Arsenal wanted Smalling. And I'm willing to bet many more clubs would be interested in Evans over Lescott. You're judging our defenders on two or three games, which is incredibly shortsighted considering what they've achieved in previous seasons.
Manchester United - January transfer window 2015 (twitter blacklist applies)
- Thread starter Devil may care
- Start date
I was merely responding to someone who asked who was available, these were all gettable, anyway you can't tell me our defence would'nt be in a healthier position now if we'd got Godin, and Garay in, which we could have done for about £35 million.
Not in anyway having a go at LvG here btw, sure he'll sort it all out with time.
Many clubs would be in to sign them. Every club outside the top 6 if they could afford their wages. I expect the likes of Everton and, yes, Spurs would take interest, too. Arsenal's interest in Smalling and Jones is already well established, but carry on.
We've played a back four twice since May. Our most reliable full back - this is where dickheads pretend that Shaw hasn't been reliable elsewhere - has yet to play a competitive game for the club, and our other regular full back has just played his second game since March. Our new centre back has yet to actually play a game in that position and our other central defenders, all of whom have irrefutable experience of dealing competently with a variety of attackers in the division, have suffered from injury all throughout pre-season and the opening few games. Then there was the dalliance with the 352, which has already been shafted.
We need to some consistency at the back, and it will take some time. But yes, conceding 5 against Leicester is an anomaly. Blackett isn't ready for first team football at this level and Rojo had a very bad game in his first away game. The team collectively lost their heads from a comfortable position and I don't expect to see anything like that happen again.
I'm extremely confident that our full backs are set. They have proven more than good enough to play at this level. Rojo, I don't know much about, so we'll have to see. As for the others, with fitness and a run of games I am confident they will do well, as they have done in the past. Defending is more to do with set up as it is the individual qualities of the defenders. I stressed so in another thread recently but Gary Cahill's improvement under Mourinho and Crystal Palace under Pulis are just specific examples of this.
Believe what you want lad. I'll be right in time.
I cited the 6 games so far this season, not two or three. And IF Arsenal wanted Smalling they would have wanted him for squad cover/backup only.
Well only the inexperienced Blackett has played all the games, and he's in because of injuries. You're either on the wind-up or deluded if you genuinely think Smalling, Evans and Jones are shite defenders.
How on earth do you know what Arsenal wanted him for? Stop cracking shite.
Because we don't need new players. We already are well stocked in all departments and i am confident that our CB options are good enough. At least 2 of our 5 CB will prove that they are good enough. My bet is on Jones and Rojo.
Conceding 5 against Leicester is an anomaly only in the sense than it's two more than the average of nearly 3 goals conceded per game so far this season. I guess the 4 conceded against MK Dons was another "anomaly".
The rest of your post is series of excuses. The injury-record of your defenders was known before the summer ... and no-one forced you to shed your experienced defenders nor focus your spending on attackers.
"We already are well stocked in all departments ... At least 2 of our 5 CB will prove that they are good enough"
LOL ... so maybe only 40% of your CBs will prove (future tense) that they're good enough, but this equates to being "well-stocked". I've heard it all now.
I don't know that Arsenal wanted him at all, but IF they did, then which first-choice, first XI Arsenal CB did you seriously imagine that Smalling was going to replace?
The rest of my post is full of my analysis, and the 'excuses' are all true. Defences take time to gel and ours need the time to do that more than ever. It still suffers to this day from the Ferguson rotational madness that only served to stifle youth, fellate experience and obstruct defensive chemistry in the name of playing Rio Ferdinand every two weeks. Thankfully the likes of Rio have pissed off and we can finally, hopefully, get back to playing the same four players in defence every single week like all successful teams do. We haven't had that solidity in years now and it's something that all of these expert analysts conveniently choose to ignore.
We have shed our experienced defenders and in the long term that will be viewed as a positive. I take your point about the injury records of our defenders, but neither you or I are privy to the medical records of the medical experts at Manchester United, and therefore we can't really dispute their findings that predict Smalling, Jones and Evans should experience fewer injuries this season. We can only wait and see on that one.
The MK Dons match I am happy to ignore, too. We will not be playing a 352 with Marnick Vermijl, Tyler Blackett, Saidy Janko, Ashley Young and an unfit Jonny Evans in defence ever again this season. If we do we'll be playing Championship football next season.
most probably we wont be playing anybody from div 1 either though - pl fixtures plus whoever we get in the fa cup - any you could argue that we have yet to face any particularly strong pl opposition (chelsea, city, arsenal, liverpool, everton, spurs) - after the west ham game we have everton, westbrom, chelsea and city - I guess after those games we will have a better idea but right now im not feeling confident unless we all of a sudden click against west ham - but having seem them against liverpool that looks like it will be a hard fought game
Let's look at the defence. Evans isn't good enough to lead a defence for us at 26, and he arguably never will be. Always had Ferdinand and Vidic to carry him. Smalling whilst a decent defender lacks too much on the ball to ever be a top top defender. Jones has done well, but is injury prone. Jury is out on Rojo.
We need someone in to shore things up, even if it's only short term thinking. Ron Vlaar will only have 6 months on his contract left in January. The way Villa have started you'd imagine they'll be practically safe by that point. I'd get him in, with a view to shipping out Smalling and Evans in the summer for a top class defender (i.e. someone like Hummels).
Midfield - for the deep role, Daley Blind who again the jury is out on as he's only played 2 games for us. Carrick will come back too. I think we can all agree that neither Fellaini or Fletcher are good enough here and should be moved on. I'm fine with giving Blind this season in rotation alongside Carrick.
Plenty of play makers, although it's the sort of box-to-box role we don't have sufficient amount. Herrera is the only real player we can play there. Strootman is obtainable, just get him in. He's played under the manager, knows Blind and Vlaar (if he is to be brought in), and adds the physicality we need.
Going forward we have plenty of options.
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In short, January get in Vlaar and Strootman. Sell some of the squad/useless players to help with funds/wages etc.
We need someone in to shore things up, even if it's only short term thinking. Ron Vlaar will only have 6 months on his contract left in January. The way Villa have started you'd imagine they'll be practically safe by that point. I'd get him in, with a view to shipping out Smalling and Evans in the summer for a top class defender (i.e. someone like Hummels).
Midfield - for the deep role, Daley Blind who again the jury is out on as he's only played 2 games for us. Carrick will come back too. I think we can all agree that neither Fellaini or Fletcher are good enough here and should be moved on. I'm fine with giving Blind this season in rotation alongside Carrick.
Plenty of play makers, although it's the sort of box-to-box role we don't have sufficient amount. Herrera is the only real player we can play there. Strootman is obtainable, just get him in. He's played under the manager, knows Blind and Vlaar (if he is to be brought in), and adds the physicality we need.
Going forward we have plenty of options.
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In short, January get in Vlaar and Strootman. Sell some of the squad/useless players to help with funds/wages etc.
Very true. It will be difficult, and even against these top teams I don't expect to see a major improvement immediately. I expect to see it over the course of the season, though. I'm not all that confident in the short term. We have talented defenders, but almost all of them have played nowhere near enough football over the past two seasons, never mind actually playing together. Things can only improve as they play more games together.
It's also down to Van Gaal as well. He has to make sure the team is set up to help the defence. I didn't realise it until I had a browse through Rafa's thread, but both he and Rojo had next to no protection and the wide men of Leicester were able to exploit all that space. Rafael, in particular, was very isolated. I'm droning on a little, but what I'm certain of is that paying £50 million for a defender like Thiago Silva, never mind a clown like the suddenly-rated Ron Vlaar, and throwing him straight into our defence just isn't going to immediately counter problems that festered under Ferguson, collapsed under Moyes, and has been shoddily left at the feet of Van Gaal. The defence issue is going to take time. If these are "excuses" then so be it, but I just can't see a solution overnight. I'm happy to trust what we have for now.
What's the general view on Fabian Schar?
I think if we're to bring in a defender he has to be top quality or Premier League proven.
http://www.tuttosport.com/calcio/se...206/Vidal,+lo+United+prepara+un+altro+assalto
Tuttosport saying we could be going back in for Vidal as Roma want too much for Strootman.
Tuttosport saying we could be going back in for Vidal as Roma want too much for Strootman.
Vidic wanted to leaves as did Evra, and Ferdinand is done. We most probably wanted an experienced cb in the summer but it didn't happen for whatever reason. When a player like Di Maria is available and needed and you have the money you sign him. The spending isn't over and you don't always get to fix it all in one window.
Why do Roma keep coming out and saying shite over Strootman, if he's really not for sale then just dismiss it, say there's nothing to the story. Constantly saying he's not for sale, he's 60M, 100M BS is just stating that he is for sale. If Strootman wants to come Roma will take 30M for him easy, no questions about it.
The average of 3 (which is abolutely wrong anyway because it's nowhere near as high) is raised because of 5 goals conceded against Leicester but you seem unable to understand that. Prior to that game we conceded 3 Premier League goals in 4 games, 2 against Swansea which were silly goals and 1 against Sunderland. We kept a clean sheet against Burnley and QPR. We had an average of 0.75 goals conceded per game in Premier League prior to Leicester game yet you think it's not an anomaly - how ridiculous can you get?
And we've not conceded an average of 3 goals a game. You're batshit mental because you count goals conceded against MK Dons but don't count the game, and you're still wrong.
In Premier League we've conceded 8 goals in 5 games - that's an average of 1.6 goal per game, 5 of them were against Leicester. If you count MK Dons game it's 12 goals in 6 games - 12 by 6 is 2.
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2 against Swansea
4 against MK Dons
1 against Sunderland
5 against Leicester
2+4+1+5+0+0 = 12.
Basic mathematics are so far out of your reach.
Just for the record I don't think our defence is anywhere near good enough at the minute but to make up stats like that to prove a point is mental. It's early into the season and Glaston has already imploded.
I'm trying to come up with a theory why he managed to make it an average of 3 goals per game before Leicester game to point out it wasn't anomaly and the only way to come up with that is to combine both goals scored and conceded:
3 goals v Swansea
2 goals v Sunderland
4 goals v QPR
0 goals v Burnley
4 goals v MK Dons
4+4+3+2=13, and 13 by 5 is 2.6 so it's ALMOST 3 per game. So Glaston has probably been using goals we've actually scored not conceded to prove deficiences in our defence.
I'm trying to come up with a theory why he managed to make it an average of 3 goals per game before Leicester game to point out it wasn't anomaly and the only way to come up with that is to combine both goals scored and conceded:
3 goals v Swansea
2 goals v Sunderland
4 goals v QPR
0 goals v Burnley
4 goals v MK Dons
4+4+3+2=13, and 13 by 5 is 2.6 so it's ALMOST 3 per game. So Glaston has probably been using goals we've actually scored not conceded to prove deficiences in our defence.
Whatever one wants to say about our back line is fair game after a five-goal debacle, but bringing in MK Dons is completely mental. Louis did not field his best squad that day and truthfully, we're better off being out of the competition than still in it. Our sole focus this season is a top four finish and anything that distracts from that is not welcome.
Make it happen! Right?
@GlastonSpur
17 goals includes pre-season and that includes 12 ganes. 17 goals over 12 games if we choose to use his set of criteria is 1.4 a game, not bad..
@GlastonSpur
17 goals includes pre-season and that includes 12 ganes. 17 goals over 12 games if we choose to use his set of criteria is 1.4 a game, not bad..
So he is counting goals conceded in non-competitive games as goals conceded in competitive. 2 goals conceded against Roma count as 2 conceded against Burnley and a goal from Real Madrid goes to QPR?
Surely you should be measuring the Leicester game against the previous results. In the previous 5 games we conceded 7. An average of 1.4 goals conceded. So, yes, the Leicester game was an anomaly.
EDIT: You're using pre-season?!
FFS, what a wind-up.The average of 3 (which is abolutely wrong anyway because it's nowhere near as high) is raised because of 5 goals conceded against Leicester but you seem unable to understand that. Prior to that game we conceded 3 Premier League goals in 4 games, 2 against Swansea which were silly goals and 1 against Sunderland. We kept a clean sheet against Burnley and QPR. We had an average of 0.75 goals conceded per game in Premier League prior to Leicester game yet you think it's not an anomaly - how ridiculous can you get?
And we've not conceded an average of 3 goals a game. You're batshit mental because you count goals conceded against MK Dons but don't count the game, and you're still wrong.
There are just three kinds of people in this world: those that can count and those that can't
I think we should sign another forward instead of a center back again.
Then complain about the squads lack of balance.
Godin: Yeah I think we should had go for him. But I'm not so sure if he will do well in EPL
Mangala: He won't solve our problem at the moment. I have no idea why people even said he played very good against Chelsea. He made some errors and Kompany did really well to cover his errors. And if I have to choose 2 or 3 players to blame for Chelsea goal Mangala is one of them (not the main culprit though).
Garay: Way too late. I think he had talk with Zenit before LVG came to Manchester.
Benatia: He picked Bayern, I expect us to beat Arsenal and Liverpool in last summer transfer but not Bayern, may be we should indeed cash on him earlier instead of Falcao and Rojo.
Di Vrij, Lescott, and Caulker: Not too sure.
Vlaar: Well, would be nice to sign him (cheap and experienced, can speak English and command the back four). But if I remember his injury record isn't too impressed.
Shawcross wouldn't be a bad option. Cheaper option. and he's not an injury prone so would be nice. I just haven't pay attention on him since last year. So I have no idea how he progressed.
Has Godin got a buyout clause? He's tailor made for the PL.
Why are you all falling on Glastonspur's wumming?
And he obviously skipped mathematics often at school.
It would be hard to get a quality CB in the january TW, maybe one decent as a stop gap measure than a wc CB in the summer.
And he obviously skipped mathematics often at school.
It would be hard to get a quality CB in the january TW, maybe one decent as a stop gap measure than a wc CB in the summer.
There are just three kinds of people in this world: those that can count and those that can't
You can count goals perfectly well but you can't count game.
36m euros
I hope we can get someone like Aymeric Laporte. He's one of the best CB talents around and even if they ask for something close to 30m, he would be worth every penny.
Great talent. £32m buyout clause is a bit hefty but could end up being like the Rio deal in that in the long term, it'd be well worth the money.
Despite his age he'd be worth it IMO, he's the leader of the Atleti backline.
Tbh in January I'd love to see us move for shawcross, vertonghen and maybe try tie up laporte from Bilbao (get agent Herrera on it) all are fairly realistic and massive improvements on what we currently have and will solidify our backline.
Also I heard rumours about Romero the Argie keeper I'd like to see a top quality keeper come in to keep de gea on his toes.
Also I heard rumours about Romero the Argie keeper I'd like to see a top quality keeper come in to keep de gea on his toes.
Actually make that Laporte and Inigo Martinez. That would be our back line sorted for many many years.