[Sultan]

Sultan, I usually agree with you on football matters, but the difference Fellaini has made when playing over Herrera is huge. we no longer get run over in midfield (at least aginst Chelsea and City). That alone means he should play right now. He might not be the long term fix (I hope he is - I like his style), but right now he brings something our midfield badly lacks.

We'll never know, buddy. To be fair, the results could have been a different had Herrera played. We know for a fact we did not win any of those last 3 games with Fellaini. Herrera has played against some of the best midfields (Madrid and Barca) without being run over in the past.

 

[Invictus]

Wov just wov.

How is that dude detriment to the style of football you grew up watching exactly?

Rest of the post is hard to read too.

It's pretty simple to be fair. For the most part (save the last 3-4 seasons) I'm used to United midfields with proficient passmasters (Scholes, Carrick what have you) and hard-tackling yet technically sound BAMFs who gave 120 % (Keane, Butt). So to witness Fellaini who has numerous deficiencies has become a task of labor. It's just a matter of preference really, I'm not forcing it on you. Personally I just don't appreciate the brand of football he plays. That's one of my biggest gripes with him.

I'm sorry but I don't understand the second bolded part. Do you want me to space the paragraph ?

Thing is, his style of play has been fine and hasn't looked out of place the last few games. If he keeps up his current level of performance on a consistent basis I see no reason why he shouldn't be a regular starter.

He does look out of place though. He's big and lanky and looks a bit silly and that will forever count against him in the eyes of some.

But see, it's all a matter of relative perception. Some might find it to be fine, I have zero issue with that - hardly ever argue with people who hold that view because it's about personal preference. But even his recent performances are not to my liking in all honestly. Maybe I'm being a bit neurotic but that's just how it is. And it's not just the physical stature of him. Nemanja Matic for one is of the exact dimensions as Marouane but I just love his reading of the game, the subtle movements and overall sense of security he radiates in their midfield.

I just find Fellaini to be the antithesis of what a modern midfielder stands for. You know, things like deft skill, inventiveness, field vision, spacial awareness and so forth. I dunno, maybe I'm being too unrealistic. Should probably retire myself from this thread because a lot of the times people counter with reductive "hater" tags and I think it's a bit unfair. Hardly hate the man. I just don't like the kind of football that he represents.

 

[KiD MoYeS]

I'd bring Herrera back in for the Palace game, but Fellaini has been an important player in our two biggest games this season.

 

[Ace of Spades]

Sultan, I usually agree with you on football matters, but the difference Fellaini has made when playing over Herrera is huge. we no longer get run over in midfield (at least aginst Chelsea and City). That alone means he should play right now. He might not be the long term fix (I hope he is - I like his style), but right now he brings something our midfield badly lacks.

That is because we are playing a different formation with a different set of players. With fellaini, we play with wingers to make use of his aerial ability, and with Herrera we played a diamond with all our strikers.

 

[NM]

That is because we are playing a different formation with a different set of players. With fellaini, we play with wingers to make use of his aerial ability, and with Herrera we played a diamond with all our strikers.

Playing a diamond should lead to us getting overrun less, not more. Not sure I understand your argument.

 

[KiD MoYeS]

We were winning the midfield battle today up until Smalling got himself sent off, imagine that? Going to City's place and winning the midfield battle.

 

[Shamwow]

But see, it's all a matter of relative perception. Some might find it to be fine, I have zero issue with that - hardly ever argue with people who hold that view because it's about personal preference. But even his recent performances are not to my liking in all honestly. Maybe I'm being a bit neurotic but that's just how it is. And it's not just the physical stature of him. Nemanja Matic for one is of the exact dimensions as Marouane but I just love his reading of the game, the subtle movements and overall t sense of security he radiates in their midfield.

I just find Fellaini to be the antithesis of what a modern midfielder stands for. You know, things like deft skill, inventiveness, field vision, spacial awareness and so forth. I dunno, maybe I'm being too unrealistic. Should probably retire myself from this thread because a lot of the times people counter with reductive "hater" tags and I think it's a bit unfair. Hardly hate the man. I just don't like the kind of football that he represents.

i just think you aren't giving him enough credit. He's shown us deft skill, inventiveness, field vision and spacial awareness recently. I could give you examples as evidence for all of these things if you'd like.

You made the Matic comparison but did Matic look like a better player last weekend? I didn't think so.

 

[NK86]

He played well today but I really dislike this "tactical" plan by LvG which makes him run.into the box even though the ball is near the half way line and Blind is isolated. He is a midfielder and he should target his runs better than to just get in the opposition penalty area every time we have the ball.near the half way line.

 

[Red Hand Devil]

Would he have been a United player had it not been for Moyes?

Just Google the question "Sir Alex criticises Hargreaves in his book"

Would Smalling, Jones, Cleverley, Djembe Djembe, Kleberson (to name but a few), ever wear the shirt it werent for Fergie?

No need to answer that - points been made!

Fergie & books, i've no interest in. He's just milkin every penny he can get & i'm sick of it - same as Keano. Both hypocrits in their own right & i've no interest what either say in their new book(s) 2.2a,b,c,d versions..

 

[CLARiiON]

The Aguero incident wasn't great but tbh Aguero is a nasty little cnut himself. I'm glad Fellaini got stuck into him.

Whether Aguero is a cnut or not is not really the question.

 

[montpelier]

These 2/3 games are about the best he can do though. Not a long term idea that looks like a lot of fun. Really limited footballer. Awful decisions, average in possession. Won't hit a ball that well (WBA goal) ever again.

 

[wiz4231]

I'm not liking this target man driven football were playing with him.

 

[Invictus]

i just think you aren't giving him enough credit. He's shown us deft skill, inventiveness, field vision and spacial awareness recently. I could give you examples as evidence for all of these things if you'd like.

You made the Matic comparison but did Matic look like a better player last weekend? I didn't think so.

Maybe so, there could be some truth to you first sentence. fwiw I never liked him at Everton, for Belgium, with Moyes in-charge and now. He doesn't have have ingredients or the X factor for lack of a better word in my estimation. Sorry but I really really really struggle to see those qualities at a high level on any sort of a consistent basis. One flick to Januzaj here and one bit of blocking Matic there isn't enough for me because the overall game leaves a lot to be desired. I know, maybe I'm overly harsh on the fellow but it's best to be upfront about it. He will never be the kind of midfielder I'd like to see at United. To bracket that I'm thinking along the lines of a Martinez or Toure or Alonso, even our own Herrera - players who're conducive to attractive football. I think he's neither very good defensively or offensively or in terms of setting the rhythm from deep but offers a very narrow skillset - mostly pertaining to disruption and aerial presence.

As for the last statement, I'm talking more over a broader sample size. One game does not a worse/ better player make. Surely you'd agree that Matic has been very good in almost all facets of midfield in 9 of 10 occasions since his arrival from Benfica ? For one he's far superior while in possession of the ball, which is what I'd like to see from our midfielders.

 

[Stookie]

Thought he played alright today.

 

[LR7]

He'd be ideally suited to West Ham and Stoke. United are not about his type of football. If posters are praising him for this performance our other players should bow their heads in shame.

I made this point a lot last season.

He was decent today though. When you compare his performance at the Etihad in this fixture last season with today's, the difference is staggering. He's much better, it has to be said, but his level was so low to start with that even with this improvement, I still don't think he's of the quality we require. Nor do I think he will ever be.

Even at his best at Everton in 2012/13 I could see that he was effective when used in a certain way and suited their style, however he was never a footballer I wished we had and I don't think his best qualities suit us.

I hope Herrera comes back in but sub appearances from Fellaini here and there will no longer fill me with dread.

He's still clumsy and nearly gave away a penalty. We are very lucky it wasn't awarded. He ball watches at times when defending set pieces which is a concern as he often has no idea whew his man is. He gives away niggly unnecessary fouls too. However he has some good qualities to go with the concerning ones as well. His passing, whilst simple, is much improved. In midfield he's been better positionally to help win the ball back whether aerially or via an interception and he's shown a lot more desire, fight and application which makes him far more endearing.

Nothing special, but still decent today.

 

[Wolverine]

I absolutely agree with you, it should go without saying. I was simply asking the original poster a question, when he said the following:
I was simply asking that, if he gives a threat up front, from headers and set pieces, should a case be made for him to be a regular starter, while along with that he is a liability? That's all. Simple question. You seem to be misunderstanding it and getting bizarrely worked up over it.
The way I'm reading Wolverine's post (and I may be misunderstanding his) is that a case can be made for him to be a regular starter, due to the fact he is a danger from set pieces.

I don't believe that's the case. Disregarding the technical ability thing, as I think plenty of players are crucial without great technical ability (Steve Bruce was one of my favourite United defenders), even if he is showing a threat up front, if he's dismal in other areas, he a case should not be made for him to be a regular starter.

At the moment, it's a moot point. He's done enough in the past few games to be starting, fair play to him.

No I should have clarified, obviously general play is a factor and a significant factor. What I implied was he can get away with a less technically proficient display in central midfield, less so than what I'd expect of say Herrera because of the added factor of his height (winning things from set pieces) and generally being a nuisance around the penalty box which at his best he can be (in his own way, despite not being aesthetically easy on the eye)

Having said that he certainly shouldn't be a liability, there are still standards that he should have with regards to passing, positioning, footwork, mobility, defensive work. He's come a lot closer to those standards in the last few games for me (certainly compared to last season). I think if anything more than anything we need to be dominating the midfield with possession due to our vulnerable backline so those standards are even more important now. But having said that if he can be average-to-good in his general play and be an attacking threat I think there is a case for him to start more regularly.

 

[NinjaFletch]

I'm throwing it out there.

I have more confidence in him than Herrera. We just look more solid with him in the side.

 

[Blue always red]

I don't understand why people think he is just a hoofball merchant. Plenty of times today he received the ball in the middle held off another played and turned and tried to set up a counter. We were a man short so we were very limited with options. Some of the buildup play he was involved in was very nice.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

90% pass completion. 6/8 tackles won. 1 interception. The stats really back up everyone saying he had a good game. It was a proper CM performance. Something a lot of people used to say he wasnt capable of.

 

[ThanksBoss26]

I'm not a huge fan of his and would happily have sold him in the summer just gone, but I thought he had a decent enough game today and the last three games are the first time he's built himself any kind of momentum in his United career.

Next week will be interesting to see how he does in a game when hopefully we will have a lot of the ball and be on the front foot, but good luck to him. I hope this is now the start of him proving me, and a lot of others, wrong.

 

[Jed I. Knight]

He played well today, again.

I hope Herrera is fully fit and gets to start again next weekend though, even though Fellaini hasn't really done anything that warrants losing his spot. We look far more potent going forward with Herrera - Blind - Di Maria in midfield.

 

[Boycott]

Whenever I see people who say he is ideally suited to West Ham or Stoke it's pretty much implying that he's a long ball merchant as there is a reason why those teams are perceived to have that connotation.

He's a better footballer than that. Not top level but he's good enough to have a go and he's done well since coming in.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Not to mention that West Ham have arguably been playing better football than us this season!

 

[Rowem]

I thought he was alright today but I really don't want him anywhere near the first XI for these big games.

Defensively he's often slow and lazy not following runners, and occasionally reckless in the tackle. On the ball he's in the centre he's alright in the sense that you'd expect from a CM, but he doesn't offer quite enough - he's a bit Tom Cleverley with his usage of the ball, except probably Cleverley moves it quicker. Fellaini had a couple of nice turns today, but in a game like this you need to have pace to break on the counter. Then you have his attacking threat - he ambles into the box leaving the midfield to work to everyone else and as a team it makes us go more direct than usual with long balls aimed at him.

For him to justify his selection then he would have to be absolutely dominating in the air but for me he's missing too many headed chances and he's not winning those aerial balls in and around the box anywhere near enough. That's his main weapon and if he isn't providing a huge threat with it, then it's not enough to make up for his lack of ability in other areas.

 

[sammsky1]

Given the disaster of last season, one can only credit him for his revival in the past 3 games. It takes a lot of courage and self conviction to come back from the lewd criticism he has received from critics and even his own fans. At least he has now plausibly suggested that he can provide a unique option in our squad..

Now Carrick is also back, and Blind and Herrera are closer to being settled, finally LVG has options in midfield and can pick bespoke selections deepening on the game. If Fellaini can continue this, he will be useful next year when we (hopefully) get back into Europe, and so have far more games to play and many different tactical situations to plan for.

Certainly the beginnings for a turnaround in his United career but still many more performances required for that to be a certainty.

@Sultan I don't think anybody is suggesting we build the team or even the midfield around Fellani, simply that at least he is now making an impact and provides us a different tactical option when required. Surely that cant be a bad thing, if he can deliver and a manager uses correctly?

 

[sammsky1]

Would he have been a United player had it not been for Moyes?

Just Google the question "Sir Alex criticises Hargreaves in his book"

Of course not, and most of us did not want him at the club either.

But he's here now and at a considerable cost. Surely its in our interest to make it work?

 

[pocco]

He did well again today. One or two times when he ran past City players with the ball, including Toure, like they weren't there. He might not have the quick feet but his long stride gets him out of situations effectively.

 

[montpelier]

could have conceded 1-2 pens, missed a great chance, always gonna be ponderous in possession, encourages the hoofball just by being there

 

[DWelbz19]

I don't agree with this idea that Fellaini makes us stronger defensively, at all. He hasn't been more influential than Ander, either. He can only play one way which makes us play that way - make him the focal point by playing direct - it makes him seem like he's the main man in the attack, but it's too detrimental to others. Herrera brings the tempo up and it forces everyone else to play quick, and not slow, indecisive football.

 

[No11]

His physical presence alone has made the team more solid looking. With what we have defensively at the moment I think we need him, otherwise we just get runover in midfield and the defence shit themselves.

 

[Ash_G]

I just think that whilst he individually may be doing whats asked of him well, gets up and wins the ball/makes a nuisance of himself, keeps possession and is tracking back decently he still leaves us somewhat unbalanced and I don't know if he's, or the way we want him to play is bringing the best out of the attacking players.

I don't think it's actually his fault as it seems tactical but the way we play with him pushing up so quickly just doesn't help us transition play imo. We don't get Di Maria/Januzaj close to the opposition box and then cross because by the time we've gotten the ball past the half way line everyone central bar Blind is at the edge of the opposition box and so the passing options are limited. Typically it results in either someone having to drop back by which point momentum is lost, it goes backwards or it goes wide and Di Maria crosses from very deep.

If we played with him actually holding his position and making a late run in then I think we could get more out of the rest of the players. Just feels that we want him and Rooney who albeit eventually come deeper, but in general it feels we want the two of them really pushing up and it's costing us in terms of build up play. City stretched us by overloading players where the ball is, we overload space which can also work but is a lot harder when the only way to that space is through an aerial ball which means the other team don't have to over-commit players there.

I'd like to see how Fellaini could operate playing more as a cm and then making the burst in to the box when the time is right, but if he struggles with that, as it is a different skill then when you're the number 10 then unless we need his physicality I'd rather have Herrera there to help bring others in. He might not have the same individual impact but I think he can held bring others in better.

 

[ManUArfa]

I don't get the posts which are suggesting we played a hoof ball in to the box game today because of Fellaini. He went up for set pieces as you'd expect but his more advanced contributions today and vs Chelsea were as part of a fluid, interchanging attack. He's played box-to-box in these two games but more so defensively being one of the two players who had the job of starting our attacks.

 

[MThomas]

I thought he was quite poor for the majority of the match, though showed plenty of strength in the final 15 mins when we pretty much tried to launch every ball his way.

Pussied out of the duel with Demichelis when Rojo ended up getting injured, gave the ball away for the situation that 2 sec later ended up with Smallings brain fart, lucky to not award Manchester City a daft penalty. Too slow on the ball, too clumsy.

 

[m1y2]

people here are like Fellaini is good , starting to feel he is better than Herrera. What the actual fcuk? I am pleased for him but he needs to do much more, he could have been a villain after clear foul on Aguero. Herrera was our best player since he came to the club. He just had one average match against chelsea when he was rushed back from injury. And we changed formation a little. Fellaini took his chance and thats why he is playing now. Herrera is twice footballer fellaini is, say what you want. Fellaini is palying his 6/7 premier league season or more Herrera did brilliantly okay to settle in and only unlucky injurries hold him back. Apart that one half he was the most influential player more influential than dimaria and once he comes back he will be starting again. I would it him in to side with fellaini maybe next time...

 

[iBoss]

Played really well. Should have scored and given away a penalty though.

 

[Still ill]

He's done what he was brought in for. We've been solid and tough to penetrate against the best two teams in the league. He's shown he's a valuable option for us, something many were loathe to admit a couple of weeks ago. There's still issues but to try to clearly define them on the back of that pantomime of misfortune and stupidity seems a pointless pursuit to me.

 

[izec]

Fellaini played well, but we sacrifice our style and offesnive football for that. With Herrera, we were more fluid and created a lot of chances, but were more open at the back. With Fellaini, we are more solid, but we dont create anything. We kick a lot of times the ball towards him and hope for the best. I dont know what that means for our long term future under van Gaal.

 

[pocco]

It's cringeworthy the lengths people are going to downplay his performances. Talking as if we are playing route 1 football to him all the time. It's just not the case.

Maybe once or twice we aimed a cross or long ball to him, but why not use his aerial abilities to our advantage now and then?

 

[Manucho the boss]

It's cringeworthy the lengths people are going to downplay his performances. Talking as if we are playing route 1 football to him all the time. It's just not the case.

Maybe once or twice we aimed a cross or long ball to him, but why not use his aerial abilities to our advantage now and then?

Once or twice? Did you watch the same match as the rest of us?

Di Maria is being wasted turning him into a long ball merchant aiming at Fellaini's head.

If the ref had given their penalty then Fellaini wouldn't be getting any praise, he got lucky this time but he never seems to learn.

 

[mufcwarm92]

Another promising performance against another good side.