[Ole's_toe_poke]

When we hit our stretch of form toward the end of last season Fellaini was our best player

That was like 3 games. Big effin deal.

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

He should play as an attacking midfielder but a single DM set up doesn't work with Schneiderlin like it did with Carrick. So he should be on the bench and playing as an impact sub. Fellaini playing deeper is tactically one of the biggest reasons for our poor form, luckily Van Gaal seems to have woken up to the fact by withdrawing him at half time.

 

[Walrus]

Fellaini supporters can do one, honestly. There's a long standing tradition of a select few of his bandwagoners frequently taking pot shots at other players in this very thread just to make a case for him. Discuss his merits, and pipe down. No need to blab about Ander in his thread or here just to prove a point about Marouane the donkey. Do people incessantly bring up Fellaini in Mata/ Darmian/ Rooney/ Memphis's threads? No they don't, and for good reason. You don't need to put down one player in another one's thread to fortify your argument. Do it on the basis of that individual player's record/ accomplishments/ perceived talent level.

/rant. And nah, you don't need to dig up posts from the other threads. The primary issue is with the frequency.

You know I am more than happy to have a long and sensible discussion with you on here Invictus, but I find that is impossible with Fellaini because by and large, his critics (yourself included frankly) simply exaggerate his flaws, dismiss his merits and find any excuse possible to scapegoat him. I am only bothering to reply to you here because I know you to be a very good poster who is actually worth discussing something with normally. Frankly it saddens me to see posts from you like the one I quoted, silly as that may sound.

The fact that (when last I checked) Fellaini had the lowest rating from today's game is a case in point. Januzaj came on and did nothing except concede a soft free kick which led to their goal (that cost us the game). Lingard had another game where he contributed nothing, Schneiderlin likewise. Did Fellaini actually perform worse than those players? Were we a worse team when he was on the pitch in the first half? The goal conceded and general performance suggests otherwise. This isnt a case of bringing up other players to justify Fellaini's performance - which was nothing special today by any means - but rather to draw attention to the fact (and it is a fact) that Fellaini gets an incredibly harsh deal from most United fans - being cheered off the pitch by the "fans" is another suitable example. It is to highlight the extreme and disproportionate amount of criticism and plain abuse that he gets on here, despite usually being (at the very least) no worse than 2-3 other players in any given game.

Fans are upset because we lost the game - myself included. Was it Fellaini's fault? Of course not. The statistics bandied around last week about our winning % with/without Fellaini were deemed by some as irrefutable evidence that he shouldnt be playing. Well today, we played 45 minutes with him where we were quite bad and it finished 0-0, we then played 45 minutes without him, and were also quite bad, and it finished 0-1. This doesnt mean that Fellaini was single handedly responsible for our heroic shutting out of Southampton in the first half (yes, that is sarcasm), but it means that clearly he is not the root of all our problems as several here suggest.

The cherry on top is that the goal we eventually conceded was the exact situation that Fellaini has dealt with time and time again in recent weeks - a defensive set piece. As ever, football is not without a sense of irony.

 

[Woodzy]

What concerned me today is that Fellaini played no worse than he has in any other games this season, but LvG actually subbed him... at half time. It just reassures to me that LvG hasn't got a clue how to resolve this mess.

 

[Cheesy]

That was like 3 games. Big effin deal.

Aye, he's been riding on the crest of a wave in regards to that form for a long, long time. He was consistently better than he has been in his other two seasons in 2014/15, but his actual very good spell, wherein he looked like a genuinely very good footballer, was incredibly short-lived and not so coincidentally came at a period in which our side as a whole was playing very well. Or, in other words, he managed to do what Cleverley and Anderson did at the start of 2011/12.

 

[stevoc]

We never look to have a good control of centre midfield when he's playing. He puts himself about but he's rarely in sync with any of our other players on the pitch

Yeah that just about sums him up really. Puts shift in but he just doesn't have anything about him to be good enough in CM for a team like United. Still infuriating though how many times he fails to win a header for his size.

He seems a good lad and is an effective player in the right set-up, but having said that to be honest i am sick of watching this guy play. If i woke up tomorrow and find out we had sold him to China or something i wouldn't bat an eyelid. He just doesn't offer us anything that we really need.

 

[Cheesy]

Fellaini supporters can do one, honestly. There's a long standing tradition of a select few of his bandwagoners frequently taking pot shots at other players in this very thread just to make a case for him. Discuss his merits, and pipe down. No need to blab about Ander in his thread or here just to prove a point about Marouane the donkey. Do people incessantly bring up Fellaini in Mata/ Darmian/ Rooney/ Memphis's threads? No they don't, and for good reason. You don't need to put down one player in another one's thread to fortify your argument. Do it on the basis of that individual player's record/ accomplishments/ perceived talent level.

/rant. And nah, you don't need to dig up posts from the other threads. The primary issue is with the frequency.

There's an annoying recurrence that whenever Fellaini is criticised, his supporters will often start to claim that he's being scapegoated. A scapegoat implies that he's being criticised at the expense of others, which is evidently nonsensical when Rooney, Darmian and Depay have also all come in for heavy criticism, with even players like Schweinsteiger, Schneiderlin, Mata, Lingard and others all getting criticism at times of poor form. There's a tendency to make it look as if Fellaini is being singled out, when in reality it's just not the case.

When we hit our stretch of form toward the end of last season Fellaini was our best player. Maybe 2nd best with De Gea but whatever, he contributed more than Herrera. Not saying Herrera was bad, he just wasn't as pivotal. So in my opinion Fellaini has had a period of football that is superior to anything Herrera has produced with us. So he arguably has more business being here than Herrera.

This will be a pointless discussion though because we clearly have very different views on both players.

Meh, he was excellent, yeah, but he was one of many good players. De Gea was consistently our best player. Herrera was very good. Smalling began to look like a top defender. Blind had a very good spell at left-back. Carrick found some of his best form again. Fellaini was excellent, but he was a good performer in a team that was playing incredibly well, like Cleverley or Anderson in 2011/12. And like them, he's been suspiciously poor in comparison when we're not playing well. He had a good 2014/15 season, but it gets massively overplayed when his very best form happened to come at a time when the team as a whole was playing well. He's never really consistently delivered when the chips have been down.

 

[Man of Leisure]

I am only bothering to reply to you here because I know you to be a very good poster who is actually worth discussing something with normally. Frankly it saddens me to see posts from you like the one I quoted, silly as that may sound.

FFS, just when you thought Walrus couldn't get more cringeworthy. Have a word with yourself, you silly girl.

 

[iKeano]

Fans cheering his substitution was appalling. Whether he's good enough or not, he always gives it a good go on the pitch.

When did giving it "a good go" become enough to play for Utd?!
I'm totally shit at football but would bust a gut to play for Utd. I can only hope you'd share the same blind faith if I was ridiculously part of the Utd squad!

 

[ManUtd1999]

We never look to have a good control of centre midfield when he's playing. He puts himself about but he's rarely in sync with any of our other players on the pitch

We didn't have a control either when was out. To the contrary, we were worse.

Fellaini was benched a lot in the start of the season. Why then he found his place back in the team? Well, because others didn't perform and LVG was trying to make some changes. That's what he tried today with Mata, but what did Mata contribute today (or in general this season)? Not much really. Thing is, Mata and Herrera are undoubtedly better players than Fellaini, but when it comes to the bottom line they are not contributing more. We barely score goals with and without Fellaini in the team.

What people like Walrus and myself are saying is simple: he hasn't been great today or this season. But who has (barring Martial, maybe)? Why then keep criticizing him that much when he is not the problem? In this respect:

Fellaini didn't start in our 0-0 draws with Newcastle, City, Palace, PSV and Chelsea.
Fellaini didn't start in our losses to Swansea, PSV and Arsenal.
Fellaini didn't start in our 1-1 draws with CSKA and Leicester.

See, many games that ended without a win without Fellaini starting (sometimes not even playing as a sub). When you look at the full picture, it's really bad. The team is just playing badly!

 

[Deleted member 78215]

No he doesn't. He's simply lazy. Just strolls around when United don't have the ball.

Nonsense.

That is all. I'm not saying he's a good player, even, but ostracising him because he's not good enough is plain pathetic.

 

[Deleted member 78215]

When did giving it "a good go" become enough to play for Utd?!
I'm totally shit at football but would bust a gut to play for Utd. I can only hope you'd share the same blind faith if I was ridiculously part of the Utd squad!

Where did I say he was good enough?

I said, and quite clearly so, that practically ridiculing a player because he's not deemed good enough is a prick move.

 

[Invictus]

ou know I am more than happy to have a long and sensible discussion with you on here Invictus, but I find that is impossible with Fellaini because by and large, his critics (yourself included frankly) simply exaggerate his flaws, dismiss his merits and find any excuse possible to scapegoat him. I am only bothering to reply to you here because I know you to be a very good poster who is actually worth discussing something with normally. Frankly it saddens me to see posts from you like the one I quoted, silly as that may sound.

I don't even post in this thread anymore mate (the last one was probably the first in months IIRC). So not exactly space-goating anyone to be fair. Merely pointing out that everything doesn't have to be qualified relative to other players in a faint-praise kind of way. Hypothetical scenario - Memphis had a bad game, but marginally better than Marouane... Do people routinely qualify an assessment with - 'well atleast he was better than Fellaini so that's something to feel good about'? Nope. Wayne, similar. One wouldn't find a lot of comments from his backers (or whatever) to the effect of - 'yep he was crap, but atleast not as much as Fellaini'? Very rarely, if ever. But, no time is wasted in pointing out other bad players if Fellaini isn't the worst of the lot. It just seems weird in a counter compensatory reverse bias sort of way is all.

The fact that (when last I checked) Fellaini had the lowest rating from today's game is a case in point. Januzaj came on and did nothing except concede a soft free kick which led to their goal (that cost us the game). Lingard had another game where he contributed nothing, Schneiderlin likewise. Did Fellaini actually perform worse than those players? Were we a worse team when he was on the pitch in the first half? The goal conceded and general performance suggests otherwise. This isnt a case of bringing up other players to justify Fellaini's performance - which was nothing special today by any means - but rather to draw attention to the fact (and it is a fact) that Fellaini gets an incredibly harsh deal from most United fans - being cheered off the pitch by the "fans" is another suitable example. It is to highlight the extreme and disproportionate amount of criticism and plain abuse that he gets on here, despite usually being (at the very least) no worse than 2-3 other players in any given game.

See this is exactly what I'm talking about mate. So, the criticism is best accounted for by dragging other players through the mud too? Take the higher road? You think Fellaini gets a disproportionate level of grief, and that's fair enough. But why do you feel compelled to name Januzaj or Lingard or whoever? People are less harsh on youngsters (one of whom had just returned from loan, and the other from injury). Maybe that's the reason for it. Maybe others get a pass (relative term since almost everyone incurs our wrath these days - including the likes of Schneiderlin, Darmian and co. - who are more recent additions, compared with Fellaini who has been here since 2013) for aesthetic reasons (subjective as that may sound). Also, there's no reason to highlight match-going fans with " ". Those people pay up a good amount of money to support their team, they are well versed with the ethos of the club and the type of gifted players we had in the past, a lot of them have been supporting the club from close quarters all their lives, and they are exceedingly displeased (what with us laboring to score a grand total of 1 goal in 12 first halves - or some ridiculous number like that), and they can cheer/ jeer whoever they please, and they certainly don't need anymore permission or judgement.

 

[RedFish]

He's like Marouane, he's just ill suited to United, but he'd be a decent player in the right set up.

 

[ZDwyr]

That was like 3 games. Big effin deal.

It was more than that. Even in the Chelsea match we lost he was one of our better performers.

 

[MDFC Manager]

I don't actually think he's lazy. I think he's just completely clueless as to where to position himself. So he just runs slowly, hoping he's not doing anything wrong. Plus he's a really bad ball-watcher and a really slow-thinker, so he's genuinely just two seconds behind play half the time.

He should play as an attacking midfielder but a single DM set up doesn't work with Schneiderlin like it did with Carrick. So he should be on the bench and playing as an impact sub. Fellaini playing deeper is tactically one of the biggest reasons for our poor form, luckily Van Gaal seems to have woken up to the fact by withdrawing him at half time.

Spot on guys. He's absolutely woeful as a central midfielder. One of the absolute worst in the league.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Not good enough for United. Expect him to be sold in the summer.

 

[Snow]

He simply doesn't fit the team. He doesn't fit the way we play now and he certainly doesn't fit how we all want United to play. He's not a likable fellow on the pitch either wit his studs up challenges, needless fouls and elbows flying everywhere. The Jackson 5 are long gone despite how much he wants to cling to that era. Lastly, he's Moyes' only summer transfer and the epitome of SAF's transition onto other managers which frankly has been dreadful so far.

If not for footballing reasons he should be shipped on for sentimental reasons alone.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

He simply doesn't fit the team. He doesn't fit the way we play now and he certainly doesn't fit how we all want United to play. He's not a likable fellow on the pitch either wit his studs up challenges, needless fouls and elbows flying everywhere. The Jackson 5 are long gone despite how much he wants to cling to that era. Lastly, he's Moyes' only summer transfer and the epitome of SAF's transition onto other managers which frankly has been dreadful so far.

If not for footballing reasons he should be shipped on for sentimental reasons alone.

There's more than enough footballing reasons, though.

His touch is average, his passing is poor, he's slow and isn't a good defender.

Is tall and can control ball with chest, shouldn't be enough to be at Manchester United. The standards need to rise.

 

[Varun]

The only role he can do well is the pseudo striker playing as the AM thing he was doing last season. As a CM, he isn't good enough for the likes of Everton or Liverpool, let alone a team with bigger ambitions. We have a bang average player and play him in a role which brings out the worst in him.

 

[Nighteyes]

There's an annoying recurrence that whenever Fellaini is criticised, his supporters will often start to claim that he's being scapegoated. A scapegoat implies that he's being criticised at the expense of others, which is evidently nonsensical when Rooney, Darmian and Depay have also all come in for heavy criticism, with even players like Schweinsteiger, Schneiderlin, Mata, Lingard and others all getting criticism at times of poor form. There's a tendency to make it look as if Fellaini is being singled out, when in reality it's just not the case.

He is being scapegoated. Absolutely no doubt. Also, when Mata is shite, it's because we don't have Herrera in there or because we don't have Usain Bolt up top. When Herrera is shite it's because Mata is not there. When Depay is shite it's because Shaw is injured or he's playing through the middle. When Schneiderlin is shite it's because LVG has instructed him to never ever do anything productive with the ball or because he's playing alongside Fellaini. When Schweinstriger plays shite it's because LVG has no clue how to use him.

When Fellaini plays shite, it's because he's fecking shite and should be sold asap and is responsible for all the ills befalling Manchester United. Also, it's now fashionable to pretend he only had 3 good games last season.

But it's obvious people have had a thing against him from the moment we signed him and won't pass a chance to have digs at him. People were giddy when LVG signed on as the manager and there were multiple essays from serial bullshitters (You know who you are!) outrageously well versed in LVG's philosophy explaining in painful details on how Fellaini wouldn't fit LVG's teams. Ten months later Fellani was a key player in us getting top 4. Guess that must have hit some of them quite hard...

 

[Loublaze]

Sell already.

 

[Kostur]

He simply doesn't fit the team. He doesn't fit the way we play now and he certainly doesn't fit how we all want United to play. He's not a likable fellow on the pitch either wit his studs up challenges, needless fouls and elbows flying everywhere. The Jackson 5 are long gone despite how much he wants to cling to that era. Lastly, he's Moyes' only summer transfer and the epitome of SAF's transition onto other managers which frankly has been dreadful so far.

If not for footballing reasons he should be shipped on for sentimental reasons alone.

Agree, we should sell all of LVG's signings as well so we actually pretend we've never let Ferguson go, let's get Giggsy and Scholesy back on the pitch.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

The only role he can do well is the pseudo striker playing as the AM thing he was doing last season. As a CM, he isn't good enough for the likes of Everton or Liverpool, let alone a team with bigger ambitions. We have a bang average player and play him in a role which brings out the worst in him.

It's because LVG hates playing Herrera as a central midfielder, which is in itself bizarre. Herrera as a midfielder and Fellaini further makes a whole lot more sense to me.

 

[Kostur]

Fellaini supporters can do one, honestly. There's a long standing tradition of a select few of his bandwagoners frequently taking pot shots at other players in this very thread just to make a case for him. Discuss his merits, and pipe down. No need to blab about Ander in his thread or here just to prove a point about Marouane the donkey. Do people incessantly bring up Fellaini in Mata/ Darmian/ Rooney/ Memphis's threads? No they don't, and for good reason. You don't need to put down one player in another one's thread to fortify your argument. Do it on the basis of that individual player's record/ accomplishments/ perceived talent level.

/rant. And nah, you don't need to dig up posts from the other threads. The primary issue is with the frequency.

Is 'he's fecking shit, sell him' discussing his performances?

Herrera is being brought up in his thread by the people you tell to do one because he's constantly brought up in 'why is Herrera not playing but this sack of shit is' arguments. At the same time our darling is playing just as shit as the oaf this season and escapes criticism for some reason. The anti-Fellaini bias was perfectly illustrated by bosnian_red (no offence mate, got nothing personal against you obviously) in that sense that we shouldn't criticise our players because they've been Vangalised unless they're Fellaini/Rooney/whoever the next escape goat is because they're ultimately shit and there's no help and we should sell.

Constantly peddling 'useless, get rid' bullshit in this thread and not liking a player are two different things. It's fine not to like a player, talking constant shit is not. It's hilarious to watch how precious people get when you apply the same rules to, e.g. already mentioned, Herrera.

@Akash pretty much summed it up above.

 

[Varun]

It's because LVG hates playing Herrera as a central midfielder, which is in itself bizarre. Herrera as a midfielder and Fellaini further makes a whole lot more sense to me.

Yup. Unfortunately someone like Herrera seems to be classified as too much of a risk taker for his CM. Ridiculous really.

 

[Akshay]

He is being scapegoated. Absolutely no doubt. Also, when Mata is shite, it's because we don't have Herrera in there or because we don't have Usain Bolt up top. When Herrera is shite it's because Mata is not there. When Depay is shite it's because Shaw is injured or he's playing through the middle. When Schneiderlin is shite it's because LVG has instructed him to never ever do anything productive with the ball or because he's playing alongside Fellaini. When Schweinstriger plays shite it's because LVG has no clue how to use him.

When Fellaini plays shite, it's because he's fecking shite and should be sold asap and is responsible for all the ills befalling Manchester United. Also, it's now fashionable to pretend he only had 3 good games last season.

But it's obvious people have had a thing against him from the moment we signed him and won't pass a chance to have digs at him. People were giddy when LVG signed on as the manager and there were multiple essays from serial bullshitters (You know who you are!) outrageously well versed in LVG's philosophy explaining in painful details on how Fellaini wouldn't fit LVG's teams. Ten months later Fellani was a key player in us getting top 4. Guess that must have hit some of them quite hard...

The thing about Fellaini is, can you ever see him as being more than a plan B? With all the other players you mentioned people have hope they will develop / find previous form and become fixtures in the team. It doesn't excuse poor performances obviously, but people want to give the likes of Mata/Herrera/Memphis/Schmidfield the benefit of the doubt in the hopes of reaping the reward one day. Fellaini doesn't provide that.

 

[Nighteyes]

The thing about Fellaini is, can you ever see him as being more than a plan B? With all the other players you mentioned people have hope they will develop / find previous form and become fixtures in the team. It doesn't excuse poor performances obviously, but people want to give the likes of Mata/Herrera/Memphis/Schmidfield the benefit of the doubt in the hopes of reaping the reward one day. Fellaini doesn't provide that.

That's not the point I was making. fwiw I don't even think Fellaini is very good but there's clear double standards in the way he's judged compared to everyone else and what's more bizarre is this is coming off the back of a season where he was a key player in finishing top 4. Herrers has been dogshit yet all I see in this thread on how it's everyone else's fault he's not playing well. Fellaini never gets that benefit of doubt. When he has a bad game, the knives and pitchforks are out immediately.

 

[Akshay]

That's not the point I was making. fwiw I don't even think Fellaini is very good but there's clear double standards in the way he's judged compared to everyone else and what's more bizarre is this is coming off the back of a season where he was a key player in finishing top 4. Herrers has been dogshit yet all I see in this thread on how it's everyone else's fault he's not playing well. Fellaini never gets that benefit of doubt. When he has a bad game, the knives and pitchforks are out immediately.

I agree about the double standards, I'm trying to explain why that is. People want to see the best in Herrera because he's the kind of player if he came good would be a regular fixture for us. There are few who actively want to see Fellaini play well since he isn't the player they want in the team long term anyway.

 

[Sultan]

Each player should be judged on their individual merits, displays, age, potential, etc...

Anyway, Fellaini...He's not fit to play for United.

 

[dichinero]

That's not the point I was making. fwiw I don't even think Fellaini is very good but there's clear double standards in the way he's judged compared to everyone else and what's more bizarre is this is coming off the back of a season where he was a key player in finishing top 4. Herrers has been dogshit yet all I see in this thread on how it's everyone else's fault he's not playing well. Fellaini never gets that benefit of doubt. When he has a bad game, the knives and pitchforks are out immediately.

I don't think it's double standards when you consider that Fellaini should be regarded as one of the most experienced midfielders in the PL as opposed to Herrera who is just in his second season in England. Fellaini is almost 30, the average age for a midfielder in their prime. I think more should be expected of him. It's the same way Rooney will get less slack.from me than Depay or Lingard would. That is fair IMO.

 

[Acole9]

Times up for him here, he needs to be sold in the summer. He's more of a hindrance to us than anything.

 

[ZDwyr]

That's not the point I was making. fwiw I don't even think Fellaini is very good but there's clear double standards in the way he's judged compared to everyone else and what's more bizarre is this is coming off the back of a season where he was a key player in finishing top 4. Herrers has been dogshit yet all I see in this thread on how it's everyone else's fault he's not playing well. Fellaini never gets that benefit of doubt. When he has a bad game, the knives and pitchforks are out immediately.

It doesn't even have to be a bad game. He can have an average game and still they will come out.

Anyway I agree with a lot of what you are saying.

 

[Amar__]

It's funny how people who defend Fellaini here mention Herrera all the time despite Fellaini being hardly mentioned in the Herrera thread, especially because their strongest argument is that Herrera is defended a lot by saying he is poor because he plays alongside Fellaini. The other argument is that he isn't playing any worse than Herrera. Some irony.

Best to stay away from this thread.

 

[Walrus]

@Invictus

I understand what you are saying - but like I said in my previous post, the only reason I was bringing other players into it was to attempt to demonstrate how disproportional the amount of criticism/abuse Fellaini receives is (compared with others).

I cant speak for other posters, but for myself, I have resorted to using those arguments (ie ones involving other players) because quite simply it seems impossible to have a genuine discussion on Fellaini as a player with most of his critics here, because there always seems to be this irrational and blind hatred of the guy, such that even if he scored a hattrick people would be picking holes in his performances.

For whats its worth, and I have stated this before - I dont think Fellaini should be a starter for us in the current system. I liked him in the 4-3-3 last year but feel he lacks the positional discipline to play a holding role, and lacks the creativity to play as a #10. Fellaini, Herrera and a holding mid (Schneiderlin or Carrick) however does have the potential to be a very good/balanced midfield trio if deployed in the right way.

You asked to discuss Fellaini's merits, so I will bite and state what I think he brings to the team;

First and the most obvious thing is physicality. We can debate until the cows come home as to whether a team should or does require a physical presence, my opinion is that in the PL, virtually every title winning team has had a bit of bite/steel/strength. It was considered Arsenal's great weakness for many years that they lacked those qualities (along with a proper DM and Keeper) and that was what prevented them winning the league. Fellaini is an effective target for long balls and clearances when we need to (this doesnt mean that we should be playing hoofball, obviously), and is a strong asset when defending set pieces (again - if Fellaini had been on the pitch then I am not convinced that Southampton score that goal in the 87th minute yesterday).

When I talk about physicality I dont just mean height - I also mean a combative attitude. The game against Liverpool is a good recent example where Fellaini was frankly the only one in our midfield and attack who was prepared to stand up to the Scouse bullyboys like Lucas and Henderson. Without wanting to bring other players into it - I find it ridiculous that in the past we have praised other players (eg Rafael vs Tevez) for showing a bit of fight, especially in the derby games, but with Fellaini he gets roundly criticised by a lot of the fans for doing effectively the same thing.

While I am speaking of attitude, it bares mentioning that over his time at United Fellaini has taken a lot of stick from the fans. The fact that he came back last season and put in good performances consistently - becoming one of our best outfield players that season - shows that he has the right mentality and attitude to play at a top club. A lot of people seem to take this for granted, but we have seen time and time again players who are supremely technical gifted, but fail to make the grade. Ferguson wrote and spoke extensively about how important mentality was for him when recruiting players, and I firmly believe that when it comes to attitude/mentality, Fellaini is virtually a perfect example of having the right mindset; he doesnt give up, he doesnt go into his shell if things arent going well, he doesnt allow himself or the team to be bullied, he keeps battling until the last minute, he doesnt allow boos and jibes from the stands to affect him.

On a related topic to the above, Fellaini has also appeared to demonstrate that he is capable of carrying out the managers specific instructions very well. Whilst as fans we can never know with absolute certainty what goes on behind closed doors, I recall last season the clip in the West Brom game before Fellaini was brought on, where LVG was talking to him and clearly relaying instructions. Fellaini came on, delivered an excellent performance and scored a goal to level the game for us - he then started something like the next 8 games. He played roles including man-marking an opponent (Fabregas vs Chelsea, a game where Fellaini won MotM - and not in the fashionable "3 game streak" that the critics love to reference), playing high up the pitch as a target man or second striker, and the "inside left" position in our 4-3-3. The point here is simply that LVG has spoken plenty of times about how he likes players to be intelligent, that he likes them to make their own decisions on the pitch etc - and he appears to trust Fellaini in this capacity.

Next up is work rate. I find it utterly baffling that people in this thread have come out saying that Fellaini is lazy. I dont have statistics for this but would be very interested to see the amount of ground covered by players over 90 minutes, because the role Fellaini has been playing for us is essentially box-to-box, and one that requires a lot of running and energy. Fellaini presses the opponents back line (less so recently due to being deployed in a deeper role admittedly), presses the midfielders and defends a lot around our box. Furthermore, we have seen in recent weeks that Fellani has obviously been instructed at times to go back and assist the CBs - Blind in particular - at defending long balls or against physical strikers (this is an example of what I spoke about in the previous paragraph). It is noticeable to me how often Fellaini is back inside our penalty area to make defensive headers - easily moreso than our other midfielders. The notion that he is lazy is one that I find truly ludicrous, with this in mind.

While talking about footballing intelligence (again, something Fellaini is often criticised over), it is worth noting that Fellaini is a player who seems to know and appreciate his own limitations. He doesnt try to play 60-yard raking passes because it isnt his game. He gets criticised if he plays a sideways pass, but realistically if he has players like Herrera next to him, then surely it is a good decision to lay off the ball to a more creative player/better passer? There isnt anything wrong with this - it is in fact the same thing we used to see Michael Carrick do when he was alongside Paul Scholes - simply the acknowledgement that another player may be able to do more with the ball than you can. With that said I do not believe Fellaini is technically deficient at all. We keep seeing the old Bayern Munich clip getting roled out of Fellaini apparently running the ball out of play, and it is an area of his game which is once again exaggerated. Fellaini is not afraid to drive forward with the ball, he tends to play a simple passing game for the most part, but we have also seen him bust out some pirouettes and fancy flick-ons and backheels at times. You ask not to bring up other players - but consider someone like Valencia, who has managed to get to a club like United despite virtually not having a left foot, and having a trademark "shin buster" cross. Other examples exist, but the point here is simply that Fellaini is nowhere near as bad technically as many make him out to be - it is more that he tends to play a simple passing game and take the low risk options because he has more creative players alongside him.


I would like to conclude by saying that I do not believe that Fellaini is a future Ballon d'Or winner, nor do I believe he should be a regular starter for United in the current system. He is however, a valuable member of our squad, he has unique characteristics - some of which are sorely lacking amongst our other players, and has shown that he is able to be a very good player for a team at our level. The abuse and level of criticism he receives is completely unjustified and disproportionate to his actual performances, and that is reflected on the Caf by this thread and his match ratings.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

Was very poor on the ball today. But you have to remember that he won us the game vs liverpool and that we lost this game to a header, a situation that would have been greatly improved if he was on the pitch. Anyone who thinks he's on the pitch for his CM passing is nuts. He's on the pitch because of set plays, at both ends. He has played the worst football of his career with the ball at his feet these last few weeks though. Shouldn't be in the side until that improves dramatically

 

[Cheesy]

He is being scapegoated. Absolutely no doubt. Also, when Mata is shite, it's because we don't have Herrera in there or because we don't have Usain Bolt up top. When Herrera is shite it's because Mata is not there. When Depay is shite it's because Shaw is injured or he's playing through the middle. When Schneiderlin is shite it's because LVG has instructed him to never ever do anything productive with the ball or because he's playing alongside Fellaini. When Schweinstriger plays shite it's because LVG has no clue how to use him.

When Fellaini plays shite, it's because he's fecking shite and should be sold asap and is responsible for all the ills befalling Manchester United. Also, it's now fashionable to pretend he only had 3 good games last season.

But it's obvious people have had a thing against him from the moment we signed him and won't pass a chance to have digs at him. People were giddy when LVG signed on as the manager and there were multiple essays from serial bullshitters (You know who you are!) outrageously well versed in LVG's philosophy explaining in painful details on how Fellaini wouldn't fit LVG's teams. Ten months later Fellani was a key player in us getting top 4. Guess that must have hit some of them quite hard...

You're being massively selective here though. Certain posters will argue that Mata and Herrera playing poorly is due to other factors, while certain posters will argue it's just because they're not very good. A bit like with Fellaini; who has his detractors, but also has multiple posters willing to defend him. The concept that he's being scapegoated in order to save other players from criticism is utter nonsense, unless you want to argue that no one else on the forum is coming in for regular criticism.

And it's a bit rich when as @Invictus said, it's often Fellaini's supporters who will try to defend him by dragging others players into the mud.

 

[Cheesy]

It's funny how people who defend Fellaini here mention Herrera all the time despite Fellaini being hardly mentioned in the Herrera thread, especially because their strongest argument is that Herrera is defended a lot by saying he is poor because he plays alongside Fellaini. The other argument is that he isn't playing any worse than Herrera. Some irony.

Best to stay away from this thread.

Definitely. It gets incredibly tiresome, and is pretty much blatant fanboyism; wherein fans will ardently defend one player, even at the expense of others. It's impossible for them to make any criticism of Fellaini without a but, which often involves throwing someone else under the bus.

Was very poor on the ball today. But you have to remember that he won us the game vs liverpool and that we lost this game to a header, a situation that would have been greatly improved if he was on the pitch. Anyone who thinks he's on the pitch for his CM passing is nuts. He's on the pitch because of set plays, at both ends. He has played the worst football of his career with the ball at his feet these last few weeks though. Shouldn't be in the side until that improves dramatically

Which is a massive problem. For all he offers us with his heading (and it's not as much as it should be), we're losing out on a lot if we have a midfield player who isn't good enough as a passer. Even more so when our manager wants us to actually be a possession based team.

 

[dichinero]

@Invictus

I understand what you are saying - but like I said in my previous post, the only reason I was bringing other players into it was to attempt to demonstrate how disproportional the amount of criticism/abuse Fellaini receives is (compared with others).

I cant speak for other posters, but for myself, I have resorted to using those arguments (ie ones involving other players) because quite simply it seems impossible to have a genuine discussion on Fellaini as a player with most of his critics here, because there always seems to be this irrational and blind hatred of the guy, such that even if he scored a hattrick people would be picking holes in his performances.

For whats its worth, and I have stated this before - I dont think Fellaini should be a starter for us in the current system. I liked him in the 4-3-3 last year but feel he lacks the positional discipline to play a holding role, and lacks the creativity to play as a #10. Fellaini, Herrera and a holding mid (Schneiderlin or Carrick) however does have the potential to be a very good/balanced midfield trio if deployed in the right way.

You asked to discuss Fellaini's merits, so I will bite and state what I think he brings to the team;

First and the most obvious thing is physicality. We can debate until the cows come home as to whether a team should or does require a physical presence, my opinion is that in the PL, virtually every title winning team has had a bit of bite/steel/strength. It was considered Arsenal's great weakness for many years that they lacked those qualities (along with a proper DM and Keeper) and that was what prevented them winning the league. Fellaini is an effective target for long balls and clearances when we need to (this doesnt mean that we should be playing hoofball, obviously), and is a strong asset when defending set pieces (again - if Fellaini had been on the pitch then I am not convinced that Southampton score that goal in the 87th minute yesterday).

When I talk about physicality I dont just mean height - I also mean a combative attitude. The game against Liverpool is a good recent example where Fellaini was frankly the only one in our midfield and attack who was prepared to stand up to the Scouse bullyboys like Lucas and Henderson. Without wanting to bring other players into it - I find it ridiculous that in the past we have praised other players (eg Rafael vs Tevez) for showing a bit of fight, especially in the derby games, but with Fellaini he gets roundly criticised by a lot of the fans for doing effectively the same thing.

While I am speaking of attitude, it bares mentioning that over his time at United Fellaini has taken a lot of stick from the fans. The fact that he came back last season and put in good performances consistently - becoming one of our best outfield players that season - shows that he has the right mentality and attitude to play at a top club. A lot of people seem to take this for granted, but we have seen time and time again players who are supremely technical gifted, but fail to make the grade. Ferguson wrote and spoke extensively about how important mentality was for him when recruiting players, and I firmly believe that when it comes to attitude/mentality, Fellaini is virtually a perfect example of having the right mindset; he doesnt give up, he doesnt go into his shell if things arent going well, he doesnt allow himself or the team to be bullied, he keeps battling until the last minute, he doesnt allow boos and jibes from the stands to affect him.

On a related topic to the above, Fellaini has also appeared to demonstrate that he is capable of carrying out the managers specific instructions very well. Whilst as fans we can never know with absolute certainty what goes on behind closed doors, I recall last season the clip in the West Brom game before Fellaini was brought on, where LVG was talking to him and clearly relaying instructions. Fellaini came on, delivered an excellent performance and scored a goal to level the game for us - he then started something like the next 8 games. He played roles including man-marking an opponent (Fabregas vs Chelsea, a game where Fellaini won MotM - and not in the fashionable "3 game streak" that the critics love to reference), playing high up the pitch as a target man or second striker, and the "inside left" position in our 4-3-3. The point here is simply that LVG has spoken plenty of times about how he likes players to be intelligent, that he likes them to make their own decisions on the pitch etc - and he appears to trust Fellaini in this capacity.

Next up is work rate. I find it utterly baffling that people in this thread have come out saying that Fellaini is lazy. I dont have statistics for this but would be very interested to see the amount of ground covered by players over 90 minutes, because the role Fellaini has been playing for us is essentially box-to-box, and one that requires a lot of running and energy. Fellaini presses the opponents back line (less so recently due to being deployed in a deeper role admittedly), presses the midfielders and defends a lot around our box. Furthermore, we have seen in recent weeks that Fellani has obviously been instructed at times to go back and assist the CBs - Blind in particular - at defending long balls or against physical strikers (this is an example of what I spoke about in the previous paragraph). It is noticeable to me how often Fellaini is back inside our penalty area to make defensive headers - easily moreso than our other midfielders. The notion that he is lazy is one that I find truly ludicrous, with this in mind.

While talking about footballing intelligence (again, something Fellaini is often criticised over), it is worth noting that Fellaini is a player who seems to know and appreciate his own limitations. He doesnt try to play 60-yard raking passes because it isnt his game. He gets criticised if he plays a sideways pass, but realistically if he has players like Herrera next to him, then surely it is a good decision to lay off the ball to a more creative player/better passer? There isnt anything wrong with this - it is in fact the same thing we used to see Michael Carrick do when he was alongside Paul Scholes - simply the acknowledgement that another player may be able to do more with the ball than you can. With that said I do not believe Fellaini is technically deficient at all. We keep seeing the old Bayern Munich clip getting roled out of Fellaini apparently running the ball out of play, and it is an area of his game which is once again exaggerated. Fellaini is not afraid to drive forward with the ball, he tends to play a simple passing game for the most part, but we have also seen him bust out some pirouettes and fancy flick-ons and backheels at times. You ask not to bring up other players - but consider someone like Valencia, who has managed to get to a club like United despite virtually not having a left foot, and having a trademark "shin buster" cross. Other examples exist, but the point here is simply that Fellaini is nowhere near as bad technically as many make him out to be - it is more that he tends to play a simple passing game and take the low risk options because he has more creative players alongside him.


I would like to conclude by saying that I do not believe that Fellaini is a future Ballon d'Or winner, nor do I believe he should be a regular starter for United in the current system. He is however, a valuable member of our squad, he has unique characteristics - some of which are sorely lacking amongst our other players, and has shown that he is able to be a very good player for a team at our level. The abuse and level of criticism he receives is completely unjustified and disproportionate to his actual performances, and that is reflected on the Caf by this thread and his match ratings.

Column

I appreciate your comment on Fellaini but a lot of it is a very overrated.

 

[Cheesy]

Column

I appreciate your comment on Fellaini but a lot of it is a very overrated.

Yeah, I admire his attempts to defend Fellaini, but much of it is dramatically over the top. A whole paragraph on following instructions, for example...which I'm pretty sure the vast majority of decent footballers do. And another on his footballing intelligence...because he recognises he isn't a good passer so shifts it to better ones, as if that's some heralded virtue.