You just know he will, he always does against us. I am just hoping he can keep close enough to him to stop him receiving the ball, a bit like Fabregas.
27
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Yeah I'm going in with this mindset too. I don't care how poor he has been, he will likely play well.
LVG the emperor?
A fair opinion from Ogden.
thing about all this 'new man' stuff is that Fellaini was never actually as bad as many made out last season - many didnt want him in the first place and then he was just an obvious scapegoat for Moyes' failures. He took a ridiculous amount of stick both in the media and online so fair play to him for coming through that to prove his doubters wrong.
Kind of, although he completely contradicts himself.
How can his qualities make him "crucial against the likes of Chelsea" if they are "the opposite to those demanded of a United signing"? Smacks of the same mental gymnastics being attempted by many on here to justify praising a a player they previously slagged off as someone who will definitely never be good enough for United.
I don't like having Fellaini in the team because he confuses me, at his best he is a good player who is technically sound and has a positive attitude, but at his worst he is dreadful. That is why i think that he is not United material. What makes a great player is the consistency and the little gap between his best and his worst.
For me it's like Quaresma you can see the qualities but you can't trust them., now Robben was like that until he met Van Gaal, i was hoping for this kind influence from Van Gaal, i hope it's not a mirage.
For me it's like Quaresma you can see the qualities but you can't trust them., now Robben was like that until he met Van Gaal, i was hoping for this kind influence from Van Gaal, i hope it's not a mirage.
Far too sensible.
It's true. His physicality is coming in handy atm against big teams, but his best attributes (bringing the ball down on his chest etc) are not those expected from a £27.5m midfield signing at Manchester United. Fellaini will probably miss out again when Valencia returns. The last game and a half haven't suddenly made him a brilliant player. I still don't think he will ever be good enough to be a starting player here and the money spent on him is ridiculous for a squad player, however I can admit when he has played well.
It would be really nice if people could discuss signings without silly provisos like the one in bold. We paid what we paid. Get over it. He's not a potential signing, he's already part of our squad. So it doesn't matter whether his qualities are those "expected from a 27.5m midfield signing" those expected from a 17.5m signing, or those expected from a 7.5m signing. All that matters is whether those qualities mean he is worthy of playing for Manchester United.
Seeing he was arguably our best player against by far the strongest team in he league and now looks odds on to start against the second best team in the league, he is evidently "good enough to be a starting player here", which is the main thing. Even if that reassessment of his status means a lot of egg on the face of the dozens of people who wrote him off with indecent haste last season.
The problem he had was he was a new signing and didn't look that good. You can excuse a bad season from a Rooney for example as they've had years of consistency. Fellaini had come in under a manager under pressure and not performed that well. He was off to a bad start and it's hard to recover from that. It didn't help that he got a few knocks whenever he got going. He was scapegoated to an extent but that's alays going to happen with new players as they haven't got the history others have.
I hope he pushes on from this, he has shown at Everton he is a good player...I can't help but feel he's just a bit of a stop gap at the moment til January/next summer though myself.
Players prices are likely to be spoken about on a football forum. As well as their worth and value. I suggest you get over it. Fellaini may or may not cement his place in this team. I don't think he will. It's my opinion. I'm not trying to force you to adopt it. And the last line of your post is just stupid. I didn't like Fellaini as a footballer even when he was at Everton but as soon as we signed him I hoped he would do well here and prove me wrong. That is usually how it works when you support a football club. A good game and a half doesn't make him amazing all on a sudden.
If you're looking for "stupid" in posts I suggest you look no further than the strawman in your final sentence.
Obviously, nobody is calling him amazing but it's refreshing to see so many people willing to adjust their opinions on a player they decided would never make it before he'd even kicked a ball for United. You're obviously more pig-headed than most but each to his own.
Your reactions to people not sharing your opinion are rather bizarre and childish. I admitted he has done well the last game and a half but I don't have to like him as a player. It's not mandatory.
I would suggest that what's really childish is "liking" footballers as opposed to judging them on whether they bring something useful to the team.
And if it's bizarre that you want, how about moaning about not being allowed an opinion in response to a post which finished "each to his own".
If, and that's a big if, Fellaini starts against City then I expect him being used as an utility man playing Silva off the park just like he did with Fabregas, rather than the awaited duels against Toure.
Yeah 'each to his own but if you don't think he will make it here you're pig-headed' was the jist of your post. Which is a childish reaction to someone having a different opinion. Anyway I'll leave you continue this one yourself.
he is a good all round player and has some extra abilities common players doesn't have in his position. I'd think he can play a deep role he is not playmaker and can lose the ball easily, he can't be CAM as we really don't want to hoof the balls to him, he is not enough fast to palsy box to box in order to be anywhere his tackling is average, his finishing is good, his heading is overrated but he is still one of the best in the air if he wants and focus... still he can be very valuable player. I think if we can balance players around him he can be our dark horse. Look how much better we are in possession? Sometimes we lack directness and the opposite team have time to form up the defense and its his time to make runs to the box as we pass around the box and finding the way through and then if we have world class wing play we can ding in some great balls for him or anyone and we are not bad at wide play but it will get better. Not saying we should pay crosses but we can use him as the opposite team defends in 10 man. If we play some lower table opposition we could play him further the pitch to chest the ball and immediately set up the attack, why not if we have capable centrebacks or Blind who looks like one who could start attacks from the back why not to find him and save say 10-15 passes and some time. We can be more direct... but I believe we can balance this out with some good crisp passing once carrick is back it will get even better and we will be more unpredictable unlike with Moyes where there was obviously only one tactics
It's not about judging them, I too would like to see Fellaini involved again, something I wouldn't have said two weeks ago. But now, many believe he is a better footballer than Mata now. It's amazing how opinion changes so much, you only have to go a few pages back to see the type of comments he was getting from the same posters who are now saying they always believed in him.
Aaah! I didn't read it like that, you are right some are exaggerating a bit.
For me last season he always seemed like he had no idea what he was supposed to be doing. He'd aimlessly wander around, two minutes later sprint forward pretty randomly, but then seemingly not have the energy or inclination to track a simple runner right past him.
From what I've seen so for (which is a tiny sample size), he's being given pretty clear instructions. Against West Brom these instructions were to get forward and everything he did well was in the opposition half. I personally still saw negatives in his game defensively, as was the case under Moyes, but at least these were outweighed by his contributions. Against Chelsea he again had a clear instruction, which he carried out well.
I think it could be as simple as that. He certainly wouldn't be the first player to look at sea when not given clear instructions. Obviously having someone with mobility next to him in Blind is invaluable also. I said very early on last year that pairing him with our previous immobile midfield compounded every shortcoming.
I still think he'll only ever be a decent squad option, but realistically that's all he ever was going to be.
I've never had a problem with having Fellaini on as a squad player and a super sub in certain situations, but I'm mystified by the sudden praise for him in light of his performances against West Brom and Chelsea.
Let me be clear: his goal against West Brom was a thing of beauty and he had a significant role in the RvP equalizer, but apart from those two plays there really wasn't anything in Fellaini's performances in either of those performances that rose above competent squad man play.
Certainly no one here on the caf is beginning to believe, I hope, that Fellaini should now be a regular starter for us???
Let me be clear: his goal against West Brom was a thing of beauty and he had a significant role in the RvP equalizer, but apart from those two plays there really wasn't anything in Fellaini's performances in either of those performances that rose above competent squad man play.
Certainly no one here on the caf is beginning to believe, I hope, that Fellaini should now be a regular starter for us???
This talk about Fellaini and his renaissance is reminiscent of the talk a couple of months ago about Ashley Young being "reinvented" by the genius LvG. I never thought Fellaini was as bad as made out last year and I have a lot of faith in van Gaal, I just think in this case it comes across as a desperate attempt at showering praise on the player and manager for doing very little.
The thing with Fellaini is that his strengths are now being best utilised by van Gaal with his weaknesses suppressed. That's helped him be more useful for us than he was last season.
Having said that, given how he was used, it's pretty much expected that he's at his best in a midfield 3 where he doesn't have the main defensive or offensive responsibilities. He was able to utilise his aggression and tenacity to unsettle the opposition when off the ball. He was also given the freedom to drift out wide to link up with and free the winger whilst also helping us maintain possession under pressure. Finally, he was given the freedom to get into the box and drag defenders away in order to create more spaces for the more dangerous players.
One thing I noticed in the Chelsea match was that Fellaini was perfect for one aspect of van Gaal's philosophy: overloading the wide areas and creating space in the middle. Against Chelsea, him drifting out wide with Shaw and Januzaj dragged 3-4 Chelsea out there creating some good space in the middle. It was a bit of a bummer that Mata and Januzaj didn't make the most of this space in the middle, but even then, Fellaini was very useful in creating space in the middle (reminiscent of his Everton days with supporting Baines and Pienaar).
I still don't think Fellaini can be a key player for us. His main attributes aren't those that really suit us. However, he is still a useful player, and he is still a nuisance to the opposition. If we set up like we did against Chelsea, Fellaini won't be as useless as he apparently was last season.
Having said that, given how he was used, it's pretty much expected that he's at his best in a midfield 3 where he doesn't have the main defensive or offensive responsibilities. He was able to utilise his aggression and tenacity to unsettle the opposition when off the ball. He was also given the freedom to drift out wide to link up with and free the winger whilst also helping us maintain possession under pressure. Finally, he was given the freedom to get into the box and drag defenders away in order to create more spaces for the more dangerous players.
One thing I noticed in the Chelsea match was that Fellaini was perfect for one aspect of van Gaal's philosophy: overloading the wide areas and creating space in the middle. Against Chelsea, him drifting out wide with Shaw and Januzaj dragged 3-4 Chelsea out there creating some good space in the middle. It was a bit of a bummer that Mata and Januzaj didn't make the most of this space in the middle, but even then, Fellaini was very useful in creating space in the middle (reminiscent of his Everton days with supporting Baines and Pienaar).
I still don't think Fellaini can be a key player for us. His main attributes aren't those that really suit us. However, he is still a useful player, and he is still a nuisance to the opposition. If we set up like we did against Chelsea, Fellaini won't be as useless as he apparently was last season.
There's definitely a lot of people desperate to shower praise on Van Gaal. Everyone wants him to succeed so we're bound to look for any evidence at all which can help us convince ourselves he's Fergie's heir apparent.
The opposite is true of Fellaini. He's been a figure of fun for at least 12 months and the whole of summer was spent hoping he'd be sold. That much was abundantly clear. If he's getting praise it's despite serious reservations, rather than people being desperate to draw positive conclusions from very little evidence.
You have to trawl through my posts on him since we signed him... Next time when I post something, take note.
A random, more recent example of my foresight - in the "Would Fellaini improve under a new manager" thread:
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/would-fellaini-improve-under-a-new-manager.389533/#post-15552237
I believe Fellaini will thrive under a manager like van Gaal, so the answer is yes.
-Kevin, Clearly a professor of football. April 24, 2014
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/wou...der-a-new-manager.389533/page-4#post-15565858
I am giddying myself up towards van Gaal's surprise at what he will see from Fellaini. He will wonder how Moyes did not get more out of his potential.
Some humble macarons on redcafe will be served next may.
-Kevin, Clearly a professor of football. April 26, 2014
Need I go back to my analysis of him at the start of last summer, months before we even signed him?
A random, more recent example of my foresight - in the "Would Fellaini improve under a new manager" thread:
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/would-fellaini-improve-under-a-new-manager.389533/#post-15552237
I believe Fellaini will thrive under a manager like van Gaal, so the answer is yes.
-Kevin, Clearly a professor of football. April 24, 2014
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/wou...der-a-new-manager.389533/page-4#post-15565858
I am giddying myself up towards van Gaal's surprise at what he will see from Fellaini. He will wonder how Moyes did not get more out of his potential.
Some humble macarons on redcafe will be served next may.
-Kevin, Clearly a professor of football. April 26, 2014
Need I go back to my analysis of him at the start of last summer, months before we even signed him?
Fixed.
He was very good on Sunday, but lets give it a bit more time first.
He wasn't ever as bad as made out, and he'll be a good squad player/plan B here, provided he's okay with that.
I find it difficult to understand how someone can have watched the last two games and make that statement. When was the last time we had a 'competent squad player' who was capable of restricting a player of Fabregas' qualities to 11 passes in a half? Failing that, when was the last time we had a midfielder full stop who was capable of getting something out of a 50/50 with a player like Matic? Probably Fletcher circa-2009.
Whilst I wouldn't say that he's a better footballer than the likes of Herrera and Mata, it's certainly up for debate whether he could be a better option than either in certain games. On current form its not at all controversial to say that he could end up starting a lot of games this season, though it'll be up to LVG as to what happens when Carrick and Herrera are fully fit again.
Fellaini vs Chelsea.
Or will Van Gaal put Fellaini on Silva?
Silva's the one we've gotta keep shackled imo.
If you don't mind, I'd like to chuck in my 2 pence worth on this.
Here's what I think. No one's denying that Fellaini is overpriced. And I don't think many, if any at all, are saying that Fellaini is suddenly world class. Most people are just happy that he is playing well.
To me, his price is sunk cost but we need to remember that this is not his fault. Right now, he is contributing to the team. He's proving himself to be of some value and he is now giving us options in midfield and tactics. That's more than a lot of people could have predicted at the end of last season. Long may it continue.
Well said.
Definitely. We need to make sure that we don't get carried away, lest people start getting disgusted when he doesn't make 100 blockbuster tackles, win 100% of his headers, make 100 out of 100 passes and assist and score 2 goals in a game.
One thing he did establish during the Chelsea game ... he's more technically sound than people give him credit for. He didn't do his "chest thing" at all, he just moved the ball along very smartly when we were on the attack. No defence-splitting passes, but many neat tidy passes which kept our attacking tempo.
This doesn't make him a great player all of a sudden, but i suspect he a better footballer than what many people thought. Forget the 27.5 mil. He had a release clause of 24mil that was meant to deter bids, and I think the footballing world was in agreement that it should have succeeded as a deterrent. He was a 16-18mil player at the most, and i'll be happy if he becomes that for us.
This doesn't make him a great player all of a sudden, but i suspect he a better footballer than what many people thought. Forget the 27.5 mil. He had a release clause of 24mil that was meant to deter bids, and I think the footballing world was in agreement that it should have succeeded as a deterrent. He was a 16-18mil player at the most, and i'll be happy if he becomes that for us.
Here's the Big Oaf giving (an admittedly weaker) City all the trouble in the world in 2010:
I love the piroutte he did at the end.
Im not convinced. Shit players have good games too. I expect more of the same over a sustained period of time.
Delighted for him with his last couple of performances - he showed real tactical awareness and intelligence in his movement and whilst nullifying Fabregas he still managed to find space well
In saying that Manchester United should have players of the quality of Vidal, Modric or Fabregas and I can see Fellaini only playing a squad role in the medium term
In saying that Manchester United should have players of the quality of Vidal, Modric or Fabregas and I can see Fellaini only playing a squad role in the medium term
wut? why? It's not like we should have a superstar in every position!
If Fellaini can continue to be effective, I see no reason to spend on Vidal. Don't think we'll be in for Modric or Fabregas anyways.
He's done really well over the last couple of games which is a bit of a relief to be honest. At times it looked like we'd paid the guts of 30 million for a player that had almost nothing to offer us. I don't agree with those who suggest he wasn't that bad last season. He was. Whether it was down to confidence, fitness or a combination of both he generally looked slow, lethargic, poor in possession and often mindlessly violent. He never looked anything close to the player he was at Everton.
I think a large part of his improved performances is down to the system. His best football has always come when he didn't have too much defensive responsibility. He never had the positional sense or discipline to really play in a midfield two. The defensive part of his game was probably the part which frustrated supporters the most last season. With Blind holding he has a bit more freedom to play his natural game. He had a good game against Chelsea. He's got a real presence and can use the ball well.
He's not everyone's cup of tea but games like Sunday show that under the right circumstances he can be a good player for the club. We need to see him do it consistently though
I think a large part of his improved performances is down to the system. His best football has always come when he didn't have too much defensive responsibility. He never had the positional sense or discipline to really play in a midfield two. The defensive part of his game was probably the part which frustrated supporters the most last season. With Blind holding he has a bit more freedom to play his natural game. He had a good game against Chelsea. He's got a real presence and can use the ball well.
He's not everyone's cup of tea but games like Sunday show that under the right circumstances he can be a good player for the club. We need to see him do it consistently though
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No I didn't think he was poor in possession last season! He was mostly neat and tidy with the ball!
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