LVG's style of total football isn't greatly suited to the PL as many teams happily sit back. Without Fellaini this season we would have finished lower.
27
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 31
- Goals
- 7
- Assists
- 2
- Yellow cards
- 7
- Red cards
- 1
- Status
The only good thing is this happened in a completely meaningless game for us, and hopefully lvg comes down heavily on him as a result. Then again, it's nothing new. He constantly plays on the edge of recklessness and I can see it being a problem every now and then unless he's seriously told to get himself sorted.
Total football is suited to all leagues, but like everything you need to master it. And it is players like Fellaini who will prevent us from mastering this style.
You're a clown.
Seriously. He has his uses when we actually use him properly AND the opposition don't have a plan to deal with it, but that's been a rarety, and as a footballer he's absolutely terrible. He can't control the ball, his first touch is ALWAYS back towards his own goal. He can't seem to do anything without fouling someone, and he has a repeated habbit of acting like a bellend in the middle of a game for no provoked reason at all. Like yesterday...what was that? He needed to prove he was a hard man by stamping on someone half his size while they were on the floor? Great stuff. Certainly not embarassing or pathetic at all.
We had that spell where we resorted to England/Andy Carroll tactics which was borderline humiliating. Another spell where we kept standing him at the far post and aiming crosses to him from about 60 yards away. We've tried using him as a midfielder. We've had games where we'd punt the ball up to him, and the opposition wouldn't challenge him, and then his control would be so bad the ball would end up back with the person who punted it to him nearly every time. We've had games where he's been up front while strikers have been stuck in midfield waiting for his non existent hold up play to take effect.
People just see him score a few headed goals and ignore the massive problems he gives us in most games. He just isn't very good at actually playing football. In fact he's shockingly bad at it. He makes Smalling look like Carrick.
Fair enough. I can't see him being more than a squad player next season as we really should start play proper football
when ever you play a forwrad player who is 6' 4'' you will always find the team playing ball
I have no problem with pass and move as a way of creating space so we can create chances. If we were up there with goals scored and attempts on target then I would say it was working.
We have had more possession than any other team in the league this year while only scoring 62 goals and creating less chances than QPR. We're turning into a caricature of Arsenal with the way we hold on to the ball while creating little end product.
I have no problem with pass and move as a way of creating space so we can create chances. If we were up there with goals scored and attempts on target then I would say it was working.
We have had more possession than any other team in the league this year while only scoring 62 goals and creating less chances than QPR. We're turning into a caricature of Arsenal with the way we hold on to the ball while creating little end product.
I concur with Noodle - Fellaini is an absolute fecking abomination of a footballer.
Spot on. We've struggled to crack open teams which remain deep and organised and Fellaini has proved to be a decent alternative, when we've struggled to create chances in these games. If our play wasn't so tumescent and if our play actually had the incisiveness and some players with pace and creativity, I really can't see how Fellaini will fit into the team then. Tbh, most acknowledge Fellaini as just a decent and more importantly, a short-term back-up option. Whilst he is a decent alternative option to have, part of me feels he is hampering the team's development in LVG's possession game-play, as resorting to Fellaini hoof ball tactics seems the easy way out when we are struggling to break down teams.
That might sound a bit too harsh on Fellaini, as he isn't just a pure hoofball merchant and has actually played some decent football on the deck. It just isn't good enough or at the required level for a United attacking midfielder, I'm afraid.
Thats it lads, let it all out. Must have been a difficult season for some, having to keep their mouths shut. I get the distinct impression that folk were just waited with bated breath for him to get sent off (for the first time for United in the PL, by the way) so that they could get the knives out.
Just to be clear - I am not defending his red card yesterday, it was a stupid challenge and he deserved to go - the reaction on here however, whilst not unexpected, is pathetic. Wouldnt surprise me if these were the same people booing him in preseason against Valencia.
Not me. Quite the opposite. I've been delighted with the turnaround in his career this season, having previously been in a tiny minority that thought he might eventually come good.
I'm not feeling vindicated or pleased at all. I'm just very disappointed. I think it's a shame we have a player in our team capable of such a cowardly and malicious act. It's depressing tbh.
He's had previous altercations well worthy of red cards. Let's not just brush all that under the carpet and brand him a saint because his head lead to 5 or 6 goals.
Oh come on, it was just a sh*t challenge. Looked like he was just late into the tackle, and went in with his studs, as quite a few players do.
All this malice nonsense and all these insults are uncalled for. It's odd that no-one in the Rooney thread spoke much about his needless kick at Brady. It was reckless, stupid and he should have been sent off for it, as he was against West Ham. Guess, heads turn when players differ.
All this malice nonsense and all these insults are uncalled for. It's odd that no-one in the Rooney thread spoke much about his needless kick at Brady. It was reckless, stupid and he should have been sent off for it, as he was against West Ham. Guess, heads turn when players differ.
What he did yesterday is just part of his game, I was amazed to hear he has only been sent off 3 times the premier league, have seen numerous occasions where he has been lucky not to be sent off in his time here and at Everton. This season showed what I always thought that he is a number ten and shouldn't be near the team in any other position.
He has played his part but if we want to progress next season then he can't be a starter next season,same goes for young and blind whether or not we can do that we will have to wait and see because who knows what our squad will look like by the time the transfer window shuts.
Fair play to him for recovering from the shambles of last season and in comparison this was a great season but for the fee we paid and for what we should expect from a united number ten he was nothing special this season which in all fairness applies to a lot of players.
He has played his part but if we want to progress next season then he can't be a starter next season,same goes for young and blind whether or not we can do that we will have to wait and see because who knows what our squad will look like by the time the transfer window shuts.
Fair play to him for recovering from the shambles of last season and in comparison this was a great season but for the fee we paid and for what we should expect from a united number ten he was nothing special this season which in all fairness applies to a lot of players.
What a disgusting ridiculous tackle on McShane.
Not even close.
Completely different situation, Rooney's looked bad at first but replay showed that there was nothing in it, Brady completely overreacted with the fall. I don't think he deserved even yellow for that, the ref did right.
Why would people want one of our own players to act like a cowardly thug and get himself sent off? He's had a good season for us. It's a pity he's such a fecking scumbag
What is Rooney trying to kick? It was a cheeky swipe at Brady; his right foot was no where near the ball.
http://streamable.com/2bg9
They're vaguely comparable in that they were both stupid and pointless. In terms of malice they're absolutely worlds apart. As you can see from the reaction of Brady and the Hull players to Rooney, which couldn't be more different to the reaction after Fellaini went in on McShane. There's a good reason that one incident ended in a smile and a handshake and one didn't.
http://play.offsided.com/keeper-736a9451d4bd465082ea53fe92ce2748.webm
How on earth is that malicious? It's just an absurdly crap challenge and he was rightfully sent off.
Earlier on in the season, Rooney aggressively kicked out at Downing and was sent off. Yesterday, his kick wasn't as aggressive, however, it was stupid, intended and he should have been sent off.
Edit: This is an example of a malicious stamp:
How on earth is that malicious? It's just an absurdly crap challenge and he was rightfully sent off.
Earlier on in the season, Rooney aggressively kicked out at Downing and was sent off. Yesterday, his kick wasn't as aggressive, however, it was stupid, intended and he should have been sent off.
Edit: This is an example of a malicious stamp:
This was my reaction - it was a shit challenge, it was stupid and he deserved to go. We have seen shit challenges like that before, and we will do again, but because it is Fellaini the reaction is 10x worse than it would be for any other player.
Regarding the "He gets away with red card challenges frequently" type arguments;
Sorry, but I just dont buy it. When you are as tall as Fellaini and jumping for a ball, there is always going to be a chance that your arm hits someone. You cant expect a player to jump for the ball whilst keeping their arms down at their sides. He does more or less the same thing as any other player, but apparently should be penalised because he is taller than most other players. I am actually pleased that the refs havent bought half of the pathetic overreactions from other players, when they go crumpling to the ground whenever they come within about 10 yards of Fellaini. We have seen multiple times this season, concerted efforts by other teams to get him sent off, and it hasnt worked - including a couple of times where he had an early booking and had to maintain his discipline for the rest of the match, whilst be targeted by opposing players.
Basically, I think that Fellaini gets treated like a Liverpool player on here. He never gets the benefit of the doubt (from fans), any sort of 50/50 situation, for some reason people want to actively side against him, whereas normally in those situations you would expect our fans to support our players, and opposition fans to support their players. The 'spitting' incident at the start of the season was a typical example - it wasnt even a 50/50, but some people were so desperate to find something to use against Fellaini that they actively try to make something out of nothing - for our own player.
Fellaini has been one of our better outfield players this season, and for a decent amount of time was arguably our best. His best performances have often been in the big games, and he has scored several important goals for us over the year. I question the objectivity of those calling for his head, and frankly think they should take a long look at themselves before calling themselves Manchester United fans.
@Pogue Mahone as you said yourself - the difference is the reaction, not from the players though, but from the fans. I can guarantee that if the players were swapped and it was Fellaini who did what Rooney did and vice versa, the reaction from the fans would still be far worse against Fellaini.
As I have - repeatedly - said, it was a bad tackle and he deserved to be red carded, fine.
Calling the player scum, a thug, a shit-head, an abomination, filth (these are just from the last couple of pages in this thread) is however a completely abnormal reaction which shows the underlying agenda (sorry to have to use the term) against Fellaini that several people on here have.
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It was stupid but it wasn't hard at all, he barely touched him.
Perhaps wishful thinking, but I'm hoping he was just a stop-gap this season. I doubt he will be anywhere near the first eleven next season, and we won't start playing better - both in style, and as a team- until Fellaini is no longer a regular. I don't mind him, but he's not even close to good enough if we hope to be challenging for the top prizes again.
Sorry, what? Fellaini's stamp wasn't malicious? Have you played football? If someone did that to you would you accept there was no malice in the challenge? Of course you bloody wouldn't. It was inexcusable. Anyone who tries to excuse what he did is obviously completely incapable of being objective.
Let's be honest, he's got away with a lot of fouls this season, but this incident just puts him back on the referees' radars. Don't be surprised if one of 'those' elbows gets him sent off next season.
Fellaini meant to leave his foot where he did there on McShane yesterday, no two ways about that.
He might be a bit of a donkey when it comes to some challenges but he doesn't strike me as being as innocent as he looks after challenges all the time, there's a bit of badness going on in that head of is as well and that came out there in him yesterday.
Either way like I said earlier whether he'll be right or wrong in the future he's after making a name for himself and he'll be a cute opposition managers dream target in the future. Opposition players will be dropping like flies around him at the least little touch because no more than Young and his diving that time, the seeds of doubt have been sown over time now.
He might be a bit of a donkey when it comes to some challenges but he doesn't strike me as being as innocent as he looks after challenges all the time, there's a bit of badness going on in that head of is as well and that came out there in him yesterday.
Either way like I said earlier whether he'll be right or wrong in the future he's after making a name for himself and he'll be a cute opposition managers dream target in the future. Opposition players will be dropping like flies around him at the least little touch because no more than Young and his diving that time, the seeds of doubt have been sown over time now.
He has got to go. We're back in the CL and are planing a raid on the league next season, we can't afford to have hod carriers in our team.
At anyone who thinks his stamp wasn't malicious. His actions have been derided by everyone. He has some serious crazed fans in here that are incapable of any kind of objectivity.Edit: overreaction. Also to appease the mock offended
Also him out of the side could only help United improve long term in my opinion.
Also him out of the side could only help United improve long term in my opinion.
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He does get away with a lot he treads a line between awkwardness and nastiness, it's part of what makes him an effective player, at times opponents try to exploit it but he could and should have seen red a lot more than just three times since he came to england.
Any player would have been criticised for doing what he did it was dangerous and deliberate it's the type of challenge players should get even longer bans for, it shouldn't mean we get rid of him but he isn't a good enough player to make allowances for if he continues making tackles like that, he is no Keane or cantona after all. Luckily that game meant nothing but he will have to try and cut that out, especially in the champions league where I think refs will really clamp down on him, probably unfairly at times but when he is swinging elbows round they will be a lot less lenient.
Some of that might be valid if it wasn't drowning in hysterical hyperbole. He isn't a classy player and he isn't going to win any awards for his technique but he has been a very useful player for us this season. He's had a very decent season and pulled us out of the fire quite a few times.
His tackling, hold up play and physical presence were vital and instrumental in our most successful run, which also coincided with our best performances style wise.
So, as long as it's not hard, it's ok?
I think the whole Fellainis Flailing Elbows thing is exaggerated myself, and that a lot of that reputation has come from a combination of opponents targeting him/going down easily/height difference/general clumsiness. Not saying he is completely innocent but rather that it is very much overstated. He has shown very good discipline a number of times this season, including when opponents were quite obviously targeting him to try to get him sent off.
Again, I am not defending his tackle yesterday, my point is simply that the reaction goes far beyond justified criticism - calling one of our own players filth or scum is unacceptable for me regardless of which player it is - and you would not see that sort of thing if it were another player who did what Fellaini did yesterday.
Rooney should have been in trouble but he half pulled out. That counts just as much as the aggressive behaviour in the first place. Fellaini didnt pull out, he followed through with a stamp. And anyone who suggests its not malicious cannot be serious, as there isnt another way to purposefully stamp on someone like he clearly did.
Some of the reaction is over the top but there will always be a minority who do that, Rooney would get similar treatment from some people as well, some have even tried comparing the two incidents yesterday which is ridiculous but shows knives are out for Rooney as well.
I really don't think it is over stated I think he is probably the biggest offender in the league in terms of flailing elbows, some of it is due to his height/build and some of it is deliberate and more malicious. Naturally opponents will try to exploit it I don't think any of them have succeeded in getting him sent off though. There are numerous times where he has gotten away with it though so I really do think he gets the benefit of the doubt more often than not.
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Well that would be because it's - thankfully - incredibly rare to see one of our squad cynically injure an opponent like that. If we had more examples to work from you'd have a better idea if your perceived bias is genuine or not. We'd also have a squad full of arseholes. Swings and roundabouts.
That's a bit extreme mate.
Maybe you're right. I just thought it was a disgusting tackle, and he's got a habit of trying to hurt players.
Maybe it is an overreaction, probably brought on by seeing the way the guys leg opened up
FWIW, I won't necessarily hold the red card against Fellaini. Football is a very intense contact sport, and until we can diagram a player's exact thought process it's essentially subjective analysis - with the lines between determined competitiveness to full blown wanker often blurred in a flash point of madness. Some of my favorite players - including the likes of Keane, Gentile, Gattuso exuded a lot of aggression, and weren't exactly saints from a gamesmanship/ moral standpoint, so it's a bit disingenuous to hold Fellaini to a high standard.
That said, a minor backlash is kind of understandable given the clumsy nature of the 'wiener stamp,' and dead rubber nature of the game, with not a lot at stake. It just seemed avoidable and a bit unnecessary from the viewer's perspective, and he could potentially stand to injure a fellow professional if the incident was indeed careless or malicious. Having a prior record of snide behavior doesn't exactly help his case; and also a lot of people would've cut him more slack if he evidenced greater quality. Because he isn't a player of the highest caliber (like the Keane and others mentioned above), it's often harder overlook the alleged nastiness, and stuff like this will only detract from his performances, and attract more negative attention - like with De Jong or Medel.
That said, a minor backlash is kind of understandable given the clumsy nature of the 'wiener stamp,' and dead rubber nature of the game, with not a lot at stake. It just seemed avoidable and a bit unnecessary from the viewer's perspective, and he could potentially stand to injure a fellow professional if the incident was indeed careless or malicious. Having a prior record of snide behavior doesn't exactly help his case; and also a lot of people would've cut him more slack if he evidenced greater quality. Because he isn't a player of the highest caliber (like the Keane and others mentioned above), it's often harder overlook the alleged nastiness, and stuff like this will only detract from his performances, and attract more negative attention - like with De Jong or Medel.
I take your point, but we have definitely had players with questionable traits in the past such as Keane and Cantona (not that I am comparing Fellaini to them in ability or importance of course). Would they get called filth? Probably not, they are instead club legends. Even Paul Scholes had a bit of a nasty side - his bad tackles became something of a running joke though, rather than being used as an attack on his character. To me that basically says that the fans dont mind a player being a dick, if they are a good enough player. So where do you draw the line? How good does a player need to be, for it to be acceptable for them to have a nasty streak? Fellaini has arguably been one of our better outfield players this season, but clearly not enough so that fans will forgive what he did yesterday - for me the key distinguishing factor is that Fellaini is a player that a lot of fans never wanted, still dont want, and therefore are eager to use any given opportunity to have a go at him.
Again I refer to the spitting incident earlier this season (against Chelsea I think) where Fellaini was seen shouting at the floored opponent, accusing him of diving. In my mind there was never any sort of case for it being a deliberate spit, but we had our own fans trying to create slow-mo gifs and still images to use against him. It is this active character assassination that I really have a problem with - just like when Fellaini was booed by our own fans in preseason (which for me is the most embarrassing and shameful thing I have ever witnessed as a United fan). These sorts of actions give the clear impression that a significant portion of the fanbase have basically had it in for Fellaini from day one, and look for any excuse to berate him.
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