Yeah McNair has been brilliant. Not sure what who Id have as my cb pairing. All are made of glasses and have mistakes in them. They all seem to be in the same level, just above Mediocre(excluding Blacket and McNair). We need one commanding european expericed CB, who that is I have no idea. The other place can be fought out by the others, see who can step up, stay fit and make the position theirs.
Manchester United - January transfer window 2015 (twitter blacklist applies)
- Thread starter Devil may care
- Start date
Personally i'd say Jones is our best CB if he could just stay fit, if we got someone like Garay in to partner him then we could be onto something, with Rojo, Smalling/Evans, Mcnair, and Blackett as backup.
Reckon one of Smalling, and Evans should leave when we get someone in, i'd say Smalling if we could just get Evans fit long term.
I'm expecting to be alone with this opinion, but I hope we don't sign anyone in Jan. I don't want another period of new players needing to bed in and get used to the pace of the league, language, get used to new team mates etc. Also, our injury situation has to subside at some point, right?
That won't happen, our back four (except Shaw) has been getting regularly injured since they started playing for United.
We should definitely buy 1 or 2 CB's (preferably one of them to be Garay)
Joel Ward is out of contract at the end of next season so shouldn't be too expensive and is actually a really good right back. Would do more than a job here and could rival Rafael for the right back spot long term too. He's only eight months older than him.
It's not just the injuries to our CB's that is the issue IMO, it's the fact that none of them are really good enough, we need at least one CB who can be the main man in a back 4 to get us through to the summer and into the top 4.
I hope we sign a defensive midfielder who does not have an injury record. Especially if we want our fullbacks to attack effectively we need a tank in midfield to be able to cover for them and blow up people who try to counter. This more then anything else would ease our defensive troubles. Look at Southampton, they lost 3/4 of their back line but are still fantastic defensively because Schneiderlin and Wanyama brutalize everything that comes close to their goal. Much as I like Daley Blind, I don't think he is the type of player that can cover for a defense like we have right now. He is a good link up player with good vision but he is not that strong defensively.
Aside from that, a leader in defense would be nice, someone who can organize the defense with authority, who knows what's going on in set pieces and can spot danger in advance. United have no defender right now in my opinion who can really organize the back line- it's a complete free for all back there. Even a knob like Kolo Toure could add something to the back-line in terms of leadership, despite being personally responsible for a bucket of goals each season. We need someone with authority in the back, even more then we need someone with talent.
Aside from that, a leader in defense would be nice, someone who can organize the defense with authority, who knows what's going on in set pieces and can spot danger in advance. United have no defender right now in my opinion who can really organize the back line- it's a complete free for all back there. Even a knob like Kolo Toure could add something to the back-line in terms of leadership, despite being personally responsible for a bucket of goals each season. We need someone with authority in the back, even more then we need someone with talent.
I'd settle for Ron Vlaar.
I think it's impossible to know how good they are, or could become, because they've never had a lengthy run of games. Especially not as a partnership with one another. If their injuries continue, which seems likely, then I agree they will never be good enough. Ability-wise as well as availability-wise.
Ay, Joel Ward is a good player, and exactly the kind of player we should be scouring Europe for in relation to providing Rafael with reliable cover and competition. Cheap, solid, with something to prove. Punts like Buttner haven't really worked in a little while but it would be nice if our scouting system could find a gem here and there, particularly in the full back positions, positions you don't really want to be spending an outrageous amount of money in.
Nail on head.
None of the Evans \ Jones & Smalling trio have proved they are worth the time and patience when have been fit this season anyways.
I don’t think we can afford not to try and recruit in January, it’s important we don’t panic buy but we have so many areas that need improvement that it doesn’t make sense to stick with what we have. We have been saying for years once the injuries subside we will be ok but it’s the same culprits time and time again so I don’t see that changing.
We should be trying to get a CB like Garay and a winger like Depay in as soon as the window is opened, a RB would be great as well but I think that is less of a priority. Garay would give us the physical presence we are crying out for in defence and Depay the pace we need out wide and in the final third and option to play 4-3-3 and move Di Maria to his best position. We would still need more players in the summer but our chances of making the top 4 would improve and if we would have much better chance of getting the right players in the summer if we are back in the Champions League.
We should be trying to get a CB like Garay and a winger like Depay in as soon as the window is opened, a RB would be great as well but I think that is less of a priority. Garay would give us the physical presence we are crying out for in defence and Depay the pace we need out wide and in the final third and option to play 4-3-3 and move Di Maria to his best position. We would still need more players in the summer but our chances of making the top 4 would improve and if we would have much better chance of getting the right players in the summer if we are back in the Champions League.
I'd like us to get Depay, even if it means that we have to loan him back to PSV for the rest of the season. He stated that he wanted to finish his season at PSV and win the title (which seems to be quite an achievable goal). Would not mind Hummels/Garay either, or Vlaar even as a stop-gap.
Garay is a good call, I'd have a player of that ilk over hummels at the moment
DePay we should grab before someone else does
DePay we should grab before someone else does
Garay is a good call, I'd have a player of that ilk over hummels at the moment
DePay we should grab before someone else does
DePay we should grab before someone else does
I'd prefer us to sign a higher calibre RB than Ward tbh. I want someone who is able to come straight in and take Rafael's place from him. I like Rafael but he could do with that sort of top end competition. Ward isn't that level imo.
Godin, Garay, Vidal and Strootman would be great pickups over the next 2 transfer windows, maybe even a RB in Clyne or Coleman. We really need to get a new spine sorted for the team, this current ones all over the shop.
We don't do those kind of deals. Same thing happened with Clyne. We like taking punts on foreign talent.
Personally, I don't think we need another centre back in January. With Smalling, Jones, Evans, Rojo, Blackett and McNair, we have more than enough cover to fill two positions.
I keep changing my mind about this, but I'd like to see Di Maria as a centre midfielder, as most people do. He's obviously better there, which would mean we'd need another winger if we're going to continue playing a 433, as we only have Januzaj who can perform at a decent level there.
If I had my choice, I'd get a pacey right winger - similar to Walcott, who keeps the width, has great off the ball movement, and likes to use his pace to get in behind defences. I would choose this type of winger because I'd want to use Rooney as our left inside forward, who will be given the license to almost play as a second striker to whoever is playing up top. This will give Di Maria the chance to pick up the ball from deep, and drive into the left channel and use his great crossing ability - similar to when we played a 442 diamond.
I guess my team would look something like this:
Make your football formation with this11.com
When we're defending, we can defend in a narrow 442, two banks of four, with Di Maria coming defending the left flank, and Rooney pressing from the front with his the other forward, which would look like this:
Use this11.com for drawing your football tactics
I keep changing my mind about this, but I'd like to see Di Maria as a centre midfielder, as most people do. He's obviously better there, which would mean we'd need another winger if we're going to continue playing a 433, as we only have Januzaj who can perform at a decent level there.
If I had my choice, I'd get a pacey right winger - similar to Walcott, who keeps the width, has great off the ball movement, and likes to use his pace to get in behind defences. I would choose this type of winger because I'd want to use Rooney as our left inside forward, who will be given the license to almost play as a second striker to whoever is playing up top. This will give Di Maria the chance to pick up the ball from deep, and drive into the left channel and use his great crossing ability - similar to when we played a 442 diamond.
I guess my team would look something like this:
Make your football formation with this11.com
When we're defending, we can defend in a narrow 442, two banks of four, with Di Maria coming defending the left flank, and Rooney pressing from the front with his the other forward, which would look like this:
Use this11.com for drawing your football tactics
Out of our 3 senior sick notes Evans is the only one to show a genuine run of performances that made me think he could be a starting CB here, Jones and Smalling have been hit and miss even with a few games back to back at CB, Jones is brainless too often and Smalling seems to have regressed in all aspects since his first season with us when he looked like Rio's replacement.
I'm really surprised at seeing fans suggesting we don't need CB's, it's quality as well as injuries that is the issue. Evans is 27, made of glass and hasn't pushed on since that really good season he had when Vidic's ligaments went, in fact he's gone back. Jones and Rojo are both a couples of cells short in the noodle and Smalling is 25 and has also regressed as well as being made of glass.
I'm all for McNair and Blackett getting chances but realistically we need a boss back there, someone to guide the youngsters and the two hot heads, and we need it in January IMO.
Me too. Experienced, relatively cheap, premier league proven. Would be a very reliable option to just settle us down at the back for the rest of this season.
Don't think signing another injury prone CB is really going to improve our already injury stricken defence.
In that case, neither would Hummels.
Despite having just moved to Zenit in the summer is Garay a realistic option? If so then he's the best option in January IMO.
True, Hummels' injury problems would be a massive worry if we signed him.
Thing is though, Hummels is obviously a much better player than Vlaar so arguably worth the risk. Vlaar is also at an age where he will keep declining physically even from his already less than ideal state, whereas with Hummels you can at least hope his injuries have a chance of clearing up for a spell. Like I said though, he'd be a massive risk.
Neither of them are particularly injury prone though?
Hummels averaged just under 30 league games/season for the last 5 seasons before this one (spread of 22 - 33)
Vlaar's record is just over 30 league games/season in the same period of time (spread of 27 - 32)
Compared to our current crop of CBs that makes them fecking bullet-proof!
Didn't realise that he was particularly injury prone tbh. I know he was out the end of last season and a few weeks ATM, but not sure about his history apart from that.
I must be one of the few that doesn't really want Hummels. I know he would be an upgrade in what we have but I can't help but think he's a bit over rated.
Neither of them are particularly injury prone though?
Hummels averaged just under 30 league games/season for the last 5 seasons before this one (spread of 22 - 33)
Vlaar's record is just over 30 league games/season in the same period of time (spread of 27 - 32)
Compared to our current crop of CBs that makes them fecking bullet-proof!
Don't know the details of Hummels' injuries but as for Vlaar I'd make three points:
1. If you look on Villa forums you'll regularly see them complaining that he is far too injury prone. From the bit I've read of their complaints it seems it's less a case of him being out for long periods and more a case of him regularly picking up niggles that prevent them from having a settled back four. Obviously though the point at which someone can be described as "injury prone" is a matter of opinion.
2. One thing that is for sure though is that Vlaar has had serious injury problems in the past. He has been struggling with a persistent calf issue for the last two years and, during his time in Holland, he had an absolutely horrendous spell of injuries where he did his cruciate twice, did his medial ligament, broke a bone in his foot and got a post-op infection. With that kind of history I'd be very worried he wouldn't hold up so well under advancing age and the injury curse that haunts our squad.
3. Even after all that he probably is a better bet fitness wise than most of our CBs but that really says more about them than it does about Vlaar. If we're going to sign a (relatively) ordinary CB we really should make sure it's at least someone we're very confident we can rely on to stay fit.
There aren't really that many outstanding CBs around generally though, are there? Hard to think of anyone better than Hummels who might be available...
I think you need a lengthy run of games to get into your stride though, which I can't recall Jones or Smalling ever having with a settled partner (or even alone to be honest...). It would be interesting to see some figures on this, but after a quick google I've not found anything.
What I meant is that they may well be good enough, but they've never been able to truly show their ability (and possibly never will) because of the way their careers have been hampered by injuries.
I'd say center back is the position where a lengthy and consistent run of appearances is most important for a player. Not only to hit form themselves, but to strike up an effective partnership. In terms of individual ability, I see no reason why 2 of our '3 senior sick notes' couldn't be as solid as Terry and Cahill say. They both very rarely get injured though which gives them a solid base for Mourinho to build from.
All that really matters is that Jones, Smalling and Evans show no signs of being able to put together this run of appearances. Unless that changes quickly then LVG will inevitably be bringing new faces in soon. I'd prefer a relatively uninspiring name like Vlaar to come in and offer us that solid base, rather than a name like Hummels who seems to be picking up a few injuries himself recently.
You make some valid points, consistency is the key to a CB partnership more than any other combination on the field, I am not sure about them being as good as Terry and Cahill though, Terry was a world class CB and is a leader, none of our 3 have been either of these things at any point. Maybe Smalling or Jones can develop like Cahill with a leader next to them though, as while most people dislike Terry I think it's undeniable that Cahill has progressed with Terry next to him and looks shakier when playing without him for England.
I confess that I've just lost patience with them, it's not like this injury thing is recent, it's perpetual and it's all 3 of them which is practically impossible to sustain if you want to get that top 4 place.
Another aspect to consider is that I don't think LvG wants the type pf CB play Mourinho likes, he wants to play the Dutch way with CB's who can bring the ball out effectively. In fairness
Anyone thinking a striker might be need to on the agenda very soon?
I don't think we're as 'top class' or sorted in that department as it appears at first glance.
Rooney might still be able to do the business there (though arguably we could get better), but it appears van Gaal doesn't want him as a #9.
The other problem is - I don't think he'll be interested in taking van Persie out of the equation as a starter any time soon.
But, assuming van Gaal would be open to removing van Persie from the first eleven, does anyone else starting to think it's almost time for a shake up?
I guess it could all change if Falcao gets back to his best, but even then, there might be better ways to spend the money on a younger striker (24 ish) with the potential to rival the goalscoring records of Aguero and Suarez.
I don't think we're as 'top class' or sorted in that department as it appears at first glance.
Rooney might still be able to do the business there (though arguably we could get better), but it appears van Gaal doesn't want him as a #9.
The other problem is - I don't think he'll be interested in taking van Persie out of the equation as a starter any time soon.
But, assuming van Gaal would be open to removing van Persie from the first eleven, does anyone else starting to think it's almost time for a shake up?
I guess it could all change if Falcao gets back to his best, but even then, there might be better ways to spend the money on a younger striker (24 ish) with the potential to rival the goalscoring records of Aguero and Suarez.
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Yeah, there's definatley a shortage at the moment. Don't get me wrong, I would be happy with Hummels and he's probably the best about at the moment that could be available, I just can't help but feel that he's a tad overrated, and he will cost quite a lot too.
Said the same the other day mate. We've got three strikers pushing, or over, 30. Rvp seems to have had his best days, there are serious questions over Falcao and Rooney is spending most of the game floating around the pitch. None of them offer any sort of pace or stretch the opposition defence, which IMO is what we are missing. If Falcao continues to have problems, I would love to see that money spent on another striker. Someone who is going to add a bit of pace to our attack. The thing is, I'm struggling to come up with any names who fit the bill.
We certainly won't be buying a striker in January, but in the summer we may need a bit of a shake up of the forward line.
I really thought we were done with strikers as the hope was the 3 senior strikers could deliver until Wilson was fully ready. However IF the Falcao loan flops and LvG doesn't want Rooney as a #9 then we'd need to buy someone, the problem is I can't see any particularly great options.
Yes there arent that many great options. Just thought for a minute about some strikers and came up with Cavani, Berahino, Paco Alcacer, Icardi, Jackson Martinez, Luiz Adriano, Lacazette.
Not being sarcastic but would you consider any of these a good enough option for us? Admittedly I've only seen a bit of Icardi and never seen Lacazaette, but I dunno if any of those names jump out as the caliber of striker we have been used to at United.
Cavani would be good enough. I think Jackson Martinez would bring something different to the team, the rest is too young and probably wouldnt be good enough as starters at the moment, but have the potential to be in the future.,I like what i saw from them this season, Lacazette is doing well at the moment and the others too. Obviously they arent in the same bracket as RvP or Falcao. I hope Falcao finds his form and we dont have to think about strikers for next season.
Its more there is a lack of quality defenders like him as opposed to say 10 years ago. He's top drawer and we'll need to be alot higher than 7th I suggest to attract him here.
Cavani has went back a lot since his move to PSG, he lacks the confidence and sharpness in front of goal he had at Napoli due to often playing wide. Lacazette is 23 and has started this season really well looking at his stats, and while YouTube is no barometer he at least appears to be fast, athletic and strong. Icardi looks tailor made to be a Costa style striker, reminds me of Christian Vieri. Those two seem the best options if we needed a striker in the age range between Rooney and Wilson, but like you I'm hoping Falcao is a success here.