Not all goals can be prevented with tackles though, sounds more like a positional problem as they got done on the counter. Only seen their first three goals and don't remember seeing any tackles that should have been made. They were positionally all over the place and Leicester just carved them apart.
Manchester City under Pep Guardiola | Pep on City v Liverpool ref: "He likes to be special"
- Thread starter Adisa
- Start date
Not all goals can be prevented with tackles though, sounds more like a positional problem as they got done on the counter. Only seen their first three goals and don't remember seeing any tackles that should have been made. They were positionally all over the place and Leicester just carved them apart.
Have you noticed how after every positive City performance, the Pepapologists/ hybrid Barca-City fans are out in full force gloating and praising their Lord and saviour Pepus Christ; yet after a result like today they are nowhere to be seen?
Well and truly exposed today, this league is a lot tougher than he anticipated. Funny how the media had practically handed them the title by the end of September, and now he "needs time".
Well and truly exposed today, this league is a lot tougher than he anticipated. Funny how the media had practically handed them the title by the end of September, and now he "needs time".
Yes but not being able to even get into position to make a tackle is basically the point that's being made ( as I understand it)
I'm not saying they were losing 50/50 balls or shirking challenges, it's just that earlier in the season they were pressing everytime their opposition had the ball but the few times Leicester had it they had yards of space to operate in.
This is why i said he'd be a no good managing us. City have a squad better equipped to play his style and even they struggle.
To be fair, as poor as they've been lately it is still relatively early in the season and they're far from out of the title race yet. It's perfectly possible (and arguably likely) they'll hit some excellent form later in the season again and if they do they'll be in contention.
No doubt that Guardiola needs to drastically improve them at the back though if they want to be title winners: defensively weak teams tend not to win the league unless they're absolutely brilliant in attack. At their current rate they're on track to concede 40-45 goals this season and considering they've got numerous strong challengers it's hard to see them winning the league with that.
No they don't.
Considering our squad played a style similar to Peps in the last two seasons he would have had a better chance with us.
City have crap fullbacks and centre backs. Their CM options are nothing to shout about and the same can be said in the wide areas.
if anything it does prove the point about the spine of the team, doesn't it? There are also question marks raised over Luis Enrique as well
Am I the only who thinks Bravo should be saving that Andy King shot?
This is what happens when an opposition team rips your defence to shreds because you don't bother to account for counter attacks, and then after the game you blame it on bad luck instead of thinking maybe you should do something to stop it happening again.
I guess he meant to say that he doesn't focus specifically on tackling during training, and not that tackling is pointless.
Do you have a link for this by any chance?
I agree. United's defence and midfield is more suited to Pep's style. Ironically, the same can be said for City's defence+ midfield and Mourinho.
Just shows how poor the long-term planning is at both clubs. City had been after Pep for years, yet only three players suited to play his way (KdB, Silva, Sterling; four if we count Kompany) were present in the squad when he arrived.
City's squad is so old. Silva is 30, Fernandinho is 31, Kolarov is 31, Zabaleta is 31, Bravo is 33, Kompany is 30. All these guys are starters assuming that everyone is fit.
As someone who's just turned 31 this thread hasn't been good for my confidence.
To be successful on this league, your defenders must be good at defending. Once Pep learns this things will get interesting.
What a result!
I expected him to be a little more perceptive to the change in circumstances and quality of his time in this stint at City. When I saw them line up with three at the back pushing right up the pitch, given their recent form, I thought they could be in trouble. He's clearly got substandard defenders. He needs to start prioritizing the defence and giving the team some extra protection there. When they bgan the season they rode the new manager bump and got away with starting a team full of attackers but once the cracks in defence have begun to show, Pep needs to adapt to his new scenario. If he wanted to remain stubborn he should have signed better defenders.
This.
I expected him to be a little more perceptive to the change in circumstances and quality of his time in this stint at City. When I saw them line up with three at the back pushing right up the pitch, given their recent form, I thought they could be in trouble. He's clearly got substandard defenders. He needs to start prioritizing the defence and giving the team some extra protection there. When they bgan the season they rode the new manager bump and got away with starting a team full of attackers but once the cracks in defence have begun to show, Pep needs to adapt to his new scenario. If he wanted to remain stubborn he should have signed better defenders.
If he went at it with his top hand he probably would've kept it out
After watching yesterday's game, one could feel that Pep doesn't scout the opposition. You play to your strengths but know what the opposition is good at and tweak your game accordingly. Watching City, anyone would say, they didn't care how Leicester would play and were deservedly routed
Guardiola's caught up in a dilemma: he isn't willing to give up his philosophy but lacks the squad to implement it successfully. If he chooses a more pragmatic approach in order to win silverware or make the top 4, then he will start next season from skratch and that's not only unispiring but would make all his efforts so far pointless. But if he persists with his philosophy, then the danger to drop out of the top 4 becomes pretty real and that would be hard to swallow. It is too early for firm conclusions though. If Gabriel Jesus hits the ground running and Aguero regains form, they may have a good second half of the season.
The squad is oldish though. Bar KDB, the key figures are declining. Kompany and Toure are finished, Silva doesn't look sharp and may never regain his form from 1-2 seasons ago and Aguero lost some pace and explosivity even though he is still top quality in and around the penalty box. But his daft red cards cost them big time. I can see them being very busy in the next transfer windows.
The squad is oldish though. Bar KDB, the key figures are declining. Kompany and Toure are finished, Silva doesn't look sharp and may never regain his form from 1-2 seasons ago and Aguero lost some pace and explosivity even though he is still top quality in and around the penalty box. But his daft red cards cost them big time. I can see them being very busy in the next transfer windows.
Tackle usually refers to sliding tackle. That's what Maldini was referring to. In Italy and Spain, defenders are taught NOT to do it. It's strictly supposed to be a last resort kind of thing. And you can bet Maldini never trained in it. In fact, i don't think anybody ever trained in it. What's the point? It's not something players need to practice
Maldini didn't and i don't think Rio did either. I don't think it's a trainable skill, really. Or a skill at all.
And people here are looking at the tackle quote the wrong way. In pep's system, if a player needs to make a tackle it means something went wrong. Ideally, if his team makes no tackles, that should mean they played well and didn't concede anything. The lack of tackling in this game should worry him, because it means his team played with no hunger, urgency, call it whatever you want. Basically, they either have no balls, or they don't care. Either case if i were the manager of that lot i'd be very worried
Just read this somewhere:
Hope we are able to knock them out of the top 4 this season
Hope we are able to knock them out of the top 4 this season
How are you supposed to get the ball from someone running at you without tackling them?
You should have intercepted the ball before it got to that player. Apparently.
If Pep isn't interested in tackling then he's not going to be winning the Premiership title no matter how long he stays at City.
Have Stevie Me made a speech about not slipping.
He will come good. Just another £300m and he will come good. The genius will be there for all to see.
I hope they do 'reverse Leicester' in the sense that people will keep dismissing their form by saying 'its still to early to judge' while they actually get worse and worse as the season goes.
You meant "having better players than your opponents" philosophy?
This I don't get. Does Guardiola actually have a style? He has been playing with a different lineup and starting XI every week, I know he tinkered a lot at Bayern too but I don't recall it being that bad. City would probably be playing a lot better if Guardiola put some stability in the team.
See. that changes everything. I dont think of a tackle as a sliding tackle, I think of sliding tackle as a type of tackle. You can tackle when youre on your feet.
If this is a 'lost in translation' area, that makes more sense.
I do agree sliding tackle is last resort however.
Same can be said for JM
Seems to me there has been way too much changing of formation and playing players out of position. Far too disjointed ATM, long may it continue.
Why bring Mourinho into it? Second time it's happened.
This. They haven't got a proper centre half in their squad with Kompany rarely 100% fit - if ever. They started the season at breakneck speed, looking like they could outscore any team even if they leaked a goal or two. Watching the game against Leicester I do wonder how many of the players that played yesterday will survive the next couple of transfer windows, the quoted post is on the money about a few of their main men on the slide. Their back 3 last night - 2 fullbacks that are better going forward than defending and a CB that takes risks and can't do basic defending, with a keeper behind them who is mediocre at best. Allied to the fact that De Bruyne, Gundogan and Silva were largely anonymous, in some ways they got off a bit lightly only losing 4-2.
Even if they beat Watford, a defeat in the Arsenal game will be another huge blow for Pep. He must be worried.
Even if they beat Watford, a defeat in the Arsenal game will be another huge blow for Pep. He must be worried.
I'm trying to get my head round the definition of tackling. Did he not think that Pique and Puyol tackled people? I guess he's talking about what midfielders do. But given they had a standard instruction of fast pressing and a strict definition of how long you do it for, maybe he just means his teams don't chase the ball around but still have 80% possession.
In maldini's case, it is. In italian, we use two separate terms for sliding and standing tackles. Neither is something people can practice either way, though
Last season if you'd asked me I would have been torn between Jose and Pep for United manager but now watching Pep's team I'm starting to wonder if he would have been a disaster, at least on the scale of LVG (i.e. Limited success and pissed off fans/players)
United's tradition and style mean we either get a manager who is willing to adapt (i.e. Jose) or someone who plays similar to our traditions (Klopp, Pochettino) not someone who will unrelentingly try and instil their own completely different style while also trying to somehow avoid bad results.
Ed Woodward and the United hierarchy deserve much more criticism for employing LVG in the first place if their goal wasn't to actually change us long term to a possession based outfit (which the subsequent appointment of Jose suggests it wasn't)
Anyway - definitely shades of LVG in Pep's unrelenting ideology, arrogance and slight wierdness.
United's tradition and style mean we either get a manager who is willing to adapt (i.e. Jose) or someone who plays similar to our traditions (Klopp, Pochettino) not someone who will unrelentingly try and instil their own completely different style while also trying to somehow avoid bad results.
Ed Woodward and the United hierarchy deserve much more criticism for employing LVG in the first place if their goal wasn't to actually change us long term to a possession based outfit (which the subsequent appointment of Jose suggests it wasn't)
Anyway - definitely shades of LVG in Pep's unrelenting ideology, arrogance and slight wierdness.
He was too rattled to consider the question and give a real answer
Pep is superb but as said I think the tools he worked with were ready made. I suspect Pep under estimated how competitive this league is but equally how good city were. Great team no doubt but no where near ready for the Pep way.
It looks like some have realised he won't change his approach, so we are seeing alot more blaming him at the moment.
Like this from their forum I posted in the meltdown thread yesterday:
One of the worst defensive performances be seen from a big team.
The number of times Leciester outnumbered them on the counter was incredible.
The number of times Leciester outnumbered them on the counter was incredible.
It's a bit like the Messi-Ronaldo thing.