Manchester United - January transfer window 2015 (twitter blacklist applies)

Drifter said:
Really thought we would clear out some more dead wood by now. Still time but we're leaving it late.
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There's a reason they're considered dead wood.

Hence, the lack of buyers.

I don't think we'll ever find anyone to take Ando off our books.
 
Nights said:
There's a reason they're considered dead wood.

Hence, the lack of buyers.

I don't think we'll ever find anyone to take Ando off our books.
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We don't need to, he's out of contract in the summer.
 
YouOnlyLiveTwice said:
No more #10's plz!
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Yeah he is No.10 but he could be a better fit than the one we currently have so that shouldn't stop us from getting him. We haven't had much success in this particular role because we can't decide on how to use Rooney, if we view him as a second striker then we should steer clear of De Bruyne like we should have done with Mata/Kagawa because playing a 10 behind two strikers leaves you a bit unbalanced. If we want to persist with two strikers then it makes sense to go for an AM in the Ronaldinho/Hazard mould who can operate effectively from wide positions.
 
itso 7 said:
Yeah he is No.10 but he could be a better fit than the one we currently have so that shouldn't stop us from getting him. We haven't had much success in this particular role because we can't decide on how to use Rooney, if we view him as a second striker then we should steer clear of De Bruyne like we should have done with Mata/Kagawa because playing a 10 behind two strikers leaves you a bit unbalanced. If we want to persist with two strikers then it makes sense to go for an AM in the Ronaldinho/Hazard mould who can operate effectively from wide positions.
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Eaxactly to me I would have one striker with Rooney behind. The fact he is playing two up front and a supposed No.10 is causing problems.
 
Colin129 said:
So West Ham will take Fletcher off our hands, as long as it doesn't cost them anything. Don't do us any favours Sam...

http://hereisthecity.com/en-gb/2015...ng-on-old-trafford-officials-over-darren-fl/?
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Sure they're stingy, but out of respect to Fletcher I think we'd do the right thing by allowing him to negotiate freely to get the best deal possible for himself. I wish him well and hope he can enjoy a few more seasons at a high level, although he's not really at the level we need. Best of luck to him.
 
I don't think we're signing anyone tbh, we're not heavily linked with anyone or even a high number of players.
 
Drifter said:
Really thought we would clear out some more dead wood by now. Still time but we're leaving it late.
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I think we've done exceptionally well to get rid of the amount we have. Getting rid of Buttner, Macheda, Vidic, Evra, Kagawa, Bebe & a few youngsters who wouldn't have made it, as well as the likes of Cleverley, Powell & Zaha on loan. Not to mention the player's that were merely squad options that have either already gone or will soon be gone (Fletcher, Hernandez & dependant on your views Nani).

The likes of Anderson were always going to be here until their contract expired. But realistically in 1 year we could be looking at having gotten rid of or let leave/retire:

Buttner
Macheda
Vidic
Evra
Kagawa
Bebe
Welbeck
Cleverley
Zaha
Powell
Fletcher
Hernandez
Nani
Bebe
Anderson
Giggs

That's pretty insane - probably around £45m a year in wages alone (ignoring the fact that Young/Evans must be pretty nervous).
 
finneh said:
I think we've done exceptionally well to get rid of the amount we have. Getting rid of Buttner, Macheda, Vidic, Evra, Kagawa, Bebe & a few youngsters who wouldn't have made it, as well as the likes of Cleverley, Powell & Zaha on loan. Not to mention the player's that were merely squad options that have either already gone or will soon be gone (Fletcher, Hernandez & dependant on your views Nani).

The likes of Anderson were always going to be here until their contract expired. But realistically in 1 year we could be looking at having gotten rid of or let leave/retire:

Buttner
Macheda
Vidic
Evra
Kagawa
Bebe
Welbeck
Cleverley
Zaha
Powell
Fletcher
Hernandez
Nani
Bebe
Anderson
Giggs

That's pretty insane - probably around £45m a year in wages alone (ignoring the fact that Young/Evans must be pretty nervous).
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Jesus that list is pretty mental all things considered. And to think we do still have some players we would consider deadwood, not good enough or too injury prone to be reliable (Lindegaard, Young, Evans, Smalling, Jones, Valencia). Then you could argue about wrong fit for the team in Mata, Fellaini, Herrera, Falcao (not bad players per se but just not fitting in the current system). HHard to know if the players should change or the formation should.
 
GBBQ said:
Jesus that list is pretty mental all things considered. And to think we do still have some players we would consider deadwood, not good enough or too injury prone to be reliable (Lindegaard, Young, Evans, Smalling, Jones, Valencia). Then you could argue about wrong fit for the team in Mata, Fellaini, Herrera, Falcao (not bad players per se but just not fitting in the current system). HHard to know if the players should change or the formation should.
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To be honest, you should really build the system around the players you have.
 
GBBQ said:
Jesus that list is pretty mental all things considered. And to think we do still have some players we would consider deadwood, not good enough or too injury prone to be reliable (Lindegaard, Young, Evans, Smalling, Jones, Valencia). Then you could argue about wrong fit for the team in Mata, Fellaini, Herrera, Falcao (not bad players per se but just not fitting in the current system). HHard to know if the players should change or the formation should.
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It's a ridiculous transformation over such a short period of time. I think particularly those three will be here as good-great squad options, even if Van Gaal does have a different direction he wants to take the team. However I do agree with Cassidy, the team should be built around the likes of Herrera & Mata. If in the Summer we can get two quality central defenders and a top class winger we should be able to play any system the manager wants.
 
Cassidy said:
To be honest, you should really build the system around the players you have.
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As I've said in another thread today, I think Van Gaal is right to be planning for his own system and whoever can't play that doesn'thave a future. Every manager has a goal of how they want to play and Van Gaal is in a position where he is starting from scratch. Why should he make short term changes that slow down the progress to the long term goal?
 
Pexbo said:
As I've said in another thread today, I think Van Gaal is right to be planning for his own system and whoever can't play that doesn'thave a future. Every manager has a goal of how they want to play and Van Gaal is in a position where he is starting from scratch. Why should he make short term changes that slow down the progress to the long term goal?
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At the moment we don't have all the players to play any formation successfully. So whichever system he wants from next season he is going to have to strengthen somewhere.
 
Pexbo said:
As I've said in another thread today, I think Van Gaal is right to be planning for his own system and whoever can't play that doesn'thave a future. Every manager has a goal of how they want to play and Van Gaal is in a position where he is starting from scratch. Why should he make short term changes that slow down the progress to the long term goal?
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Hes already said hes not playing his preferred system btw (because we don't have the players), so why then does he choose to play another system which we clearly do not have the players for. Its ludicrous, he may as well play his prefeered system in that case.

So actually he is already making short term changes, and slowing down progress. The only thing is, hes doing it and making us play like shit at the same time.
 
Pexbo said:
As I've said in another thread today, I think Van Gaal is right to be planning for his own system and whoever can't play that doesn'thave a future. Every manager has a goal of how they want to play and Van Gaal is in a position where he is starting from scratch. Why should he make short term changes that slow down the progress to the long term goal?
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I agree. How he arrived at the decision to play that system, having only started playing it less than a year earlier, without any real knowledge of the squad and having been told, presumably, that 352 has never been used by the club, or been successful in this league, is what I would question.

But yeah, if he genuinely believes this is the way to go then he has to do it. I suspect it might be the sword he falls upon, though (in the context of not being successful enough, rather than him being sacked).
 
Brophs said:
I agree. How he arrived at the decision to play that system, having only started playing it less than a year earlier, without any real knowledge of the squad and having been told, presumably, that 352 has never been used by the club, or been successful in this league, is what I would question.

But yeah, if he genuinely believes this is the way to go then he has to do it. I suspect it might be the sword he falls upon, though (in the context of not being successful enough, rather than him being sacked).
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The only thing is, hes already said its not the system he wants to play. We'll be playing a different system next season, when he gets the players he wants presumably.
 
Cassidy said:
The only thing is, hes already said its not the system he wants to play. We'll be playing a different system next season, when he gets the players he wants presumably.
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He's said a lot of things. He said for a long period earlier in the season that he did want to play it.
 
DomesticTadpole said:
At the moment we don't have all the players to play any formation successfully. So whichever system he wants from next season he is going to have to strengthen somewhere.
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Yeah I think that goes without saying.

At the moment this is what I'm expecting:

Out:
Blackett - Released
McNair - Released
Evans - Sold
Jones or Smalling - Sold
Valencia - Sold
Fletcher - Released (this window)
Falcao - Not signed
Nani - Sold
Zaha - Sold
Powell - Sold


In:
A rightback
Two centrebacks
A midfielder
A winger
A striker

All high quality but most importantly all in fitting with Van Gaal's plans. The centrebacks will be players that can play RCB or LCB leading to consistency in the back line through being able to play two trusted centrebacks whoever is available.

I.E. If we signed Hummels and Godin (no idea who but just an example)

Godin - Hummels
Smalling - Hummels
Godin - Rojo
Hummels - Rojo
Smalling - Rojo
Smalling - Godin

You'd hope with a 4 like that you could make a pair as long as two are fit.

The other positions speak for themselves, the more quality we have in other areas the more likely Van Gaal can find a formation that lets us play more freely.
 
finneh said:
It's a ridiculous transformation over such a short period of time. I think particularly those three will be here as good-great squad options, even if Van Gaal does have a different direction he wants to take the team. However I do agree with Cassidy, the team should be built around the likes of Herrera & Mata. If in the Summer we can get two quality central defenders and a top class winger we should be able to play any system the manager wants.
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Cassidy said:
To be honest, you should really build the system around the players you have.
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Agreed, would like to see more use of what we have and in the correct positions but i do reckon that our questionable defence (in terms of availability due to fitness issues and general lapses in concentration) means LVG is not comofortable with any combination of two defenders for the majority of matches.

I think Falcao Herrera and AdM are all suffering massively due to this cautious play. Cant help but think that Falcao would be flying if he was getting the sort of service RVN got back in the day. Instead we're expecting him to pick up the ball 20 yards out and finish himself.
 
@Pexbo
If we don't sign Falcao, but keep both Rooney and van Persie, along with Wilson of course, we would hardly need to sign a new striker. However, if we sell one of the former two and skip signing Falcao, then there's a gap.

Unless, we seriously will continue with the 352.
 
Cassidy said:
The only thing is, hes already said its not the system he wants to play. We'll be playing a different system next season, when he gets the players he wants presumably.
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I’d agree that he doesn’t see the 3-5-2 as his long term plan. However, until he gets the players in who can play his system then he should not only play a formation that brings out the player’s best abilities but more importantly the team’s strength.

Otherwise he may not be here long enough to implement his style. That’s something we simply can’t afford to let happen.
 
Pexbo said:
Yeah I think that goes without saying.

At the moment this is what I'm expecting:

Out:
Blackett - Released
McNair - Released
Evans - Sold
Jones or Smalling - Sold
Valencia - Sold
Fletcher - Released (this window)
Falcao - Not signed
Nani - Sold
Zaha - Sold
Powell - Sold


In:
A rightback
Two centrebacks
A midfielder
A winger
A striker

All high quality but most importantly all in fitting with Van Gaal's plans. The centrebacks will be players that can play RCB or LCB leading to consistency in the back line through being able to play two trusted centrebacks whoever is available.

I.E. If we signed Hummels and Godin (no idea who but just an example)

Godin - Hummels
Smalling - Hummels
Godin - Rojo
Hummels - Rojo
Smalling - Rojo
Smalling - Godin

You'd hope with a 4 like that you could make a pair as long as two are fit.

The other positions speak for themselves, the more quality we have in other areas the more likely Van Gaal can find a formation that lets us play more freely.
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I think Blackett, Falcao, Valencia and Nani will stay. Possibly McNair as well. Agree on others. Starting to wonder about Rafael. If he doesn't get fit soon he may be done too.
 
Getsme said:
I’d agree that he doesn’t see the 3-5-2 as his long term plan. However, until he gets the players in who can play his system then he should not only play a formation that brings out the player’s best abilities but more importantly the team’s strength.

Otherwise he may not be here long enough to implement his style. That’s something we simply can’t afford to let happen.
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Same, I can only imagine his persistence with 352 is because of our issues at the back, as it makes us harder to beat than a 442 or a 433 would with the backlines we are having to put out.

Once we get a CB who doesn't get injured putting his boots on to partner Rojo I think we'll see a switch to a more attacking formation, and a better style of play.
 
Kylar Stern said:
Same, I can only imagine his persistence with 352 is because of our issues at the back, as it makes us harder to beat than a 442 or a 433 would with the backlines we are having to put out.

Once we get a CB who doesn't get injured putting his boots on to partner Rojo I think we'll see a switch to a more attacking formation, and a better style of play.
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Funny thing is I don't actually believe 352 has made us more solid or diffucult to beat at all. In fact I would say its had the opposite effect, we still conceed about that same amount of chances per game statistically, but create far fewer chances ourselves....

The most solid we have looked as a team was vs Chelsea, granted we still conceeded chances, but we looked good both defensively and offensively at various moments in the game. That was with a back 4 and playing with 1 Striker...
 
finneh said:
But realistically in 1 year we could be looking at having gotten rid of or let leave/retire:

Buttner
Macheda
Vidic
Evra
Kagawa
Bebe
Welbeck
Cleverley
Zaha
Powell
Fletcher
Hernandez
Nani
Bebe
Anderson
Giggs

That's pretty insane - probably around £45m a year in wages alone (ignoring the fact that Young/Evans must be pretty nervous).
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Looking through that list one thought stands out and that is that we didn't half acquire some dross in recent years.
 
Cassidy said:
Funny thing is I don't actually believe 352 has made us more solid or diffucult to beat at all. In fact I would say its had the opposite effect, we still conceed about that same amount of chances per game statistically, but create far fewer chances ourselves....

The most solid we have looked as a team was vs Chelsea, granted we still conceeded chances, but we looked good both defensively and offensively at various moments in the game. That was with a back 4 and playing with 1 Striker...
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I haven't looked at the stats to verify any of this, but when we do play 352 it certainly seems that we have much more possession of the ball, albeit at the same time looking less likely to do anything positive with it.

It seems that LvG is holding to the mantra that if we have the ball, the opposition can't score, and is hoping for some individual brilliance from RVP/Falcao/Rooney/Di Maria to get a goal from nowhere and hold on.

In my opinion, we looked best this season playing 442 with a diamond, but an inconsistent defence and the tendency to lose the ball often seems to have put that to bed, at least until we have more balance between attack and defence.
 
Kylar Stern said:
I haven't looked at the stats to verify any of this, but when we do play 352 it certainly seems that we have much more possession of the ball, albeit at the same time looking less likely to do anything positive with it.

It seems that LvG is holding to the mantra that if we have the ball, the opposition can't score, and is hoping for some individual brilliance from RVP/Falcao/Rooney/Di Maria to get a goal from nowhere and hold on.

In my opinion, we looked best this season playing 442 with a diamond, but an inconsistent defence and the tendency to lose the ball often seems to have put that to bed, at least until we have more balance between attack and defence.
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TBH the posession thing isn't neccesarily down to the formation, we have also made a change in the way we pass the ball, a lot less risks being taken. Also players who tend to make those risks in CM (Herrera) playing a lot less, and (Di Maria) was out injured, he was the player who would conceed possesion the most for us, but was also our most creative player - RISK TAKER. Likely reason why LVG has moved him out of CM and has tried to play him on the wing at first and now as a striker, the boss obv doesn't like his CMs taking risks.

Still both Rooney and Fellaini have given the ball away in midfield leading to us conceeding a goal in the 352 system.

@Pogue Mahone did the stats of 352 vs 442 in terms of chances conceeded, and it turns out we conceeded more chances playing with 352.
 
Cassidy said:
TBH the posession thing isn't neccesarily down to the formation, we have also made a change in the way we pass the ball, a lot less risks being taken. Also players who tend to make those risks in CM (Herrera) playing a lot less, and (Di Maria) was out injured, he was the player who would conceed possesion the most for us, but was also our most creative player - RISK TAKER. Likely reason why LVG has moved him out of CM and has tried to play him on the wing at first and now as a striker, the boss obv doesn't like his CMs taking risks.

Still both Rooney and Fellaini have given the ball away in midfield leading to us conceeding a goal in the 352 system.

@Pogue Mahone did the stats of 352 vs 442 in terms of chances conceeded, and it turns out we conceeded more chances playing with 352.
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Fair enough if that was the case.

With that in mind, I really have no idea why were persisting with it. Tactical reasons I can accept, but if it makes us perform noticeably worse as a result then it's idiotic.
 
definite sell off

evans
jones
valencia
wiggy
nani or young or both
zaha
powell
RVP

enough alreadys

fletcher (good man)
anderson

and let falcao go , bring back hernandez unless the offer on him exceeds 15m.


get in a rb and a lb , 2 cb's , a striker with pace , and a box to box , uninjured midf.
 
Out:
Anderson
Evans
Fletcher
Nani
Hernandez
Valencia
Young
Smalling
Blackett

In:
CB1-Hummels/ Laporte
CB2-Laporte/ Dragovic
RB-Coleman/ Clyne
LB-????
AM-Bale/ Reus

Something like that would be nice. If Shaw can step up then perhaps we don't need another left back and can keep Young. Perhaps instead of selling Valencia (because he can stay fit) sell Rafael (as much as I do like him when he plays!)
I feel a signing like Bale is important as we need pace. However di Maria hasn't really worked so I'm not sure Bale would too!
 
Zoo said:
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I wonder if this means LvG wanted the Austrian lad as 4th choice option and the board have said no, they want to wait for the main options.

J-Stander said:
http://www.espnfc.com/story/2267164...e-ruled-out-stop-gap-january-signings-sources

Article from Miguel Delaney. Says that Roma won't sell Strootman this month and Clyne might be a possibility as he's expected to leave in the Summer anyway. CB and RB priorities but we've struggled to get our top targets in this window, which was expected really.
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It's a mess given how tight the race for top 4 is but the last thing we need is more average players so it's the right call. I hope we forget about Strootman.
 
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