I see good things) while Greenwood is already pretty much there physically at 17, and so will obviously dominate at youth level.
The people he plays against are all just as physical as he is. He's never dominated because he's faster or stronger, he's just better. His 2 footness and accurate shooting means young defenders just can't handle him.
You better replied to my "confused posts" then.
All I was saying that his brief cameo (in two games) didn't really say much about him to get people so excited. Why not loan him out? We have enough young players on first team who as expected couldn't be consistent for the whole season, which hinders United progress.
A bunch of young players flourish in these smaller teams. So the excuse that by only staying at United he could develop, is a silly point, imho. KDB, Salah, Sancho are just recent samples of young players need to play lots of games to improve, instead of playing 15 min. here and there.
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Greenwood will hopefully get more games before the season ends, then he has the summer tour. A decision will likely be made after that. Not all young players need to go on loan though. Sancho is a bad example because City didn't want him to go, just like Pogba for us. Nothing to do with needing to improve. At 17 I don't think he should be playing every game anyway. If he's not getting games before he turns 20 that's when a loan makes sense.
That's an odd thing to say about Rashford and McTominay since the word did come from people at the club that they were seen as future first-teamers.
There is a divide between regulars who watch them and have a perception of youth products from the outside and the coaches who know them more intimately.
Mental factors still hold great value at Manchester United. You still gotta want it and be able to cope. La grinta.
McTominay was only promoted to the first team after a ridiculous growth spurt, and has grown as a player from there. He was only 5 feet 6 up until he was 18, and many youth team insiders didn't think he would make it. Rashford is a little different, but he certainly wasn't rated as a generational prospect when he was in the youth team, more like a solid first teamer.
I don't like terms like generational prospects because they're silly. Not saying Greenwood is not perceived to be a bigger talent, which is my opinion as well, just that those two previously mentioned, in retrospect, were tagged as future first teamers at some point. It doesn't always happen before 18. Some are early bloomers, others show a bigger improvement later on.
Yes. I think he will be a much better player. I just know if I say that someone will argue with it so I'm not bothering
I see some comparisons between Rashford and Greenwood. Rashford's biggest strength is his mental strength/desire. Things dont faze him. He is actually unsuccessful in so many of the moves he makes, yet never stops trying, keeps trying skills and you end up with the silky footwork before the assist for Pogba against Bournemouth or the goal against Brighton from left side. It remains to be seen about Greenwood. In general he appears unfazed too but does he have the mental strength and desire to work on his game? Time will tell. He certainly has the talent.
If he becomes a “much better player than Rashford”, what is the level you are talking about? RVN?
He's saying he's a Rooney level talent and will be good enough for the first team nearly immediately. I can't say I've watched him too much, but his cameo was quite promising.
I rate Rashford. I think he will be a good player and have a long career at United. Whether he ever becomes world class or not is hard to predict. He's a bit of a moments player right now. Flashes of quality with a lot of average stuff mixed in. Time will tell whether he can clean up the rough edges in his game and because a truly brilliant player. Either way if he never gets any better than now he'll still be a really good player for us.
Greenwood is a bit more interesting for me because he doesn't really have any rough edges in his game. Most young players have lots of good moments and bad moments, misplaced passes, poor decision making, loose touches etc. Mason doesn't really have this. Everything is just very clean. His touch is superb, his passing is crisp, accurate and well weighted with either foot, he makes the right decisions with the ball. The only times he ever seems to lose the ball is when he's trying to dribble past someone, which is expected.
That's a really good base to start from. On top of that you add pace, strength, extreme two footedness, excellent dribbling skills, powerful and accurate shooting with either foot and confidence and you have something potentially quite special. The ability to shoot equally powerfully off either side is huge for an attacker because it makes you almost unreadable for a defender.
I think he's someone who will walk into the team pretty soon and stay there because he does absolutely everything well. He doesn't seem to have off days with his general play. I guess the only factor I'm not certain of is how his pace will factor in to PL football. He seems very very quick and it's been claimed recently that he was potentially a very high level sprinter as a kid but it's difficult to really assess it from youth football and he's at an age where his real powerful running is probably still developing. If his pace turns out to be comparable with someone like Rashford I would say his ceiling is basically whatever he wants it to be.
Here's a video from a recent U18 match v Liverpool.
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I see that Ole has a choice of Lingard, Mata, or Dalot to play right forward in a 4-3-3 or right attacking midfield in a 4-2-3-1. It's not exactly a huge mountain to climb for Greenwood to gain playing time at those positions over those 3 players. Greenwood's two footed close control, two footed passing/shooting accuracy, vision and anticipation are pretty unique for a player his age. Sancho like even.
If all the above is true, we have a new Mbappe of our own, just better
Yes. I think I'll stop raving about this kid for a while. It probably all sounds a bit crazy.Liverpool didn't have a clue what to do about him. Is that Liverpool game any good?
Completely over the top, I’ve seen Greenwood have some truly auwful games, which you would expect from a young lad developing his game, I remember one game not so long ago, his own parents were shouting for him to be subbed off he was so bad.
Kane was seen as an outstanding youth player though. At Greenwood's age he'd played a higher international level, has a much better international scoring rate. he was also scoring about a goal a game in the u18s as a first year and at Greenwood's age he was scoring every 180 minutes in senior football in League One. He was a huge talent that was massively talked about in youth circles.
He scored 5 in half a season for Leyton Orient season. He would have been 17 at the time and turned 18 that Summer. It's good. To be on similar progression (albeit about 3 months older) Mason would need to go to league One in August and score 5 goals by Christmas. Its hypothetical.
Mason turned 17 about 4 months ago and has scored a nearly goal a game at U18 level for 2 seasons now so don't really see much difference there. Not gonna go searching for England stats.
I also think it's kinda pointless to judge these things on stats. 100s of kids have scored hatfuls in youth teams and never amounted to anything. My assesment is more based on visible strengths and weaknesses.
I realise you may not have meant this as a comparison and instead meant to make the point that Kane wasn't exactly unknown. If that's your point fair enough.
Also, any comparisons with Kane should be taken as flattering for any young player. Kane is a wonderful footballer.
He is (probably) earning more than his parents through hard work and talent, and still getting shouted at by them
.James has an excellent work rate
If OGS starts him against Wolves, we will be able to see. 10 minutes at the end is not enough.
Which match was that?
That's not going to happen, especially in a match as important as this. Unless he's already standing out at first team level in training it would be silly.
As @SteveW says though, I think if everything goes as we hope, he could be in the top 3 attackers of his generation with Mbappe and Sancho. I rate him that highly.
First off, we are unlikely to have at least one not important match left in the season. Secondly, based on his short cameo vs Arsenal, he looked better than Martial and Rashford. Yes, it’s just one game, but still why not to start him, giving Rashford a needed rest?
I've said this before. He's just turned 17. If he doesn't start a match before the end of the season it doesn't matter
Away to 1 of the toughest grounds in the league this year, or home to West Ham in the next league game? I know what i'd choose.
I haven't seem him play apart from youtube and the cameos, but why do you think he will turn out so good? To me he looks like he has a good chance of making it at United, but anymore than that is pure guesswork. Has he done something special, or do you like his consistency, temperament?
I've said this before. He's just turned 17. If he doesn't start a match before the end of the season it doesn't matter
If you are good enough, you are old enough
it’s not about his age, just about him possibly being able to play well. We need results now, and if he can perform better than senior players, let him play now. If he can’t, that’s another story- Status