Expedct the usual "eye test" post.
10
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 57
- Goals
- 21
- Assists
- 11
- Yellow cards
- 4
- Status
Expedct the usual "eye test" post.
He should rightfully win the young player of the year if the judges are not biased.
What's the bet he has an unbelievable Euros now everyone (including myself) have written off the possibility and claimed he's injured? I've seen it before with Rashford where he's in poor form for Utd and then turns up massively and performs for England so it wouldn't fully surprise me if he makes a big impact still.
Of course you need the "eye" test, otherwise you'd be looking at a sheet of data, wouldn't you?
Thing is, and this is why most of the fecking caffers don't get, it does not matter how many goals he is scoring when compared to other player's achievements or age, it simply doesn't.
It's like saying Werner is ahead of his peers for scoring 27 goals this season but missing 17 sitters. And first of all, ahead of who, what fecking peers does Rashford or Werner have?
A player must be analyzed based on what he is or he is not playing, not based on what others play in a different team/setup/league/age group/management/whatever the fecking thing.
He's an offensive player in quite a good team so scoring 15-20 a season is an expectation not a world class achievement.
That's what I don't get, people being okay praising him for scoring 15-20 a season, but people not being ok when he gets criticized for doing feck all in most of the games, messing most of our attacking plays or bombing into 5 defenders with his head down.
When Cristiano was doing the same utter garbage 15 years ago people were fecking sick of him after 3 games, but hey, he ain't Rashy.
Objectively, leaving the rant aside, he's a good player but he's far away of being a class one, especially considering his decision making and footballing IQ. If he sorts that out, then props to him, he's going to be one of the best.
Of course you need "Eye test", when your "Eye test" is fecking shit, it makes no sense to use "Eye Test" which is one more way to tell "I'm fecking biased"
Show me one poster who thinks Rashford is elite player, complete player and no need to improve anymore. Almost everyone thinks his output is great and there are few areas he should improve on. Then there are other set of fans with their agenda driven nonsense spouting rubbish everyday.
It's expected to score15-20 goals a season? How about making 35+ goal contributions in a season. How many ManUtd players scored 20+ goals in 2 consecutive seasons since SAF retired?
What I don't get is, why is it so hard to understand that Rashford while he lacks in some areas, has very good productivity, so much that he is in top 10 in top 5 leagues when you take out penalties. And the usual rubbish "He doesn't do anything apart from scoring or assisting" is just as tiresome as the other rant.
Also I don't know why people come up with "people are not okay with Rashford being criticized". There is criticism and there is agenda driven nonsense. There is criticism which actually talks about where he makes mistakes and then there are posts like "he always runs into the defenders, he does nothing all game" shit.
So players shouldn't be compared and rated based on their peers? That's a new one.
If he's fit enough and manages to get his confidence back, I think there is a good chance. It has always been the case that he performs more consistent for England than for United. There was more than one occasion in which he was in poor form for United but performed really well for England regardless.
I would absolutely love it if he plays a very good euros. But when he gets the chance, he has to perform. With all the other options in the attacking positions, a performance like Villarreal would transfer him to the bench immediately I feel.
So it could easily go either way.
Yeh that’s a fair point. He has more competition for his position in that England settup then he does at Utd. Agreed he won’t get away with poor showings. I still do think he offers something all those other English attackers lack, real pace. It’s all well and good having the technically brilliant players but all good teams need to combine that with some pace and Rashford will be unique in that regard. Hope his body holds up.
Not only the pace, but Rashford suits that England attack better than the others because his playstyle. Almost the inverse of United, Sancho, Grealish, Foden are all creative wide players/playmakers. Sterling is a pure dribbler but he's been well off form. Kane in the middle who likes dropping deep and can add creativity, and you really need Rashford making runs on the other side in behind. So many of the England players are interchangeable with what they do, but Rashford is unique in his style and ability so thats why I think he starts if fit.
Yeh very much agree with this too. I’ve seen plenty of lineup predictions in this thread with Grealish on one side and foden on the other. Would I like to see it? Yes. Do I think it will work regularly? No. There’s no real penetration there in behind.
Wow guess this off season is the shit on Bruno and Rashford off season 
Funny how people just love to ignore their productivity and brush it off as nothing and say anyone could get it. If they could, they would. Van Gaal really did a number on some people here, have them still shitting on the only players who take risks and try things and as a result also score and assist more than anyone in our squad. You'll see shit like "flukey" goals or assists apparently. And then you come back and show them how their underlying stats are actually still quite good, but they come back with "nope, we failed as a team and it's all on them".
Picking out your main and best players as targets of criticisms that aren't good enough while ignoring that the weaker links around them actually have a bigger part to play in the collective failure is such a mind boggling thing going on here. Our midfield duo is distinctly average at best, our creativity from the entire right side is non existent regardless of what player we play there, and as a unit we aren't really one that sets our players up in great positions. It's not like we have Pep Guardiola in charge who is a cheat code for wide forwards and attacking wingers. Despite that, we have 2 years of both Rashford and Bruno being brilliantly productive and pretty much carrying the attack. And then people love to dismiss the fact that they are blatantly overplayed, especially Rashford who's been pushing through knocks all season after literally getting a spinal stress fracture from being overplayed last season. And despite that, he's still made himself available when others have been injured for a while, he's still been more productive than anyone bar Bruno, but sure, he's been inconsistent. How the feck can't people see his potential though between the productivity, and the level of performances he can reach between this season and last season? Last season especially he was more consistent as he's had to struggle through this one, but he's still put up very good underlying stats. He's an excellent wide forward and just needs to be managed better to get a better level out of him, along with naturally improving our all round team so we are more balanced.
Anyway, thankfully everyone who matters absolutely adores Rashford and he is pretty much a guarantee to be a fixture in our lineup for the foreseeable future. We need quality depth so we can rotate things of course, but he absolutely should not be replaced as he is a very good wide forward who is capable of being a world class one, while already having world class productivity.
Funny how people just love to ignore their productivity and brush it off as nothing and say anyone could get it. If they could, they would. Van Gaal really did a number on some people here, have them still shitting on the only players who take risks and try things and as a result also score and assist more than anyone in our squad. You'll see shit like "flukey" goals or assists apparently. And then you come back and show them how their underlying stats are actually still quite good, but they come back with "nope, we failed as a team and it's all on them".
Picking out your main and best players as targets of criticisms that aren't good enough while ignoring that the weaker links around them actually have a bigger part to play in the collective failure is such a mind boggling thing going on here. Our midfield duo is distinctly average at best, our creativity from the entire right side is non existent regardless of what player we play there, and as a unit we aren't really one that sets our players up in great positions. It's not like we have Pep Guardiola in charge who is a cheat code for wide forwards and attacking wingers. Despite that, we have 2 years of both Rashford and Bruno being brilliantly productive and pretty much carrying the attack. And then people love to dismiss the fact that they are blatantly overplayed, especially Rashford who's been pushing through knocks all season after literally getting a spinal stress fracture from being overplayed last season. And despite that, he's still made himself available when others have been injured for a while, he's still been more productive than anyone bar Bruno, but sure, he's been inconsistent. How the feck can't people see his potential though between the productivity, and the level of performances he can reach between this season and last season? Last season especially he was more consistent as he's had to struggle through this one, but he's still put up very good underlying stats. He's an excellent wide forward and just needs to be managed better to get a better level out of him, along with naturally improving our all round team so we are more balanced.
Anyway, thankfully everyone who matters absolutely adores Rashford and he is pretty much a guarantee to be a fixture in our lineup for the foreseeable future. We need quality depth so we can rotate things of course, but he absolutely should not be replaced as he is a very good wide forward who is capable of being a world class one, while already having world class productivity.
Yup. Even with United teams, people say "get both Grealish and Sancho". You need a hell of a #9 that not even Harry Kane can be to properly funnel everything through him only and be successful as a team. Teams need a balance of creativity and penetration/shooting/directness from their attack. England has Kane to be the #9, and then the other penetrative player could be between Greenwood (if he was fit), Rashford, and at a stretch Sterling with his movement, but he's more a hybrid. The creative side you're looking at Sancho, Grealish or Foden. And then Mount is somewhere in between the 2 and can't really do the wings anyway.
Not to mention national team managers should look for partnerships. Maguire already has an excellent partnership with Shaw, who has an excellent partnership with Rashford and will balance it out really well. On the right you can put Stones/Walker/Sterling or Foden and keep that chemistry with City players. Players that compliment each others strengths and play styles. Not just a group of playmakers with none of them running in behind.
Wow guess this off season is the shit on Bruno and Rashford off season
Funny how people just love to ignore their productivity and brush it off as nothing and say anyone could get it. If they could, they would. Van Gaal really did a number on some people here, have them still shitting on the only players who take risks and try things and as a result also score and assist more than anyone in our squad. You'll see shit like "flukey" goals or assists apparently. And then you come back and show them how their underlying stats are actually still quite good, but they come back with "nope, we failed as a team and it's all on them".
Picking out your main and best players as targets of criticisms that aren't good enough while ignoring that the weaker links around them actually have a bigger part to play in the collective failure is such a mind boggling thing going on here. Our midfield duo is distinctly average at best, our creativity from the entire right side is non existent regardless of what player we play there, and as a unit we aren't really one that sets our players up in great positions. It's not like we have Pep Guardiola in charge who is a cheat code for wide forwards and attacking wingers. Despite that, we have 2 years of both Rashford and Bruno being brilliantly productive and pretty much carrying the attack. And then people love to dismiss the fact that they are blatantly overplayed, especially Rashford who's been pushing through knocks all season after literally getting a spinal stress fracture from being overplayed last season. And despite that, he's still made himself available when others have been injured for a while, he's still been more productive than anyone bar Bruno, but sure, he's been inconsistent. How the feck can't people see his potential though between the productivity, and the level of performances he can reach between this season and last season? Last season especially he was more consistent as he's had to struggle through this one, but he's still put up very good underlying stats. He's an excellent wide forward and just needs to be managed better to get a better level out of him, along with naturally improving our all round team so we are more balanced.
Anyway, thankfully everyone who matters absolutely adores Rashford and he is pretty much a guarantee to be a fixture in our lineup for the foreseeable future. We need quality depth so we can rotate things of course, but he absolutely should not be replaced as he is a very good wide forward who is capable of being a world class one, while already having world class productivity.
Apparently it's nothing if attacking player scores 15-20 goals in a season, even though Rashford is the only player who scored 20+ goals in 2 consecutive seasons since SAF retired or maybe few years even before that.
36 goals + assists, that puts him in top 10 in top 5 leagues (non penalty goals) but somehow that's not good enough.
In last 2 seasons, only 6 players have contributed to more goals than Rashford in league but apparently being 7th on the list means he is at the bottom of the list and it's average.
What about lukaku who everyone absolutely hated? 55 goal involvements in 96 games! By your reasoning hes simply one of the best players we’ve had in years (and in far less minutes than Rashford by the way) but fans couldn’t get rid of him fast enough because his game sucks to watch and he ruins way more chances than he converts. Just like Rashford. Past numbers are nice to look at but from a practical standpoint how many of those goal involvements does he have since January. About 3?
Seeing as you love talking about agenda posting you can’t even bring yourself to admit he’s gone off the boil and held us back when it’s there for all to see.
Agree with this. But that doesn't mean he has to play all the time. If England faces low blocks, I would prefer Grealish/Foden/Sancho on the flanks. But as soon as the games opens up, I'm sure he will be very useful.
A lot depends on Southgate and if he plays the right players in the right match situations.
Without any research, I'm sure it's more around 10 than 3.
Edit: Did some research, he has 16 goal involvements since the beginning of january in all competitions.
Lukaku was shit in the second season and wanted to leave, on top of that he was fecking overweight for a professional footballer.
Starting from Feb, he has 13 goal involvements. Now what?
He still thinks Rashford scored 1 league goal this calendar year.
Sounds familiar. He has 4 goals in the league coming into the business end. If you think that’s top stuff then you’re wrong.
From 1 goal, to 3 goal contribution to 4 goals
From start of Feb (not sure why feb for some weird reasons), he has 9 goals + assists in league in 14 starts + 2 games as sub.
oof.
he’s been banging on comparing him to players in the CL and he’s chasing them. I can’t remember the last match Rashford won for us. I remember the recent ones he lost us walking around. I blame the manager more to be perfectly honest.
From 1 goal, to 3 goal contribution to 4 goals
From start of Feb (not sure why feb for some weird reasons), he has 9 goals + assists in league in 14 starts + 2 games as sub.
he has 4 league goals since January after playing pretty much every game. This is also while not working off the ball at all and consistently making poor decisions when we probably could have capitalised. Hardly good enough form to win anything for us is it? If it’s just numbers you’re using then lukaku is a far more effective player but we both know that’s not true. There’s much more to the game than just numbers. this unfit walking around Rashford is a major part of the reason we became so predictable and frustrating in must win games.
At least improvement from the last post, 4 league goals from 1 league goal. Not sure when you will understand what goal contribution is and how is it different from goals.
Yeah Lukaku is far more effective player with less goal contributions and with worse mins per G+A (even excluding penalties)
Lukaku's problem was he had a long track record of being detrimental to teams in big games and a really bad record in them. His record in the remaining 70% of games is great to have and exactly what you want. You just also want that record to extend to big games. Rashford so happens to have a great big game record since he broke through. And isn't a central striker who is almost entirely reliant on the numbers. The numbers put Rashford in an elite tier because of how few wide players can actually hit those marks. Also
, 3 goal involvements since January? He's got 14 according to whoscored, after 20 in the first half of the season. There's no doubting he lost form in the latter parts of the season, it happens when you play through injuries and never get a break and the team had no usable depth to rotate him with.Yeah that's true. Generally though the nature of international competitions and England, it's more likely that the games against weaker sides will only be Czech republic and Scotland which shouldn't be a big problem whatever the set up, and then the remaining games will all be against tough teams who can all dominate the midfield/control the ball better than England so they'll likely be playing on the break anyway.
Lukaku's problem was he had a long track record of being detrimental to teams in big games and a really bad record in them. His record in the remaining 70% of games is great to have and exactly what you want. You just also want that record to extend to big games. Rashford so happens to have a great big game record since he broke through. And isn't a central striker who is almost entirely reliant on the numbers. The numbers put Rashford in an elite tier because of how few wide players can actually hit those marks. Also
Yeah I’ll hold my hands up and I’ll admit I was wrong about the g/a. I’m obviously getting my wires crossed and unintentionally missed the assists
Sorry @roonster09 I’m posting in good faith even if we don’t agree.2021 has been a poor year from him and no doubt it’s hurt us. WBA Sheffield United Palace away and the final. All very very winnable games and he was our worst player in all of them. Shooting instead of passing. Dribbling instead of passing. I can’t think of one time he laid it off when he had half a chance of a shot apart from to Shaw at city. Not putting in enough work off the ball to make space for others. Arguing with team mates over his lack of effort. Maguire and Cavani running rings around him. Looking pissed off in general and I think it rubs off on the group when there’s a leading player who isn’t fully at it.
I majorly blame the manager for overusing him by the time the final came around but palace wba and Sheffield utd were months back now and if he’s actually fit enough to go to the euros at this stage then I don’t really get the fitness excuse back then with much less games played and no rest since….
There's so many posters on here who seem to want Rashford to be above criticism. Saying he's shite or should be in the Championship is one thing but from what I can see his critics point to his poor performances and decision making which is totally fair. When Rashford has been poor, people will come in here and highlight that.
What seems to happen now is if you question Rashford being good enough, you get statbombed to death about his G+A numbers. You have to understand Rashford has been given invincible status in our team ever since Ole arrived, he starts every game and rarely gets subbed. By this token, his stats should be good just as they were for Lukaku in his first season when Jose gave him the keys to our attack. I recall plenty of posters having an issue with Lukaku despite having 36 goal contributions (27G+9A). Interestingly enough, Rashford also has 36 goal contributions (21G+11A) in roughly the same minutes.
The way I see things, Rashford's situation is no different to Lukaku's. Very good players but not good enough to be given the keys to our attack. Despite the good numbers, we ended up trophyless in both seasons and both didn't deliver in the moment's we needed them most. Criticising Lukaku on here was pretty much fair game in the summer of 2018, even though he had staunch supporters but for some reason many posters on here can't even seem to comprehend Rashford criticism. The only difference between the two players is one is homegrown and liked by the fans while the other is admittedly pretty unlikeable. You could point to Lukaku's horrible first touch and breaking down attacks, but Rashford's decision making and overdribbling is just as bad, one just looks worse than the other.
With all that said, I'm not advocating for Rashford to be sold, not at all. I think he has a lot to offer the team, I just don't believe in the invincible status he's been given and don't think he's beyond fighting for his place in the team, especially when performing poorly which he has for stretches of the season. This was also my issue with Lukaku, I'd have kept him if he wasn't a toxic baby and have him compete with Martial as Cavani has done this season but his ego obviously couldn't take it.
What seems to happen now is if you question Rashford being good enough, you get statbombed to death about his G+A numbers. You have to understand Rashford has been given invincible status in our team ever since Ole arrived, he starts every game and rarely gets subbed. By this token, his stats should be good just as they were for Lukaku in his first season when Jose gave him the keys to our attack. I recall plenty of posters having an issue with Lukaku despite having 36 goal contributions (27G+9A). Interestingly enough, Rashford also has 36 goal contributions (21G+11A) in roughly the same minutes.
The way I see things, Rashford's situation is no different to Lukaku's. Very good players but not good enough to be given the keys to our attack. Despite the good numbers, we ended up trophyless in both seasons and both didn't deliver in the moment's we needed them most. Criticising Lukaku on here was pretty much fair game in the summer of 2018, even though he had staunch supporters but for some reason many posters on here can't even seem to comprehend Rashford criticism. The only difference between the two players is one is homegrown and liked by the fans while the other is admittedly pretty unlikeable. You could point to Lukaku's horrible first touch and breaking down attacks, but Rashford's decision making and overdribbling is just as bad, one just looks worse than the other.
With all that said, I'm not advocating for Rashford to be sold, not at all. I think he has a lot to offer the team, I just don't believe in the invincible status he's been given and don't think he's beyond fighting for his place in the team, especially when performing poorly which he has for stretches of the season. This was also my issue with Lukaku, I'd have kept him if he wasn't a toxic baby and have him compete with Martial as Cavani has done this season but his ego obviously couldn't take it.
I could see him playing well, but I’d be shocked if he was taking over games at the Euros. More likely is he’ll have some production while his overall game will be substandard/passive. The team around him is stacked in attacking/creative talent so scoring/assisting a few wouldn’t surprise me at all
He’s not as good as the top reds here on the caf think he is, but he’s not as bad as the “Rashford” lot think he is either. He’s just a good player who is still young & will improve. He’s inconsistent & his decision making isn’t great, but that’s often the case with flair players.
He & Sterling don’t deserve to start based on form, but I wouldn’t be surprised if at least one does.
He & Sterling don’t deserve to start based on form, but I wouldn’t be surprised if at least one does.
Recently, too manipulative for my liking!
If you have physical limitations, get treatment. Don't bring it up after a final loss while claiming it is not an excuse, and how hurt you are as a manc - then in the same week run off to your PR work and politics. If he was really that pure into giving, it would translate on the pitch and not try to be deliberately selfish and frustrating in his plays.
If he is really injured or has physical limitations, then he should not be selfish about hoarding a place that another fit player can take at Club and Country, one player who is also his mate - Lingard; unless he is manipulating us!
If you have physical limitations, get treatment. Don't bring it up after a final loss while claiming it is not an excuse, and how hurt you are as a manc - then in the same week run off to your PR work and politics. If he was really that pure into giving, it would translate on the pitch and not try to be deliberately selfish and frustrating in his plays.
If he is really injured or has physical limitations, then he should not be selfish about hoarding a place that another fit player can take at Club and Country, one player who is also his mate - Lingard; unless he is manipulating us!
I agree with all of this. Well said. Id like to add I majorly respect and admire his off the pitch exploits, it has nothing to do with that. More power to him. On the pitch I just want to see all of our players work really hard for each other especially when we are losing or struggling to get going. If you want to win stuff you cant have players walking around and not expect to get caught out by less talented players who are just far more up for it. Dribbling into a crowd is literally bread and butter to defenders in a low block. Sancho will hopefully come in and ease that burden anyway.
I would be very surprised if he takes the euros by storm given his recent form and quotes after the final. I doubt any team will be naive enough to give England much room in behind.
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Rashford had a great start to the season but has been awful since the turn of the year. His stats still look good, but its also worth looking in a little more detail at who he has actually been scoring against and where. I'm using the Premier League stats primarily, because that tends to be the most consistent indicator.
Rashford has 11 league goals this season, and of them the majority have been against shit teams. They also dont always reflect the actual performance - in the Liverpool game he was utterly awful but eventually popped up with a goal which masked the performance. Assists are a similar story - from 11 league assists, aside from the one against City they have all been against largely mediocre/crap teams. Rashford has not performed in the big games this season.
Defensively, there are fewer stats to use as reference points, but we have all seen the clips and videos of Rashford failing to track back, failing to do his defensive duties. Rashford has been a little fortunate that Shaw has been in such great form this season, and has been defending really well as well as supporting him in attack. Rashford honestly just looks extremely lazy right now. I dont know whether that is due to injury etc, and honestly I dont really care - if he is making himself available for selection then he has to be judged by his performances (although you can also argue that Ole should be to blame for picking him).
Rashford has 11 league goals this season, and of them the majority have been against shit teams. They also dont always reflect the actual performance - in the Liverpool game he was utterly awful but eventually popped up with a goal which masked the performance. Assists are a similar story - from 11 league assists, aside from the one against City they have all been against largely mediocre/crap teams. Rashford has not performed in the big games this season.
Defensively, there are fewer stats to use as reference points, but we have all seen the clips and videos of Rashford failing to track back, failing to do his defensive duties. Rashford has been a little fortunate that Shaw has been in such great form this season, and has been defending really well as well as supporting him in attack. Rashford honestly just looks extremely lazy right now. I dont know whether that is due to injury etc, and honestly I dont really care - if he is making himself available for selection then he has to be judged by his performances (although you can also argue that Ole should be to blame for picking him).
A fair assessment.
Just for the record, in the PL it was 11 goals and 9 assists, in total this season.
He had a stuttering start to the season in the PL, with a mixture of good moments mixed with indifferent or poor performances.
He didn’t make much of an impact until December, when in 6 games, he scored 5 PL goals, provided 1 assist and showed up a bit more.
From Jan 1st to the end of the season, we played 23 PL games ( 4 games more than half a season).
Rashford played in 22 of those games.
In that period he scored 4 goals and was accredited with 5 assists.
.
Good decision and with Martial back and Sancho probable, I don't see why we should be playing him injured.
— Marcus Rashford is planning to undergo surgery after Euro 2020. He has struggled all season with foot and shoulder injuries.
Rashford plans to have surgery on his foot as he recognizes its the best way forward #mufc #mujournal
Rashford plans to have surgery on his foot as he recognizes its the best way forward #mufc #mujournal
I love Rashford but this decision is setting himself up for major criticism next season if his so-so form from the back-end of this season continues. We were continually fed lines about him playing through injuries and to take that into context when judging his performances yet now, with a perfect opportunity to finally rest up and get his injuries (plural) sorted, he’s spending the summer debilitating himself even further and we might not see him until November or December.
Great.
Great.
as United fans obviously we want him to sit the Euro's out but you've got to remember for him as a player this is a big deal in his career, England could in theory win the thing
The kid also has to take care of his injured shoulder as well.
There were too many incidents last season where he avoided physical contact and encounters because of this injury.
There were too many incidents last season where he avoided physical contact and encounters because of this injury.
Correct and I understand the predicament he’s in. International tournaments when you’ve got a realistic shot of winning them don’t come around very often for players. However, we are United fans and he’s a United player and for months we were told to put his performances into perspective as he’s carrying all sorts of injuries and now he’s going to go through another gruelling 4-5 weeks before finally getting the surgeries he requires, which rules him out further into our new season.
There’s going to be a bit of pressure on him when he returns as people will expect first rate performances from him with a clean bill of health and with his Euros decision compounding that, it’s going to be difficult for Marcus to live up to expectations, IMO.
This just proves you were the same person with zero knowledge and rational expectations back then as you are now.
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