Martial agent looking for a new club for him

Marwood said:
Don't think he's got the pace anymore to play wide. Combined with him being fairly one footed I'd say that's for sure not happening. Not as a starter anyway.
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What happened to his pace?
 
He should still be our main striker at the start of the season. If he fails to impress then Cavani can takeover.
 
Should have sent him to Birmingham along with Chong
 
Everyone mocking Martial in here, God I cant wait for him to everyone wrong. Its crazy that Cavani is even rated above him. Nobody at the club compares to him on his best days. Its all up to him at this point.
 
KennyBurner said:
Everyone mocking Martial in here, God I cant wait for him to everyone wrong. Its crazy that Cavani is even rated above him. Nobody at the club compares to him on his best days. Its all up to him at this point.
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Martial had a bad season = finished, lazy, worthless.,
Martial had a good season 2019/20 = quality, should have gone with him central earlier, superb player.

Etc etc.

You only have to look at the people writing Kane off a few games ago.
 
iKnowNothing said:
Yup, Liverpool got a good deal here. They spent for an attacker who had experience in the PL and is young (22 or 23 when he was signed I think). Definitely not better than their main trio at the time - Mane, Salah and Firmino and therefore a backup for all these three. Hit the ground running when he got opportunities but was unlucky with the injuries. I can't think of anyone else in the PL who fits this bill and definitely not anyone that we've signed recently.
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So you'd be happy with us spending £40m on Che Adams or Jarrod Bowen then?
 
KennyBurner said:
Everyone mocking Martial in here, God I cant wait for him to everyone wrong. Its crazy that Cavani is even rated above him. Nobody at the club compares to him on his best days. Its all up to him at this point.
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fecking astonishing that a guy who's scored 350+ career goals is rated better than a guy who scored 23 in the best season of his career isn't it.
 
Sandikan said:
Martial had a bad season = finished, lazy, worthless.,
Martial had a good season 2019/20 = quality, should have gone with him central earlier, superb player.

Etc etc.

You only have to look at the people writing Kane off a few games ago.
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Big difference between Kane and Martial, even if Kane doesn't score for 2 or 3 games you know he'll score loads at some point, Martial could go 10 games without scoring only to score 3 or 4 and not score again for 5 games.
I don't think anyone doubts his potential but he should be scoring alot more. Would he benefit going somewhere he starts every game and he's loved even if he only scores 10 a season, yes.
 
He has one more season for me begrudgingly but he’s got to some kind of Shaw renaissance for me to want him stay the season after this upcoming one.

His stats were real fecking bad last season. 2 goals of his 7 goals came against a 10 man Soton which we’d already eviscerated and 1 goal was a pity penalty handed to him by Bruno.
 
Chairman Steve said:
He has one more season for me begrudgingly but he’s got to some kind of Shaw renaissance for me to want him stay the season after this upcoming one.

His stats were real fecking bad last season. 2 goals of his 7 goals came against a 10 man Soton which we’d already eviscerated and 1 goal was a pity penalty handed to him by Bruno.
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That is a good example, as I reckon if we're honest, about 99% of the cafe would have shipped Shaw a few years back.
Many would have taken Danny Rose instead, and the idea of Shaw being better than Rose was laughed off the page.
Now, you have to google to see where Rose has even disappeared to!

However, the other end of the scale, is the Anderson, Bailly, Jones scale, where they're here 5-10 years, and never prove themselves.
 
JB7 said:
fecking astonishing that a guy who's scored 350+ career goals is rated better than a guy who scored 23 in the best season of his career isn't it.
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Well one is fecking 34 years old on his last legs while the other still has time to turn his career around and provide more value. Pretty fecking astonishing alright!
 
KennyBurner said:
Well one is fecking 34 years old on his last legs while the other still has time to turn his career around and provide more value. Pretty fecking astonishing alright!
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How many games are you willing to sacrifice in the hope it finally clicks for Martial? Funny how Cavani on his last legs showed more movement and natural striker instincts than Martial ever has or probably ever will.
 
Judas said:
How many games are you willing to sacrifice in the hope it finally clicks for Martial? Funny how Cavani on his last legs showed more movement and natural striker instincts than Martial ever has or probably ever will.
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First 3 games. If he is still a moody feck then I dont care anymore. I just want to see how he operates with a full stacked team and no handicaps like James and mctominay not getting him the ball.
 
KennyBurner said:
Well one is fecking 34 years old on his last legs while the other still has time to turn his career around and provide more value. Pretty fecking astonishing alright!
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Interesting really, because if you had no idea which was which and you watched them and was told one was 34 and the other is doing his best to turn his career around I'm pretty certain that you'd get them the wrong way round!
 
JB7 said:
fecking astonishing that a guy who's scored 350+ career goals is rated better than a guy who scored 23 in the best season of his career isn't it.
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Maybe we should get Pele in, as his record is second to none.
 
Sandikan said:
Maybe we should get Pele in, as his record is second to none.
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Weird argument given anyone with functioning eyes can see Cavani is on a completely different level to Martial.
 
justsomebloke said:
This is perfectly straightforward.

You argued that without Martial, we would be two injuries away from having to play Daniel James at forward.

I pointed out that we in fact have four players who can play centre forward other than James, which we do.

I also pointed out that two serious injuries in the same position would put us in trouble in any position. Which you seem to think can be argued against by pointing out that we have two players who can play every position, except right back.
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We have Cavani, Martial and Greenwood. One is 34 and can’t play every week and the other is 19.

You don’t sell Martial unless you buy a striker to replace him.

If we were to sell Martial then James becomes a long-term injury to Rashford away from being back up at left wing. If this happens then we struggle to win football games.

Less of the tit-for-tat and recognise the folly of selling yourself short.
 
It's not even to do with this stats returns which were genuinely abysmal last season. People say we should be patient, don't write him off etc, and then make false comparisons to players that have come good.

That would be fine if one of the major reasons he's been a questionable player for us hadn't been his sloppy work rate and movement. Is the penny going to drop all of a sudden? The best predictor of what he's going to be like is every other season he's played for us. There have been some good moments, a good season, but not enough for a highly paid Man Utd forward. We need to see a complete shift in him not just a few extra goals.
 
Why isn't he back in training? is he still injured?? Didn't see him on the pictures for kit lunch is that a sign he's off??
 
Looks like only Adidas sponsored athletes in the initial release.
 
KennyBurner said:
Everyone mocking Martial in here, God I cant wait for him to everyone wrong. Its crazy that Cavani is even rated above him. Nobody at the club compares to him on his best days. Its all up to him at this point.
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There is no doubt that Martial is a fantastic player - if he feels like it.

And that's the biggest problem. Sometimes he plays like he isn't even arsed. I thought he would finally come good last season but this season has been pretty dismal. Injuries has definitely played a role, but even when he's back he doesn't seem to be trying hard or making runs that he should have.
 
Abraxas said:
It's not even to do with this stats returns which were genuinely abysmal last season. People say we should be patient, don't write him off etc, and then make false comparisons to players that have come good.

That would be fine if one of the major reasons he's been a questionable player for us hadn't been his sloppy work rate and movement. Is the penny going to drop all of a sudden? The best predictor of what he's going to be like is every other season he's played for us. There have been some good moments, a good season, but not enough for a highly paid Man Utd forward. We need to see a complete shift in him not just a few extra goals.
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This is a misconception. His work rate is actually pretty pretty good, he presses a lot more than what he's given credit for. Just because he "looks" nonchalant doesn't mean he is, I am pretty sure he makes tons of runs but nobody finds him, especially when Pogba doesn't see it, or Bruno. With the addition of Sancho, I expect way more ball to Martial and he should be thriving in the LFW or CF role, depending on if Cavani plays or not. Especially now that Rashford is out for 2 months at least in the season.

I have high expectations for Martial this season. I think his misses don't show that he's actually a top scorer overall.

Martial has had 6 seasons with us. Even with his crappy last season, he has 55 goals for 310 shots and 143 shots on target.
That's a 17.7% chance to score when he shoots, with a 46.1% chance to shoot on target and 38.5% chance to score when he shoots on target.

As far as I understand, Harry Kane has 166 goals for 916 shots and 405 shots on target.
That's a 18.1% chance to score when he shoots, with a 44.2% chance to shoot on target and 41% chance to score when he shoots on target.

Mohamed Salah has 97 goals for 562 shots and 249 shots on target.
That's a 17.3% chance to score when he shoots, with a 44.3% chance to shoot on target and 38.9% chance to score when he shoots on target.

Son Heung-Min has 70 goals for 416 shots and 182 shots on target.
That's a 16.8% chance to score when he shoots, with a 43.3% chance to shoot on target and 38.4% chance to score when he shoots on target.

Dominique Calvert-Lewin has 40 goals for 270 shots and 118 shots on target.
That's a 14.8% chance to score when he shoots, with a 43.7% chance to shoot on target and 33.9% chance to score when he shoots on target.

James Vardy has 118 goals for 537 shots and 239 shots on target.
That's a 22% chance to score when he shoots, with a 44.5% chance to shoot on target and 49.3% chance to score when he shoots on target.

I think you got my point. Those are the top scorers last season, excluding Bruno and Bamford (because I think Bamford only has one season).
My point is that I think Martial's numbers are more than respectable and very comparable, even to Salah who is considered a top scorer in that league.
We just need to give him opportunities to shoot more. And that includes last year's catastrophic stats.

Martial before last season has 51 goals for 267 shots and 122 shots on target.
That's a 19.1% chance to score when he shoots, with a 45.7% chance to shoot on target and 41.8% chance to score when he shoots on target.

That's even better than Harry Kane stat wise. Given that, I don't see us giving up on Martial that easily.

We have now decided that we want to be a team that can create more shooting opportunities in general, that's why Sancho was brought in, and we will secure more the back if we can get Varane to partner with Maguire. That means that a player like Martial will have more chances to shoot. With the numbers above, he can score more. If his confidence issue is solved, I think we will see a very different Martial. And I trust Ole for that part.
 
Gasolin said:
This is a misconception. His work rate is actually pretty pretty good, he presses a lot more than what he's given credit for. Just because he "looks" nonchalant doesn't mean he is, I am pretty sure he makes tons of runs but nobody finds him, especially when Pogba doesn't see it, or Bruno. With the addition of Sancho, I expect way more ball to Martial and he should be thriving in the LFW or CF role, depending on if Cavani plays or not. Especially now that Rashford is out for 2 months at least in the season.

I have high expectations for Martial this season. I think his misses don't show that he's actually a top scorer overall.

Martial has had 6 seasons with us. Even with his crappy last season, he has 55 goals for 310 shots and 143 shots on target.
That's a 17.7% chance to score when he shoots, with a 46.1% chance to shoot on target and 38.5% chance to score when he shoots on target.

As far as I understand, Harry Kane has 166 goals for 916 shots and 405 shots on target.
That's a 18.1% chance to score when he shoots, with a 44.2% chance to shoot on target and 41% chance to score when he shoots on target.

Mohamed Salah has 97 goals for 562 shots and 249 shots on target.
That's a 17.3% chance to score when he shoots, with a 44.3% chance to shoot on target and 38.9% chance to score when he shoots on target.

Son Heung-Min has 70 goals for 416 shots and 182 shots on target.
That's a 16.8% chance to score when he shoots, with a 43.3% chance to shoot on target and 38.4% chance to score when he shoots on target.

Dominique Calvert-Lewin has 40 goals for 270 shots and 118 shots on target.
That's a 14.8% chance to score when he shoots, with a 43.7% chance to shoot on target and 33.9% chance to score when he shoots on target.

James Vardy has 118 goals for 537 shots and 239 shots on target.
That's a 22% chance to score when he shoots, with a 44.5% chance to shoot on target and 49.3% chance to score when he shoots on target.

I think you got my point. Those are the top scorers last season, excluding Bruno and Bamford (because I think Bamford only has one season).
My point is that I think Martial's numbers are more than respectable and very comparable, even to Salah who is considered a top scorer in that league.
We just need to give him opportunities to shoot more. And that includes last year's catastrophic stats.

Martial before last season has 51 goals for 267 shots and 122 shots on target.
That's a 19.1% chance to score when he shoots, with a 45.7% chance to shoot on target and 41.8% chance to score when he shoots on target.

That's even better than Harry Kane stat wise. Given that, I don't see us giving up on Martial that easily.

We have now decided that we want to be a team that can create more shooting opportunities in general, that's why Sancho was brought in, and we will secure more the back if we can get Varane to partner with Maguire. That means that a player like Martial will have more chances to shoot. With the numbers above, he can score more. If his confidence issue is solved, I think we will see a very different Martial. And I trust Ole for that part.
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His work rate is not good, it is not a misconception at all. His pressing numbers, his distance covered are historically poor. It's not just been dreamt up because of the expression on his face, it is a known fact. Could he improve it? Potentially, but why do we have to wait X number of years for a player to do the basics? It shouldn't happen this way, he's a Manchester United forward.

It reminds me of when Jose goes tits up. He never has much credit in the bank because of the way he operates, the way he treats the press, the disingenuous nonsense he talks, the way he tries to motivate players. It's the same with Martial, when he has poor seasons of which he's had quite a few over the years there is very little to fall back on within his performances. I think the one exception last season was against City away where he put in a good shift as a lone striker, he held the ball and did a job for the team but it is far too infrequent.
 
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There is no way that Martial should be picked infront of Cavani. He will start on the left with Sancho on the right and Cavani down the middle. Greenwood will come in for Cavani 50% of the time so Martial will get a chance in the middle with Sancho on the left and Greenwood on the right.

If Martial is not hitting his numbers, by the tme that Rashford returns, then he could be in trouble with Ole.
 
Abraxas said:
His work rate is not good, it is not a misconception at all. His pressing numbers, his distance covered are historically poor. It's not just been dreamt up because of the expression on his face, it is a known fact. Could he improve it? Potentially, but why do we have to wait X number of years for a player to do the basics? It shouldn't happen this way, he's a Manchester United forward.

It reminds me of when Jose goes tits up. He never has much credit in the bank because of the way he operates, the way he treats the press, the disingenuous nonsense he talks, the way he tries to motivate players. It's the same with Martial, when he has poor seasons of which he's had quite a few over the years there is very little to fall back on within his performances.
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Show us those stats. For me, Martial is covering lots of ground and the players don't see his runs. Especially when he came back as our 9.
There is nothing comparable with Jose here. Martial is a very efficient forward despite last year's catastrophic numbers, which shows that he was even more efficient than what most people thought. When given the opportunity to function in a team that allows him to have more chances to score, his numbers will go back up. I don't think we would give up on that based on all the data analysis we would do. Maybe there are other intangible factors like confidence, but again, I think Ole can handle those.

Overall, why do you care so much about work rate in general? If he scores a lot, nobody cares about that work rate. Let's address the issue a forward is supposed to do. If Ole, who insists on work rate, keeps him in the team, surely he must do the part he's asked to do, full stop.
 
smi11ie said:
There is no way that Martial should be picked infront of Cavani. He will start on the left with Sancho on the right and Cavani down the middle. Greenwood will come in for Cavani 50% of the time so Martial will get a chance in the middle with Sancho on the left and Greenwood on the right.
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Cavani with his age is never starting all games, in fact, I am pretty sure his starting games will be lower and lower and he will be asked to help Greenwood and the others grow first.
 
Gasolin said:
Cavani with his age is never starting all games, in fact, I am pretty sure his starting games will be lower and lower and he will be asked to help Greenwood and the others grow first.
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I reckon Cavani will start about 50% of the games if he is fit. There are always injuries and things so It is hard to predict.
 
smi11ie said:
There is no way that Martial should be picked infront of Cavani. He will start on the left with Sancho on the right and Cavani down the middle. Greenwood will come in for Cavani 50% of the time so Martial will get a chance in the middle with Sancho on the left and Greenwood on the right.

If Martial is not hitting his numbers, by the tme that Rashford returns, then he could be in trouble with Ole.
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Yip, this is his last chance to become a starter IMO. If he is comfortable to be a sub, then maybe he'll stay.
 
Ole needs to rotate the team more if United are going to compete for honours. Martial is very much still needed.
 
Gasolin said:
Show us those stats. For me, Martial is covering lots of ground and the players don't see his runs. Especially when he came back as our 9.
There is nothing comparable with Jose here. Martial is a very efficient forward despite last year's catastrophic numbers, which shows that he was even more efficient than what most people thought. When given the opportunity to function in a team that allows him to have more chances to score, his numbers will go back up. I don't think we would give up on that based on all the data analysis we would do. Maybe there are other intangible factors like confidence, but again, I think Ole can handle those.
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Have a look on FBref at his pressures. The data is there, only around 10% of forwards are worse than him for pressures. This is probably also reflected in the abysmal tackles and interceptions stat as it's difficult to do either if you're not near anybody. For attacking midfielders he would be considered even worse however I would consider the stat compared to forwards to be fair to him as he hasn't played wide often of late.

The comparison within our setup is very direct and fair, Cavani is in the top 33% despite his age. This is very basic and obvious stuff that most people noted simply by watching the games to be honest, it's as if you've dreamt up an alternate reality.

For distance covered you'll have to do the research yourself as it's not a widely circulated stat I don't believe, but he has been compared to his peers and was predictably poor, which is backed up by the eye test.
 
Gasolin said:
This is a misconception. His work rate is actually pretty pretty good, he presses a lot more than what he's given credit for. Just because he "looks" nonchalant doesn't mean he is, I am pretty sure he makes tons of runs but nobody finds him, especially when Pogba doesn't see it, or Bruno. With the addition of Sancho, I expect way more ball to Martial and he should be thriving in the LFW or CF role, depending on if Cavani plays or not. Especially now that Rashford is out for 2 months at least in the season.

I have high expectations for Martial this season. I think his misses don't show that he's actually a top scorer overall.

Martial has had 6 seasons with us. Even with his crappy last season, he has 55 goals for 310 shots and 143 shots on target.
That's a 17.7% chance to score when he shoots, with a 46.1% chance to shoot on target and 38.5% chance to score when he shoots on target.

As far as I understand, Harry Kane has 166 goals for 916 shots and 405 shots on target.
That's a 18.1% chance to score when he shoots, with a 44.2% chance to shoot on target and 41% chance to score when he shoots on target.

Mohamed Salah has 97 goals for 562 shots and 249 shots on target.
That's a 17.3% chance to score when he shoots, with a 44.3% chance to shoot on target and 38.9% chance to score when he shoots on target.

Son Heung-Min has 70 goals for 416 shots and 182 shots on target.
That's a 16.8% chance to score when he shoots, with a 43.3% chance to shoot on target and 38.4% chance to score when he shoots on target.

Dominique Calvert-Lewin has 40 goals for 270 shots and 118 shots on target.
That's a 14.8% chance to score when he shoots, with a 43.7% chance to shoot on target and 33.9% chance to score when he shoots on target.

James Vardy has 118 goals for 537 shots and 239 shots on target.
That's a 22% chance to score when he shoots, with a 44.5% chance to shoot on target and 49.3% chance to score when he shoots on target.

I think you got my point. Those are the top scorers last season, excluding Bruno and Bamford (because I think Bamford only has one season).
My point is that I think Martial's numbers are more than respectable and very comparable, even to Salah who is considered a top scorer in that league.
We just need to give him opportunities to shoot more. And that includes last year's catastrophic stats.

Martial before last season has 51 goals for 267 shots and 122 shots on target.
That's a 19.1% chance to score when he shoots, with a 45.7% chance to shoot on target and 41.8% chance to score when he shoots on target.

That's even better than Harry Kane stat wise. Given that, I don't see us giving up on Martial that easily.

We have now decided that we want to be a team that can create more shooting opportunities in general, that's why Sancho was brought in, and we will secure more the back if we can get Varane to partner with Maguire. That means that a player like Martial will have more chances to shoot. With the numbers above, he can score more. If his confidence issue is solved, I think we will see a very different Martial. And I trust Ole for that part.
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Great post. Just because people are biased against him, they are quick to overlook the 2019-2020 season where he was the top scorer with 24 goals. Even the most ardent of Martial's fans will agree that he had a terrible last season, poor form, injuries and most of all, terrible finishing, something which he has been generally good at till the last season.

An Anthony Martial in peak form is one of the most complete strikers in the world, and he has shown great mental resilience time and time again. He deserves a second chance this season with the likes of Sancho, who is surely going to improve our attackers, and I am quite hopeful that he will prove the naysayers wrong. If he doesn't, he goes next season and we definitely will bring a good striker to replace him in the long term.
 
He is going to confuse us all again when he comes blasting out of the blocks at the start of the season, scoring a selection of bangers. I'm calling it now.
 
KennyBurner said:
First 3 games. If he is still a moody feck then I dont care anymore. I just want to see how he operates with a full stacked team and no handicaps like James and mctominay not getting him the ball.
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Martial isn't competing with Cavani anymore. He is completing with Greenwood! Cavani has come in and the penny has suddenly dropped with everyone. Collectively we have all acknowledged, "Oh, that's what striker looks like. That's how they run off the ball and create space. That's how they drag the centre backs all over the place. That's how they dive in to head anything coming into the box. That's how they track back to win the ball and bring others into play. That's how they score the winner in a tight games. That's how they rise to the big occasions. That's a proper centre forward."

Martial is way way off the standard required at a top club. He is 25, and still doesn't know his best position. He wants to be a CF, but doesn't possess any of the qualities to perform that role. Greenwood is ahead of him in that role. He has had lots of, "this is his chance to prove himself now" seasons. And has never really nailed his position down. Twice now, we have brought in veteran strikers and they have both pushed Martial out. If he was better than them, we would never have done that. Selling Lukaku was his big chance, and he fluffed his lines again.

If someone puts a bid in this summer for Martial, I would take the money and invest it in quality CDM.
 
I didn't see him in training pics, seems he is still injured, was there a timeline mentioned for when he will be back to train with the group.
 
Wheato said:
Martial isn't competing with Cavani anymore. He is completing with Greenwood! Cavani has come in and the penny has suddenly dropped with everyone. Collectively we have all acknowledged, "Oh, that's what striker looks like. That's how they run off the ball and create space. That's how they drag the centre backs all over the place. That's how they dive in to head anything coming into the box. That's how they track back to win the ball and bring others into play. That's how they score the winner in a tight games. That's how they rise to the big occasions. That's a proper centre forward."

Martial is way way off the standard required at a top club. He is 25, and still doesn't know his best position. He wants to be a CF, but doesn't possess any of the qualities to perform that role. Greenwood is ahead of him in that role. He has had lots of, "this is his chance to prove himself now" seasons. And has never really nailed his position down. Twice now, we have brought in veteran strikers and they have both pushed Martial out. If he was better than them, we would never have done that. Selling Lukaku was his big chance, and he fluffed his lines again.

If someone puts a bid in this summer for Martial, I would take the money and invest it in quality CDM.
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Since when is Greenwood ahead of him in that role? Whenever Greenwood plays as a CF, he has the same issue that people see with Martial. The role as of now is designed that way. Cavani does the things you mention but doesn't combine as well as Martial does for example. Our CF role is a complex one, with a mix of being a false 9 to being a scorer. And again, Martial makes great runs that players now have to start to pick them up.

I think there are some weird takes about Martial in this thread. Martial issue last season was just finishing. There were plenty of games where he was great, was able to hold the ball, and combine with our players, only to not score. People now remember parts of games where he did not score, and combine those memories somehow with parts of games where he did not supposedly run, and then make up a whole narrative. Anyway, we are probably not giving up on Martial this year. We will try to solve his confidence issue by pairing him with players who can help him combine and put him in shooting positions more. And then we will see.
 
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