Manchester United charged with failing to control players against Newcastle - Klopp charged too. Blames the wind.

Why did so many players surround the referee right after Ronaldo scored. It's as if the players know that this one goal will make or break the game.
 
Honestly just wish the club could submit a request to exclude Pawson from reffing our games in the future.
Like we've seen Oliver, Dean (happy retirement), Anthony Taylor, Stuart Attwell and many others all have shocking ref performances for our games over the years, but Pawson is the only one that is consistently terrible.
 
We do have a terrible recent record with Pawson. 4W 6D 7L in the last 17 PL games. That’s nearly relegation form.

Interestingly it was 8W 3D before that though.
 
Maybe fans of all clubs should protest against the shit refereeing by holding up banners during the game about how incompetent they are. Get some media coverage on it and the FA might do something.
 
Zetrio2002 said:
Why did so many players surround the referee right after Ronaldo scored. It's as if the players know that this one goal will make or break the game.
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Because it was a farcical decision and everyone could see that?
 
RedOrange said:
The specific situation being talked about here is Manchester United players crowding the referee and trying to influence his decision after Ronaldo stole the ball in a dead ball situation and kicked it in the net. We'd all be furious if Almiron did what Ronaldo did and successfully convinced the referee to award a goal. Why don't you explain how that sort of behavior improves refereeing decisions? Are we just ignoring the fact that teams used to regularly crowd the referee trying to influence them into making the wrong decision?

Also if you don't see how people screaming at teenage referees in youth football, for example, disincentivizes them from continuing, and how that might affect the number and quality of referees at higher levels then I don't know what to tell you. Your argument is that actively making the job as awful and stressful as possible makes the decisions better, but it's been like that for decades and most people think the officiating is the worst it's ever been.
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I'm not talking specifically about an incident, but rather in general questioning why players shouldn't sharply question the referee when they've made a blatantly bad decision.

My argument is that there needs to be accountability for poor performances. Like there is pretty much every other profession. If I mess up constantly, my boss will shout at me, whether that deincentivizes me from continuing or not. Refs make so many mistakes because they hardly have to suffer any consequences. If now players or managers can't even raise their voices at them, that just gives the message that refs are beyond reproach, no matter how bad they are.
 
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King7Eric said:
My argum

I'm not talking specifically about an incident, but rather in general questioning why players shouldn't sharply question the referee when they've made a blatantly bad decision.

My argument is that there needs to be accountability for poor performances. Like there is pretty much every other profession. If I mess up constantly, my boss will shout at me, whether that deincentivizes me from continuing or not. Refs make so many mistakes because they hardly have to suffer any consequences. If now players or managers can't even raise their voices at them, that just gives the message that refs are beyond reproach, no matter how bad they are.
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Pawson has just refereed a championship match for the first time in years. That’s consequences. Your argument has more holes than a block of Emmental.
 
I’d be pretty certain that a fairly passionate appeal will mean that var is more likely to look really carefully at an incident. Might not lead to them then making the right decision but they’ll at least look at it properly.
 
Zetrio2002 said:
Why did so many players surround the referee right after Ronaldo scored. It's as if the players know that this one goal will make or break the game.
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Because they all heard the whistle and seen the defender pass the ball?
 
I don't mind referees getting split second decisions wrong, it's human nature, but when they've looked at Var replays and then decided to stick with their original bad decisions then you do have to wonder...
 
So the ref completely fecks up all major decisions (seemingly only against us) throughout the game. Yet we are the ones that are getting punished? The FA is a joke basically.

And that cnut of a ref can go feck himself. Probably moaned about us to the FA after fecking up his decisions all game.
 
It's silly that clubs can be charged for failing to control players but the refs are never held accountable for incompetence
 
So what were 'Manchester United' supposed to do in this situation, the board, manager, coaches run on the pitch to tell the players off. Then get done for running on the pitch.
 
phelans shorts said:
Pawson has just refereed a championship match for the first time in years. That’s consequences. Your argument has more holes than a block of Emmental.
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Good. Any ref who makes regular howlers should be demoted. So that's a good start.

I only eat Gouda so I don't know how many holes are there in a block of Emmental.
 
I mean there is someone, org, institutions to govern someones or even countries, but is there anyone to overlook/govern the football bodies like FA, EPL, Ref, Uefa, FIFA. Serious question. If not, then, its a joke really.
 
King7Eric said:
Refs make so many mistakes because they hardly have to suffer any consequences. If now players or managers can't even raise their voices at them, that just gives the message that refs are beyond reproach, no matter how bad they are.
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This bolded bit is an assertion you'll have to back up with some examples. Referees make mistakes because they are doing an extremely difficult job, and encouraging fans, players and managers to scream and crowd them without consequence isn't going to improve anything. I'm sure it makes you feel wonderful inside when you get to scream and swear at someone who didn't give you what you wanted, but it does nothing else.

You are also again ignoring the fact that managers and players frequently abuse referees with the goal of influencing them to make the wrong decision for their own benefit, and Ronaldo's stunt vs Newcastle was a perfect example. It wasn't a goal by the letter of the spirit of the laws. If we are to believe that referee abuse influences their decisions then it's as likely to influence them to make incorrect decisions as correct ones
 
RedOrange said:
This bolded bit is an assertion you'll have to back up with some examples. Referees make mistakes because they are doing an extremely difficult job, and encouraging fans, players and managers to scream and crowd them without consequence isn't going to improve anything. I'm sure it makes you feel wonderful inside when you get to scream and swear at someone who didn't give you what you wanted, but it does nothing else.

You are also again ignoring the fact that managers and players frequently abuse referees with the goal of influencing them to make the wrong decision for their own benefit, and Ronaldo's stunt vs Newcastle was a perfect example. It wasn't a goal by the letter of the spirit of the laws. If we are to believe that referee abuse influences their decisions then it's as likely to influence them to make incorrect decisions as correct ones
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Just a question. They have got VAR to help them out. How can they keep doing mistakes over and over again despite VAR? I'm not talking about 50/50 situations that can go either way, but those ones who are as clear as you can see. For example, how didn't Ronaldo or atleast Sancho get penalties last game? How? How can they miss that? How can they watch that and say "oh, it is nothing". Or when it comes to Klopp, how can linesman 5 yeards away with clear sight miss UFC handling of Salah and think that it is nothing?

And when does things happen, how can you say to players/managers to be calm and just play on. They are humans. They got emotions.
 
90 + 5min said:
Just a question. They have got VAR to help them out. How can they keep doing mistakes over and over again despite VAR? I'm not talking about 50/50 situations that can go either way, but those ones who are as clear as you can see. For example, how didn't Ronaldo or atleast Sancho get penalties last game? How? How can they miss that? How can they watch that and say "oh, it is nothing". Or when it comes to Klopp, how can linesman 5 yeards away with clear sight miss UFC handling of Salah and think that it is nothing?

And when does things happen, how can you say to players/managers to be calm and just play on. They are humans. They got emotions.
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This is a problem that exists in a lot of sports that VAR doesn't actually fix, because what constitutes a foul is fairly subjective. When it's something like "did the ball go over the line" or "was that player offside" it either is or it isn't. So we have a bit of a subjective call, and especially for missed penalties the tradeoff is that you have to stop the match fairly frequently so the referee can go and inspect the video to make sure a defender's toe didn't nick the ball before nicking the attacker's foot. I don't know how many people here watch NFL football but in the last 2 minutes of each half they do video replay on all goals and turnovers and the game just grinds to a halt.

So, it's difficult to get right sometimes, referees make mistakes and there are real tradeoffs to using VAR to check every decision. But again, referee abuse won't reduce the mistakes, it will just make fewer people want to be referees.
 
RedOrange said:
This is a problem that exists in a lot of sports that VAR doesn't actually fix, because what constitutes a foul is fairly subjective. When it's something like "did the ball go over the line" or "was that player offside" it either is or it isn't. So we have a bit of a subjective call, and especially for missed penalties the tradeoff is that you have to stop the match fairly frequently so the referee can go and inspect the video to make sure a defender's toe didn't nick the ball before nicking the attacker's foot. I don't know how many people here watch NFL football but in the last 2 minutes of each half they do video replay on all goals and turnovers and the game just grinds to a halt.

So, it's difficult to get right sometimes, referees make mistakes and there are real tradeoffs to using VAR to check every decision. But again, referee abuse won't reduce the mistakes, it will just make fewer people want to be referees.
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So what happened just before HT now. Dalot is down and the ref didn't stop play when he did for Dier literally minutes before. Still players shouldn't complain according to you?
 
King7Eric said:
So what happened just before HT now. Dalot is down and the ref didn't stop play when he did for Dier literally minutes before. Still players shouldn't complain according to you?
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Who said players should never complain? Your argument is that referees should be screamed at and abused. I said they shouldn't. What an obnoxious strawman you're building here.
 
RedOrange said:
This is a problem that exists in a lot of sports that VAR doesn't actually fix, because what constitutes a foul is fairly subjective. When it's something like "did the ball go over the line" or "was that player offside" it either is or it isn't. So we have a bit of a subjective call, and especially for missed penalties the tradeoff is that you have to stop the match fairly frequently so the referee can go and inspect the video to make sure a defender's toe didn't nick the ball before nicking the attacker's foot. I don't know how many people here watch NFL football but in the last 2 minutes of each half they do video replay on all goals and turnovers and the game just grinds to a halt.

So, it's difficult to get right sometimes, referees make mistakes and there are real tradeoffs to using VAR to check every decision. But again, referee abuse won't reduce the mistakes, it will just make fewer people want to be referees.
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I don't think we need to talk about NFL, sport I actually watch.

What would be good for everyone is mic on referees and in VAR room to hear conversation about decisions. What did they say about those situations? Simulation? Not enough kicking? Wrong colour on the shirt? Every week we have decision that are amazing. Every week we get situations that you wonder if they actually watch anything in the VAR room. This is not about 50/50 decisions. It is clear decisions that they somehow choose to make wrong call. Every week we get different decisions for same things. Quality is very, very poor and have been for a while.
 
90 + 5min said:
What would be good for everyone is mic on referees and in VAR room to hear conversation about decisions. What did they say about those situations? Simulation? Not enough kicking? Wrong colour on the shirt? Every week we have decision that are amazing. Every week we get situations that you wonder if they actually watch anything in the VAR room. This is not about 50/50 decisions. It is clear decisions that they somehow choose to make wrong call. Every week we get different decisions for same things. Quality is very, very poor and have been for a while.
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I think we can agree that there could be changes to the way matches are refereed (perhaps another linesman, a dedicated VAR referee who watches from above, referees standing behind goal, etc). What I was disagreeing with is that referees should be abused or threatened if they make mistakes, which is exactly what King7Eric was arguing.
 
RedOrange said:
Who said players should never complain? Your argument is that referees should be screamed at and abused. I said they shouldn't. What an obnoxious strawman you're building here.
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You're the one who's deliberately clinging on to flimsy arguments. In the heat of the moment, the line between complain and shouting will get blurred very quickly. No player is going to come up to the ref and say, " Excuse me Sir, may I beg your indulgence for a moment to point out a mistake you may have made". They are going to shout if they complain.

Anyone who's played any sport will testify to that.
 
King7Eric said:
You're the one who's deliberately clinging on to flimsy arguments. In the heat of the moment, the line between complain and shouting will get blurred very quickly. No player is going to come up to the ref and say, " Excuse me Sir, may I beg your indulgence for a moment to point out a mistake you may have made". They are going to shout if they complain.

Anyone who's played any sport will testify to that.
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Keep behaving like a child, throwing tantrums and screaming at people until you get your way. Seems like it's working wonders. Done arguing with you, it's like dealing with a 6 year old child.

https://www.redcafe.net/members/king7eric.105642/ignore
 
We've been charged again for the second time in as many weeks. Cnuts.
 
Our players must be the only players that complain about decisions that go against them.
 
The vast majority of teams do this on a regular basis when there’s a controversial decision, even worse than we did against Chelsea yet nothing happens. The FA are a bunch of useless cnuts. I hope the club tell them to go feck themselves, would obviously never happen though.
 
We've had at least 20 penalties not called since klopp cried to the media and they want to charge us because we dare question the ref feck off. Literally didn't get a penalty called against Chelsea 2 seasons ago because the ref thought there would be a lot of talk if he gave it, even though VAR said it was and told him to look at again.

Next time a decision goes in our favor (might be never) and the other team surrounds the ref we should be sending the video of it into the league. feck it
 
We should be allowed to charge the FA with supplying incompetent or corrupt officials.
 
PoTMS said:
We've been charged again for the second time in as many weeks. Cnuts.
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What incident this time? The ref not stopping play for the dalot head injury against spurs about 5 mins after he did for the dier head injury by any chance?
 
So how much the fine? I mean, United is rich. We tried to be as discipline as other teams, but we still get charged. Might as well let it loose in every game.
 
ShinjiNinja26 said:
The vast majority of teams do this on a regular basis when there’s a controversial decision, even worse than we did against Chelsea yet nothing happens. The FA are a bunch of useless cnuts. I hope the club tell them to go feck themselves, would obviously never happen though.
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Exactly. Were Spurs charged for surrounding the ref after Wilson bounced Lloris to the floor before scoring at the weekend? The double standards are ridiculous.
 
phelans shorts said:
Pawson has just refereed a championship match for the first time in years. That’s consequences. Your argument has more holes than a block of Emmental.
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Exactly his point. First time in years when in reality he has been shit since so why hasn't he been reffing more Championship games then? Consequences that barely happens when refs have been fecking up forever.

His argument is spot on. Refs barely, if ever are held accountable and this has to change beginning with this.
 
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