[stevoc]

It's just a guess of course. It could be more and it could be less. I'm simply comparing United's performances minus-Pogba plus-Fellaini to United's performances minus both Pogba and Fellaini. United looked really poor without both, but looked decent when Fellaini was covering for Pogba.

It might even be the case that Fellaini isn't very good, but he's great under Mourinho's system, and without him the system works very poorly, making Fellaini stand out.

Now we'll just wait for the haters to scream "so Mourinho's system depends on a Fellaini?! Mourinho out!!"

Fair enough that i agree with, no one can say for sure we would definitely have had more points with Fellaini playing. Personally i think we might have did better in the defeat to City on the set pieces we conceded on, but again with Fellaini in the side we might have conceded through other means. Same with the draws vs Leicester and Burnley but again we could have just as easily conceded via other methods. Theres just no way to know.

Fellaini is a good player when used correctly, he's not pretty to watch for the most part but an effective tool. Having said he has become wildly overrated by some on here and his importance and impact on the team overstated recently in my opinion.

 

[Roboc7]

That's not true. He started every game he was healthy while Pogba was out. Then he was rushed back into action without a single training session once he was medically cleared again. And today, he was the first sub on, ahead of Herrera (another mid) and Rashford.

He won MoTM his first game without Pogba, and was the highest or joint-highest rated player in the subsequent two matches. Had he not been injured while Pogba was out, Man City's points lead would be half what it is today.

If your complaint is that he can't dislodge Pogba or Matic from the starting lineup, then that's some high standard you've set.

He played well today, and it was sorely needed because of how hapless the reset of the squad looked (mids and attackers).

Under LVG and Moyes he was regularly starting but under Mourinho he never will be. He is the new Obi Mikel and a new cm will be brought in so that will decrease his chances of starting even more.

If mourinho rated him that highly it wouldn’t have taken an ordinary injury for Pogba for him to start a game in the league. Mourinho doesn’t want him in his starting eleven, Moyes and LVG did.

The idea he would have halved the gap is total nonsense, if he has been injured all season we would be no worse off. If he had been fit probably be in similar position maybe slightly better or worse off.

 

[eat_grass]

Fair enough that i agree with, no one can say for sure we would definitely have had more points with Fellaini playing. Personally i think we might have did better in the defeat to City on the set pieces we conceded on, but again with Fellaini in the side we might have conceded through other means. Same with the draws vs Leicester and Burnley but again we could have just as easily conceded via other methods. Theres just no way to know.

Yeah, I've seen a lot of arguments like that: "in this specific situation where we fecked up, Fellaini would have helped," etc. But that's not how I'm judging it. I'm basing it off of his being the MoTM winner, and highest or joint-highest rated player in each game Pogba was out and he started. That's not a fluke. We're not just talking about "oh he did okay in a handful of situations while filling in for Pogba." He was essentially the best player on the pitch (judged by ratings). So, extrapolating, being without United's best player (Pogba) and United's highest-rated player (Fellaini) must have had a negative effect on results.

Fellaini is a good player when used correctly, he's not pretty to watch for the most part but an effective tool. Having said he has become wildly overrated by some on here and his importance and impact on the team overstated recently in my opinion.

It's possible that he's now being overrated, including by me. But when was the last time Fellaini did something that cost the team (aside from his too-cute back-heel attempt against Burnely)? Sure, most of his recent contribution has been of the "steady the ship, don't do anything rash" variety, but I think much of the negativity he gets from fans is still based on his glaring mistakes early on in his United career -- which he's moved on from.

 

[eat_grass]

Under LVG and Moyes he was regularly starting but under Mourinho he never will be. He is the new Obi Mikel and a new cm will be brought in so that will decrease his chances of starting even more.

He can't get ahead of Pogba and Matic in the pecking order. Which other teams' backup mid could do that? If LVG or Moyes had Pogba and Matic, Fellaini wouldn't have started then either.

If mourinho rated him that highly it wouldn’t have taken an ordinary injury for Pogba for him to start a game in the league. Mourinho doesn’t want him in his starting eleven, Moyes and LVG did.

An ordinary injury to United's best player? It took losing United's best player for him to get starts, and that's a knock on him somehow?

The idea he would have halved the gap is total nonsense, if he has been injured all season we would be no worse off. If he had been fit probably be in similar position maybe slightly better or worse off.

Okay, so instead of Fellaini winning MoTM (for scoring two goals) and being highest rated in the other matches, Herrera or someone else would have done it instead and United would have been no worse off? That argument makes no sense.

 

[Kapardin]

Will start against Spurs, most likely. Expecting a 3 man midfield. Yeovil too, since he hasn't had much game-time.

 

[Roboc7]

He can't get ahead of Pogba and Matic in the pecking order. Which other teams' backup mid could do that? If LVG or Moyes had Pogba and Matic, Fellaini wouldn't have started then either.



An ordinary injury to United's best player? It took losing United's best player for him to get starts, and that's a knock on him somehow?



Okay, so instead of Fellaini winning MoTM (for scoring two goals) and being highest rated in the other matches, Herrera or someone else would have done it instead and United would have been no worse off? That argument makes no sense.

Not picking no him which is what you seem to think, Mourinho bought better players so he doesn’t have to play Fellaini, that’s a fact and it sums up what mourinho really thinks of him. That’s probably why he won’t sign his contract.

This is the best the team has done since SAF left and the least Fellaini has played. He isn’t someone who has a big impact and won’t be missed much if he leaves.

 

[eat_grass]

Not picking no him which is what you seem to think, Mourinho bought better players so he doesn’t have to play Fellaini, that’s a fact and it sums up what mourinho really thinks of him. That’s probably why he won’t sign his contract.

This is the best the team has done since SAF left and the least Fellaini has played. He isn’t someone who has a big impact and won’t be missed much if he leaves.

He's literally said the opposite every chance he's had. I've never heard Mourinho praise another United player more than he praises Fellaini. He said it would be easier for Besiktas to sign Mourinho as manager than it would be for Mourinho to sanction a transfer of Fellaini. And you're saying he "really thinks" the opposite of him.

Fellaini apparently isn't good enough (in Mourinho's system at least) to supplant someone of Matic's quality (not world-class, but an exception talent (current form notwithstanding)) or of Pogba's quality (world-class). That's a pretty high standard, not evidence that Fellaini isn't good.

His actual performances while filling in for Pogba are all the proof you should need to see that.

 

[Roboc7]

He's literally said the opposite every chance he's had. I've never heard Mourinho praise another United player more than he praises Fellaini. He said it would be easier for Besiktas to sign Mourinho as manager than it would be for Mourinho to sanction a transfer of Fellaini. And you're saying he "really thinks" the opposite of him.

Fellaini apparently isn't good enough (in Mourinho's system at least) to supplant someone of Matic's quality (not world-class, but an exception talent (current form notwithstanding)) or of Pogba's quality (world-class). That's a pretty high standard, not evidence that Fellaini isn't good.

His actual performances while filling in for Pogba are all the proof you should need to see that.

Actions speak louder than words, shouldn’t believe everything that is said to the press. I’m not saying Mourinho doesn’t value him as a squad player, like he did Mikel at Chelsea. He will buy another midfielder in the summer whether Fellaini stays or not because he wants better players. If he rated Fellaini that highly he would start more often, truth is he is buttering Fellaini up so he will stay and be content being a bit part player. He won’t get the chances to start as often as he got when LVG and Moyes were in charge.

Fellaini’s whole Utd career has been up and down and even at Everton his effectiveness fluctuated massively. Your just making an assumption based on a couple of games as opposed to his whole career.

 

[eat_grass]

Actions speak louder than words, shouldn’t believe everything that is said to the press. I’m not saying Mourinho doesn’t value him as a squad player, like he did Mikel at Chelsea. He will buy another midfielder in the summer whether Fellaini stays or not because he wants better players. If he rated Fellaini that highly he would start more often, truth is he is buttering Fellaini up so he will stay and be content being a bit part player. He won’t get the chances to start as often as he got when LVG and Moyes were in charge.

Fellaini’s whole Utd career has been up and down and even at Everton his effectiveness fluctuated massively. Your just making an assumption based on a couple of games as opposed to his whole career.

This year he's started every single game which Pogba was unavailable for and he was available for selection. That means the player keeping him out of the starting lineup is one of the best midfielders in the world -- he's being kept on the bench by a 90m-rated player. He's not Mikel at Chelsea ("the human victory cigar"). He's a crucial tactical tool that Mourinho uses whenever his world-class mid isn't available (and once even sat Matic in place of Fellaini). Mourinho's been praising him since pre-season, so it has nothing to do with trying to cajole him into signing a new contract.

My judgment of Fellaini's value to the club isn't based on his whole United career, or his games with Everton. It's based on what he's done for the team when selected this year. Two MoTM awards, being rated higher than Pogba in the lone game they started together, and being rated higher than Matic in the fourth game he's started.

He's outshown his colleges when he's given starts. That's not a subjective argument: it's the actual stats.

 

[AR87]

This year he's started every single game which Pogba was unavailable for and he was available for selection. That means the player keeping him out of the starting lineup is one of the best midfielders in the world -- he's being kept on the bench by a 90m-rated player. He's not Mikel at Chelsea ("the human victory cigar"). He's a crucial tactical tool that Mourinho uses whenever his world-class mid isn't available (and once even sat Matic in place of Fellaini). Mourinho's been praising him since pre-season, so it has nothing to do with trying to cajole him into signing a new contract.

My judgment of Fellaini's value to the club isn't based on his whole United career, or his games with Everton. It's based on what he's done for the team when selected this year. Two MoTM awards, being rated higher than Pogba in the lone game they started together, and being rated higher than Matic in the fourth game he's started.

He's outshown his colleges when he's given starts. That's not a subjective argument: it's the actual stats.

He's also routinely selected as the first player to be substituted on, usually to provide more solidity and control in midfield and to allow Pogba to roam forward more freely on the counter. It's clear Mourinho rates him.

 

[eat_grass]

He's also routinely selected as the first player to be substituted on, usually to provide more solidity and control in midfield and to allow Pogba to roam forward more freely on the counter. It's clear Mourinho rates him.

Yep, good point.

I can understand people wanting to replace him with someone that's even better, but I don't understand how people can claim he has little or no value.

 

[Foxbatt]

Of course he has value. Everyone hates playing against him as most players would say. He is awkward and big and makes a nuisance of himself. His chest is like velcro and he is very dangerous in the air.
To be a regular player for Belgium he has to be more than an ordinary player. He is going not because he is being on the bench on most games but this would be his last big pay packet and United will not give him what other clubs would give him.

 

[NK86]

This year he's started every single game which Pogba was unavailable for and he was available for selection. That means the player keeping him out of the starting lineup is one of the best midfielders in the world -- he's being kept on the bench by a 90m-rated player. He's not Mikel at Chelsea ("the human victory cigar"). He's a crucial tactical tool that Mourinho uses whenever his world-class mid isn't available (and once even sat Matic in place of Fellaini). Mourinho's been praising him since pre-season, so it has nothing to do with trying to cajole him into signing a new contract.

My judgment of Fellaini's value to the club isn't based on his whole United career, or his games with Everton. It's based on what he's done for the team when selected this year. Two MoTM awards, being rated higher than Pogba in the lone game they started together, and being rated higher than Matic in the fourth game he's started.

He's outshown his colleges when he's given starts. That's not a subjective argument: it's the actual stats.

You do realize that MoTM awards are literally subjective and have zilch to do with facts. It completely depends on how a person perceives any given performance.

 

[eat_grass]

You do realize that MoTM awards are literally subjective and have zilch to do with facts. It completely depends on how a person perceives any given performance.

Um, no. I linked to whoscored.com's match reports, which use a host of actual statistics to measure a player's performance / rating. And since the same metrics are used for each player on the pitch, you get a legitimate comparison of their performances.

The Caf's MoTMs are purely subjective, of course

 

[NK86]

Um, no. I linked to whoscored.com's match reports, which use a host of actual statistics to measure a player's performance / rating. And since the same metrics are used for each player on the pitch, you get a legitimate comparison of their performances.

The Caf's MoTMs are purely subjective, of course

Fair play in that case as I have not gone through the whoscored ratings. Fellaini is a decent player, but the drop in quality from Pogba to Fellaini is far too big. We need to upgrade very quick. If he is happy with the squad player role and what we are offering in terms of contract, I would be fine with him staying but if it's a choice between giving him what he wants or getting one or two younger player(s) with higher potential, I will choose the latter every time.

 

[eat_grass]

Fellaini is a decent player, but the drop in quality from Pogba to Fellaini is far too big. We need to upgrade very quick. If he is happy with the squad player role and what we are offering in terms of contract, I would be fine with him staying but if it's a choice between giving him what he wants or getting one or two younger player(s) with higher potential, I will choose the latter every time.

Hard to argue against any of that. I guess I just have a soft spot for the big, gangling Afro'd man. Maybe it's the look of passion and determination in his profile picture above.

 

[devilish]

Has he left yet?

 

[BarstoolProphet]

I now want him to stay and have a squad player role.

 

[stevoc]

Yeah, I've seen a lot of arguments like that: "in this specific situation where we fecked up, Fellaini would have helped," etc. But that's not how I'm judging it. I'm basing it off of his being the MoTM winner, and highest or joint-highest rated player in each game Pogba was out and he started. That's not a fluke. We're not just talking about "oh he did okay in a handful of situations while filling in for Pogba." He was essentially the best player on the pitch (judged by ratings). So, extrapolating, being without United's best player (Pogba) and United's highest-rated player (Fellaini) must have had a negative effect on results.

I can't help but think you are reading way too much into 2-3 good performances from Fellaini. He was good in those matches but i doubt he would have continued that form all season. Lets remember he started out last year very well as a defensive midfielder but after 4-5 games fizzled out and started getting exposed in the position.

It's possible that he's now being overrated, including by me. But when was the last time Fellaini did something that cost the team (aside from his too-cute back-heel attempt against Burnely)? Sure, most of his recent contribution has been of the "steady the ship, don't do anything rash" variety, but I think much of the negativity he gets from fans is still based on his glaring mistakes early on in his United career -- which he's moved on from.

He's barely played this season but last year he gave away silly penalties vs Watford and Everton. And made bad mistakes that allowed Everton and Anderlect to equalize and get draws against United. Both of those latter mistakes were from crosses so he's not the aerial defensive rock some believe him to be.

 

[eat_grass]

I can't help but think you are reading way too much into 2-3 good performances from Fellaini.

It could be. (It was four, though ).

He was good in those matches but i doubt he would have continued that form all season.

Yeah, he probably wouldn't have continued the MoTM-winning trend, but the drop in production from Pogba to Herrera was much steeper than it would have been from Pogba to Fellaini, I think. And that makes a difference in the table.

 

[AR87]

The reasons I want him to stay is that if he leaves it likely forces us to add 2 in midfield with Carrick also retiring and I believe Fellaini is an extremely unique and useful squad option. If we can keep Fellaini on a 2+1 deal it would be good for our transfer plans this summer and giving us a year or two to identify a quality long term replacement for the squad.

 

[Oneunited26]

I really hope we let fellaini goes, he's had a good run here but we need to evolve here and move on and get better players in his place. Its a weakness in Jose's game to use the long ball when fellaini is in the team, take that away and we looking to play better football. You replace fellaini with an upgrade who can not only walk into the united 11, but rotate between matic and pogba, rest one of the 2 and we don't see the huge downgrade fellaini is over pogba. We already have herrera who can come in do a job, we what we missing is a top class CM who can challenge pogba and matic, and also not only add depth but replace matic in a starting 11 who does need a rest from time to time has he gets older

 

[bosnian_red]

Felt like he played a lot more then he has done this season so far. 563 minutes between the Champions league and the Premier League, a 10 minute sub appearance in the FA cup, and that's it. Just 4 starts in all comps, 10 sub appearances. People seem to remember the 2 week period when Pogba got injured and he started those 3 games in a row and did really well tbf, but other then that, he's been a non-factor this season. He's definitely off I'd say, though I think he himself just wants to go rather then Mourinho wanting to get rid. Will be interesting to see how Mourinho treats it knowing he's leaving, if he just shuts him out (like he seems to have done), or if he'll play a role in the squad.

 

[Loublaze]

I now want him to stay and have a squad player role.

He won't get it on the wages he's asking for.

 

[haram]

No one knows where he was vs Yeovil?

 

[IrishRedDevil]

Hello, good bye.

 

[Steven Seagull]

Man of the match

 

[Siorac]

Was that an injury? If not... weirdest sub ever.

 

[Holters]

Wow, Mourinho looked like he was really pissed, but to substitute a player after 5-7 minutes? Surely Fellaini must be injured?

 

[prateik]

Hardly a crock. Unfortunate for us and the player. Nothing more. Not the problem today.

 

[Gazautd18]

He's off.

 

[VeevaVee]

He went straight down the tunnel. Almost certainly injured.

 

[elnorte]

Wow, Mourinho looked like he was really pissed, but to substitute a player after 5-7 minutes? Surely Fellaini must be injured?

Guess we'll find out soon enough. Unless Jose refuses to answer of course.

 

[Bubz27]

Has to be a knock?

 

[Robbie Boy]

Is this his Matic moment for us.

 

[Rockets Redglare]

He went straight down the tunnel. Almost certainly injured.

He was hobbling quite badly shortly after he came on.

 

[Pexbo]

If he is injured you can understand why Mourinho might be pissed. If it was something he was carrying we could have had Herrera on instead and Rashford’s fresh legs.

 

[dannyrhinos89]

Noticed he was limping earlier it’s a definite injury.

 

[tuk3r]

/me Fellaini comes on, sticks a cheeky tenner on him for the next goal, Fellaini goes off.

 

[GE]

That’s what you get for pissing around with the contract we offered you. Sign it or feck of you useless prick!