[Chesterlestreet]

As mentioned frequently he had a much better second half - and he deserves some credit for that. To be a bit cynical, though, you could say that what this indicates more than anything is that he should not play in that position, within that system, against an opponent capable of putting us under sustained pressure.

In the second half Liverpool's efforts where more sporadic, their pressing less collective and systematic - and Fellaini had a much better half. In the first thirty minutes or so Liverpool gave us a bit of a game - and Fellaini looked quite dreadful. He had a game of two halves - and that was no coincidence and not simply due to him getting his shit together for the second half.

 

[PedroMendez]

As mentioned frequently he had a much better second half - and he deserves some credit for that. To be a bit cynical, though, you could say that what this indicates more than anything is that he should not play in that position, within that system, against an opponent capable of putting us under sustained pressure.

In the second half Liverpool's efforts where more sporadic, their pressing less collective and systematic - and Fellaini had a much better half. In the first thirty minutes or so Liverpool gave us a bit of a game - and Fellaini looked quite dreadful. He had a game of two halves - and that was no coincidence and not simply due to him getting his shit together for the second half.

That’s not cynical but just obvious. Even his biggest fans would admit that. That’s not his decision so, is it? Considering that Blind is injured and Carrick had to play out of position he is the next best choice for this Position in this lineup. That tells you eventually more about the squad and the other players and less about him. It also brings up the question how LvG could possibly think that this is a good idea.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

That’s not cynical but just obvious. Even his biggest fans would admit that. That’s not his decision so, is it? Considering that Blind is injured and Carrick had to play out of position he is the next best choice for this Position in this lineup. That tells you eventually more about the squad and the other players and less about him. It also brings up the question how LvG could possibly think that this is a good idea.

Indeed. And I don't blame the big feller - certainly not. I don't see why we have to play in that fashion, to be honest. Like I said above somewhere, IF we insist on that set-up, play Carrick further up the pitch and throw in that extra body back there, i.e. McNair or whoever.

 

[Bilbo]

For me, considering that he was booked after a few minutes and generally had a bad first half hour, I think he deserves enormous credit for his overall performance. Showed great character

 

[Blue always red]

Very good in the second half. For a huge guy he is very good at nicking the ball off the oppositions foot when they're advancing. Our 3rd goal was because he managed to steal it back when they were attacking.

 

[ZDwyr]

If people are bothered by him taking easy passes then they are probably not going to enjoy us playing football under Louis van Gaal. He wants us to dominate possession, and like it or not that is going to involve playing short passes for the sake of passing at times.

 

[MancFanFromManc]

I was cursing him after that awful first 4 minutes yesterday. Making a sloppy start; giving ball away and getting booked, was exactly what we DIDNT need. But... fair play to him, he improved steadily as the game went on, and finished it strongly. So credit where due I say

 

[dutchred]

I was cursing him after that awful first 4 minutes yesterday. Making a sloppy start; giving ball away and getting booked, was exactly what we DIDNT need. But... fair play to him, he improved steadily as the game went on, and finished it strongly. So credit where due I say

He's done a good job for us, but I think once Blind is fit, he will play in the CDM role and Fellaini will be on the bench

 

[ZDwyr]

He's done a good job for us, but I think once Blind is fit, he will play in the CDM role and Fellaini will be on the bench

I agree. Unless we play the diamond, and then I think Fellaini will be preferred over Blind.

 

[ChrisNelson]

Credit where it's due, I've been one of Fellaini's biggest critics - particularly from a disciplinary point of view. Yesterday when he got booked after 5 minutes I feared the worst.
But I have to say he showed great maturity, picking and timing his tackles very well. Liverpool seemed to find it difficult to get any change out of him, although to be fair it was one of the less ill-tempered affairs between the sides and it never really looked like a red card was around the corner.
Seems to be a lot more intelligent than when we first signed him, long may it continue!

 

[Striker10]

He's done a good job for us, but I think once Blind is fit, he will play in the CDM role and Fellaini will be on the bench

Is that the blind that in one of the games played a needless awkward back pass that afforded our opponents a chance? That was looped over the top else he would have got stick. The grass is always greener ain't it. The fact is some people were waiting for any old excuse and it's not about the players, it's about the people.

 

[The Red Thinker]

Is that the blind that in one of the games played a needless awkward back pass that afforded our opponents a chance? That was looped over the top else he would have got stick. The grass is always greener ain't it. The fact is some people were waiting for any old excuse and it's not about the players, it's about the people.

Though, that was probably the only mistake Blind's made in the last six months. The guy is ridiculously consistent. Though, I agree that the Felli-bashing is needless sometimes.

 

[dutchred]

Is that the blind that in one of the games played a needless awkward back pass that afforded our opponents a chance? That was looped over the top else he would have got stick. The grass is always greener ain't it. The fact is some people were waiting for any old excuse and it's not about the players, it's about the people.

????

 

[Walrus]

As mentioned frequently he had a much better second half - and he deserves some credit for that. To be a bit cynical, though, you could say that what this indicates more than anything is that he should not play in that position, within that system, against an opponent capable of putting us under sustained pressure.

In the second half Liverpool's efforts where more sporadic, their pressing less collective and systematic - and Fellaini had a much better half. In the first thirty minutes or so Liverpool gave us a bit of a game - and Fellaini looked quite dreadful. He had a game of two halves - and that was no coincidence and not simply due to him getting his shit together for the second half.

That’s not cynical but just obvious. Even his biggest fans would admit that. That’s not his decision so, is it? Considering that Blind is injured and Carrick had to play out of position he is the next best choice for this Position in this lineup. That tells you eventually more about the squad and the other players and less about him. It also brings up the question how LvG could possibly think that this is a good idea.

Anyone who followed this thread knows I have been one of Fellaini's staunchest supporters and I agree, he does not suit a defensive role in that system, especially with no other true midfielder alongside him.
I dont personally understand the need for a CDM in a 3-5-2, the idea is meant to be that central CB (Carrick) acts as a sweeper or Half-Back, carrying the ball out into midfield and acting as a playmaker. It is a role Carrick is perfect for in my eyes.
Instead we have 3 out-and-out CBs, and a screening midfielder in front of them - it seems overly defensive.

Either way, Fellaini isnt really a DM. His best games came for us as a box-to-box player, where he can put himself about, contribute in attack and defensive and use his strength(s). The CDM role does a good job of hiding most of his strengths and exposing his weaknesses. To be fair though, I think he would do a lot better if he had an actual midfielder like Herrera, alongside him. Mata offered nothing defensively and was invisible for most of the game (before popping up with a goal and assist), and Rooney always puts in a shift but isnt exactly a disciplined midifelder.

I would actually love to see us play a 3-5-2 with one of Carrick/Blind as the sweeper and the other in midfield alongside Fellaini. Then stick Herrera/Mata/ADM as #10 and you have a great looking lineup.

 

[Sid234]

Fellaini's not suited for that CDM role, but he grew into the game and it was almost as if he suddenly calmed down and was making the right passes and keeping the ball moving.. Mainly down to Rooney dropping deep and offering short options and Liverpool got tired of closing us down..

I still would rather have him play in a more advanced position vs big teams than as a DM.. He just doesnt have the creativity and composure to find a player when being closed down quick

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Credit where it's due, I've been one of Fellaini's biggest critics - particularly from a disciplinary point of view. Yesterday when he got booked after 5 minutes I feared the worst.
But I have to say he showed great maturity, picking and timing his tackles very well. Liverpool seemed to find it difficult to get any change out of him, although to be fair it was one of the less ill-tempered affairs between the sides and it never really looked like a red card was around the corner.
Seems to be a lot more intelligent than when we first signed him, long may it continue!

Yeah, I was convinced he'd get a second booking. Really disciplined performance to keep his nose clean for so long. Especially after he got that cheap shot in the ribs, which must have wound him up.

 

[Walrus]

Yeah, I was convinced he'd get a second booking. Really disciplined performance to keep his nose clean for so long. Especially after he got that cheap shot in the ribs, which must have wound him up.

I was of a similar mind. I was really baffled that LVG didnt take him off in the second half and risked him getting sent off. Gotta give credit to Fellaini for staying disciplined even with incidents like getting elbowed in the ribs.

 

[Roboc7]

To have a future as someone who starts regularly he needs to convince the manager not to go and buy Strootman or someone else, yesterday’s performance won’t have done him any favours in that regard, for someone who pretty much exclusively plays short, simple passes he gives the ball away too much. Even though he was better second half all he did was probably leave LVG wishing Strootman was fit enough to sign in January.

I think he is finding it harder lately because he is having to function as part of the team and execute a more traditional CM role rather than just being told to put himself about and get forward (which is how you get the best out of him). I haven’t seen anything to since he signed to change my view from his Everton days that he is a good player but only if you create a role and position for him, ask him to do anything else and he is a very ordinary CM.

 

[KeninDC]

I agree. Unless we play the diamond, and then I think Fellaini will be preferred over Blind.

In a diamond I see Blind furthest back, Fellani perhaps on the right.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Anyone who followed this thread knows I have been one of Fellaini's staunchest supporters and I agree, he does not suit a defensive role in that system, especially with no other true midfielder alongside him.
I dont personally understand the need for a CDM in a 3-5-2, the idea is meant to be that central CB (Carrick) acts as a sweeper or Half-Back, carrying the ball out into midfield and acting as a playmaker. It is a role Carrick is perfect for in my eyes.
Instead we have 3 out-and-out CBs, and a screening midfielder in front of them - it seems overly defensive.

Either way, Fellaini isnt really a DM. His best games came for us as a box-to-box player, where he can put himself about, contribute in attack and defensive and use his strength(s). The CDM role does a good job of hiding most of his strengths and exposing his weaknesses. To be fair though, I think he would do a lot better if he had an actual midfielder like Herrera, alongside him. Mata offered nothing defensively and was invisible for most of the game (before popping up with a goal and assist), and Rooney always puts in a shift but isnt exactly a disciplined midifelder.

I would actually love to see us play a 3-5-2 with one of Carrick/Blind as the sweeper and the other in midfield alongside Fellaini. Then stick Herrera/Mata/ADM as #10 and you have a great looking lineup.

It's a format which can make sense if you're up against a superior opponent, I would say. It makes no sense whatsoever to me as some sort of default choice, not even given the defensive frailty of Young and Valencia: If you absolutely have to field an extra body at the back, to compensate as it were, then field McNair and play Carrick as the DM.

If the logic is that you need A) a ball player/passer of the highest quality at the back and B) a defensive midfielder shielding the defence...then I'm puzzled. I can't fathom why the hell that should be necessary. And if we had looked impressive yesterday playing that system I would have gladly shut up - but we didn't. For large spells we looked porous and shaky.

 

[SammyUnited_83]

To have a future as someone who starts regularly he needs to convince the manager not to go and buy Strootman or someone else, yesterday’s performance won’t have done him any favours in that regard, for someone who pretty much exclusively plays short, simple passes he gives the ball away too much. Even though he was better second half all he did was probably leave LVG wishing Strootman was fit enough to sign in January.

I think he is finding it harder lately because he is having to function as part of the team and execute a more traditional CM role rather than just being told to put himself about and get forward (which is how you get the best out of him). I haven’t seen anything to since he signed to change my view from his Everton days that he is a good player but only if you create a role and position for him, ask him to do anything else and he is a very ordinary CM.

LvG wants to win the League and the Champs League, that isn't going to happen with Felliani. As much as I have been impressed with him this year, it just highlights the need for a strong, physical midfielder, right now that is Felliani but I will be shocked if he isn't upgraded come Jan / Summer.

 

[Roboc7]

LvG wants to win the League and the Champs League, that isn't going to happen with Felliani. As much as I have been impressed with him this year, it just highlights the need for a strong, physical midfielder, right now that is Felliani but I will be shocked if he isn't upgraded come Jan / Summer.

We will upgrade in the summer I am convinced about that, someone who can pass the ball a lot better, with better positioning but is also a strong physical presence, Strootman or Scheniderlin spring to mind. In the meantime though I think Fellaini will be needed and he may convince LVG he doesn't need to upgrade if his perfromances improve over the season, he may even still be sold but the most likely scenario is he will be a squad player next season.

 

[Walrus]

It's a format which can make sense if you're up against a superior opponent, I would say. It makes no sense whatsoever to me as some sort of default choice, not even given the defensive frailty of Young and Valencia: If you absolutely have to field an extra body at the back, to compensate as it were, then field McNair and play Carrick as the DM.

If the logic is that you need A) a ball player/passer of the highest quality at the back and B) a defensive midfielder shielding the defence...then I'm puzzled. I can't fathom why the hell that should be necessary. And if we had looked impressive yesterday playing that system I would have gladly shut up - but we didn't. For large spells we looked porous and shaky.

Pretty much. Looking at our lineup I would expect Carrick to have been pushing forward into midfield to create effectively a 4-4-2 diamond, with a midfield of Carrick as the CDM, Fellaini and Rooney as CMs and Mata as the AM. Then Carrick can drop back into the back three to allow the WBs to push forwards and offer width, when needed.

Its a very unusual system to play 3-5-2 with a DM. When that DM is then not even a natural DM, I am not wholly surprised that Fellaini struggled in the first half, and that we as a team looked quite disjointed.

We have struggled for years when teams put us under pressure, but the answer is not to simply put more bodies in at the back, quite the opposite. We need our midfielders to show for the ball, find space and provide easy balls for our defenders to play out from the back. Neither Rooney nor Mata tend to do this. I do feel that Fellaini makes an effort to find space and show for the ball, but he is not a playmaker and will therefore be looking for the simple pass himself most of the time. What we really lacked was a true playmaker in the middle of the park.

 

[Walrus]

LvG wants to win the League and the Champs League, that isn't going to happen with Felliani. As much as I have been impressed with him this year, it just highlights the need for a strong, physical midfielder, right now that is Felliani but I will be shocked if he isn't upgraded come Jan / Summer.

Its these sorts of statements that annoy me. Against Chelsea, Fellaini shackled Fabregas superbly (and Matic as well, to an extent) and also contributed a lot to our general play. Yet people make these blanket statements that he just simply isnt good enough for x.

 

[SammyUnited_83]

Its these sorts of statements that annoy me. Against Chelsea, Fellaini shackled Fabregas superbly (and Matic as well, to an extent) and also contributed a lot to our general play. Yet people make these blanket statements that he just simply isnt good enough for x.

I would hope that LvG has ambitions that when we are playing at home, players like Fabregas and Matic will be needed to shackle our midfield.

Look Felliani is what he is, a physical presence that get's a job done. However, to be a feared team, you need a midfield that can create, score, tackle and boss games, we still haven't got that. Yes we are much improved in midfield (we couldn't have been much worse), but I don't think LvG is satisfied with what he has, he will want to upgrade. We are getting by at the moment, but with a new better midfielder and a top centre half we could be there.

 

[Walrus]

I would hope that LvG has ambitions that when we are playing at home, players like Fabregas and Matic will be needed to shackle our midfield.

Look Felliani is what he is, a physical presence that get's a job done. However, to be a feared team, you need a midfield that can create, score, tackle and boss games, we still haven't got that. Yes we are much improved in midfield (we couldn't have been much worse), but I don't think LvG is satisfied with what he has, he will want to upgrade. We are getting by at the moment, but with a new better midfielder and a top centre half we could be there.

I imagine LVG will want to upgrade by all means - the key to maintaining success is to never stop looking to improve. But just saying things like "We will never win the CL with xxx" is a silly statement to make, when the player in question has shown that he can compete against top teams and top players, and come out on top.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I would hope that LvG has ambitions that when we are playing at home, players like Fabregas and Matic will be needed to shackle our midfield.

Look Felliani is what he is, a physical presence that get's a job done. However, to be a feared team, you need a midfield that can create, score, tackle and boss games, we still haven't got that. Yes we are much improved in midfield (we couldn't have been much worse), but I don't think LvG is satisfied with what he has, he will want to upgrade. We are getting by at the moment, but with a new better midfielder and a top centre half we could be there.

Funny you should mention Matic. Do you think Chelsea are happy with what he's brought to their team this season?

The one time we played Chelsea Fellaini was clearly the more influential CM on the day.

Taking the season as a whole, the stats comparing the two of them make interesting reading.

 

[SammyUnited_83]

I imagine LVG will want to upgrade by all means - the key to maintaining success is to never stop looking to improve. But just saying things like "We will never win the CL with xxx" is a silly statement to make, when the player in question has shown that he can compete against top teams and top players, and come out on top.

I didn't say we will never win, I said LvG will want to win and by doing so he will want better players, we will get them? Maybe, maybe not, obviously this summer we were looking at a couple of midfielders that we didn't get, so Felliani got another chance.

Can we win the league with Felliani? absolutely but is he the top drawer midfielder that will make us a dominant team? Probably not. It's easy to get excited about the last few Felliani games, Christ I was singing his name as loud as anyone v Stoke, but lets not forget he hasn't regularly come out on top and in places last year looked completely out of his depth, especially in the Champs League.

 

[MoskvaRed]

For all the "philosophy" talk giving rise to visions of free-flowing football, Van Gaal employed Van Bommel at Bayern so he is not averse to the charms of a niggly, dirty, pain in the arse to play against type of player. I am confident Fellaini will be here next season, especially as we will most likely have the additional CL games, even he is more of a squad player than first XI. Now Marouanne just needs to learn the secrets of Van Bommel's special immunity from being booked.

 

[SammyUnited_83]

Funny you should mention Matic. Do you think Chelsea are happy with what he's brought to their team this season?

The one time we played Chelsea Fellaini was clearly the more influential CM on the day.

Taking the season as a whole, the stats comparing the two of them make interesting reading.

To be honest, I don't watch enough of Chelsea to know how good / bad Matic is, from what I have seen he is hit and miss (more hit than miss). I was just saying I want a midfielder in the Felliani role that can be dominant, he breaks play up very well but he is pretty one dimensional and other than set pieces / crosses (shudder thinking of Moyes) I can't imagine our opposition will be too worried and have to formulate a game plan to play him.

He is good at what he does, but we need someone that can do more, I can't envisage he will be anything more than a very valuable squad player next year, which is no criticism of the player.

 

[PedroMendez]

It's a format which can make sense if you're up against a superior opponent, I would say. It makes no sense whatsoever to me as some sort of default choice, not even given the defensive frailty of Young and Valencia: If you absolutely have to field an extra body at the back, to compensate as it were, then field McNair and play Carrick as the DM.

If the logic is that you need A) a ball player/passer of the highest quality at the back and B) a defensive midfielder shielding the defence...then I'm puzzled. I can't fathom why the hell that should be necessary. And if we had looked impressive yesterday playing that system I would have gladly shut up - but we didn't. For large spells we looked porous and shaky.

Agree with most of what you are saying.

What’s even more surprising was that we didn’t play 532/352. We played 514 with Rooney in a hybrid role. Surrendering the midfield nullifies most advantages of a back5. There is no way that the team will control the match with this lineup. Its inviting pressure and allows the opponent to control midfield.

I´d understand that lineup with blind, Fellaini and Herrera in midfield and Rooney and RvP upfront. When you win the ball you can either try to hit them on the break or slow down to build up cautiously with your wingbacks and midfielder pushing forward. Anyway. I hope LvG stops with this weird lineups.

 

[Walrus]

I didn't say we will never win, I said LvG will want to win and by doing so he will want better players, we will get them? Maybe, maybe not, obviously this summer we were looking at a couple of midfielders that we didn't get, so Felliani got another chance.

Can we win the league with Felliani? absolutely but is he the top drawer midfielder that will make us a dominant team? Probably not. It's easy to get excited about the last few Felliani games, Christ I was singing his name as loud as anyone v Stoke, but lets not forget he hasn't regularly come out on top and in places last year looked completely out of his depth, especially in the Champs League.

Your original post was:

LvG wants to win the League and the Champs League, that isn't going to happen with Felliani. As much as I have been impressed with him this year, it just highlights the need for a strong, physical midfielder, right now that is Felliani but I will be shocked if he isn't upgraded come Jan / Summer.

Whatever the case, Fellaini has proved a lot of people wrong so far this season and as far as I am concerned, long may it continue. LVG is a manager who has shown good man management skills and he strikes me as someone like SAF who will want to support and mentor players, almost like a father figure at times. I personally dont think he is going to go out and buy a Strootman and abandon Fellaini as soon as the opportunity presents itself. Fellaini has largely done well this season - he has had dodgy spells in the last two games (which I do believe is at least partially due to the role/system he is being asked to fill) but has generally improved as the games have gone on.

 

[Walrus]

Agree with most of what you are saying.

What’s even more surprising was that we didn’t play 532/352. We played 514 with Rooney in a hybrid role. Surrendering the midfield nullifies most advantages of a back5. There is no way that the team will control the match with this lineup. Its inviting pressure and allows the opponent to control midfield.

I´d understand that lineup with blind, Fellaini and Herrera in midfield and Rooney and RvP upfront. When you win the ball you can either try to hit them on the break or slow down to build up cautiously with your wingbacks and midfielder pushing forward. Anyway. I hope LvG stops with this weird lineups.

Right - Fellaini was in essence the only true midfielder for most of the match. I suspect that virtually any player would struggle in those circumstances.

The average formation map helps paint this picture;

Spoiler

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/30472067

 

[golden_blunder]

But Carrick doesn't have to play CB if we drop this defensive, boring 5-3-2 formation that we haven't had a single impressive performance playing.

I'm only talking about matches that have already happened.

 

[Roboc7]

Your original post was:




Whatever the case, Fellaini has proved a lot of people wrong so far this season and as far as I am concerned, long may it continue. LVG is a manager who has shown good man management skills and he strikes me as someone like SAF who will want to support and mentor players, almost like a father figure at times. I personally dont think he is going to go out and buy a Strootman and abandon Fellaini as soon as the opportunity presents itself. Fellaini has largely done well this season - he has had dodgy spells in the last two games (which I do believe is at least partially due to the role/system he is being asked to fill) but has generally improved as the games have gone on.

Abandon isn't the right word as I think Fellaini will be kept as a squad player but LVG will definitely go out and buy a better player as soons as he can IMO, there is no need to persist with someone with Fellaini's limitations if you don't have to and as has been said previously Fellaini isn't good enough to start regularly in a team that wants to win the League and Champions League unless he improves dramatically.

 

[Thisistheone]

He is growing on me, and I recognize what he can add to the team. However, I do panic that he is going to get a red nearly every game.

One of his tackles by the sideline I thought was very close to a straight red. Against Southampton I thought he was lucky with a clear elbow. He is all elbows and legs.

Yeah, I'm worried he'll get a red sooner or later and it'll cost us. He's been very useful so far this season in all fairness but you know one incident like a red and he'll get some serious stick.

 

[Mali_Zeus]

He was one of our two CMs with the other being Rooney. Mata was further up front and could not link the play up well. When you consider this and then remember how he was basically doing nothing to help us control the game in the first half, you have to admit he was really poor.

In the 1st half he was.

 

[Kazi]

extremely limited player. won't get a sniff when blind/di maria recover.

He's started every game since he returned from injury, when both Blind and Di Maria were fit.

 

[Shamwow]

In the 1st half he was.

It wasn't even the whole of the first half to be fair to him. As soon as we scored the whole team settled, including Fellaini.

 

[ravi2]

He's started every game since he returned from injury, when both Blind and Di Maria were fit.

As soon as we sign the Stroot say bye to Fellaini.