Not really enough for a United midfielder though is it.
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Not really enough for a United midfielder though is it.
Well it has been for Cleverley & Anderson
And Nicky Butt.
Erm
(Before you start I accept that Ando looked very good for a while and I thought he was going to be great. Not sure I'd ever have called him neat and tidy though)
Aye. If he was half as good as Nicky Butt we wouldn't be having this discussion to be fair.
Neat and tidy's such an odd turn of phrase for Fellaini even if I know what you mean. 4:35 in the video above against Chelsea is what I mean. He recieves the ball under pressure, makes it worse with a horrific first touch, then recovers with a bit of upper body strength and a good second touch before playing himself into trouble again with his 3rd and recovering to recycle possession whilst getting applauded by the crowd for not giving the ball away.
He's good at keeping things ticking over, moving the ball on quickly to players who will hurt a team more and retaining possession. But I would never say he looks neat and tidy because, well, he's a bit clumsy looking.
I love his attitude towards working hard to be here and prove people wrong but that price tag will always be above his head. Right now though I'm enjoying his football!
I get what you mean. It's actually not a bad description of him though. He uses the ball better than most give him credit for and can hit some decent forward passes. Now that he's getting his confidence back he looks a lot more comfortable and safe in possession imo
and how many good games does he need to have before you accept that he is not shit?
As I keep mentioning, he had several decent performances even last season but at the time many people wrote it off as him only performing against weaker opposition (palace, west ham, WBA etc), now he put in a very good performance against Chelsea so soon there will be no excuses left for the antiFellaini brigade.
He just needs to deliver decent performances on a regular basis. Same goes for any player. So far he's had more bad games than good for United so people are justified in not being overly impressed by him.
Until that time comes he's still shit to me. Whats more, his chances will be very limited when Herrera regains full fitness and when we make a marquee signing in CM. He needs to keep performing like he did against Chelsea but I don't see him keeping it up.
The anti Fellaini brigade will never come around on this, even if he scored a hat-rick in a CL final they would make some silly excuse and probably give someone else credit for it while dismissing Fellaini. Fellaini is shutting up a million mouths with each of these performances and long may it continue because he is actually a quality player and can benefit the team a lot.
I actually wanted us to sign him right after he dominated us in that 1-0 win in August 2012, and the only season he got slated so bad last season was because he was Moyes only signing. Do people also forget the fact he was probably operating at 60% last season because he was playing with a Injury? He was brilliant against Chelsea, he has a new purpose and massive confidence, another performance like that against City on Sunday and he will pretty much become a permanent fixture in our team. Teams can't deal with this guy when he's around their box, this gives other creative players a lot of space to work with.
Phil Neville stated both him and his Dad were buzzing over the moon when he signed on deadline day, imagine how he must have felt getting jeered by our own fans (twats) in that friendly game? I'm incredibly happy for Fellaini, never gave up, never sulked or talked shite to the press, he simply got on with his job and now he's taken his chance and is flying, good on him.
Not saying he's the best midfielder ever, but he's a very good and effective one, and when used correctly he is a very dangerous guy to play against.
I actually wanted us to sign him right after he dominated us in that 1-0 win in August 2012, and the only season he got slated so bad last season was because he was Moyes only signing. Do people also forget the fact he was probably operating at 60% last season because he was playing with a Injury? He was brilliant against Chelsea, he has a new purpose and massive confidence, another performance like that against City on Sunday and he will pretty much become a permanent fixture in our team. Teams can't deal with this guy when he's around their box, this gives other creative players a lot of space to work with.
Phil Neville stated both him and his Dad were buzzing over the moon when he signed on deadline day, imagine how he must have felt getting jeered by our own fans (twats) in that friendly game? I'm incredibly happy for Fellaini, never gave up, never sulked or talked shite to the press, he simply got on with his job and now he's taken his chance and is flying, good on him.
Not saying he's the best midfielder ever, but he's a very good and effective one, and when used correctly he is a very dangerous guy to play against.
Pretty sure he put Herrera on the bench against Chelsea lol, and Herrera hasn't had a game for us like Fellaini's vs Chelsea. If anything Herrera replaces Mata not Fellaini.
Blind, Herrera and Fellaini could be a great midfield 3.
Yeah, I think that too. Herrera is supposed to be a very good advanced Midfielder as well, so with Fellaini as Box to box with Blind as CDM that midfield has a lot of Balance on paper. We would have to drop Either Falcao or Van Persie though, but against big teams, we should try something like that.
There's several things there if I understand correctly, so I'll try and address them separately.
The point about his tactical awareness defensively ("keeping a shape") isn't at all based on this Chelsea match, mostly because he was clearly under instruction to chase and close down. He was still poor at tracking any midfielder that runs into the box, but I'm not criticising for his defensive positioning in this match. It is, however, something I noticed in pretty much every match he played last season. I didn't watch him all that carefully when he was at Everton, so it's possible it was just a bad season for him, but things like positioning shouldn't be a matter of form.
As for whether LVG actually cares about his central midfielders being able to keep a shape, I would imagine that he does. Keeping a shape doesn't necessarily mean sitting very deep and absorbing the opponent's attacks, it just means knowing where and where not to engage (this could be high up the pitch), and where to stand when the rest of your teammates are in any given position. The only exception I can see is other matches like this Chelsea one, where Fellaini is told to more or less man mark an opposition playmaker, regardless of where he goes. This is not something we're likely to do in most matches, which is why I qualify this as Fellaini doing a (good) job for us when required, something I (under) stated in my post. But this wouldn't make him a weekly fixture in our starting XI.
Finally, regarding the attacking impetus - yes, as I wrote, I agree that Rooney would be a more complementary piece than Mata as a n.10 when Fellaini starts in midfield. But anytime he's being pushed into the box when we have the ball, we are certain to be more predictable in the way we play than if he weren't there, because he's not likely to interchange positions with players around his as much as Herrera or any of our strikers, if nothing else. I could eventually see this being effective for longer periods if the centre forward played in front of Rooney were brilliant (or in brilliant form, rather) at the buildup play, linking up and interchanging with the players around him, but so far that hasn't been the case for RVP, and we're yet to see enough of Falcao to know if he'll be better at that in this team.
I used to drool over his performances in an Everton shirt, the last time Everton visited OT under SAF he totally bossed the game. The only problem that I had with Fellaini in a red shirt is that, for me, he's a kind of Crouch type player, not involved in the build-up and not all about the sweet movement, he's more a towering forward-midfield enforcer to hit the ball up to. It's sometimes hard for lanky players to look comfortable on the ball I know. I often thought that Moyes played him too deep and it was a bit of a waste but it also betrayed the fact that he's not the sort of player that wants the ball enough. It makes him look lazy when you see his movement off the ball … it's like he's moving into positions where he's least likely to get played in which really annoyed me last season.
I was ready to watch him walk out the door this season too until I watched the MNF analysis of Sundays game and saw how many people Chelsea put on him and how his decoy runs were a tactic and actually made space for other players. I still worry about him as a card magnet liability, especially against a speedy team like City, but I think we need his height at set pieces and I'm starting to like how the experiment is going. If Carrick's still not match ready I'd welcome his inclusion on Sunday.
I was stuck on an overnight cross channel ferry full of Belgian football supporters travelling to see their country play Wales (I think) just after we bought him last summer. The whole crossing (nearly 2 hours) they sang the same "he can feck my wife" song to the tune of "I love you baby". I thought at the time that, with the talent in the Belgium team, if they want to sing only about him we've done a great bit of business. My main problem is not that he didn't seem to work out (dissapointing as it was at the time) it's that I can't get the fecking song out of my head whenever I see him … and it's always got a cheesy French accent
I was ready to watch him walk out the door this season too until I watched the MNF analysis of Sundays game and saw how many people Chelsea put on him and how his decoy runs were a tactic and actually made space for other players. I still worry about him as a card magnet liability, especially against a speedy team like City, but I think we need his height at set pieces and I'm starting to like how the experiment is going. If Carrick's still not match ready I'd welcome his inclusion on Sunday.
I was stuck on an overnight cross channel ferry full of Belgian football supporters travelling to see their country play Wales (I think) just after we bought him last summer. The whole crossing (nearly 2 hours) they sang the same "he can feck my wife" song to the tune of "I love you baby". I thought at the time that, with the talent in the Belgium team, if they want to sing only about him we've done a great bit of business. My main problem is not that he didn't seem to work out (dissapointing as it was at the time) it's that I can't get the fecking song out of my head whenever I see him … and it's always got a cheesy French accent
LVG doesn't see Herrera as a number 10. He was only on the bench because he was obviously rushed back, hence his first half subsitution on his first game back. Herrera is firmly ahead of Fellaini in the perking order. If Falcao is fit for City he's starting upfront with RVP and Rooney will be behind them.
Well if that happens then I will firmly believe Van Gaal is a complete tool. If he drops a in form player so he can shoehorn another two strikers in his team, then I will seriously lose faith in the guy. What kind of message does that send out to the rest of the squad?, why should they try hard in training? We might play Rooney behind RVP or Falao, but I doubt we will start with all three. You do realize that Herrera can play alongside Fellaini too?
To be fair he hasn't had the option to use Herrera as a number 10 so far much when he's been fit.
In pre season he did play there in his first 2 games for a half and then some minutes IIRC.
Well I am sure you didn't see him putting in that sort of performance in the first place - in fact you were quite certain that he would never play for the club again, so shows what you know.
He did have a couple of terrible performances when he first came in but Im not sure if he has had more bad than good, not that I can be arsed to actually go back and check game by game!
Where does that live Blind? He's doing well too. Herrera needs to start games when fit. He's a genuine goal threat from the midfield and he also supports the defence well.
When did I say or even suggest that he might never play for the club again? Im pretty sure I said he'd fall further behind in the perking order when we make the inevitable purchase of another CM. I still see him being sold when that happens, unless LVG plans to keep him as backup anyway, and unless Fellaini is content with not being a starter.
You don't need a good memory to remember how terrible Fellaini was last season save for a few games against Crystal Palace and Wesr Brom. Those performances themselves were not great either, they were pretty standard of what you expect from a United player at the least.
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How nice is it having 6 or so decent options in the midfield?
I would say no, and i'll admit it. Lets be realistic though, if we're going for a player like Vidal or of similar quality, and we have Blind and Herrera as well, Fellaini will have a decision to make at some point because I don't see him holding down a starting berth.
Of course he isn't going to hold down a starting berth but he isn't going to get a spot at another club of our size either. If he wants to win big trophies then sticking with us in a squad role is his only real chance.
I don't see this as being all that balanced. Herrera often takes risks in possession, and Fellaini is someone you'd want to allow to get further forward for obvious reasons but can't track back with the emergency of Di Maria.
End result being Blind being left on an island, or Fellaini in a restricted role that plays against his strengths and has people calling for his head again...
Personally i'd rather buy another good CM and give Perriera the standby position. Lets see how this plays out, because im far from convinced by Fellaini.
Great post, I agree with everything; the bit in bold especially. He's had a really really rough run here for a variety of reasons but he hasn't given up. He's shown a remarkable amount of perseverance and fight and he gets a lot of respect from me because of that. If he keeps performing well and LvG knows he can trust him to perform then it will be incredibly hard to drop him. However he will have an average game again soon and I fully expect people to jump back on the bandwagon of saying he is no good.
So you are saying he is good at keeping things ticking over, moving the ball on quickly to players. But he's not neat and tidy cause he looks clumsy?
I watched Fellaini last season in a struggling team where he signed on deadline day, he also had an operation and obvious confidence issues plus trying to settle. He wasn't great I accept that but he wasn't as bad as folk were saying and was better than quite a few who escaped criticism. We have put up with Anderson for 8 years yet people were not prepared to give Fellaini more than half a season kind of annoyed me! I'm not saying he'll be a success here but he should have the chance! Ok neat and tidy was not the best choice of words so what about very efficient on the ball? As for someone "who looks clumsy" he manages to pass the ball forward quite a lot and retain possession from what I see.
He's a new player who's settling in who has been out with injury! Kagawa had more bad games than good games also but some folk were gutted when he left! Plus Mata has hardly set the world on fire are we going to write him off also?
Kagawa did nothing to deserve to stay. He had a big reputation but he never performed. It was the right decision to let him go. He wasn't suited to the PL. Mata needs to step up his performances or he'll end up sitting on the bench a lot as well. Not sure what you're trying to prove with these examples. You've named two players no longer at the club, one who is currently failing to justify his transfer fee and one who plays around 3 games a season.
Thats about it. I don't think 'neat and tidy' is a very good description of the work he does on the pitch and the fact its become synonymous with 'good' is a bit odd.
For example, I'd classify both David Silva and Tom Cleverley as 'neat and tidy' players but obviously there's a chasm in terms of the twos respective abilities. On the other hand, I'd argue Suarez looks a bit more ungainly than Silva, but is a more effective player.
All I'm saying is that if you asked me to describe in a few words Fellaini at his best I certainly wouldn't describe him in anyway as a tidy player, but thats not necessarily a bad thing.
I knew Fellaini could be a useful player for us. Some of you lot have to get over the fee we paid. We've wasted a lot of money over the years, with players like Berbatov coming to mind. However, while he probably didn't recoup his transfer fee, he was a decent player for us and scored a 20 in a season if I recall correctly.
Fellaini won't score that many but he'll chip in with his fair share of goals and he adds something different to our team full of pansys. Sure, his elbows have a mind of their own but he's a good player and dare I say it, has looked pretty good this season. That's two goals for him (inc. the one against Valencia) in as many games this season. I'm sure he can improve on that and put in a few more solid shifts this season.
Fellaini won't score that many but he'll chip in with his fair share of goals and he adds something different to our team full of pansys. Sure, his elbows have a mind of their own but he's a good player and dare I say it, has looked pretty good this season. That's two goals for him (inc. the one against Valencia) in as many games this season. I'm sure he can improve on that and put in a few more solid shifts this season.
Fellaini does bring certain qualities to the team that we lack, such as height in offense and physicality. He may not have the silkiest of techniques but in a season of over 30 matches you have qualities that work against different kinds of opponents.
The guy has been a PL player in a team that consistently remained in the top half, and not only against the weaker teams, he has been difficult to play against even for the likes of ourselves and Man City. That obviously says to me that he is a proven PL player, but of course the debate whether he is good enough for us.
LVG seems to have found a role for him and even if he might only contribute in those specific roles, he should be deemed good enough to play for us.
The guy has been a PL player in a team that consistently remained in the top half, and not only against the weaker teams, he has been difficult to play against even for the likes of ourselves and Man City. That obviously says to me that he is a proven PL player, but of course the debate whether he is good enough for us.
LVG seems to have found a role for him and even if he might only contribute in those specific roles, he should be deemed good enough to play for us.
With Blind/Carrick occupying the defensive midfield roles, I actually do believe that Fellaini will get a lot of goals if he continues playing as he is. His role this season allows him to get into the box and cause all sorts of problems and most importantly, get on the end of crosses with that head of his.
On the "neat and tidy" thing, I don't think he'll ever win any fans for his aesthetics as a footballer. His touch is a bit inconsistent, he looks really ungainly when he runs and he's such an odd looking bloke everything he does looks a little cartoonish and awkward. However, he does seem to be a very consistent passer of the ball over short distances, with both feet. Usually picks the right option and passes the ball exactly where he wants it to go. Which is a good quality to have in any central midfielder.
This whole chest control thing has become a bit of a piss take but, ultimately, anybody who can kill a football with their chest the way he does has great control of the movement of their body and is considerably more coordinated than you might think, looking at him mop-rampaging around the pitch.
This whole chest control thing has become a bit of a piss take but, ultimately, anybody who can kill a football with their chest the way he does has great control of the movement of their body and is considerably more coordinated than you might think, looking at him mop-rampaging around the pitch.
And this is what you'd probably want from your central midfielder when you've got people like Rooney or Mata in the #10 role who're far better passers and thus the burden of making through passes or spraying it to the wings should lay on their shoulders. Or somebody could always simply carry the ball forward like Herrera does, while Fellaini can do it as well, Herrera due to his natural agility can do it better than him.
Easy options are sometimes the best solutions. Of course the problem starts when all of our midfielders pick the easy options, that's why midfield duo of, for example, Fellaini and Cleverley never worked.
Exactly. Plus he's favourite to win the ball in midfield, every time there's a dropping ball to fight for. Not a very glamorous skill but can make a big difference in the overall pattern of the game.
Fancy him for a goal if he starts against City.
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