Fabio Rochemback
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- Aug 22, 2022
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Showed real quality yesterday. The question is, when Eriksen is fit and we have a starting CM (FdJ or someone), is a player of his skillset what's needed for squad depth?
Showed real quality yesterday. The question is, when Eriksen is fit and we have a starting CM (FdJ or someone), is a player of his skillset what's needed for squad depth?
The ones giving Weghorst overly positive reviews probably thought the same too.Hes getting the right level of praise.
We should be signing an upgrade on Eriksen this summer and then he becomes that squad player. Sabitzer was a fantastic signing in January when we needed someone to cover for Eriksen on a short-term basis and had zero money to spend - he makes zero sense in the context of us needed a young prospect with high potential to cover/rotate with Casemiro and an upgrade on Eriksen to dictate and progress play as he’s neither profile. Unless we’re selling Fred and he takes his spot as 5th choice I don’t understand why we’d sign him. As ETH constantly says - good is not good enough.He is getting better with every match. Given that Eriksen usually is spent after 60 minutes and we should look to give Bruno some rest in matches where we are ahead and in control, so if he is okay being a squad option I wouldnt mind keeping him.
We should be signing an upgrade on Eriksen this summer and then he becomes that squad player. Sabitzer was a fantastic signing in January when we needed someone to cover for Eriksen on a short-term basis and had zero money to spend - he makes zero sense in the context of us needed a young prospect with high potential to cover/rotate with Casemiro and an upgrade on Eriksen to dictate and progress play as he’s neither profile. Unless we’re selling Fred and he takes his spot as 5th choice I don’t understand why we’d sign him. As ETH constantly says - good is not good enough.
The ones giving Weghorst overly positive reviews probably thought the same too.
Why does it depend on new owners? We spend shit tons of money every summer. We can sell Mctominay and bring in two midfielders regardless of who the owners are. And if I was selling Fred I wouldn’t be signing a 29 year old who is at best marginally better than him that won’t get into our starting 11. Not entirely sure how that helps bridge the enormous gap between us and City.Your scenario is dependant on us getting new owners. That still hasnt happened. If / when it does I agree with you, but I would probably get rid of Fred before Sabitzer to be honest.
Why does it depend on new owners? We spend shit tons of money every summer. We can sell Mctominay and bring in two midfielders regardless of who the owners are. And if I was selling Fred I wouldn’t be signing a 29 year old who is at best marginally better than him that won’t get into our starting 11. Not entirely sure how that helps bridge the enormous gap between us and City.
Please this nonsense needs to stop we are in no danger of FFP breach , we might not spend big if Glazers stay and decide to tighten the purse strings due to lack of funds but it won't be because of some imaginary FFP troubles we are having .McTominay isnt going to bring in huge money. We are in quite a bit of debt and have to act accordingly to not get in trouble with FFP.
He isnt. Unless we get new owners and the debt is removed we aint bridging that gap anytime soon.
Weghorst had a couple of very good games for us. Not sure which games you refer to but re sabitzer, he's played very well in the last couple of games (his first back to back start no less), and that deserves recognition.The ones giving Weghorst overly positive reviews probably thought the same too.
Uh did you not see his good performance against Brentford? Relentless off the ball, assist for Marcus. He's been a very good loan signing.
It’s not that good. Bruno was incredible yesterday, but he’s usually better at the attacking stuff. Eriksen is very good but his age / lack of legs often shows. Casemerio is our best midfielder and one of the best DMs around however his passing can be inconsistent (but is better than expected).Like I said, I think you'll be hard pressed to find a better trio of Casemiro, Eriksen and Bruno and the backups of Sabitzer, Fred and McTominay are probably as good as you'll find at top clubs too
So what's he role then, second forward a n.10 ?
Is this a role he's familiar with in the past ?
He looked really good yesterday. Feel like his passing or pass choices up top were far better than what we are used to. More creative and accurate. Seems to get a lot of chances and probably needs to start doing better with them but yesterday thought he was brilliant.
Ok fair enough. Let me describe my train of thoughts. I am sure, we can agree that transfer business and strategy have been extremely wank at United for quite some time. This is now resulting in a situation where we don't really have some sort of established team "back bone", no 1st team who is able to compete on the highest level nor a deep squad with a high overall level. This year 1st team and backbone is starting to shape up but both very early days.What a strange post.
We haven’t fielded our first choice midfield for ages (back when we did, there was talk of us challenging for the title, btw). No-one is looking at our back up midfield beating a couple of average teams and concluding that the back up midfield is the best in the world, are they? No.
We have no idea who might be interested in Sabitzer if he was for sale but he certainly looks good enough to get into most (not all) teams; as a squad player he’d be valued everywhere. He’s a Bayern Munich player, on loan to Manchester United; two of the very biggest clubs in the world; you think he’s particularly interested in going somewhere else? We have no idea but most places would be a step down.
You know all that, I’m sure. I don’t see the point of your post.
So mostly tier 2 teams, correct? Don't get me wrong, I am not interested in slagging off Sabitzer, he certainly has a good level but Bayern got him more or less on the cheap when he was way "hotter" than he is today without much competition. At Bayern there is no way he can get anywhere near the starting lineup. IIRC he was even lower down the pecking order at some point because he was never used where he contributes the most - as a roaming, gritty playmaker who is allowed to enter the box. He is a jack of all trades, which certainly has its uses but the level he offers doesn't seem to be substantially higher than what McTom and Fred can offer - even though obviously in different aspects. If he can be bought at 10 million or something, alright, go on. But everything more doesn't seem to be an overly good idea. Because it isn't a step forward but sideways.It would actually make sense if you would try to inform yourself properly before writing such things. There have been quite a few clubs named in 2022-23 as potentially interested in buying Sabi
Milan, AS Roma, Arsenal, Dortmund(ok, 2021) and more clubs from the PL as mentioned recently..
Yeah good points. I think we disagree slightly on how good Sabitzer is. I rate him quite a bit above Fred and McT. They’re all different, but if I can only have one of those three, I don’t hesitate to go for Sab, based on what I’ve seen, and I do believe there is more to come from him. I think he is the best option we have to play with Casemiro when Eriksen is tired or injured and he can fill in at 10 or 6.Ok fair enough. Let me describe my train of thoughts. I am sure, we can agree that transfer business and strategy have been extremely wank at United for quite some time. This is now resulting in a situation where we don't really have some sort of established team "back bone", no 1st team who is able to compete on the highest level nor a deep squad with a high overall level. This year 1st team and backbone is starting to shape up but both very early days.
To establish United as a top club again, for me we have to adress 1st team issues first, after that, we can look for Subs. 1st team looks good'ish these days with the obvious exception of a quality striker. Next in line would probably be a RB and a keeper. This would up the level of 1st team. Alternatives are important as well, we are seeing that we have no alternative to Casemiro, this should be a priority. Same goes to a degree for Eriksen and Bruno, though Brunos insane fitness levels might give us the luxury of pushing that to a little lower priority. Eriksen is a different animal, we should try to bring in a player with similar qualities in terms of ball progression. If this player would offer more, even better.
Current alternatives are Fred and McTominay. Fred offers energy and grit, plus he can contribute to attack simply by bringing more chaos into the game (at the cost of that chaos influencing us as well). He is no alternative to Casemiro whatsoever. He also isn't suited for a progressor role like Eriksen. McTominay is built like a tank and adds a little danger to opponents goal. Apart from that he doesn't offer anything to a very high level - he is absolutely unsuited for the casemiro-role as he lacks positional awareness (applies to Fred as well). He is also unsuited for Eriksen role because he doesn't offer the technical excellence to progress the ball consistently (apart from maybe one game per year against Leeds). All in all the available alternatives have their uses but they are in no way alternatives for 1st team personal.
Another general point: I think, clubs do best when they assemble their squad with subs that are challenging 1st teamers for their place in the starting lineup. Obviously this also needs some sort of balance, but best case scenario is that your subs consist of 4 groups: players close to their peak challenging for 1st team spots, players who recently have lost their spot and are challenging to get it back, big talents who get their chances here and there and a few utility players and or players who are long lasting servants of the team (bit like Neville was in the last years at United).
Based on all that, lets look at Sabitzer:
Is he suited for the Casemiro role? No. Never was a DM even if he is maybe a little more capable in defence than Eriksen and Bruno.
Is he suited for the Eriksen role? No indication as of yet, he is running around a lot but as long as there is noone to pick up his runs (which would be the responsibility of the player in the Eriksen role) theres no real point.
Is he suited for the Bruno role? Maybe.
Is he a player in his peak? Probably yes.
Is he challenging for a spot in the starting lineup? Don't think so as he isn't better than the available personal.
Is he an upcoming talent? Not anymore.
Is he a longlasting servant? Certainly not.
Can he be a utility player? Yes this seems something he might be suited for BUT as we have established, we more or less have that already in Fred or McTominay. McTominay is playing for free lunch at Carrington and Fred has the benefit of being an established team member who is well liked around the squad. Selling them might be an option, but if that happens, I'd hope we would be spending that cash a little more ambitiously than on Sabitzer.
So what really is the point of adding somebody to the squad who isn't going increase the chance of making us a top team in the future? If Sabitzer had proven (and he might do just that in the upcoming games this season which would change my evaluation) to be better than Fred or McTominay then we would have a different situation but he didn't. He is different than them, yes. But he doesn't seem to be more suited to ETH football than Fred and McTominay are. As of right now, the only thing that goes in favor for Sabitzer is the supposedly low price. But a smart club shouldn't just bring in players just because their financially "good business". Especially United with their "proud tradition" of bloated squats.
My feeling is, that some fans evaluate the level of a player only by comparing them to their team mates. Which is understandable, those are the players fans know the best. But being better technically than McTominay doesn't make Sabitzer automatically good. It makes him better than McTominay or Fred.
If we have to make do in terms of money for midfield acquisitions - add Amad, Meijbri or Mainoo to the roaster. If they fail, they fail. At least we will know then... But throwing out 20mio for a player just because its cheap doesn't make sense to me. I know the team has several positions to work on. Thats why I was so against the financial outlay last summer. But don't double down on your mistakes.
So mostly tier 2 teams, correct? Don't get me wrong, I am not interested in slagging off Sabitzer, he certainly has a good level but Bayern got him more or less on the cheap when he was way "hotter" than he is today without much competition. At Bayern there is no way he can get anywhere near the starting lineup. IIRC he was even lower down the pecking order at some point because he was never used where he contributes the most - as a roaming, gritty playmaker who is allowed to enter the box. He is a jack of all trades, which certainly has its uses but the level he offers doesn't seem to be substantially higher than what McTom and Fred can offer - even though obviously in different aspects. If he can be bought at 10 million or something, alright, go on. But everything more doesn't seem to be an overly good idea. Because it isn't a step forward but sideways.
I would say Madrid and City have a better trio. We've already gone toe to toe with Barca and there is nothing else in the Premier league that I would swap for our 3.It’s not that good. Bruno was incredible yesterday, but he’s usually better at the attacking stuff. Eriksen is very good but his age / lack of legs often shows. Casemerio is our best midfielder and one of the best DMs around however his passing can be inconsistent (but is better than expected).
We really need a proper 8 / playmaker who can run the game because Eriksen, who is a bit old / at times frail and naturally an AM, aside, we have nobody who excels at that which is one reason why we can’t go toe to toe with the best teams. Obviously issues in other positions also contribute but having many midfielders better further up the pitch and one DM isn’t what a supposedly top midfield should have. I’d like to see us focusing on buildup play and not keep stacking up box to box / attack minded midfielders
We don’t have a top midfield until our midfield performs like one. Hopefully EtH knows better and upgraded as we have to.I would say Madrid and City have a better trio. We've already gone toe to toe with Barca and there is nothing else in the Premier league that I would swap for our 3.
I mean Xhaka is having a fantastic season but I wouldn't swap him for Eriksen. Casemiro is definitely better than Partey and I put Bruno ahead of Odegaard.
We have a top midfield
Our first choice midfield three was performing like a top midfield until we were no longer able to field it due to injury and suspension. That’s what we’re talking about here. There is an issue with Eriksen fading in the second half and that needs to be addressed but we don’t necessarily need to sign someone (a top no8 would be welcome but it will cost a lot to get someone who is actually better than Eriksen, if we can even identify someone and do a deal).We don’t have a top midfield until our midfield performs like one. Hopefully EtH knows better and upgraded as we have to.
Called him an average player after the second goal and had mouthbreathers queuing up to quote me in the match thread afterwards.
Suspiciously quiet then when he turned in his usual wet fart anonymity for the remaining 60 minutes of the game.
It'll be a relief when schools are back open and the FIFA playing kids have homework to do rather than post their shitty memes and one liners here.
Good depth for 20 million... Give me fecking strength.
You did stick to your word and fair play. But I don't think anyone is saying he's a permanent starter.
Rather than going on the offensive, how about saying:
A) would you be happy to stick with McT and Fred as the rotation options. If not then
B) any players of an equivalent value to Sabitzer you feel will work to bring in in the summer?
Called him an average player after the second goal and had mouthbreathers queuing up to quote me in the match thread afterwards.
Suspiciously quiet then when he turned in his usual wet fart anonymity for the remaining 60 minutes of the game.
It'll be a relief when schools are back open and the FIFA playing kids have homework to do rather than post their shitty memes and one liners here.
Good depth for 20 million... Give me fecking strength.
A) Very little between Fred and Sabitzer. Fred is probably marginally better by a miniscule degree. Would not be happy with either of them being the first port of call in the event of an injury/suspension to a starter. Would be more content if they were backup to our backup - lower level opposition, resting players when games are put to bed. McTominay is a couple of levels below and not worth a consider for me.
B) I only watch United and some other PL/CL matches. I don't know who else is out there and what their values are. I simply think 20 million for Sabitzer does not improve us or our depth in any reasonable way. It would be a depressing thought to think you can't get any better than him if you're spending 20 million. I don't expect another Casemiro level player as our primary backup, but it needs to be someone several levels better than Sabitzer or Fred.
I think the idea that he was a good and promising player at Leipzig and reasonably well known is making people think that 20 million is sensible business. I prefer to look at what he's done since making the step up to Bayern. Which is very little.
Two excellently taken goals for Sabitzer tonight. However, in theory, we have other midfielders who can score those goals. The rest of the package was lacking. I like him but if you are trying to build a functioning midfield: Is he first choice for #6, #8 or #10? If not why buy him?
Your package is lacking!!! Be nice to Sabi.Two excellently taken goals for Sabitzer tonight. However, in theory, we have other midfielders who can score those goals. The rest of the package was lacking. I like him but if you are trying to build a functioning midfield: Is he first choice for #6, #8 or #10? If not why buy him?