Cider in disguise?
Marco Reus
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Jamie (@Vault Dweller) are here to celebrate rare back-to-back victories for Manchester United! They analyse the late win in the Europa League vs. Rangers and then try and find things to analyse in a pretty dour game vs. Fulham. They also chat about the latest Marcus Rashford news, and look at the latest transfer news.
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Cider in disguise?
Haha don't know what that means so erm no??
I don't see there being much chance of this happening. But if it did, a fairly cynical bonus would be that once again it would mean Klopp's best players had been sold off. And when he finally gets sick of that happening, we'd have the added edge over other suitors of offering him a reunion with one of his most successful players. We'd be buying Reus and investing in Klopp at the same time.
Of course, he might be so pissed off at us stealing his player that he'd never get over it, and would never be willing to manage us after that. But I like the imagine the bright side of these situations!
Of course, he might be so pissed off at us stealing his player that he'd never get over it, and would never be willing to manage us after that. But I like the imagine the bright side of these situations!
The problem I see with Dortmund and their players is frustration.
In the past few seasons Kagawa, Sahin, Gotze and Lewandowski have all left (may be others also), and they are just falling further and further away from Bayern.
As a footballer, you must think about leaving. Finishing second in most leagues is great, but being so far behind, and seeing them getting better (Lewandowski so far), must doubt you'd win much
In the past few seasons Kagawa, Sahin, Gotze and Lewandowski have all left (may be others also), and they are just falling further and further away from Bayern.
As a footballer, you must think about leaving. Finishing second in most leagues is great, but being so far behind, and seeing them getting better (Lewandowski so far), must doubt you'd win much
http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2892/transfer-zone/2014/04/29/4783130/reus-silent-on-new-contract
Goal but quoting Bild.
Basically Reus not discussing whether he has been offered a new contract at Dortmund.
Goal but quoting Bild.
Basically Reus not discussing whether he has been offered a new contract at Dortmund.
Yeah that guy is an absolute tool. Every day its
'EXCLUSIVE. united bid 30m for reus/kroos/some other feckwit. This is CONFIRMED by my source'.
Oh, wow, j thought it was bullshit before you said it was CONFIRMED
We should have a thread dedicated to that guy.
Its an absolute car wreck of an account but bloody funny to laugh at.
I dont really pay much attention to it. Sometimes there's the odd interesting comment.
I must have missed that match
But to be honest only Lewa out of the four mentioned left because they were 'frustrated'. Kagawa moved because he boyhood club came calling. Sahin, well if Madrid come calling then not many players reject them. Götze left for more money and wanting to win everything NOW. Lewa is just sort of a dick.
That is all true, but as more and more leave, it's going to make others want to leave.
For the likes of Hummels and Reus, whats the point in staying at a club that are just falling further behind each year
Not every one is going to leave for the money. For Hummels and Reus Dortmund is the club that brought them in and gave them a chance to play. Like Totti and Del Piero (until last year). They are players who stay with the club no matter until the club themselves force them out. So who knows, maybe Hummels and Reus could be like Totti and Del Piero.
I really wouldn't rule out either going tbh. They could more than quadruple their wages at almost any other club of the same level and they've already seen Götze, Lewandowski, Kagawa (and Sahin) make the same choice themselves.
That is quadruple compared to his current wage though right? Not quadruple compared to the recent contract Dortmund have reportedly just offered him. Even if the reported figure isn't accurate, it's pretty certain they will be prepared to offer him substantially more to keep him. If they don't it sends out a clear sign that they can't and/or aren't prepared to financially compete with the best teams in Europe.
What are you talking about? Our team has gotten stronger every season under Klopp, despite losing a key player every year and it is extremely likely that we will come out stronger of this Summer aswell. We managed to play Real Madrid out of the park without six starters. Six. The end result of this season (QF CL, 2nd Buli, Finalist Cup) would have never happened with any of our former squads. The squad of last season would have struggled immensively with the amount of our injuries. The title winning squads of 2010/2011 and 2011/2012? Absolutely no chance.
Quadrupling the wages is also of course a huge overestimation. The aspired current top level seems to be 7-8 Mil. € per year. Neither Reus or Hummels are going to earn 20+ Mil. €. The difference is more about three or four Million in most cases. It will come down to how much they value that difference in money and the prestige of the club. One thing is pretty certain, though. They will nowhere else be as profilic as at Dortmund. They are both the faces of the current Borussia Dortmund for more than just reasons on the pitch and enjoy commercial success because of that. They are the stars and lead players here and appreaciated as that by the fans and the public.
Look at Götze for example. He followed the big money as soon as possible and is now struggling as one among many at Bayern Munich. There is of course also the trend, that no top class Dortmund player recaptured their top form outside the Westfalenstadium and Klopp´s system. Not Sahin, not Barrios, not Kagawa and not even the most gifted one Götze.
@Sphaero
I haven't followed Dortmund much this season, but here are two things.
1. Didn't go as far in the CL
2. 20 points behind Bayern (Could have been more, but been resting players over the last few matches if I'm not mistake)
I am not saying you are a bad team, far from it, but you are so far off Bayern in terms of quality, you won't win the league for the next few seasons at least
I haven't followed Dortmund much this season, but here are two things.
1. Didn't go as far in the CL
2. 20 points behind Bayern (Could have been more, but been resting players over the last few matches if I'm not mistake)
I am not saying you are a bad team, far from it, but you are so far off Bayern in terms of quality, you won't win the league for the next few seasons at least
I think it depends on if Dortmund can continue to grow financially and build a bigger squad depth. Of course the injury crisis they had this year didn't do them any favor either.
They still made it to the quarter finals of the CL though and were as close to throwing Madrid out of the competition like no other team this season.
So all in all I don't think they really had a bad season for how many injuries they had to deal with.
They still made it to the quarter finals of the CL though and were as close to throwing Madrid out of the competition like no other team this season.
So all in all I don't think they really had a bad season for how many injuries they had to deal with.
If we would have even a fraction of the luck we had against Malaga in this years QF, we would have knocked Madrid out. Up until that stage this seasons performance was actually more impressive because we did it under far worse circumstances. We lost the league in November+December, when we played several games without our complete first choice defensive formation (whole backline and CM), losing out most effective tool pressing. Such a concentrated injury crisis is not that likely to repeat every season. Up until we lost Hummels, Subotic and Schmelzer in a matter of a week, we were neck to neck with Bayern in the Bundesliga. The biggest difference to Bayern is depth, but this is exactly where we have and still will improve in the next years. In a direct confrontation we are still one of the biggest threats to them in the world.
I didn't know about the extent of the injuries. As I said, I am not saying you are a bad team, because you have quite a lot of very good players.
The problem is, like last season, you lose one of your best players, to a team who are considerably better than you.
You lose Lewa for free, and are bringing in Ramos, who from all accounts has had a good season, but he is nothing on Lewa, so it just feels like they are pulling away more
Ed Woodward wants to sign a marquee player? This is the guy. He has everything we need. I wouldn't bat an eye at spending 50 or 60M on him.
We will sign a second striker, that is certain, either a highly rated talent (e.g. Drmic) or a more established one (e.g. Immobile). We won´t be able to replace Lewandowski one to one, but we will seriously upgrade our second option. That is also the only part of the team, where we may lose quality. We get another offensive option in the midfield with Ji, who is exactly out the mould of players Klopp wants, similar to the relatively unknown Serbian Milos Jojic, who has himself already introduced very nicely since joining us in the Winter. We are also close in finalizing a deal with Germany´s most promising CB Matthias Ginter, who can also play DM giving us enourmous depth in both positions. Then there are talents like Durm, Hofmann and Ducksch, who are far from reaching their limit.
There is fo course also the argument that Lewandowski won´t strengthen Bayern as much as it would Dortmund. As good as Lewandowski is, his biggest strengths, especially his hold up play with the back to the goal, is perfectly highlighted in Dortmund´s play, which is a pattern that goes through every player under Klopp. I could argue that no one can use certain aspects of players as well as our coach. This is also the reason, why we could compensate losses, which a lot of people thought of as doom for our future. Klopp does not need absolute complete world class players to make his system work smoothly. He needs players who can fullfill certain roles. Our biggest strength is not a single player, it is our coach and our system.
@Sphaero
Out of curiosity, what is your opinion on Reus. Do you think he could leave Dortmund this season, and if so, what sort of fee do you think it would take?
Out of curiosity, what is your opinion on Reus. Do you think he could leave Dortmund this season, and if so, what sort of fee do you think it would take?
No way he will be allowed to leave. Lewnadowski is already going and Dortmund have already said they won't let two key players go per season if they have any choice at all.
It would take a huge bid I guess to make the reconsider that position something of the magnitude Real is willing to pay for top players and I don't think we will do it.
Next season he might be able to leave for 35M € if he doesn't accept Dortmund's improved deal which would remove the buyout clause.
Our currently best attacking player. Ideal player for our style. No chance of leaving this Summer, unless someone makes a crazy offer. If I would have to put up a figure: 65-70 Mil. €? Maybe more if the officials see a realistic chance in getting rid of the buy out clause. I don´t have much expectations for that, though, but then again I did not expect us to sign him at all or for Hummels to sign a five year contract without clause when Bayern and Barca came knocking in 2012.
Interestingly I think Hummels seems like the player most loyal to Dortmund or at least Klopp. While a lot of the other players already had the possibility to leave in the near future in their mind when they signed improved contracts Hummels who was already a target of major clubs did not insist on a buyout clause.
He also was the one player who seemed most shocked and disgruntled when it came out that Götze would leave Dortmund. I think he values what he has in Dortmund and Klopp very highly and I can only really see him leave when Klopp decides to move on as well. Well that is unless some team comes in with a ridicoulus offer in terms of wages and transfer fee for Dortmund.
Hummels's latest interview was pretty telling in my opinion. I don't see him leaving in the foreseeable future.
Really? 60 Million? Wowza.
The Kicker interview form monday? Haven't read that so far any idea if it's available online somewhere?
He is without a doubt the star player with the highest likelihood to stay long term or even his whole career at Dortmund. He was always very vocal about what he personally views as a successful career. He does not measure himself on the number of trophies, but his personal role in winning them. He knows his standing as one if not the most important player in the team. He is undisputed lead player and also probably knows, that he will wear the badge if he stays long enough. I think the acceptance in both character (he is eloquent, but also very direct) and play style (which is for example clearly restricted in the NT) from the team and Klopp is important for him. The idea of being one vital corner stone in the development of a potential top club is pretty exciting for him aswell.
A move to a bigger club is inevitable for any young talent of the Reus mould.
Young players (forwards especially) know that thier brief careers are even more brief at the top level. If a player like Reus can be seen week in week out on the world stage it adjusts their value tobpotential clubs after their stint at the top. So of we offer quadruple his current wage by sheer common sense he will definitely take notice and Dortmund simply can not match our money.
Let's take it further, Dortmund are an incredible team but they will always be playingbsecond fiddle to Bayern because of cash flow. So how does their business grow to that level, how do they hope to compete. By buying and developing players for squad depth first and then adding the sparkle on top.
If we came in even with 35m Dortmund would listen. Why? Because despite the crazy prices in the prem that is a mountainous amount of cash in the Bundesliga. Gotze went for 35m to a direct rival just before a CL final, I mean if they'd do that release clause or not then any Dortmund player is negotiable apart from the loyalists like Hummels who don't seem to care so much about the cash. Although I'm sure he can be tempted.
When an elite level club comes in for you, you simply can't ignore it. Its the equivalent of signing for Real or Barca you simply take notice.
Young players (forwards especially) know that thier brief careers are even more brief at the top level. If a player like Reus can be seen week in week out on the world stage it adjusts their value tobpotential clubs after their stint at the top. So of we offer quadruple his current wage by sheer common sense he will definitely take notice and Dortmund simply can not match our money.
Let's take it further, Dortmund are an incredible team but they will always be playingbsecond fiddle to Bayern because of cash flow. So how does their business grow to that level, how do they hope to compete. By buying and developing players for squad depth first and then adding the sparkle on top.
If we came in even with 35m Dortmund would listen. Why? Because despite the crazy prices in the prem that is a mountainous amount of cash in the Bundesliga. Gotze went for 35m to a direct rival just before a CL final, I mean if they'd do that release clause or not then any Dortmund player is negotiable apart from the loyalists like Hummels who don't seem to care so much about the cash. Although I'm sure he can be tempted.
When an elite level club comes in for you, you simply can't ignore it. Its the equivalent of signing for Real or Barca you simply take notice.
I'm pretty sure he will be aware of the interest. No doubt about that.
The main question though is why should Dortmund consider selling him? Especially for a price that they are sure to get next season anyways.
I'd rather drop £60m on him than Cavani.
We won't be signing Reus until we're back in the Champions League, so we can forget about him.
That is a bit of flawed analogy IMO. I think that this season with Atletico and Liverpool has taught us that it's possible to win things even without spendings bucket loads in the transfer market. Dortmund's revenues have already risen rapidly and selling their best players is not the way forward for them because it's short-termist and they'll lose marketing value in the long run. They are the 2nd biggest draw in Germany and as the Bundesliga gains more coverage their income will shoot northwards. If they can keep their core of Hummels, Reus, Gundogan, Bender, Subotic I see no reason why they can't go head to head with Bayern. This year was an amomoly for them as if their squad was decimated with injuries - their whole back 4 was missing at times. And Lewandowski leaving is not that big a deal for them. They still have Aubamayang who's a good striker. And who knows maybe they'll even buy the likes of Drmic and Ginter to boost their squad depth. They are not that far away from being an elite team as some might think - they have a massive stadium with the highest attendances in Europe, they make lots of profit, have probably one of the Top 3 coaches around and are signing new sponsorship deals. If they keep a hold of their best players I have no doubt they'll be one of the best teams in Europe for the long term.
The thought of signing him makes me all tingley inside
I agree it's an obscene amount of money but it's probably market value for a player of his quality in the current climate. If Marouanne Fellaini is worth 27.5M........
Yeah, and he went for that because a release clause was triggered. Dortmund had absolutely no say in that matter. None. If you think you can just show up and bid the fee of the release clause of 2015 for Reus, then you should check our transfer management in recent years. We gave up a considerable amount of cash to keep Lewandowski for one additional year, because the officials thought it was worth it (they were right with that). We denied a 50 Mil. € offer by Madrid instantly for Reus last Summer. You will have to offer a lot of money on top of the 35 Mil. € to make them even consider letting him go. Given Reus´ status as player and personality at Dortmund and the fact that they still hope to get rid of the release clause, we are talking a plus of maybe 30 Mil. € here. Wanna have a piece of him? Lay 60 Mil. € on the table and Zorc & Co. may consider entering negotations. We have no reason to sell, which is also why the likelihood of him transfering in this Summer are slim to none.
I haven't seen it online so far, only read some bits and pieces only twitter. I'm off to bed now though as I've got an exam tomorrow morning, but I'll make sure to dig up those comments tomorrow and post them!
And it's something I admire very much, it's lost in football these days. Really hope he stays long-term with you. It doesn't seem like he can be swayed away by money so I'm willing to bet he'd be willing to stay long-term.
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