Antony's goal top class movement and buildup!
Manchester United vs Lens (Sat 5th August, 12:45 UK time)
- Thread starter Samid
- Start date
Antony's goal top class movement and buildup!
E.T.H. flamethrower at half time, some scorched red devils out there in the 2nd half. We did the same last season and some games were lost by half time, midfield needs sorting p.d.q.
Sorry but I didn't like the way we played - on counter attacks and transitions
You're excused.
You aren't completely off with this. ETH wants to play higher up and all and hopefully he will because teams won't attack and press and offer their throat to play through them when we are the best team in transition. They will sit deeper and deny space. Question will be, what are we going to do then. Right now, we are around a point Ole reached as well (with some differences of course) - he wasn't able to make the next step though, hopefully ETH is.
I think you read wrong things into peoples statements. The main problem surely was the football, mind the not existing evolution of it. Favorism and spine where things people came up with to slag him off once the whole debate became tense and personal.
It sure as hell looks pretty similar to an Ole team right now. What you say apart from it, I'd share the observation. But shifting the ball quickly was exactly what we did under Ole. And back then it was mostly Bruno who was trigger happy. Today it has been Bruno as well and getting praise from being sharp. Releasing the ball early is his thing, it is a good thing, lets see where we can go from there, Control is an unlikely destination though. Bruno and Rashford are built for transitions, they are common denominators in this team. If ETH makes the decision to built around those, that is great - I just hope he has a plan how to score when teams will shut down shops, because that is the most obvious solution to get anything from "the best team in transition" (whoever we are that or not).
Or we overwork him and he loses concentration due to tiredness towards the end of games?
He needs support and cover.
I only look for performance not goals in pre-seasons. The movements and pressings were good. Workman mason allows Bruno to be more attacking minded.
We still need to work on the right side of the pitch.
Looks like we’re setting ourselves up to capitalise on quick attacking transitions and counter-pressing. Total football esque.
hoping it pays dividends this season
hoping it pays dividends this season
Agreed but his touch was horrible.
Good game. It showed a few things.
1. In terms of look, I think it's going to look like a slightly more fluid Liverpool. Our pressing is pretty strong now with Mount in the team. High press, heavy on the turnover to a counter attack. We'll play high up the pitch, but we wont break teams down with incisiveness, but moreso creative through ball from midfield ( exploiting the pace up top) and circling the ball round for direct attacks from the flanks. We'll have patches of good combinations, ut I think we'll actually intend to play more direct than last season, we now have the work rate in midfield for good coverage.
2. We are going to be able to keep possession far better just by simply playing along the backline due to Onana's presence. We will have lots of possession across the backline. Shaw has completely learnt how to invert, so it will allow our midfielders to stay forward. This means there will be large patches of play where we are simply keeping the ball across the backline. This will be good for us in killing the sting of away games at times. It won't lead to too much progressive play, but will strengthen our already strong defence since we'll have the ball more, even against teams who press.
3. It's great that Hojlund is in because we clearly need a focal point in attack.
4. Garnacho looked great and seems much stronger than last season
5. It's clear Ten Haag is going to use Sancho is a key rotation piece. Today he played in midfield, he's been a false 9 for most of preseason and Ten Haag hasn't even attempted to play him out wide. There's a clear position shift. This means Amad and Antony are exclusively playing for that right hand side; the same goes for Garnacho and Rashford on the left. It provides us another option in key positions. He didn't play too well in there today, which was a little concerning, but hopefully in league cup, fa cup and easier champions league games, this is a good option.
1. In terms of look, I think it's going to look like a slightly more fluid Liverpool. Our pressing is pretty strong now with Mount in the team. High press, heavy on the turnover to a counter attack. We'll play high up the pitch, but we wont break teams down with incisiveness, but moreso creative through ball from midfield ( exploiting the pace up top) and circling the ball round for direct attacks from the flanks. We'll have patches of good combinations, ut I think we'll actually intend to play more direct than last season, we now have the work rate in midfield for good coverage.
2. We are going to be able to keep possession far better just by simply playing along the backline due to Onana's presence. We will have lots of possession across the backline. Shaw has completely learnt how to invert, so it will allow our midfielders to stay forward. This means there will be large patches of play where we are simply keeping the ball across the backline. This will be good for us in killing the sting of away games at times. It won't lead to too much progressive play, but will strengthen our already strong defence since we'll have the ball more, even against teams who press.
3. It's great that Hojlund is in because we clearly need a focal point in attack.
4. Garnacho looked great and seems much stronger than last season
5. It's clear Ten Haag is going to use Sancho is a key rotation piece. Today he played in midfield, he's been a false 9 for most of preseason and Ten Haag hasn't even attempted to play him out wide. There's a clear position shift. This means Amad and Antony are exclusively playing for that right hand side; the same goes for Garnacho and Rashford on the left. It provides us another option in key positions. He didn't play too well in there today, which was a little concerning, but hopefully in league cup, fa cup and easier champions league games, this is a good option.
I'm not sure what you mean by 'came up with'. He had clear favoritism for some players and would select them after weeks of their underperforming. Stories from reliable journos came out left and right confirming this and how it was one of the biggest reasons for dressing room discontent. This obviously leads to a roll-on effect on the football, which I agree fundamentally was underwhelming and needed a change.
Comparing ETH's football to Ole's is pure nonsense though. Most high pressing systems have many of their goals scored through counterattacks. That doesn't make it the same as Ole's system, which was based on sitting deep with a low line - the complete opposite to what we're doing now.
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Sloppy first half and an excellent second half. Many got a full 90mins and no injuries that we know off so far. Can't ask for more from a pre season game.
Garnacho earned a nickname from the Gaffer! He's Garna now, you love to see it 
Can players like sancho still be involved tomorrow with him only getting a bit of time today? Eriksen, Maguire, lindelof etc will be involved tomorrow.
I'm kinda sure he will be.
Likely starting team tomorrow?
Tom Heaton
Wan Bissaka lindelof Maguire Williams
Eriksen De Beek Mejbri
Pellistri Sancho
Martial
Tom Heaton
Wan Bissaka lindelof Maguire Williams
Eriksen De Beek Mejbri
Pellistri Sancho
Martial
Garnacho earned a nickname from the Gaffer! He's Garna now, you love to see it
I love both of them, but Garna sounds terrible
What's next, calling AWB 'Bissa' ?I remember differently last season, was great 1st half, poor 2nd half?
Doubt if martial wil start. Samcho will start that's why he had only 20mins today.
G-nashersI love both of them, but Garna sounds terrible
You are welcome to watch our season reviews of 2014/15 and 2015/16
Opposite style which you may like.The other way wasn't working though was it?
I’ll be shocked if Martial plays. Brother has bene injured all preseason. Don’t think he’s recovered. Much to my chagrin.
Why do the groundskeeper cut the grass after a match?
Calling it Ole ball isn't correct. Ole Ball was us choosing to play a mid block to protect our backline, then spring counter attacks on the break, with Rashford being the main and sometimes only outlet.
There are about 3 major differences:
1. We are pressing high and effectively. We made it impossible for Lens to play out and they struggled to truly get into our midfield.
2. We are better at keeping the ball across our backline
3. Where Ole attempted to consistently try and play through the middle, in possession our aim is to try and get the ball out wide.
The effect of these differences are clear. Us consistently winning the ball high provides us with the ability to play in the opposition's half most of the time, whilst also keeping them away from ours ( apart from the last 20 minutes of the game). It's also far more difficult for the opposition to play through us due to this, because whereas last season, a strong press could be beaten due to players like Martial, Eriksen and Sancho not having the energy or agility to press consistently, in addition to De Gea forcing our defence to slightly deeper due to his inability to sweep and unwillingness to play on the ball, now we can sustain that press and force the opposition to lose possession early.
Under Ole we also had a penchant for overplaying at times due to us trying to be overly precise since we were constantly trying to play through the middle. Quickly moving the ball and playing through the flanks stretches teams and gives our wide men opportunities to attack. Right now, a lack of focal point has meant that there hasn't really been an option in the box to present multiple attacking options using this method, leading to our wide mean using more shooting opportunities, which they haven't been great at.
It's more similar to Liverpool, particularly their 2020 version that the expected Guardiola model.
My wife and I went to the Stade de France to see France v England rugby about 20 years ago and the CRS guy checking us in took my wifes wine bottle off her, removed the top and threw it into a skip. He then gave her the bottle back with a smile and said 'Enjoyez madame'. Trying to explain to her why they had taken a bottle top away from her to stop her throwing it at fans, but left her with a full glass bottle was beyond even my marvellous powers of description. She still brings it up today when she is being searched at Trent Bridge [cricket] in case she has a miniature bottle secreted away somewhere on her.
Thing about Martial even if he got himself fit he would likely get himself injured again on the flight over to Dublin.
Reading some of the critical comments in this thread makes you think we didn't just easily beat a team that lost the French title by only 1 pt to PSG.
Maybe but I think that's letting him off the hook a bit too easily.
That depends on Donny & Fred
Besides a few sloppy moments including the goal, I actually thought we played alright in the first half. First ten to fifteen minutes of second half, we then blizted them with slightly more intensity and put the game to bed.
Garnacho earned a nickname from the Gaffer! He's Garna now, you love to see it
Should have had an Oleised nickname like Garny
Off the hook?
He systematically worsens as a game goes by, but you believe it's because he gets lackadaisical rather than tired?
This is a run-on from last season where the same thing was happening.
This double-8 system requires those 8's to alleviate the work of the #6 considerably and alter the job to sweeper-upper, if that's not happening, then the #6 is going to be doing his work plus that of whoever sides' been breached.
He shouldn't be doing more work this season than last, and if that happens, the likelihood of him being sloppy in the last portion of games will diminish, logically.
Woke up in the second half and won the game but the performance as a whole still looked disjointed and not in control. Don't think Mount and Bruno can play together. Both far too wasteful with the ball and play too far forward. One has to sit for the other. We need someone alongside Casemiro and not in front of Casemiro. So either we quickly sell Fred and Donny and whoever else and go and get Amrabat or reintroduce Fred if he isn't leaving.
Came up with means that they put those things as frontrunners in their criticism because the football, that was an issue, was producing a bit of results nonetheless so was often not easy to criticize. And even if I would agree with you that favoritism is the most plausible explanation for things we have seen, it is nothing more than a (still plausible) assumption. So calling it the "main problem" is just wrong in my eyes.
Chicken and egg issue, I guess. But don't think we are far away from each other on that.
Hmm. Well I guess we have to define, what everybody understands by counter attacks. A "high pressing team" creates high turnovers. Wouldn't call that counter attacks. And while our pressing looks certainly more lively this year, I still don't see us engaged in dominating other teams as a high block. We have Bruno and now Mount who "press" in the meaning of charging people all the time. For me, a press is something coordinated and orchestrated by the whole team. This is what we were lacking since 5 years (or longer) and where we went so off the boil having past it and old fashioned managers. It is getting better, not going to deny that, but the 2nd part of 2nd half today we played mostly like Ole would have played. And why wouldn't we - we were 2 goals up. Scored by two counter attacks and a bit of a lucky bounce after a set piece. No need to get defensive here, not meant to be criticism, but I think, the visible result is still pretty close to what we would have seen under Ole. (In pre-season Oles teams played well too by the way. Even playing out from the back).
Before we get further into it: I wouldn't call it Ole ball. It a) isn't a technical term where everybody understands the exact same thing and b) I only noted a certain resemblence of the football we've seen under Ole. It was also focussed on transitions and our goals often looked similar to todays goals.
about 1. - would probably be a bit less absolute but I agree, there is a clear improvement visible. It looks more organized than last season, still a long way to go to call it a strength of the team. But I absolutely can see that this is a personal subjective stand.
about 2. True. Which is great to see. Lets see how this will stand when the league is going but that certainly is the aspect of our game, that ETH focussed on last year, with clear and visible improvements.
about 3. Not sure if I would subscribe to this. Not sure if Ole gave the players any objectives other than "release it quickly". Felt also like he gave his attackers freedom to position themselves where they felt they should be. Which then led to us bunching up in the middle. So all in all, I agree with the team making better use of the space now, but I don't know if this even was a topic under Ole.
I see where you're coming from. But it sounds pretty definitive considering it is based on a few games in pre-season. But I agree, in theory we should be better with that. Lets hope we can bring it into the season. For me, I'd probably try to make us a little more compact. Still feel that defense and offense are a little to far away from each other, but considering new players and especially a completely different kind of keeper will take some time.
see above
Hmm. Not completely convinced of that but lets say it like this - if we can manage to play like we did in the first part of the 2nd half for most games during the season, than I am the first one to praise ETHs changes. But as you said, even the 2nd part of 2nd half looked different already (for good reasons, not meant as a dig) so it is tricky to extrapolate things into the future.
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And then let the next back pass trickle through his legs haha.
Yeah I don't want to be that guy who goes in on Mount like the media and some fans are doing
He wanted us to sign Pickford.
He's a good player. But just not enough room for both he and Bruno in our midfield right now but he'll be a great deputy to Bruno at CAM.
Have to say I honestly enjoyed that. For every match you can see the players adapting to each other. Onana is such a vast improvement to our play that it will be a net positive for us. The goal today was mostly down to a Dalot error, but we scored 3 so no reason to complain.