Manchester United name John Murtough as Football Director and Darren Fletcher as Technical Director

[Wednesday at Stoke]

You can just see the strategy from Newcastle with who they are acquiring and money can't be used as an excuse because they have negotiated decent proposals in the market.

Comes down to efficient planning. The middle east ownership certainly have dodgy runnings with the finance side of things but when it comes to football operations they have been exemplary.

I don't think Murtough has shown competence at any real credible capacity but I'll reserve outright judgement until the end of the season. That's approximately four windows and 24 months to adequately see improvement / the fruit of change.

Rangnick would have been fantastic to have in the hierarchy. Awful manager granted, but much of what he said in his assessment of the squad has come into fruition. He also identified talented players that the club should have been in the running for that is reminiscent of the DOF role that other clubs aside United at present have successfully demonstrated.

The Newcastle DoF had one season to bring them into the top 4. That is impact. Murtough has been here since the times of Moyes and if he was half decent, he'd either have shown his impact through a coherent decision making process or be poached up by a far more sensible club.

 

[Roboc7]

You can just see the strategy from Newcastle with who they are acquiring and money can't be used as an excuse because they have negotiated decent proposals in the market.

Comes down to efficient planning. The middle east ownership certainly have dodgy runnings with the finance side of things but when it comes to football operations they have been exemplary.

I don't think Murtough has shown competence at any real credible capacity but I'll reserve outright judgement until the end of the season. That's approximately four windows and 24 months to adequately see improvement / the fruit of change.

Rangnick would have been fantastic to have in the hierarchy. Awful manager granted, but much of what he said in his assessment of the squad has come into fruition. He also identified talented players that the club should have been in the running for that is reminiscent of the DOF role that other clubs aside United at present have successfully demonstrated.

But the owners don’t want Rangnick or someone similar, they never did. Because someone like that wants power, they want to put football first and will let everyone know if they don’t get it.

Murtough got the job because he is happy to work within the confines of what the owners want and won’t rock the boat. Even if he is competent I doubt he has anything close to the authority or power to show it.

If we appointed Dan Ashworth like Newcastle did he probably have left already because it would be a complete waste of his time.

 

[Lowkey]

get these losers out. worst run club in football

 

[Gordon Godot]

A bid was made for Henderson? Where?

We didn't want to sell McTominay unless the bid was at a high price so not sure how us rejecting the bid is relevant.

Maguire? You can't force a player to move.

Henderson? He was injured and the terms Forest wanted to use were trash.

You can force a player to move. You leave them out of first team squad and they train with U21s. They want to stay in England team, they go.

 

[roseguy64]

You can force a player to move. You leave them out of first team squad and they train with U21s. They want to stay in England team, they go.

Okay

 

[Tarrou]

wait why is everyone upset now?

the Maguire thing?

 

[roseguy64]

The Newcastle DoF had one season to bring them into the top 4. That is impact. Murtough has been here since the times of Moyes and if he was half decent, he'd either have shown his impact through a coherent decision making process or be poached up by a far more sensible club.

Pretty sure that was down to Howe improving the players they already had at the club.

Ashworth joined in February 2022 and of their signings in his first summer only Botman and Pope played most of their games. Their star performers last season were the players at the club before him so bit weird of you take the credit from Eddie Howe's great job to give it to Ashworth.

 

[roseguy64]

There was only a loan bid for Henderson because as you rightly state, he’s still injured

He was on the bench against Wolves so he's not 100% but available now.

 

[golden_blunder]

He was on the bench against Wolves so he's not 100% but available now.

Maybe that’s a nod to forest, hey look he’s well enough to sit on our bench

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

Pretty sure that was down to Howe improving the players they already had at the club.

Ashworth joined in February 2022 and of their signings in his first summer only Botman and Pope played most of their games. Their star performers last season were the players at the club before him so bit weird of you take the credit from Eddie Howe's great job to give it to Ashworth.

He bought Isak, Gordon, Barnes and Tonali, who all look to fit far better than any player we ever bought in Murtough’s tenure bar maybe Bruno. It’s only weird that you wish to question Ashworth’s value considering his track record over the past few years.

 

[Giggsyking]

Rooney was an Everton graduate and went on to be our all time leading scorer

Everton graduate in sports management I meant.

 

[roseguy64]

He bought Isak, Gordon, Barnes and Tonali, who all look to fit far better than any player we ever bought in Murtough’s tenure bar maybe Bruno. It’s only weird that you wish to question Ashworth’s value considering his track record over the past few years.

You're talking about last season. Isak and Gordon played not a large part in their reaching top 4.

I have said zero against Ashworth. Good on him for getting Pope and Botman.

Your post just discredited Howe massively in an attempt to take a shot at Murtough.

 

[Oldyella]

get these losers out. worst run club in football

Replace with who?

 

[Andycoleno9]

Replace with who?

Trained chimp. Result would be the same probably but at least it would be funny.

 

[Idxomer]

Replace with who?

You could replace him with no one and it wouldn't make a difference. Ten Hag has been the actual DOF since signing his contract in April last year.

 

[Oldyella]

Trained chimp. Result would be the same probably but at least it would be funny.

You could replace him with no one and it wouldn't make a difference. Ten Hag has been the actual DOF since signing his contract in April last year.

OK then..

 

[Skills]

I think it's an impossible job at this club. You stand up and say no the manager, all it takes is one media brief to rile up a pretty stupid collective fanbase. Then all it takes is a few weeks for the dimmest group of 20 turn up at your house threatening your wife and kids.

 

[Greck]

I think it's an impossible job at this club. You stand up and say no the manager, all it takes is one media brief to rile up a pretty stupid collective fanbase. Then all it takes is a few weeks for the dimmest group of 20 turn up at your house threatening your wife and kids.

This will only really happen if the Director says no for the sake of saving money. Ideally they should actually have alternatives that prove to be wise decisions over time.

 

[Greck]

Replace with who?

Common fallacy that's overused on here. It's pretty much saying "If random recreational poster on redcafe can't name a target then how can 7 figure execs with access to millions worth of resources and a massive global scouting database be expected to do better". Sorry but it just had to be said. There's no way it should even be brought up when accessing our hierarchy. There's no way they are stuck with the current lot.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

This will only really happen if the Director says no for the sake of saving money. Ideally they should actually have alternatives that prove to be wise decisions over time.

And that's another reason we repeatedly get taken to the cleaners on transfer fees and wages. We can't walk away because we don't have alternative targets, and the other side knows that.

 

[Skills]

This will only really happen if the Director says no for the sake of saving money. Ideally they should actually have alternatives that prove to be wise decisions over time.

How do you know they're saying no for the sake of saving money? Our limitations to spend are going to be FFP squad cost rules. It's okay not to spend, if the plan is to get the target you want the following summer.

For example the money we've spent on Antony is a burden on our spending for the next 5 years. We should've said no even if we didn't have an alternative.

 

[ShinjiNinja26]

Common fallacy that's overused on here. It's pretty much saying "If random recreational poster on redcafe can't name a target then how can 7 figure execs with access to millions worth of resources and a massive global scouting database be expected to do better". Sorry but it just had to be said. There's no way it should even be brought up when accessing our hierarchy. There's no way they are stuck with the current lot.

This. It’s a lazy retort that serves zero purpose other than to be used as some kind of “gotcha” moment.

 

[Withnail]

This. It’s a lazy retort that serves zero purpose other than to be used as some kind of “gotcha” moment.

Lazy response defending lazy responses. Some of these threads are tiresome when things don't go as planned.

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

You could replace him with no one and it wouldn't make a difference. Ten Hag has been the actual DOF since signing his contract in April last year.

It’s a common theme with this lot. Buy whoever the manager asks for when they first hire them and then drag their feet when the results start regressing, eventually fire them and repeat.

Even last season, they balked and walked away from the Antony deal for Ajax’s quoted price and eventually ended up paying more by dithering until the final days of the window and scared by a bad start in the league.

Always reactive, unprepared and wasteful.

 

[AneRu]

It’s a common theme with this lot. Buy whoever the manager asks for when they first hire them and then drag their feet when the results start regressing, eventually fire them and repeat.

Even last season, they balked and walked away from the Antony deal for Ajax’s quoted price and eventually ended up paying more by dithering until the final days of the window and scared by a bad start in the league.

Always reactive, unprepared and wasteful.

This, all of this. When a manager enters through the door they are prepared to pay through the nose in the name of 'backing the manager'. Come second or third season they start dragging their feet and end up firing them when results go south to insulate themselves from irate fans.

And its always as a result of ignoring one or two glaring holes in the team, the weakness is ruthlessly exploited in this league, team loses confidence and manager is sacked. Bring in the next one, support him heavily first season rinse and repeat. You can tell that the midfield is what's going to cost ETH his job, if I can see it then why can't executives on 7 figure salaries see it and make moves?

You look at Liverpool and their frantic search for a DM, an argument can be made that they did fail by dithering trying to haggle for a fee with Southampton and then going on to try and steal Chealse's main target. That was fun but the point is that they have seen a major weakness in their team and are making moves to close it out. Meanwhile we are waiting for Donny's departure despite having raised circa £30m from sales.

Another big problem for us is upcoming talent identification and the ability to buy them at the right stage where they haven't really made it to cost a bomb but still close enough that they become contributors within 6 months or a year. Its been a long time since we have had a success like Chicharito or what Brighton stumbled upon when they beat us to the Caicedo signing. A team needs at least one left field signing every window where your scouts deliver absolute quality or a work in progress. That we aren't doing it despite having a big scouting department is an indictment of our planning skills.

We are still being led by amateurs, the overrating of McTominay when we had a legitimate bid says it all. West Ham were offering us a chance to get our deadwood to finance the acquisition of a needed player but we chose that moment to overplay our hand and missed the chance.

 

[Cassidy]

Another summer, same rubbish

 

[Cassidy]

Lazy response defending lazy responses. Some of these threads are tiresome when things don't go as planned.

When was the last time a window went as planned?

 

[Withnail]

When was the last time a window went as planned?

I'm talking about literally everything. A couple of bad results and the place goes to hell, for example.

 

[sglowrider]

You can just see the strategy from Newcastle with who they are acquiring and money can't be used as an excuse because they have negotiated decent proposals in the market.

Comes down to efficient planning. The middle east ownership certainly have dodgy runnings with the finance side of things but when it comes to football operations they have been exemplary.

I don't think Murtough has shown competence at any real credible capacity but I'll reserve outright judgement until the end of the season. That's approximately four windows and 24 months to adequately see improvement / the fruit of change.

Rangnick would have been fantastic to have in the hierarchy. Awful manager granted, but much of what he said in his assessment of the squad has come into fruition. He also identified talented players that the club should have been in the running for that is reminiscent of the DOF role that other clubs aside United at present have successfully demonstrated.

But if we had ragnick I doubt if he could work with ETH. They have different footballing philosophies -- and the players Rangnick would focus on.

 

[sglowrider]

But the owners don’t want Rangnick or someone similar, they never did. Because someone like that wants power, they want to put football first and will let everyone know if they don’t get it.

Murtough got the job because he is happy to work within the confines of what the owners want and won’t rock the boat. Even if he is competent I doubt he has anything close to the authority or power to show it.

If we appointed Dan Ashworth like Newcastle did he probably have left already because it would be a complete waste of his time.

Disagree. Firstly the powers has been delegates by Arnold. Secondly if he didn't have the authority why did he land up over paying for Antony?

But ultimately it's a team effort that includes ETH in any of these decisions. No one man can be accountable for a mistake. And no one many should be credited for the success.

 

[sglowrider]

And that's another reason we repeatedly get taken to the cleaners on transfer fees and wages. We can't walk away because we don't have alternative targets, and the other side knows that.

We don't have alternatives? That only happens if the manager insist that the player is his top top priority for that position. And at the moment ETH has a lot of credit in the bank so the DOF and team will naturally conform.

 

[Morpheus 7]

So, are people still defending this amazing window? The inability to move players on has halted our progress. I'm sure the Glazers bots in here will be defending the Murtough summer. Time for some accountability now.

 

[Roboc7]

Disagree. Firstly the powers has been delegates by Arnold. Secondly if he didn't have the authority why did he land up over paying for Antony?

But ultimately it's a team effort that includes ETH in any of these decisions. No one man can be accountable for a mistake. And no one many should be credited for the success.

Murtough wouldn’t have picked Anthony as a signing just like he won’t have decided what to ultimately pay for him. He’s a fixer/middleman who even if he was very good at his job is undermined by the terrible ownership.

Murtough knows his role, he knows the owners and how they operate. He took the job knowing that nothing significant would change and he won’t complain because that’s his job and he’s paid well to do it. If we had of appointed Rangnick, Michael Edwards or Ashworth they wouldn’t work under the same conditions.

 

[UnitedSofa]

So, are people still defending this amazing window? The inability to move players on has halted our progress. I'm sure the Glazers bots in here will be defending the Murtough summer. Time for some accountability now.

You literally cannot force a player out. Jesus christ, we’ve sold a fair amount this season, but because he can’t shift a Maguire who doesn’t want to go, McT who doesn’t meet our valuation. (Who we’d also moan he went too cheaply) and an injured Henderson, that “he’s crap”

 

[Cassidy]

You literally cannot force a player out. Jesus christ, we’ve sold a fair amount this season, but because he can’t shift a Maguire who doesn’t want to go, McT who doesn’t meet our valuation. (Who we’d also moan he went too cheaply) and an injured Henderson, that “he’s crap”

Excuse is made every summer, when you look at it over an extended period, its safe to say we are not good at shifting players. Not blaming Murtough etc, just saying we have to accept this fact
One of the main reasons for this is quite obviously the wages we put players on

 

[Varun1]

You literally cannot force a player out. Jesus christ, we’ve sold a fair amount this season, but because he can’t shift a Maguire who doesn’t want to go, McT who doesn’t meet our valuation. (Who we’d also moan he went too cheaply) and an injured Henderson, that “he’s crap”

Look I haven't been one to bash Murtough and co, but it does feel like 2 steps forward and 2 back. We've just renewed Dalot who has been shite for months (imo he has been shite throughout his time with us), for one reason or another we haven't yet shifted DVB, McTominay, Harry, Martial, Brandon and Henderson - not saying it's all our fault, but other clubs seem to be able to do it better than us. We should have sent a strong message, some of these guys should not have travelled on the US tour - remain at Carrington and train with the reserves because you are not needed. Am glad we're not like some other clubs in that regard, but sometimes you just have to do it, see the pussy footing around Maguire.

At what point do you just release them (am thinking of Tony & Bailly), and move on. It's also about lifting the quality of the squad and reminding everyone of who Manchester United are, and that every player should be giving 100% or else they can feck off.

Look how average Antony has been - when you pay that sort of money, you expect a game changer. Mount feels like a square peg in a round hole!

I would have liked us to experiment more with cheap, promising players. Not on Chelsea's scale, but other than Suzuki, we've not been linked to anyone like that. Even when we were looking at replacing Harry, we turned to Pavard!

 

[croadyman]

So, are people still defending this amazing window? The inability to move players on has halted our progress. I'm sure the Glazers bots in here will be defending the Murtough summer. Time for some accountability now.

Yeah after getting off to a decent start we are on the verge of fecking this window up

 

[Andycoleno9]

Looking at all excuses here, I am pretty sure that many fans here don't know and don't understand what is the role of Director of football.
Director of football is employee who is in charge of everything related to football stuff. DoF is responsible (THE boss) for setting up club philosophy regarding style of football and type of players and he is responsible for short, medium and long term planning.
Also he is responsible for buying players, selling players (!!), extending contracts and hiring people in all football areas (from first team manager, scouts to u18 manager).

During Murtough;
Our recruitment is "what manager wants". Selling players is: selling only ones who say that want to go and waiting bid for them.
Our negotiations with our targets is: "how much?"
On top of that in second window in a row he is slow and unprepared.

Glazers are our biggest problem for sure but Murtough is just behind them.

 

[crossy1686]

wait why is everyone upset now?

the Maguire thing?

We’ve not moved on any of the players that desperately need moving so we can sign new players that are better and we’ve had a poor window outside of signing Onana.

 

[Tarrou]

We’ve not moved on any of the players that desperately need moving so we can sign new players that are better and we’ve had a poor window outside of signing Onana.

thanks, hadn't been keeping up since last week when most were perfectly happy