He offered an outlet for our defenders to clear the ball to. Was why we were more effective in midfield, meant we didn't keep giving the ball back to the opposition with the long punts forward.
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Honestly I disagree. We shipped far too many goals (Leicester and MK Dons come to mind) and the results were very poor. You can attribute some of this to injuries and defensive mistakes, but the midfield is also responsible for the defensive side of the team.
Needs to come back as soon as possible. Miss the big lad
Our best form came with Carrick's return to the team, for the reasons you mentioned. Not Fellaini.
Clutching at straws a bit he might be available a lot but he can't pass, playing three stikers and mata in the same team is reason we are struggling, introducing fellaini isn't going to improve the passing no matter how anyone tries to dress it up.
Didn't you watch the first half today?
Wig man is needed badly for scrappy opponents like Yeovil, but we definitely need a classier midfielder against the likes of Chelsea and City.
This has been argued to death already and I have no desire to resurrect it, suffice to say Carrick has also been a welcome addition to the team and has made a difference, but even since he has been back, we have struggled at playing the ball out from the back, and the CBs not having any outlets.
It's a simple observation. Fellaini did/does make himself available. He doesn't hide from the ball, and that is exactly what the defenders need at the moment. Fellaini himself doesn't need to have Paul Scholes' range of passing, he simply needs to get the ball off the defenders, protect it, and find a non-CB teammate to lay it off to. He did this, and now we do not have anyone doing it, and it shows.
I wasn't talking bout the first 45 mins specifically so I don't know what your point is.
Fellaini could have played 90 mins today and our passing would have been no better, carrick or blind would maybe have helped but not fellaini.
This. Today our midfield looked very unbalanced because both Rooney and Herrera played more like tens and when the defenders had the ball they had no one to play it to. We need a midfielder in there who will pick up the ball in the space between our offensive players and the defensive midfielder.
I'm sorry but I can't see what you're saying here. Fellaini has played far forward for us (e.g. pushing up on Fabregas vs Chelsea) where he's not building attacks except where Carrick's been at CB and he's played in the midfield two in the 352. He was awful in those games too (Southampton, arse, Liverpool) with his passing. He does the exact opposite of what you say, he's the first to play the easy pass back to our defenders.
It's genuinely laughable to try and argue fellaini is the difference, when he plays deep and collects the ball he really struggles.
Just going back to the Liverpool game where he did have the responsibility of taking the ball off the defence/playing at the base of the midfield 2 in the 352
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/mar...015-performances.394651/page-93#post-16830673
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/mar...015-performances.394651/page-93#post-16830673
Fellaini obviously has a reputation (especially on the caf) as being the AM, the target for long balls etc, but actually watch the games and you may see what he does. I remember the Southampton and Liverpool games and I agreed that he didn't have fantastic games (though in both cases he got better as the games went on and actually ended up being one of the better players), and the stats show that actually his passing - accuracy, completion, average pass length, forwards/backwards ratio and whatever else - was pretty decent.
Again my point and the reason I bumped this thread, is the last 3-4 games we have looked pretty shit. A common (and justified) complaint has been our inability to play the ball from the back, and today was no exception. Whether you want to believe that Fellaini helped in this regard or not, I don't believe it is pure coincidence that since his injury we have (again) struggled in this regard.
I remember that game well, and at the time I even said he does not work in that role, in that system. That said, read a bit further and you will see a general acceptance that he got better as the game went on. My (unpopular) opinion is that some of the blame in that and the Southampton game, should fall on the other midfielders for not giving options for Fellaini when he had it. It was also a pretty common consensus that he shouldn't be used as a DM in a 3-5-2, hell there shouldn't be a DM in a 3-5-2 at all, we instead played a bunch of #10s and stuck Fellaini at DM to try to counterbalance it, it was completely bizarre at the time and we had the same issue against Southampton.
Sorry man, but you are just too obssesed with him.
We were playing even more crap football with him but we were just effective. We did the same today without him so I really see no reason to think we missed him much.
The only thing I came to this thread to say was that he at least didn't hide from the ball and gave our CBs an option to pass to. The last 3-4 games we have looked incapable of playing it out from the back and simply been hoofing it long (ironically a tactic that plenty on here associated with Fellaini).
If you cannot play out from the back then you will never be able to play top quality football (as a team I mean) and that is our biggest problem currently, and whilst it is fashionable on here to criticise the CBs, I think the midfielders are equal culpable. The likes of Herrera, Rooney and Mata simply do not show for the ball and give the CBs an option.
fecking hell, you'd think he was Redondo or Matthaus the way his thread is bumped every time we play shite. LvG only rated two performances out of our last run, the one's against Hull and Newcastle, he only played in one of them. We aren't missing him at all, we are missing a decent formation and the ability to play a consistent back 4 and having no pace up front.
We missed someone who could retain possession and keep things ticking along whilst providing a bit of impetus via their passing. Carrick that is.
Fellaini would have been better than Fletcher (who isn't nowdays, sadly enough) but seriously doubt whether Fellaini could have made a significant impact on this match
Fellaini would have been better than Fletcher (who isn't nowdays, sadly enough) but seriously doubt whether Fellaini could have made a significant impact on this match
Fellaini would have tackled more than Fletcher but gone backwards just as much. Would have been a threat at set pieces though
Pretty much. Carrick and Blind are our most important CMs. In an injury crisis we can shoe horn players like Mata and Rooney to play in midfield, but we have just two holding players of the needed quality
The thing I find with Mata and Rooney in midfield is that they are simply too attacking minded and refuse to drop back to get the ball off the CBs. I agree Carrick and Blind are very important, but we need other players who link up between defence and attack - I thought Herrera would be perfect for this when he signed but he too seems to be too attack-minded.
As much as people hate to accept it, we have a much more balanced lineup when Fellaini is there.. His physicality and aerial ability makes a huge difference when the back 4 is pressured into making long passes, atleast he's able to win it up the pitch and retain possession rather than giving the ball back to the opposition with every long pass attempted from the back..
Herrera seems to keen to get forward and play through balls.. In the 1st half he kept tsking up terrible positions, and the defenders had nowhere to go but back everytime they got ball..
For this formation to work(3-5-2), the ball has to move from defense to attack quickly, before the opposition gets the chance to block any passing opportunities..
But our midfield doesnt play well when he's in it, even when he has played well individually so he doesnt give it balance. What he gives in those areas you mentioned he takes away (from the midfield we started the season using) in passing, running with the ball and positive play all of which were present in the Blind, Di Maria and Ander midfield where midfield looked our strongest area
Maybe we should have got Tony Pulis on the blower then because that is how his teams play, not Manchester United. If we are so desperately poor that you and others think we need a limited player like Fellaini to compete with sides at this level then we are in serious trouble.
Had no pace, no width so how his his noggin going to get on the end of a chance?
He is not the answer.
Agreed.
Lost track of how many 50:50s our central midfielders lost today. Fellaini (the version we've watched this season anyway) would have definitely improved us.
There is no hiding that we have been a lot better when Fellaini is playing this season. Almost 0.9 points per game more with him in the starting eleven and that includes games against Chelsea, City, Arsenal, Liverpool and Southampton.
There is no hiding that we have been a lot better when Fellaini is playing this season. Almost 0.9 points per game more with him in the starting eleven and that includes games against Chelsea, City, Arsenal, Liverpool and Southampton.
Quality of opposition is indeed an underrated stat in this. If you have a good way of getting stats, something like average league position of opponent (with and without Fellaini) would be very indicative.
Average position with Fellaini is 8.13 and without is 12.75 this does not include the 2 cup games.
Except that's not true at all. We were terrible in build up play with him in the team same as without him, but we had the option to hoof it on his chest when he was here, so he was good at that - I'll give him that. But still, that's definitely not called "building it from the back".
Also, he played just one or two games as deepest midfielder, and most of the games he played he was even more attacking than Rooney and Mata, if anything, people were questioning why Rooney plays so deep and Fellaini stays so forward.
Two games he played as our deepest midfielder were against Liverpool, and second half against Southampton, and we were terrible in both games possession wise and building it from the back.
There is no hiding that we have been a lot better when Fellaini is playing this season. Almost 0.9 points per game more with him in the starting eleven and that includes games against Chelsea, City, Arsenal, Liverpool and Southampton.
That proves nothing as it fails to take into account any factor other than fellaini and he has only played eight times. Who knows you may be right but to present such stats as being conclusive is just stupid and in a number of those games he actually didn't even play very well.
The two parts I have bolded I disagree with completely. The first is a simple matter of opinion, the second is just wrong - when Fellaini was first given a chance this season, in the majority of games he played a box-to-box role. In his last couple of games against Liverpool and Southampton he was moved to being a dedicated DM, a decision I (and most others) disagreed with, but even prior to that he was not an AM. He got forwards and into the box when required (as LVG no doubt instructed him to) and obviously if we are chasing a game you will want players who can be a threat to play further forwards, but aside from that in the normal passages of play he played box-to-box - look back on the caf and you will see how many people were surprised to see him being able to play well as a proper CM, not just an AM.
I do find it convenient how every time in this thread (and there have been a few such occassions) that Fellaini's critics are confronted with the stats, they will indubitably respond with some rubbish about how the stats mean nothing. Of course there are more factors involved than just Fellaini, but it has been proven beyond all doubt that the team has done far better with Fellaini in the team, than out of it, this season. Read into that what you like, if you choose to believe it to be pure coincidence then that is up to you.
Finally, and I hate to use this 'card' because it always annoyed me when people did it under SAF - LVG obviously valued what Fellaini was bringing to the team, as after his first sub appearance against West Brom, he played a full 90 minutes every game until he got injured.
I never said Fellaini was the sole reason for us playing better I only said we have been a lot better as a team points wise when he is starting . I personly think that Di Maria, Herrera, Carrick, Mata and Blind are all better footballers than him but Fellaini offers something different than those and we look like a much more balanced team when he is playing.
Beyond all doubt, from those stats, seriously? It's eight games and probably 2-3 of those where he was actually anything better than a six out of ten, if that makes us a better team then we must have very low standards.
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