Manchester United charged with failing to control players against Newcastle - Klopp charged too. Blames the wind.

Annoys me referees are seen as untouchable. They make wrong decisions week in week out even when you have the ability to view the incident with VAR.

Theres no excuse for that. They are genuinely not up to scratch. It’s time they get held responsible for the poor calls they make.
 
Did anything happen after the whistle? I turned it off once the whistle blew.

If it’s purely for the reaction after the disallowed goal, then it’s ridiculous. Yeah they were surrounding the ref but I hardly saw anything wrong, or saw anything different from when other teams do it.
 
phelans shorts said:
I mean, we had to be really. It doesn’t matter that the call was wrong, you can’t have all ten outfield players surrounding the referee complaining like that. It was obvious at the time. Not sure how anyone can complain
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Why exactly can't we have that? High time players started taking a stand against blatantly terrible refereeing. The refs get away with murder and we have FA running respect campaigns.
 
OnlyTwoDaSilvas said:
There was clear dissent from us, but nothing unlike you see in any other game, nor was it even the worst incident of dissent this gameweek.

I'd like to see both stronger and more consistent punishment for dissent. They need to throw the book everytime, even if it means throwing the book at everyone in the short term.
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I agree. It’s one of the shittier aspects of football and would be good to stamp it out.
 
phelans shorts said:
I mean, we had to be really. It doesn’t matter that the call was wrong, you can’t have all ten outfield players surrounding the referee complaining like that. It was obvious at the time. Not sure how anyone can complain
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That would make sense only if FA would charge teams every time they gang up on the ref. But it seems that the decisions are taken based on how the ref submits his report. Which is ridiculous. Again, the major problem with FA is how they pick and choose their charges.
 
Oranges038 said:
Was thinking about that the other day.

I wouldn't be surprised if you'd find out the only people who stick it out all the way are not much different from what we see on a regular basis anyway.
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I'm not sure to be honest. I have played in some decent sides with tonnes of lads who played a few league games/National League games but never made it as a full-time professional. Three of my former housemates all still played semi-pro into their 30s for next to no money.

What you see with these lads is many will do anything to stay in and around football.

So many of the ones who dont quite make it become analysts, coaches, physio's, sports scientists etc...I am sure 1% of those would fancy a crack at refereeing if the right schemes were in-place
 
What's the actual punishment for this? A small fine for the club?

I might get some hate for this but that wasn't a goal at all. Maybe it is in some obnoxious legalistic view whereby the player technically played the ball but in reality he rolled it slightly towards the keeper at the same time as Pawson blew the whistle, which is why Ronaldo just stood there for a while. Nobody would have argued that the free kick was already taken until Ronaldo took it and kicked it into the net. He hatched a little scheme to just kick the ball in the net during a dead ball and then tried to bully the referee into allowing it. Good on him for the creativity I guess but allowing that sort of thing makes for less entertaining matches overall.

Pawson was crap but not for that. He missed about 3 penalties and just let Newcastle waste time without repercussion. Whoever the referee was for Newcastle vs Liverpool gave 8 minutes added time and let liverpool keep going until they scored. I guess screaming at the 4th official for 20 minutes in every match eventually pays off.
 
The FA and their refs are some of the worst in Europe, it is disgraceful.
 
Is this to do with the players’ reaction to the Ronaldo disallowed goal?
 
Clubs should file complaints against the FA for failure to put competent refs in place. The inconsistencies are unreal. VAR is a joke. No accountability whatsoever.
 
The Saudi influence already taking hold. Ref bought off, and the press and others spinning the narrative that we have poor discipline, and so to punish us which will influence future decisions/games.
 
Not a bad thing at all. Will help build a bit of a siege mentality with the dressing room.

I have been crying out for our players to fight decisions for ages. De Gea and Maguire particularly have long been far too mopey at accepting setbacks in our own box and not screaming blue murder for potential soft fouls.
 
King7Eric said:
So according to you refs can be as bad as possible, but players should be okay with it?
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I think there’s a line that the players didn’t just cross, they danced over. Behaviour like that doesn’t help raise refereeing standards, it actively lowers them by turning people off of refereeing, as well as unnecessarily increasing pressure which leads to more poor decisions.

that’s ignoring the fact that behaving like that is only going to lead to the referee not giving that team decisions as a deserved massive feck you.
 
I feel like this happens to us every season. I don’t even know if any other teams actually get charged for this besides United.
 
phelans shorts said:
I think there’s a line that the players didn’t just cross, they danced over. Behaviour like that doesn’t help raise refereeing standards, it actively lowers them by turning people off of refereeing, as well as unnecessarily increasing pressure which leads to more poor decisions.

that’s ignoring the fact that behaving like that is only going to lead to the referee not giving that team decisions as a deserved massive feck you.
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It's been proven that putting pressure on the referee will give you advantage.
 
pc gone mad. can’t even crowd around the ref nowadays and threaten to petrol bomb his house with his kids inside. insane.

i had to give up watching my kids play when i wasn’t allowed to offer the ref out to the car park for a straightener after another questionable decision. like i told her at the time, just let the game flow and stop making it all about you. game’s gone.
 
Alvaro Maestre said:
Whats the max amount of players?
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10 but ref caught Martinez getting a piggyback off de Gea.

rimaldo said:
pc gone mad. can’t even crowd around the ref nowadays and threaten to petrol bomb his house with his kids inside. insane.

i had to give up watching my kids play when i wasn’t allowed to offer the ref out to the car park for a straightener after another questionable decision. like i told her at the time, just let the game flow and stop making it all about you. game’s gone.
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Should've thrown her a gang sign to make sure she knew you meant business.
 
phelans shorts said:
I think there’s a line that the players didn’t just cross, they danced over. Behaviour like that doesn’t help raise refereeing standards, it actively lowers them by turning people off of refereeing, as well as unnecessarily increasing pressure which leads to more poor decisions.

that’s ignoring the fact that behaving like that is only going to lead to the referee not giving that team decisions as a deserved massive feck you.
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Even refs have come out and said that things like SAF calling them out and putting pressure on them made them conscious of giving decisions against his team, so I don't think your last point holds much weight.

And refs seem to be the only ones on a football pitch who don't have to suffer repercussions for their poor performances. A player would get lambasted by his manager for a poor performance. Every manager gets slated by the press when they make wrong calls. So I don't see why refs ( who's wrong calls may adversely affect so many players and managers) should get away with players standing next to them with hands behind their backs and politely questioning their repeated howlers.

If they can't deal with this much pressure, they shouldn't be refereeing.
 
King7Eric said:
Even refs have come out and said that things like SAF calling them out and putting pressure on them made them conscious of giving decisions against his team, so I don't think your last point holds much weight.

And refs seem to be the only ones on a football pitch who don't have to suffer repercussions for their poor performances. A player would get lambasted by his manager for a poor performance. Every manager gets slated by the press when they make wrong calls. So I don't see why refs ( who's wrong calls may adversely affect so many players and managers) should get away with players standing next to them with hands behind their backs and politely questioning their repeated howlers.

If they can't deal with this much pressure, they shouldn't be refereeing.
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Players surrounding the referee in an attempt to bully them and influence the decision doesn't improve the quality of refereeing decisions. It definitely hampers the referee's ability to think clearly and make the correct call in a lot of situations.

Do you honestly think referees being screamed at by players, managers and fans from the PL all the way down to youth football improves the quality of refereeing decisions? Do you think that competent, skilled people will want to continue being referees if they're subjected to this kind of behavior?
 
That seems a remarkably inoffensive protest to get charged for. Pretty much see at least one incident like that every match.
 
It's something I'd like see us stamp out to be honest.

Bruno in particular is a petulant little shit in almost every game. If he spent half as much time concentrating on completing his passes as he did screaming at referees or his teammates, he'd be twice the player.

No point giving about Klopp being a scumbag if we're going to make excuses for our own lads acting the maggot.
 
i would like football to implement similar systems to rugby whereby our fans have to down pints of piss and get our tadgers out at full time or any time someone says the word “cyril”
 
RedOrange said:
Players surrounding the referee in an attempt to bully them and influence the decision doesn't improve the quality of refereeing decisions. It definitely hampers the referee's ability to think clearly and make the correct call in a lot of situations.

Do you honestly think referees being screamed at by players, managers and fans from the PL all the way down to youth football improves the quality of refereeing decisions? Do you think that competent, skilled people will want to continue being referees if they're subjected to this kind of behavior?
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How is questioning someone for making a wrong decision bullying them?

So a ref can make a horrible call that may change the outcome of a game ( or even a season), cost players their spot in the team, heck in some cases even managers their jobs, but no one should shout at the ref because they might feel bad about subjected to this behavior?

Jeez no wonder we have so many incompetent refs running around these days. Imagine a player having bad game after bad game and the manager and his teammates being forbidden from angrily shouting at him because he might "feel bad".
 
TMDaines said:
Not a bad thing at all. Will help build a bit of a siege mentality with the dressing room.

I have been crying out for our players to fight decisions for ages. De Gea and Maguire particularly have long been far too mopey at accepting setbacks in our own box and not screaming blue murder for potential soft fouls.
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I agree. There's no point being top of the fair play league as that's not the game. It's all part of the dark arts and the collective hunger to win. But for my money they had better done that when Sancho was chopped down inside the box. Was absolute stone waller that. Don't mind the decision to disallow Ronnie's goal too much given they played to the whistle.
 
King7Eric said:
How is questioning someone for making a wrong decision bullying them?

So a ref can make a horrible call that may change the outcome of a game ( or even a season), cost players their spot in the team, heck in some cases even managers their jobs, but no one should shout at the ref because they might feel bad about subjected to this behavior?

Jeez no wonder we have so many incompetent refs running around these days. Imagine a player having bad game after bad game and the manager and his teammates being forbidden from angrily shouting at him because he might "feel bad".
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The specific situation being talked about here is Manchester United players crowding the referee and trying to influence his decision after Ronaldo stole the ball in a dead ball situation and kicked it in the net. We'd all be furious if Almiron did what Ronaldo did and successfully convinced the referee to award a goal. Why don't you explain how that sort of behavior improves refereeing decisions? Are we just ignoring the fact that teams used to regularly crowd the referee trying to influence them into making the wrong decision?

Also if you don't see how people screaming at teenage referees in youth football, for example, disincentivizes them from continuing, and how that might affect the number and quality of referees at higher levels then I don't know what to tell you. Your argument is that actively making the job as awful and stressful as possible makes the decisions better, but it's been like that for decades and most people think the officiating is the worst it's ever been.
 
King7Eric said:
Why exactly can't we have that? High time players started taking a stand against blatantly terrible refereeing. The refs get away with murder and we have FA running respect campaigns.
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Because players always think they're right. They argue everything.
 
rimaldo said:
pc gone mad. can’t even crowd around the ref nowadays and threaten to petrol bomb his house with his kids inside. insane.

i had to give up watching my kids play when i wasn’t allowed to offer the ref out to the car park for a straightener after another questionable decision. like i told her at the time, just let the game flow and stop making it all about you. game’s gone.
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You have to take some responsibility, your kids weren't even playing in the match.
 
phelans shorts said:
I never actually disagreed with this view, but if you mess with the bull you’re going to get the horns from time to time. Just accept it when you do like we have here, it’s simple enough.
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Not necessarily specific to this situation, but I think it would be easier to accept these things if the actual decision was correct. Would also help if other clubs and managers were penalised when they were guilty too.
 
I have no problem with this being punished as long as it's done consistently. It obviously won't be though.
 
I can't recall but i need someone with clear memory to help, before the defender slow-motioned the ball back towards the Golie, had the referees whistle sounded?
 
I’m loving my life said:
The Saudi influence already taking hold. Ref bought off, and the press and others spinning the narrative that we have poor discipline, and so to punish us which will influence future decisions/games.
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They got him in the bag maybe a wrong choice of words.

For once I understood why Klopp was having a meltdown, Taylor was having a fecking laugh with the foul on Salah. The City player looked like a trailer connected to Salah's rear end.
 
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