Marcos Alonso to stop taking the knee

Just giving my two cents here: Gestures like these are aimed at subtly changing the mindsets and norms of the society. But unity matters here. If the gesture itself becomes (or already is) politicised then it can become really ineffectual and even further cause divisions. So in this regard it is really poor form of Marcos Alonso. If (IF) he truly believes racism is a problem then fight it with tools available. It doesn't really cost him to do much.
 
DOTA said:
As a white bloke I look around at all my teammates, many of them black, making a protest against anti-black racism, using a gesture steeped in the modern history of black protest. I think 'you know, I reckon I'll point at a badge instead'.
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100%
 
Cheimoon said:
What political movement? In case you mean some Black Lives Matter organization (rather than simply the slogan): the EPL abandoned that a year ago, taking a knee is now done in support the EPL's own anti-racism campaign.

I don't follow. How did it create more problems than it followed?
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After england game against Austria there were racism incidents increased multiple times. Yeah it's all started with symbolisms but it in fact made things worse for minorities in that country.After england team came out from that country racism crimes increased multiple times. All victims were traumatized. I am not against anti racism symbolism.

All I want to say, do things meaningful and helpful way for real victims and make superstars like Christiano Salah kdb kante to help educate young kids. That's really helpful to society in my opinion.

Kids look up those super stars and they can instill this anti racism feel in their mind.
 
If the majority of the victims of racism feel that taking the knee is a part, even if its a very small part, of a push against racism, Then what the problem? Effin white saviour snowflake morons,
 
kouroux said:
If Alonso had proposed to come with something stronger and more meaningful than a lame badge pointing then I'd understand his reasons.
I do agree that kneeling before games is just part of process now and not much thought is given to the act by the masses but you cannot come back with something much less significant in terms of gesture as a replacement. That's extremely stupid
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You're spot on there. You'd think someone who killed while driving under the influence would want to keep out of controversy, yet here we are. Shows what type of idiot we're dealing with.
 
Superden said:
If the majority of the victims of racism feel that taking the knee is a part, even if its a very small part, of a push against racism, Then what the problem? Effin white saviour snowflake morons,
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As an outsider but someone who usually aligns with views on the left and would like to see our own right wing extremists lose their stranglehold on power in my own country, I do find the over sensitivity on these issues in the west surprising. I mean, kneeling (or not) for 5-10 seconds hardly sums up an individual's entire value system. Is Zaha racist for opting out? Is anyone who doesn't feel like doing all the poppy crap you do once a year a villain? I don't think so. If anything, that rubbish term snowflake appears to apply to those in outrage over this. The fellow wants to point, it's his wish and I'm surprised people care so much. As if this bending of the knee is the ultimate act that will forever determine one's views on racism.

Reminds me of how people here who dont stand up for the national anthem at cinema halls get beaten up.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
As an outsider but someone who usually aligns with views on the left and would like to see our own right wing extremists lose their stranglehold on power in my own country, I do find the over sensitivity on these issues in the west surprising. I mean, kneeling (or not) for 5-10 seconds hardly sums up an individual's entire value system. Is Zaha racist for opting out? Is anyone who doesn't feel like doing all the poppy crap you do once a year a villain? I don't think so. If anything, that rubbish term snowflake appears to apply to those in outrage over this. The fellow wants to point, it's his wish and I'm surprised people care so much. As if this bending of the knee is the ultimate act that will forever determine one's views on racism.

Reminds me of how people here who dont stand up for the national anthem at cinema halls get beaten up.
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I agree. Two of the main aspects of this campaign was that it was brought about due to the online abuse footballers were receiving and that it was a non-mandated, completely voluntary gesture. Now those who choose to no longer participate are receiving online abuse for doing so. Too many people on both sides of the political spectrum seem to care less about the actual message of the kneeling and more about using it as a stick to beat their political rivals with.
 
kouroux said:
From a P.R look, it's such a bad and unnecessary move too. Doesn't he have advisers ?
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Yep. Not only is it a PR own goal for him, but also for Chelsea - a club that doesn't exactly have an innocent past when it comes to racism.
 
I think this is good by Alonso. This knee-bowing and all the black lives matter is mostly a PR-trick by the league anyway, so it's nice to see a player take his own stance.
 
AFC NimbleThumb said:
@DOTA puts it best. If you think him not kneeling is simply bad taste then you’re clueless. Valid reason? He’s gone from kneeling to pointing at his sleeve, how long until that loses its power & he has to find some other way to tell his oppressed teammates they’re doing it wrong again.

This./
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Opressed multi millionaire teammates. Too many people really only see the world in black and white, no other nuances allowed.
 
I’ve genuinely never heard a single good argument as to why you’d stop choosing, as an individual, to take the knee.
 
“I just prefer to do it this way,” Alonso said. “It’s my way to do it. I think it’s another way. And maybe I think it’s losing a bit of strength the other way. So I just prefer to do it this way and to show I am fully supportive of fighting against racism.

“I am fully against racism and I’m against every type of discrimination. I just prefer to put my finger to the badge where it says: ‘No to racism’, like they do in some other sports and football in other countries. I prefer to do it this way and, of course, to say very clearly that I am against racism and I respect everybody.”

If they haven't been mentioned, here are his quotes from the Graun.
 
How the hell did Alonso avoid prison for killing a woman while drink-driving? I don't think this is the sort of person we need to be taking moral tips from to be fair.
 
shaky said:
I agree. Two of the main aspects of this campaign was that it was brought about due to the online abuse footballers were receiving and that it was a non-mandated, completely voluntary gesture. Now those who choose to no longer participate are receiving online abuse for doing so. Too many people on both sides of the political spectrum seem to care less about the actual message of the kneeling and more about using it as a stick to beat their political rivals with.
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Separate from the Alonso issue, what you say at the end there is very true. I try to make sure my political conversations don't mention the political parties, or the words "left" and "right" at all, and it's surprising how interesting and enriching the conversations can become, as a result, even with people I might fundamentally disagree with.
 
Vidyoyo said:
“I just prefer to do it this way,” Alonso said. “It’s my way to do it. I think it’s another way. And maybe I think it’s losing a bit of strength the other way. So I just prefer to do it this way and to show I am fully supportive of fighting against racism.

“I am fully against racism and I’m against every type of discrimination. I just prefer to put my finger to the badge where it says: ‘No to racism’, like they do in some other sports and football in other countries. I prefer to do it this way and, of course, to say very clearly that I am against racism and I respect everybody.”

If they haven't been mentioned, here are his quotes from the Graun.
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Ah, do they have "No to racism" written on their shirts? I didn't know that.
 
You may not like it but whether he takes a knee or points to his badge he's still showing he's against racism. He's just not doing it the way you want him to do it.

Funny thing is idiots can't see that he's actually indirectly breathing new life into taking the knee by doing this. Now people are starting to talk about it all again.
 
Good on him. As a black man I think it is a pointless gesture, and another one of those things that are easy to do and doesn't accomplish anything. Having to take the knee to remind another human being that I am a human being and not a monkey. Feck that shyte.
 
Rajiztar said:
After england game against Austria there were racism incidents increased multiple times. Yeah it's all started with symbolisms but it in fact made things worse for minorities in that country.After england team came out from that country racism crimes increased multiple times. All victims were traumatized. I am not against anti racism symbolism.

All I want to say, do things meaningful and helpful way for real victims and make superstars like Christiano Salah kdb kante to help educate young kids. That's really helpful to society in my opinion.

Kids look up those super stars and they can instill this anti racism feel in their mind.
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No they can't. You can love Michael Jordan and still hate black men because of the stereotypes around them. The old "Leroy is different, he's alright its just the others". I have never heard of someone changing their societal/political views because of their favorite sports star. If their home life and actual people around them provide a negative influence then these sports stars will have zero influence. There are Chelsea fans today who love Drogba and Essian but say racist stuff about rival black players
 
0le said:
Not sure how I feel about it all.

Whilst taking the knee was a good gesture at first, I am no longer sure whether it is still having the same sort of impact. There have previously been armbands, posters and initiatives such as "kick it out". But in my opinion none of them have really been successful because the relevant authorities in charge continue to issue weak fines or punishments. For example, Hungary were today(?) just punished with a behind closed doors game and a ~£150k fine [1] which in my opinion is a weak punishment.

I have wondered whether both teams walking off the pitch in unison against racism would have the desired affect. This would disrupt the TV viewing figures and the loss in revenue may lead to more urgent action taken by the relevant authorities.
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They probably have been. I would argue that there is less racism today in sports (and in general) than 10 years ago.

Of course, no gesture is gonna remove the racism. What they can do, is bring awareness to a real problem, and with time, hopefully there will be less and less racism. So all of these, 'kick the racism out' or taking the knee are just tiny incremental steps that might make a tiny difference. However, over decades, these tiny differences are gonna get accumulated and eventually (hopefully) make a large difference that will make things better.

So, I do not see any harm in continuing this indefinitely. In the very worst case, it won't do anything. At best case (and I am quite confident), it will make a bit of difference which is part of the solution.
 
His choice ultimately but I wonder how the black players feel about it? He's not the barometer of how effective it is as it doesn't impact on him anyway. What did he think was gonna happen, taking the knee for a season was gonna eradicate it from football immediately?
 
shaky said:
Too many people on both sides of the political spectrum seem to care less about the actual message of the kneeling and more about using it as a stick to beat their political rivals with.
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Nailed it.
 
RedDevil@84 said:
Not sure why players make a big deal about it. It is not gonna kill you to take the knee. Regardless of whether you believe it serves the purpose or not.
Players already do lot of things that their clubs ask, even though they may not find it purposeful.

And it is weird that he would point to the badge. It doesn't serve any purpose too.
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This is a good point. My guess is there is another reason why he has stopped (probably that he has come to believe that it is a Marxist propaganda plot or some such) and he doesn’t want to just come out and say that.

But you’re absolutely right, it’s not some huge burden that players are being asked to undertake.
 
WeePat said:
Because I suppose he thought he needed to create some good PR for himself by giving an interview about it.

He also said in the interview that he thought Spurs fans were booing him because he always plays well against them and not you know, the thing people tweet at him all day and night.
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True but I'm just surprised no one's really picked up on him.

He's been doing it since Anfield (pissiblt before but that's the first time I noticed) and you would have thought someone would have made a thing out of it.
 
Dancfc said:
True but I'm just surprised no one's really picked up on him.

He's been doing it since Anfield (possibly before but that's the first time I noticed) and you would have thought someone would have made a thing out of it.
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Dancfc said:
True but I'm just surprised no one's really picked up on him.

He's been doing it since Anfield (pissiblt before but that's the first time I noticed) and you would have thought someone would have made a thing out of it.
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People were talking about it on social media since he first started doing it. He gave an interview about it this week, so we now have his quotes on record and that is what is in the headlines now.
 
Tuchel

"Marcos took his decision. He is a grown up, a responsible person and it is his decision. We accept it.

"Once you do it so often, because there are so many games, that it becomes normal and then maybe it lowers the effect of it. If this is his point, I can see his point."



Another racist. typical Chelsea
 
amolbhatia50k said:
As an outsider but someone who usually aligns with views on the left and would like to see our own right wing extremists lose their stranglehold on power in my own country, I do find the over sensitivity on these issues in the west surprising. I mean, kneeling (or not) for 5-10 seconds hardly sums up an individual's entire value system. Is Zaha racist for opting out? Is anyone who doesn't feel like doing all the poppy crap you do once a year a villain? I don't think so. If anything, that rubbish term snowflake appears to apply to those in outrage over this. The fellow wants to point, it's his wish and I'm surprised people care so much. As if this bending of the knee is the ultimate act that will forever determine one's views on racism.

Reminds me of how people here who dont stand up for the national anthem at cinema halls get beaten up.
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Symbolism imo is biggest bullshit.
Never got the emotions behind them, whether it is Tricolor or Jana Mana Gana or anything.
 
Stacks said:
Tuchel

"Marcos took his decision. He is a grown up, a responsible person and it is his decision. We accept it.

"Once you do it so often, because there are so many games, that it becomes normal and then maybe it lowers the effect of it. If this is his point, I can see his point."



Another racist. typical Chelsea
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I don’t agree with this lazy casting of him as some sort of belligerent racist based upon choosing not to partake but perhaps showing support to team mates and colleagues, even forgotten the black population generally, is enough of an effect? Solidarity, particularly when shown to those who may feel they don’t always have the benefit of it, doesn’t seem to me like it could really be any sort of negative.
 
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