[Roboc7]

Rubbish. They all do it. Liverpool have often left VVD up top when they're chasing a game, even City go more direct.

It’s not rubbish they don’t resort to it if A plan isn’t working. They try other things first, Liverpool don’t shove VVD up front with 25-45 minutes to go like we have done time after time with Fellaini, it’s a last resort when nothing else works, about 10 minutes is enough.

He’s rarely effective as a target man, VVD would probably be better in fact. Fellaini would get minimal game time and struggle to get on the bench at any top side. None of them wanted him on a three and they all cope without a player like him I their squad which a lot of people are oblivious to.

I think Ole will use him just not as much and probably won’t feel need to have him on the bench even which is a fair reflection of his ability. Fellaini is probably disappointed as he is only player who would probably prefer anise to still be in charge.

 

[Bola]

Very surprising if attitude is the issue. If anything, Fellaini is praised for keeping his head down and following instructions. I'm not so sure about this.



Yep. Whether it is Pogba/Jose or Fellaini/Ole, I don't like us not using certain players for reasons not related to their actual abilities. Fact is, Fellaini would have been useful for us yesterday.

I hope Ole is not using Fellaini to pander to the crowd who perceive him as the mascot for everything wrong that has happened in the past 4 years. But if it's an attitude problem in truth, his ostracization is justified.

Regarding Fellani not being on the bench yesterday, I wonder if that was down to the balance of the subs.

We had a RB, a GK, Lukkaku and the rest were effectively centre mid players. If Ole is trying to give youth a chance, while having creative options on the bench, then that means Fellani had to miss out.

Different story if Fellani is considered as a Plan B target man though, as I'd prefer him over Lukkaku

 

[Roboc7]

Very surprising if attitude is the issue. If anything, Fellaini is praised for keeping his head down and following instructions. I'm not so sure about this.



Yep. Whether it is Pogba/Jose or Fellaini/Ole, I don't like us not using certain players for reasons not related to their actual abilities. Fact is, Fellaini would have been useful for us yesterday.

I hope Ole is not using Fellaini to pander to the crowd who perceive him as the mascot for everything wrong that has happened in the past 4 years. But if it's an attitude problem in truth, his ostracization is justified.

Maybe Fellaini is struggling, he signed a new contract because of Mourinho and for the money, he probably doesn’t have a great affinity for the club or the fans and might take time to get over the managerial change.

Another reason could be he is struggling in training, there has probably been a big change and he maybe isn’t suited to it.

It’s not a fact he would have been useful, he may have been a hinderance. Too often Fellaini has been a lazy, default sub. If there isn’t a specific plan for how to use him then don’t use him until there is.

 

[ivaldo]

It’s not rubbish they don’t resort to it if A plan isn’t working. They try other things first, Liverpool don’t shove VVD up front with 25-45 minutes to go like we have done time after time with Fellaini, it’s a last resort when nothing else works, about 10 minutes is enough.

He’s rarely effective as a target man, VVD would probably be better in fact. Fellaini would get minimal game time and struggle to get on the bench at any top side. None of them wanted him on a three and they all cope without a player like him I their squad which a lot of people are oblivious to.

I think Ole will use him just not as much and probably won’t feel need to have him on the bench even which is a fair reflection of his ability. Fellaini is probably disappointed as he is only player who would probably prefer anise to still be in charge.

You’ve just said no other teams use the tactic, and now you’re saying no other team does it for longer than 10 minutes. That’s a big difference.

As another poster pointed out Spurs literally did just that on Sunday when bringing on Llorente. We may have done it with less sophistication than our counterparts and have moved to that tactic more swiftly, but they do it none the less.

He’s very effective as a target man. We’ve seen that time and time again. His ability to bring a high ball down is second to none and has almost always caused problems for our opposition when he’s used in that capacity. He isn’t fashionable but he’s effective. He’s certainly a viable option off the bench if Ole wants to use him, if he doesn’t then I’m fine with that too.

 

[Foxbatt]

The problem for me in not using him while he is here is that the other options are worse. Fellaini is much better than Lukaku in those situations. Even if we are trying to score throw Fellaini up front and he would cause problems. Like yesterday, if It was Fellaini he would have caused more problems for Spurs than Lukaku did. I do not mind him being replaced but for now he is the better option.

 

[FootballHQ]

you guys do not understand. Fergie won because we had other options available. Right now we do not have those options available. Selling him is good if we get the players we need so that we do not need that option of Fellaini. Right now we do not have that options of buying those players before the summer.

I'm amazed any United fan is looking at football you're playing last 4 weeks and thinking what is missing is Fellaini!!

One of the con jobs Mourinho pulled was convincing many he was some sort of OGS wonder option off the bench.

As others have said Lukaku can be that option off the bench against tiring defences if more direct style is needed.

 

[Foxbatt]

I'm amazed any United fan is looking at football you're playing last 4 weeks and thinking what is missing is Fellaini!!

One of the con jobs Mourinho pulled was convincing many he was some sort of OGS wonder option off the bench.

As others have said Lukaku can be that option off the bench against tiring defences if more direct style is needed.

Yes we saw how Lukaku worked yesterday against Spurs. I would rather have Fellaini in that situation rather than Lukaku. Fellaini has his uses and while he is at United he should be used. If he goes in the summer the better it is.

 

[Loublaze]

He is not needed anymore. I can see United letting him leave on loan in this window, never to return!

 

[Ali Dia]

I don’t mind if he stays or goes this window but I reckon himself and Mata are gonners at the end of the season. If Ole and Phelan are listening to fergie I reckon he’ll say to ship out the squad players brought in under Moyes and LVG as soon as possible to make way for youth and signings who can help us kick on to the next level.

 

[staniswin]

Is He really sulking just because this is the first time he has to deal with the manager that doesn't favor him ? He has been loved by all our three previous manager so he couldn't accept this reality yet. On serious note, he would have been useful coming from the bench than the likes of Pereira and Fred, "one of the best manager in the world", Pochettino just show us that he would use a big lump when they are chasing game.

 

[lex talionis]

Fellaini coming on late instead of Lukaku would have been a disaster. He has no speed whatsoever to chase a route one ball and he's a liability deep in his own third. On the hand, if we're chasing a goal and we've run out of ideas throwing Fellaini on for the hoof isn't the worst option a desperate manager could resort to.

But in truth, if we truly aspire to bring United back to where it belongs, we need bid Fellaini adieu. I'm sure there's Turkish club who would want him.

 

[stevoc]

I'm amazed any United fan is looking at football you're playing last 4 weeks and thinking what is missing is Fellaini!!

One of the con jobs Mourinho pulled was convincing many he was some sort of OGS wonder option off the bench.

As others have said Lukaku can be that option off the bench against tiring defences if more direct style is needed.

Welcome to the Redcafe Fellaini thread.

 

[Roboc7]

You’ve just said no other teams use the tactic, and now you’re saying no other team does it for longer than 10 minutes. That’s a big difference.

As another poster pointed out Spurs literally did just that on Sunday when bringing on Llorente. We may have done it with less sophistication than our counterparts and have moved to that tactic more swiftly, but they do it none the less.

He’s very effective as a target man. We’ve seen that time and time again. His ability to bring a high ball down is second to none and has almost always caused problems for our opposition when he’s used in that capacity. He isn’t fashionable but he’s effective. He’s certainly a viable option off the bench if Ole wants to use him, if he doesn’t then I’m fine with that too.

Its nonsense to say he is effective time and time again, he has been put in that position dozens and dozens of times and rarely does it work. It looks more dangerous than it actually is. The few times a season it does work is what too many people hold on to.

He’s occasionally effective, like any percentage player, but any decent side will try a lot of different things before resorting to hoofing it forward and often only do it for few minutes a few times a season. That’s not because it’s unfashionable it’s because it rarely works, if it worked regularly more teams would do it. That’s why no one else was willing to pay his release clause at Everton and why no one wanted him on a free, they simply don’t want a player like him.

Every so often he does score or create a goal (very rarely in the league though) but we’ll get more results by binning him and removing the lazy tactic.

 

[ivaldo]

Its nonsense to say he is effective time and time again, he has been put in that position dozens and dozens of times and rarely does it work. It looks more dangerous than it actually is. The few times a season it does work is what too many people hold on to.

He’s occasionally effective, like any percentage player, but any decent side will try a lot of different things before resorting to hoofing it forward and often only do it for few minutes a few times a season. That’s not because it’s unfashionable it’s because it rarely works, if it worked regularly more teams would do it. That’s why no one else was willing to pay his release clause at Everton and why no one wanted him on a free, they simply don’t want a player like him.

Every so often he does score or create a goal (very rarely in the league though) but we’ll get more results by binning him and removing the lazy tactic.

It worked plenty of times. Still, its akin to saying playing Rashford and Martial as part of a front three doesn’t work because it was rarely effective during our time under Jose. No attacking variant was effective under Jose, so it’s unfair to single out a more direct style involving Fellaini on that basis.

Conversely, if it was ineffective then no team would do it, and that includes Pool, Spurs and even City who have all played directly when required. Is it as effective as counterattacking football or a short passing game? No. Does that mean it has no place when those aforementioned approaches fail? Of course not. If we reach the last 10 minutes in a must win game and hammering at the door with our preferred tactic hasn’t work for 80+ minutes then I’d absolutely like to have Fellaini as an option off the bench.

They don’t want him on a free because he’s 31 with a hefty wage. You don’t become an integral part of Everton, spent half a decade at United, all the while accumulating almost 90 caps for an incredibly talented international side if you’re “rarely effective.”

 

[Djemba-Djemba]

It worked plenty of times. Still, its akin to saying playing Rashford and Martial as part of a front three doesn’t work because it was rarely effective during our time under Jose. No attacking variant was effective under Jose, so it’s unfair to single out a more direct style involving Fellaini on that basis.

Conversely, if it was ineffective then no team would do it, and that includes Pool, Spurs and even City who have all played directly when required. Is it as effective as counterattacking football or a short passing game? No. Does that mean it has no place when those aforementioned approaches fail? Of course not. If we reach the last 10 minutes in a must win game and hammering at the door with our preferred tactic hasn’t work for 80+ minutes then I’d absolutely like to have Fellaini as an option off the bench.

They don’t want him on a free because he’s 31 with a hefty wage. You don’t become an integral part of Everton, spent half a decade at United, all the while accumulating almost 90 caps for an incredibly talented international side if you’re “rarely effective.”

But it hasn't.

I don't know why people keep claiming that.

In his 5 and a half years at the club throwing him on at the end for us to lump the ball to has worked about 4 or 5 times. And that's being generous.

We never needed to do that under Fergie, no other big club has a player they only use to lump the ball to in the last 10 minutes when they need a goal. We don't need that kind of player, we should be above that. Thankfully Ole seems to think that too.

 

[Sylar]

What are the times its worked? I know he was thrown on at half time under LVG and scored a goal (equaliser) but what specific times has it worked?

 

[ivaldo]

But it hasn't.

I don't know why people keep claiming that.

In his 5 and a half years at the club throwing him on at the end for us to lump the ball to has worked about 4 or 5 times. And that's being generous.

We never needed to do that under Fergie, no other big club has a player they only use to lump the ball to in the last 10 minutes when they need a goal. We don't need that kind of player, we should be above that. Thankfully Ole seems to think that too.

What four or five times were they? It seems if Fellaini didn’t score or pick up an assist people loath to give him any credit. What do you think happens when Fellaini wonders into the box at the back post? Do you think it has no effect on the opposition? That it doesn’t pull the centrebacks out of position? Or force them to play deeper, or the midfielders to move closer to the defence to pick up any knockdowns. I’ll guarantee defenders will feel uncomfortable when Fellaini drifts into their area, we certainly did when he played against us.

Spurs literally brought Llorente on to do that in our last game. Fergie was never adverse to lumping it forward when other tactics have failed.

I think I need to repeat that I’m apathetic about whether Fellaini stays of goes, and I was never his biggest fan, but I don’t understand this constant bashing of him. He was effective. He might not marry up to our expectations as to how we want to play, but that’s another matter.

 

[peridigm]

What are the times its worked? I know he was thrown on at half time under LVG and scored a goal (equaliser) but what specific times has it worked?

Injury time winner against Young Boys away in the CL.

 

[Foxbatt]

The Juventus game comes to mind. They were so scared of him they messed up and scored an own goal. The Ajax game in Final of the EL was won because they could not get close to Fellaini. I think even this season he scored the winner in the dying stages of the game. It works a lot of times when he is used properly. You put him in midfield instead of Pogba and it will fail miserably as it has shown.
I remember when Cruijff was at Barca he used to put Salinas on top and bombard with high balls if Barca is losing or drawing in the last few minutes. Belgium won against Brasil because Fellaini was such a nuisance to Neymar. They beat Japan because they could not get close to Fellaini.
The big man has his uses when another option is needed.

 

[Snow]

I'm amazed any United fan is looking at football you're playing last 4 weeks and thinking what is missing is Fellaini!!

One of the con jobs Mourinho pulled was convincing many he was some sort of OGS wonder option off the bench.

As others have said Lukaku can be that option off the bench against tiring defences if more direct style is needed.

Fellaini is like a fetish to some people. It used to be that people were ashamed of their fetishes and kept them private but no such thing anymore.

Selling him is a no-brainer.

 

[midou]

The fact that people are arguing whether Lukaku or Fellaini is the better option to lump the ball to makes me sad.

Both are horrible and I hope both leave. If you are happy with having them as "options" don't complain about our league position, as they are 100% not top4 players.

 

[Canagel]

The fact that people are arguing whether Lukaku or Fellaini is the better option to lump the ball to makes me sad.

Both are horrible and I hope both leave. If you are happy with having them as "options" don't complain about our league position, as they are 100% not top4 players.

This.

 

[Mcking]

The fact that people are arguing whether Lukaku or Fellaini is the better option to lump the ball to makes me sad.

Both are horrible and I hope both leave. If you are happy with having them as "options" don't complain about our league position, as they are 100% not top4 players.

We finished 2nd on the league table with Lukaku not very long ago.

 

[BluesJr]

We finished 2nd on the league table with Lukaku not very long ago.

Great achievement, will live long in the memory. What a magnificent season.

The worst 2nd we've ever had and is irrelevant in discussing whether players should be in the team, remain, or stay.

 

[NoPace]

The fact that people are arguing whether Lukaku or Fellaini is the better option to lump the ball to makes me sad.

Both are horrible and I hope both leave. If you are happy with having them as "options" don't complain about our league position, as they are 100% not top4 players.

I think West Brom Lukaku, 20 minutes off the bench up top and providing consistent goalscoring against small teams could still be really effective for us until his inevitable transfer. He won't be happy being Rashford's backup, but he could be a very effective one for us for the next 6-18 months even as his agent starts looking for an exit.

I'd be fine with Martial at LW, Rashford as the 9 and Rashford spelling Martial at LW with Lukaku up top at times if the only attacking signing we make this summer is signing a RW and selling Sanchez. It's not easy to find a backup 9, only City really have a great one (Jesus), and I guess Arsenal would if you don't count Lacazette as a starter. The money is a sunk cost.

 

[Mcking]

Great achievement, will live long in the memory. What a magnificent season.

The worst 2nd we've ever had and is irrelevant in discussing whether players should be in the team, remain, or stay.

But we finished second - and hence top 4 - with Lukaku as first choice.

 

[Kostov]

The hate for Fellaini from our own fans never seizes to amaze me. Pathetic.

 

[Mcking]

The hate for Fellaini from our own fans never seizes to amaze me. Pathetic.

Yes, it is the same with Lingard. Pathetic imo

 

[AndyJ1985]

The hate for Fellaini from our own fans never seizes to amaze me. Pathetic.

Yes, it is the same with Lingard. Pathetic imo

Not as pathetic as grown men getting upset that a footballer is being criticised on the internet.

 

[Kostov]

Yes, it is the same with Lingard. Pathetic imo

Not rating and criticizing his performance or behavior is one thing. Unwarranted slating just because it’s Fellaini is pathetic. Fellaini always gives 100% just like Lingard and has been a good servant when called upon.

 

[Kostov]

Not as pathetic as grown men getting upset that a footballer is being criticised on the internet.

Criticized for what exactly, for being Fellaini?

 

[L1nk]

Not rating and criticizing his performance or behavior is one thing. Unwarranted slating just because it’s Fellaini is pathetic. Fellaini always gives 100% just like Lingard and has been a good servant when called upon.

The hate for Fellaini from our own fans never seizes to amaze me. Pathetic.

Yes, it is the same with Lingard. Pathetic imo

Why is it pathetic? This holier than thou moral high ground attitude has gone on far too long at this club, perhaps you remember not so long ago Fellaini was publicly calling us out, threatening to go to other clubs, refusing to sign his contract, Mourinho and him bending the club over a barrel so that not only did we renew the contract of a bang average player well into his 30's but we gave him a ridiculous pay rise that apparently nobody else is willing to match? Gee, and I wonder why that is.

It's about time we stopped entertaining the idea that, as a club, we are somehow superior to others, that we should treat all players like this regardless of ability, in the sense that, it doesn't matter how good the player is, as long as he tries hard, he should play for this club. No. A player like Fellaini, should not be anywhere near this club, if we are to reach the top again. It's this attitude, this pathetically mediocre attitude that has dragged us down, that has our squad overflowing with overrated squad players on over inflated wages that we can't get rid of. Time to be ruthless, like we used to be, Fellaini wouldn't be in the squad of any top club challenging for top trophies in any team in Europe, so why is he good enough for us, he tries hard? He's tall? He runs? So what, get him out, you think he has some massive respect for this club? No, we pay his wages, he's an employee, and a handsomely rewarded one at that.

 

[UncleBob]

Please explain why we bought him few minutes prior deadline for 30m when we could have signned him for less just 5 days before.

I was watching bbc at cardiff when we signed him up. The presenter wasn't sure that we managed to register him on time. That's how last minute that signing was

Ask Moyes, he was the one stating the importance of not making Fellaini our first signing.

 

[MadDogg]

No it doesn't matter . We will play around him just like other teams do to us when he plays now.

Like Juventus did when he came on and had arguably the favourites for the Champions League terrified because they had no idea how to handle him?

The guy, when he is used right, is an absolute weapon. Unfortunately for a significant portion of the time he's been here he's been used in a way that doesn't suit the team. That's not his fault; it's the manager's. But people judge him on that.

 

[Roboc7]

It worked plenty of times. Still, its akin to saying playing Rashford and Martial as part of a front three doesn’t work because it was rarely effective during our time under Jose. No attacking variant was effective under Jose, so it’s unfair to single out a more direct style involving Fellaini on that basis.

Conversely, if it was ineffective then no team would do it, and that includes Pool, Spurs and even City who have all played directly when required. Is it as effective as counterattacking football or a short passing game? No. Does that mean it has no place when those aforementioned approaches fail? Of course not. If we reach the last 10 minutes in a must win game and hammering at the door with our preferred tactic hasn’t work for 80+ minutes then I’d absolutely like to have Fellaini as an option off the bench.

They don’t want him on a free because he’s 31 with a hefty wage. You don’t become an integral part of Everton, spent half a decade at United, all the while accumulating almost 90 caps for an incredibly talented international side if you’re “rarely effective.”

It hasn’t worked plenty of times, a handful in 5 and a half years and yet people think letting him go is some kind of loss.

The top Teams have lots of different ways of playing but none of them regularly choose hoofing it to target men, like I say there’s a reason why that happens and why the teams that do use it as a tactic play at a lower level.

He had a release cause at Everton and only Moyes was interested and was a available on a free and couldn’t find anywhere decent to go. Surely if he is so effective and has had such a great career there should have been queue of teams both times.

Where will he go if he leaves in January, China or Turkey maybe, that shows the demand for his skill set. He’s a midtable player, always has been and has survived at United because of awful and outdated management. The worse United are the better for Fellaini and vice versa.

 

[Robbie Boy]

This thread:

“he’s shite”
“No he’s not he’s often come off the bench to earn us points”
“No this is myth (backed up by stats)”
“Well he gets in the Belgium team who are one of the best in the world and 3 different managers rated him”

Rinse and repeat.

 

[Canagel]

Like Juventus did when he came on and had arguably the favourites for the Champions League terrified because they had no idea how to handle him?

The guy, when he is used right, is an absolute weapon. Unfortunately for a significant portion of the time he's been here he's been used in a way that doesn't suit the team. That's not his fault; it's the manager's. But people judge him on that.

like Crystal Palace, Young Boys and many other teams that were terrified? What about all the other games he plays in midfield with zero impact and it's quickly swept under the carpet because of "special qualities"? The guy is bang average and forces the team to play in certain way because of his limitations in midfield. That role can easily be taken by proper midfield player that will fit our style of football and the way we want to play.

He's been used exactly like he's meant to be - a midfield player. And probably too much at that. Quite ironically the first manager that's played the best football since SAF also happens to not be interested in Fellaini. What a coincidence! And people still want to hang on?? Unbelievable.

 

[MadDogg]

The top Teams have lots of different ways of playing but none of them regularly choose hoofing it to target men, like I say there’s a reason why that happens and why the teams that do use it as a tactic play at a lower level.

Having Fellaini doesn't mean that you can only hoof the ball. Our very best football we ever played under LVG had Fellaini in there, and we certainly weren't hoofing the ball then. Just because that was Mourinho's tactic, whether Fellaini was playing or not, doesn't mean that it's the only possible way to play with Fellaini. Sure, he's not going to be highly involved with beautiful short-passing and one-twos around the edge of the box, but there's a lot of options in between that and hoof-ball.

 

[MadDogg]

like Crystal Palace, Young Boys and many other teams that were terrified? What about all the other games he plays in midfield with zero impact and it's quickly swept under the carpet because of "special qualities"? The guy is bang average and forces the team to play in certain way because of his limitations in midfield. That role can easily be taken by proper midfield player that will fit our style of football and the way we want to play.

He's been used exactly like he's meant to be - a midfield player. And probably too much at that. Quite ironically the first manager that's played the best football since SAF also happens to not be interested in Fellaini. What a coincidence! And people still want to hang on?? Unbelievable.

If he's used as a normal midfielder in the centre of the park, sure. He's normally terrible at that, and it was extremely frustrating that Mourinho kept using him that way.

Fellaini is a role-player for a top team, somebody who can be given a particular job to focus on and he'll generally do it very well. That's why he'd be a good squad player as long as he was only used in that way. I actually think Fergie would have loved Fellaini for that ability, while not falling into the trap of using him too much.

If it's a choice between him starting a lot of games, particularly as a midfielder, and him leaving, I'd want him out as fast as possible. I'd pack his bags and drive him to the airport myself. But those aren't the only options. Of course he may not be happy with that kind of role, in which case I'd wish him well and sell.

 

[ivaldo]

It hasn’t worked plenty of times, a handful in 5 and a half years and yet people think letting him go is some kind of loss.

The top Teams have lots of different ways of playing but none of them regularly choose hoofing it to target men, like I say there’s a reason why that happens and why the teams that do use it as a tactic play at a lower level.

He had a release cause at Everton and only Moyes was interested and was a available on a free and couldn’t find anywhere decent to go. Surely if he is so effective and has had such a great career there should have been queue of teams both times.

Where will he go if he leaves in January, China or Turkey maybe, that shows the demand for his skill set. He’s a midtable player, always has been and has survived at United because of awful and outdated management. The worse United are the better for Fellaini and vice versa.

You're being highly exaggerative here. It's clearly not a hand full of times in 5 and a half years. You can't be expected to be taken seriously with that.

No they don't regularly do it, but they do it. That's the point I'm making. I'm not advocating we play like this regularly, nor am I stating that Fellaini should be used as anything other than a sub, or even that he should remain at the club, all I'm saying is contrary to what you and others lead us to beleive, Fellaini can be an effective player.

It's becoming increasingly popular on this place and within the tribalistic halls of football that observations need to be absolute in their nature: it's either shit or amazing.

There is a plethora of examples of players in the same position. Vardy for example, moved from Fleetwood for a million. He didn't become an England regular and the object of an Arsenal bid because no one else was in for him at the time. Shaqiri must have been a shit signing for Liverpool because they managed to pick him up for an misery release clause with little to no competition.

I didn't say he "so effective,' I said he could "be effective." Again you're driving the issue to one of extremes. At no point have I said he's some valuable asset we simply must keep hold of. You simply don't play for the clubs he has and get 87 caps and counting for your national side if you only effect a game "a handful of times" in 5 and a half years, particularly when you look at some of the quality he has kept out.