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2016-17 Performances


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yes i do think it would benefit Rashford to go on loan.

players get better by playing, i look at this team and all i see is Rashford getting cameo's as a sub every few games in a variety of positions, very few experienced players manage to keep up a high level of performance in those circumstances, so expecting young player to do that is unrealistic and he certinly isn't going to improve to a level where he is more "capable both mentally and physically to play in this team" then he is now in those circumstances.

but maybe your right that Rashford would have got burned with pressure of going into the season as been the main striker for a team aiming to win the premier league, though i would still rather of seen us sign a player Rashford could compete with, because everyone knows that Ibrahimovic is gonna play, weather his form dips or not Ibrahimovic will play, after a while that is going to knock a kids confidence, no matter how good an attitude he has.

As for it been a stop gap, with all the talk of Ibrahimovic been here next season, that isnt a stop gap.

So we need to find Rashford regular minutes, and if we could find the right loan club, where their wuldn't be too much pressure on him where he would start and had the right manager to work with, none of which im saying would be easy, but it is worth a try becuase he is not going to progress this season with the amount of football he is going to get.

As for Martial been our back up striker if we did loan out Rashford, then who replaces Martial as our left winger? Memphis hasn't shown he is anywhere near up to the standard, and the only other option is young, and while i think Young is an ok squad player i don't think he should be a regular starter, plus we have to take into account that Martial has been playing mainly on the wing for a year it will probably take him time to adapt to playing up front again. we could use Rooney, but he hasn't scored consistently in a few years, so yes i think if we loaned Rashford we would need to bring in a back up striker.

Also i don't play football manager or fifa, and i don't think every time you suggest we might need to make 1 signing it means you think of the game like football manager :p


No I don't think it would benefit Rashford to go on a loan.

He is getting subbed in just until cups and Europa League starts, then we will have to use the whole squad including him, and he will definately get more starts than he is now. After all we are talking about 2 games, you need to wait at least until season starts before making assumptions about him not starting any game, sure he did not start these 2 games, but again it is just the league, and the team is not yet overloaded with games where he is not needed and if he started instead of Ibrahimovic he would be put against so much pressure to perform well. He will get his chances in cups, Europa League and sometimes in the league to perform and improve to a level that he can handle the pressure of being the main striker, and whilst being at the club he will learn from, literally, the best.

So you mean we should sign someone who is not as good as Ibrahimovic so Rashford could compete with him for the spot? He would probably still get the same amount of games he will get this season.

If Zlatan's form dips he will be put under heavy pressure that he is used to after playing all those years in high profile clubs and it is perfectly fine because he was bought so that Rashford doesn't get put under any pressure, but Zlatan does. Imagine if instead of Ibrahimovic we had Rashford as our main striker going for the Premier League title. Rashford is under huge pressure from everyone to perform since the club and the manager believe in him and his form dips, he is put under even more pressure to perform well since we don't have an adequate replacement for him which will probably hinder his development and will not reach the heights he is expected to. So after one failed season we buy a striker so we don't have to rely heavily on Rashford and that striker starts hitting Rashford's confidence even more. I guess he could be a success in his first season but then he would be so young put under pressure in his second, or third if we count the debut one, season to perform really well. Why take the risk if you can take one of the best strikers in the world Ibrahimovic. All the pressure will be on Ibrahimovic to perform well and Rashford will not be put under any pressure and will be free to develop and learn from Ibrahimovic while starting in cups and Europa league and getting subbed on in the league.

A stop gap is 2 years, you have to remember Rashford is 19, do you really think he would be able to develop normally under huge pressure the next season, especially with the English media?

He is going to get plenty of football when cups start and Ibrahimovic needs rest since he is 34.

Young has shown he can do the job on the left wing consistently and that he does it really well, plus you take another factor of Mourinho coming in and him improving. Memphis could be given the chance as well and he would maybe take it, Mkhitaryan can play on the left as well, so basically we have plenty of options and bringing in just a back up striker is a waste of money IMO, he will probably get sold in a couple of seasons because nobody likes to play from the bench and as a back up striker forever.

So basically if Rashford isn't loaned out he can play up front as a nr 9, on the wings or as a nr 10 and I'm sure he would find plenty of minutes for this season to show what he is capable of. He will train under the best coaches in the world and is tutored by one of the best strikers in the world.

Many people on here do and think the best way to do everything is just to sell the whole starting 11 and buy a new one before the next season...
 
I can't say I have honestly seen him display "raw" dribbling at any stage in the season. Nothing I would say I haven't seen elite players do in terms of losing control or anything. Anything specific? Any particular games or moments that stand out for you in that respect?

Well, pretty much majority the games he played last season, to me those dribbles are raw dribbles everything with pure speed and power. Not a typical winger's dribble. If you expect me to say a proper dribble for a winger, have a look at Sanchez, Ronaldo, Martial, Robben, etc.
 
Feck a loan. We will need him this season. Especially in games we are being frustrated.
 
Loan? What he is literally the only other capable striker we have if you consider Martial a LW.
 
He will get chances once September comes along right after the internationals. Carling Cup and Europa League starting. Im not worried about his game time.
 
There will be enough games for him to play. He's still a kid, this role is perfect for him long-term.

I still remember what SAF said about Michael Owen playing too many games too young, so in that respect we should be careful with Rashford.
 
No I don't think it would benefit Rashford to go on a loan.

He is getting subbed in just until cups and Europa League starts, then we will have to use the whole squad including him, and he will definately get more starts than he is now. After all we are talking about 2 games, you need to wait at least until season starts before making assumptions about him not starting any game, sure he did not start these 2 games, but again it is just the league, and the team is not yet overloaded with games where he is not needed and if he started instead of Ibrahimovic he would be put against so much pressure to perform well. He will get his chances in cups, Europa League and sometimes in the league to perform and improve to a level that he can handle the pressure of being the main striker, and whilst being at the club he will learn from, literally, the best.

So you mean we should sign someone who is not as good as Ibrahimovic so Rashford could compete with him for the spot? He would probably still get the same amount of games he will get this season.

If Zlatan's form dips he will be put under heavy pressure that he is used to after playing all those years in high profile clubs and it is perfectly fine because he was bought so that Rashford doesn't get put under any pressure, but Zlatan does. Imagine if instead of Ibrahimovic we had Rashford as our main striker going for the Premier League title. Rashford is under huge pressure from everyone to perform since the club and the manager believe in him and his form dips, he is put under even more pressure to perform well since we don't have an adequate replacement for him which will probably hinder his development and will not reach the heights he is expected to. So after one failed season we buy a striker so we don't have to rely heavily on Rashford and that striker starts hitting Rashford's confidence even more. I guess he could be a success in his first season but then he would be so young put under pressure in his second, or third if we count the debut one, season to perform really well. Why take the risk if you can take one of the best strikers in the world Ibrahimovic. All the pressure will be on Ibrahimovic to perform well and Rashford will not be put under any pressure and will be free to develop and learn from Ibrahimovic while starting in cups and Europa league and getting subbed on in the league.

A stop gap is 2 years, you have to remember Rashford is 19, do you really think he would be able to develop normally under huge pressure the next season, especially with the English media?

He is going to get plenty of football when cups start and Ibrahimovic needs rest since he is 34.

Young has shown he can do the job on the left wing consistently and that he does it really well, plus you take another factor of Mourinho coming in and him improving. Memphis could be given the chance as well and he would maybe take it, Mkhitaryan can play on the left as well, so basically we have plenty of options and bringing in just a back up striker is a waste of money IMO, he will probably get sold in a couple of seasons because nobody likes to play from the bench and as a back up striker forever.

So basically if Rashford isn't loaned out he can play up front as a nr 9, on the wings or as a nr 10 and I'm sure he would find plenty of minutes for this season to show what he is capable of. He will train under the best coaches in the world and is tutored by one of the best strikers in the world.

Many people on here do and think the best way to do everything is just to sell the whole starting 11 and buy a new one before the next season...
saying its only two games we can't make assumptions Rashford isnt going to start isnt right, no one anywhere expects Rashford to start regularly in the league this season. So pretending he might is pointless.

and yes i think he will be allowed to progress on loan, he goes to a team that is mid table and plays every week, he will be far less under the spot light then forced to make an impression in substitute appearances.

i think you under estimate the amount of pressure Rashford is going to be sitting on the bench, wait till the England squads start coming out, and Rashford is only a sub most league games, then the pressure will start, because every time Rashford comes on his performances will be scrutinised their will be head lines about whether he is right to be dropped, whether he is another in the long line of promising young english players who burst on to the seen then fade away.

but your right he may be saved by the Eruopa league, if Mourinho puts out a full strength(or nearly) team except with Rashford up front instead of Ibrahimovic, and sticks to that right the way through the tournament and we get far into it then their is a point to keep Rashford this season. But if he doesnt start Rashford, or starts Rashford in a weak team that has spent weeks sitting on the bench and isnt match sharp and isnt going to take the Europa league seriously (which lets face it happens 9 times out of 10 when a big club plays in that competition) then those games are in know way going to help his progression as they end up been more like friendlies then real games.

So for me i'd still rather see the kid playing every week learning the league, making mistakes and learning from them, and the only way i can see that happening is on loan.

well i never suggested we should buy a whole new team, all i said was we should loan out one player because it will be good for him long term and and get in a back up player, hardly replacing the whole team.

Anyway it pointless debating it, he isn't going to be loaned out, so we just have to hope that we don't ruin this kid by not giving him the amount of competive game time you need to improve, and we arn't all sitting here next season or the year after going what happened to Rashford.....
 
Really not liking the fact that the kid is not getting minutes at all.

Jose has to cut down a bit on his pragmatism if he wants to succeed here long term.
 
Really not liking the fact that the kid is not getting minutes at all.

Jose has to cut down a bit on his pragmatism.

Far too early to panic. He wasn't supposed to be playing so much like last season.

He'll be played in league cup games and will make a few sub appearances.
 
I think Jose simply wants to give the kid extra rest and let him focus on training. He's had a crazy last 7-8 months with playing every game in LvG's team without any rest at all and then off to the Euro.
 
Seriously?

Zlatan was on a hat trick, so why take him off? Once Europa league starts he'd get minutes.

Can't believe some people on here. Always moaning about everything.
 
Not even getting on the pitch. Doesn't help that he's subs are always defensive. Please give my boy minutes.
 
Really not liking the fact that the kid is not getting minutes at all.

Jose has to cut down a bit on his pragmatism if he wants to succeed here long term.
It's just the 2nd game of the league ffs.
 
Just wait until the fixture list starts piling up. He'll get plenty of game time.
 
not impressed about his lack of games.

Jose can spout this "Zltan is a gift to Rashford" stuff all he likes, but this kid needs to be on the field.
 
not impressed about his lack of games.

Jose can spout this "Zltan is a gift to Rashford" stuff all he likes, but this kid needs to be on the field.
Rashford's development isn't more important than winning.
 
not impressed about his lack of games.

Jose can spout this "Zltan is a gift to Rashford" stuff all he likes, but this kid needs to be on the field.
Two games in and 6 points in those games with Zlatan scoring 3 out of 5 of our goals, and you're complaining about Rashford not getting game time?

He'll get plenty of playing time when Europa League, League Cup and even the FA Cup comes around. Same can be said about Mkhitaryan - he'll get enough playing time as well, once the season really kicks off.
 
Thing for Rashers is that replacing Zlatan is near impossible. The power and the presence is one thing, but the fear he he puts in the opponents and the confidence he gives his teammates is just second to none.

Ideally we should get them on the pitch at the same time, Zlatan bossing it with his takedowns and flicks with Rashers running onto them will be hard to stop.
 
He will get plenty of game time in the Europa League, FA Cup and Capital One.

Jose said it today as well, he can't wait for September to come so all players get to play.

I am keen to watch his development as much as everyone, but truth is we need to be patient - busy schedule ahead.
 
I would love to see him up top with Zlatan in behind.
 
He'll get games as the season gets going. Right now the most important thing is getting a strong start to the season.
 
Weird why he is. Not even getting sub minutes yet?

Can totally see him being rusty when he gets a chance and then as a result dropped again.
 
Ideally we should get them on the pitch at the same time, Zlatan bossing it with his takedowns and flicks with Rashers running onto them will be hard to stop.

Well it's not complicated. Mata out Rashford in. Combine that with getting Miki on for Rooney and you've got the pace of mind and body to actually counter-attack the way Mourinho wanted.
 
We'd be lethal on the counter with Rashford instead of Rooney. I don't understand why this isn't attempted towards the end of the game.
 
Weird why he is. Not even getting sub minutes yet?

Can totally see him being rusty when he gets a chance and then as a result dropped again.

Relax. Jose is a vastly better man manager than LVG so he won't just drop him in the deep end. As much as I'm a fan of Ibra, PL defenses are different from France and they will inevitably adjust to him. When that happens and if he has a dry spell, Rashford will get plenty of chances.

I think we often forget how young he is. He's still a kid in the literal sense of the word.
 
Weird why he is. Not even getting sub minutes yet?

Can totally see him being rusty when he gets a chance and then as a result dropped again.

Minutes will come its just the start and Mourinho can only make 3 subs a game. So some players will always be left out.
 
I said it last season, the way he was fast-tracked into the first team is not beneficial to his fundamental development. He probably should have gone on loan this season because playing 40+ games and being the main player in his already fast-tracked career would be more beneficial physically to being enth choice and coming in here and there. But having said and while thinking that, I trust Jose. Mentally being around the club/AM/WR/Zlatan is a good thing and he will be learning.

Any other manager that didn't have my personal fan trust and I'd be convinced that not playing as much football as he can be playing at this age is detrimental. Trust Jose, all players need time and patience.
 
I said it last season, the way he was fast-tracked into the first team is not beneficial to his fundamental development. He probably should have gone on loan this season because playing 40+ games and being the main player in his already fast-tracked career would be more beneficial physically to being enth choice and coming in here and there. But having said and while thinking that, I trust Jose. Mentally being around the club/AM/WR/Zlatan is a good thing and he will be learning.

Any other manager that didn't have my personal fan trust and I'd be convinced that not playing as much football as he can be playing at this age is detrimental. Trust Jose, all players need time and patience.

Meh, I feel like players not playing and getting shipped out on loan is a tad overrated if they're top class. Pele was tearing it up at 17. Messi and Ronaldo were tipped to be big stars as teenagers, and were the best in the world by their early 20's. Guys like Aguero and Torres were very good goalscorers from a young age. Even someone like Pogba was doing superbly at Juventus at a young age.

If we're going for a lower but still very good top English striker level at which we hope Rashford can reach, then you've got guys like Michael Owen and Robbie Fowler who blossomed early in their careers. Some blossom later, but I think it's ideal to put an excellent prospect into plenty of first team action if you think he's good enough.

I still think he'll get plenty of time this season, though, due to the number of games we could have when you factor in Europa League etc.
 
I still think he'll get plenty of time this season, though, due to the number of games we could have when you factor in Europa League etc.
I think 40+ solid games at 18 and having barely played any high level junior and senior football is better than the scraps off of the first team in this fast tracked scenario. His situation is completely unique though, essentially if Van Gaal knew how to build a squad and manage it properly then we wouldn't be seeing him on the radar at minimum until next year (maybe this year) and the year after that. It is not as if he is in the same situation as James Wilson, completely tearing it up and steamrolling junior football but unable to make the physical step-up at senior level. JW is in genuine need of physical development in those aspects to be ready for the first team. I still think Rashford needs games in the "main man" mentality. Even if it is just for one season.

Much of a muchness though, like I said. A lot of these little aspects have been relegated to the back of my mind due to the "jose knows" mentality. It is a great feeling not to have to run footballing decisions through "Gaalscript Tactical Compiler" just to understand what the flying feck he's doing.
 
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