Managers Draft - Raees vs Joga Bonito

[Annahnomoss]

Rael Madrid [3-4-3)

Playing style…

1. Press high

2. Stretch the play, hit crosses in and allow for late midfield runs

3. This will allow space for Laudrup to dominate the number 10 area, he will have acres of space to work with. Laudrup will stay on Beckbauer to a point and then pass his duties on to his midfield players.

4. 7 players defend, 3 attackers stay up.. when haven’t got the ball

5. 4 players stay back, 6 attack... when got the ball.

My weaknesses:

Defense: It isn’t the greatest defence in the draft… yes I have two Real legends in Sanchis and Chendo, but being honest they’re not Baresi and Maldini level defenders. Considering what I’m up against though, I think they’re more than upto it. Sanchis is considered an all-round wrecking ball of a defender and is a match for any type of striker and Chendo man-marked Maradona out of a game.. and Helguera is an excellent Costacurta type defender. No frills, unassuming and reliable.. perfect for an attacking side which needs some cool-headed positionally sound defenders to keep it together at the back. I do think it will concede goals, it’ll concede goals against most sides in the draft but who is going to keep a clean sheet vs me? not many I’d wager. I’m also exposed from wide positons due to lack of full-backs, but I have two amazing b2b’s helping out Makalele to cover this wide positions if need be.


High line: Due to the attacking nature of my side, and my b2b midfielders in Seedorf/Enrique, I will be pressing from the front. So there will be gaps in behind me and like I said, I imagine some goals being conceded.. but I do have three defenders who are accustomed to playing in attacking lineups and not getting much protection ala Terry at Chelsea. Therefore I don’t see it being a major issue here.. also Makalele, L. Enrique and peak Seedorf? That is an engine room and a half.. plus they’re tactically disciplined, I don’t see them allowing players to get their heads up and play pin point passes in behind my defence time and time again.


Berti Vogts: This is a guy that man-marked Cruyff out of a game, so the chances of him being able to deal with Figo seem pretty high 1 v 1. That said, Laudrup can drift out to the left.. Ronaldo can do so too,. Overloads can be created so as to ensure Vogts is kept busy and doesn’t fully focus his attention on Figo.. also I’d argue Figo is a physically stronger player than a Cruyff and incredibly difficult to kick out of a game. He is an incredibly muscular presence and I still see him being a key figure in this game.


My opponent’s strengths

Beckenbauer, Schuster, Bonhof: That is some incredible German muscle, they love to drive with the ball and are comfortable attacking/defending. I think his midfield is superior to mine but I think with Laudrup in front of the other three, we can outnumber these lot and limit their effectiveness to some degree.

His defence: his backline is rock solid.. but Beckenbauer can’t help but charge out of defence and any defender in history would struggle against Ronaldo even the 2002+ version. This is a guy who destroyed Ferdinand, got the golden boot, scored in CL semi v a strong Juve defence that contained Ciro Ferrera, Thuram, Zambrotta and Tudor. He got injured, as did Makalele and they lost away from home.


Full-backs: I love his full backs, incredibly complete and Brehme is top top class, best full back of the 80’s. I’ve got Michel covering him back if need be and also running in behind him if he ventures too far. Michel wasn’t just the Spanish Becks, he was a genuine goal threat in his own right and someone you can’t afford to leave unmarked.


My strengths

Purposeful possession/High tempo: My team is very direct on the ball and I don't mean long ball. I have purposeful passers in midfield, guys who can take men on and find forwards easily and in Laudrup, Ronaldo, Figo.. guys who can create out of nothing and keep the game moving forward. I believe the tempo will be too much for this German team.. I've seen plenty of vids of Schuster/Beckenbauer and whilst they are generals, I think they liked the game at their own pace.. they won't be afforded that comfort in this game. My team will press from the front and try to rip them to shreds time and time again. Another thing is that Beckenbauer strength is more in possession than out, he was capable of making sloppy tackles if left stranded and definitely wasn't a top defender in the mould of a Nesta. That is the level of defender needed to even try and keep tabs on a Ronaldo.

Pace/Energy: I have some very quick players in my side, the entire side is pretty quick aside from Helguera/Makalele. This isn’t a side from a bygone era, it is physically robust especially the midfield and all my attackers can ride tackles and hold their own against tough marking.

Dribbling ability and Flair: I will go into more detail below, but the thought of three out and out speedy tricksy dribblers such as Figo, Ronaldo and Laudrup in the same side is mouth-watering. They are masters of ball manipulation and leaving top class defenders for dead.

Laudrup/Ronaldo combo: Is there a more youtubable pair in the draft? It is a dream number 10/9 combination. Zamorano became pichichi due to his assists, now he’s paired with Ronaldo the phenom.. that is pure sex on legs, even if Baresi and Rijkaard were up against them, you’d be saying what a match up because it literally takes a DM/CB partnership of that combo to keep these two quiet. In this match, my opponent doesn’t really have a Makalele type DM and I guarantee it’ll be Ronaldo v Scwarzenbach. Ronaldo will have free licence to drift out to the left as well as get in behind.

Wingers: Michel and Figo.. again I put it to you.. in this draft, there are not many out and out wingers in any team, let alone a pairing of this class. They’re incredibly complete wingers and not the types who get kicked out a game, they’re always involved and massive goal threats themselves. Michel is also ridiculously suave looking – admit it.

L. Enrique: His late runs could be key in this game, he is brilliant in the air and a clever late run could be decisive ...3-4 to Real!! I can imagine him getting on the end of a Michel cross. He will also be an excellent full back out of possession.

Makalele: The most reliable DM in the draft in terms of defensive duties, he has two quality enforcers in front of him to do his bidding and he will be doing his best to keep it altogether at the back. The spine of Sanchis, Makalele, Seedorf, Laudrup, Ronaldo… is beastly


---------------------------------------Raaes------------------------------------------------------------------Joga Bonito

vs

My team pays homage to the great Bayern and Gladbach sides of the 70s, arguably the best club sides to ever grace the Bundesliga.

DEFENSE

The cat-like Joker in ridiculous shorts, SEPP MAIER stars in between the posts, he was one of the best keepers ever and a reliable presence at the back, so long as a duck doesn't make it's way onto the field ! On the right, you have Der Terrier BERTI VOGTS who for me was one of the greatest defensive full-backs ever, arguably even better than the likes of Maldini and Thuram from a purely defensive perspective. Amongst the greatest man-markers the game has ever seen.


FRANZ BECKENBAUER and GEORG SCHWARZENBACK resume their legendary partnership once again. Der Kaiser being the orchestrator from the back whilst being the commanding resolute defensive presence that he was. If he gets bored of defending, he will take a stroll forward, ghosting past 6 players and play a defense-splitting pass or finish the move off himself. Doing all this in the confidence that he had the reliable rock at the back, Schwarzenback doing the work of a two and 'cleaning' up for Der Kaiser.


Completing the WC winning rock solid back-line is ANDREAS BREHME, the only player not from the 70s, who adds a bit of verve and flair to my defense. Unbelievably complete as a player, he was a real attacking threat down the left flank whilst being able to boss it defensively as well and occasionally cutting in and unleashing shots with his fearsome right foot.

 

[Annahnomoss]

MIDFIELD

RAINER BONHOF was an incredibly versatile and a great defensive player who was at times tasked with marking Muller out of the game, when they squared up in the Bundesliga. He was a great box-to-box midfielder who could also contribute offensively with his long-range shots (Liverpool keeper Ray Clemence once ducked underneath to avoid a fierce long-shot from Bonhof and let it go into the goal uncontested ), engine and his passing ability. Bonhof assisted Muller for his WC final goal and made 4 assists in the semi-final and final of the Euro 96. Johan Neeskens even had to tail Bonhof in the WC final game in an effort to reduce his impact on the game which he ultimately failed to.


The criminally underrated HERBERT 'Hacki' WIMMER adds some iron lungs to my midfield. This guy could run and run and run. Don't take my word for it, he has had 4 hip operations due to his non-stop tireless running throughout his glorious career. Known for being the water-carrier to the legendary Gunter Netzer, Wimmer was a complete and a versatile player who could play in defense, midfield and attack. He was defensively solid enough to play as a holding midfielder, had the engine and graft to play as a box-to-box and had the verve, crossing and dribbling ability to play as a wing-forward. Terrific gem of a player.


BERND SCHUSTER completes my complete midfield trio. Schuster at his prime was just a glorious force to behold. He was a supremely talented midfield general, capable of bossing games single-handedly. Germany's most talented German playmaker since Gunter Netzer, Der Blonde Engel was one of the best players of the 80s and someone you could build your team around, not that he needed it to flourish. Just watch his sensational performance against Netherlands in EURO 1980.


Attack

ULI HOENEß was a great player who had his career cruelly cut short at 23 due to an injury. He was on his way to becoming a German great and had already achieved things few could dream about at such an early age. As a player he was versatile and complete. He had searing pace, great ball control, work-rate, dribbling, vision and goalscoring ability. Everything you would want from a wing-forward/wide midfielder. He forged a great partnership with Muller and was a key component of the great Bayern side in the 70s. Most forwards playing alongside Muller absolutely struggled to hit double figures with Der Bomber being the chief goalscoring threat. Not Hoeness, he managed to score 48 goals in 102 matches in the 3 seasons in which they won the Bundesliga on the trot. That is extremely impressive given that he had to play both as a midfielder and a wide forward at times with Muller being the focal point.


On the left flank there is HENNING JENSEN, the pacey wide-forward who dove-tailed beautifully with fellow Dane Simonsen for Gladbach in the mid 70s. He had goals in him and was a good all-round pacey forward who was an important player for Gladbach. He moved on to Real after a great spell with Gladbach before winning 2 league trophies at Real and then finishing his career at Ajax.


JUPP HEYNCKES was just an unlucky bugger. He was born in the era of Gerd Muller which is never a good thing for any forward worth his salt. He was mostly outshone by Muller in the Bundesliga and was shunted out left to accommodate Muller in the German team. Heynckes was nonetheless a top notch striker who at his peak went toe to toe with Muller and even finished ahead of him in the goal scoring stakes once or twice. He was a goal-scoring machine who is the third ever top scorer in the Bundesliga charts after Muller and Fischer, scoring 168 goals in 226 games, at an average of a ridiculous 0.74 goals per game. He is going to thrive on service from the likes of Schuster, Beckenbauer, Wimmer and Hoeness.

SUB: ANDREAS MOLLER - No, the whining is not going to get you in the team now Andi


Tactical Set-Up

Playing Style

My team isn't a purely possession-based football team or a counter-attacking one. It is capable of mixing it up depending on it's opponents. You can see the likes of Beckenbauer and Schuster dictating play or Hoeness and Jensen being deadly on the counter depending on the scenario. Against the Galacticos it makes more sense to play counter-attacking football with the top-heavy set up of my opponent, their relatively weaker defense, my pacy forward line and my great defensive midfielders and defense.


I'm of the assumption that Raees will line up with a diamond of Makelele-Figo-Seedorf-Laudrup with a front duo of Zamarano-Ronaldo. Personally can't see him playing Michel in a 4-2-3-1 ahead of Zamarano. My main concern in this match is the Laudrup-Zamarano-Ronaldo trio who pose the biggest threat to me. Ideally I need to limit Laudrup as he is the main component who makes everything click together.


Defensive Line

I would have ideally played a high line against his team. They lack genuine pace up front with the exception of Ronaldo who still had a great burst but in shorter distances but couldn't sustain it over a longer distances. He didn't have the ability to drive through the heart of a defense from the half-way line that he initially had at Barca. However, I don't have the central defenders who were pacey/athletic enough to achieve this and thus have to settle for a deeper defensive line. It would be dangerous to cede the initiative to a team possessing the likes of Laudrup, Zamarano, Figo and Ronaldo but I have a fantastic defense and specific plans to deal with those buggers. I also have the pacey Jensen and speed demon Hoeness who can utilize their pace fully on the counter against a higher line defensive line.


Key points

-Berti Vogts is going to be man-marking Laudrup, similar to the way he managed to mark Cruyff out of a WC game and stifle the likes of Gerd Muller and Kevin Keegan. Laudrup is the key to his team and you can see most of the football flowing through him. Cutting off/limiting the supply line is going to affect Ronaldo and Zamarano heavily here.


-He has the defensive Chendo on the right flank who won't be able to contribute much offensively whilst struggling to contain the brilliant Brehme-Jensen duo. The legendary Brehme was a brilliant attacking wing-back who also has the Dane Jensen for support here, not that he would need it. Think Raees would have been better served going with Salgado instead.


-On the left flank he has Luis Enrique who was a great player but he has to deal with Hoeness here. Hoeness would be more than able to track his runs and also provide a genuine counter-attacking threat if Enrique ventures forward. The further Luis Enrique is forward, the more area Hoeness has behind him to show his blistering pace. Hoeness was able to do 100m in 11 seconds mind you.


-Without too much of a threat from the wings, you can see play getting congested in the middle for him. Ronaldo-Zamarano have Beckenbauer-Schwarzenback to contend with. Zamarano was a terrific forward who was physical and capable of conjuring a magical goal out of nothing. However, he has anequally great physical stopper in Schwarzenback dealing with him which would limit his threat. Beckenbauer also squares up against Ronaldo and lets not forget that Beckenbauer was first and foremost a terrific defender and then a rampaging attacker. I will take my chances against El Fenomeno with Der Kaiser facing him. Keep in mind that this is not the peak Ronaldo and these 2 forwards aren't going to receive the best of service from Laudrup, with Vogts yapping at his heels.


-Raees has a great midfield trio but I would have to say my midfield trio would be more than able to cope with his due to their brilliant defensive qualities and sheer industry. I think Bonhof and Wimmer were more than good enough defensively to square up against Seedorf and Figo who are great players themselves. Bonhof and Wimmer also have the extra bit of industry to defend, win the ball and then contribute offensively by driving forward when needed. Even my chief playmaker Schuster has one heck of an engine on him and can contribute actively to the defensive phase of the game.


-My forward trio have standard jobs here. Heynckes to be the goal-scoring focal point of my attack. Jensen and Hoeness to provide a bit of ingenuity and creativity in the final third, whilst providing counter-attacking threat with their pace. Hoeness has the additional duty of tracking back Luis Enrique, something which he is capable of, all while providing a bit of a goal-scoring threat in the final third on the counter.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Figo left & Seedorf right?

 

[Joga Bonito]

Hmmm, really wasn't expecting you to go with Figo and Michel as I have two fantastic world-class full backs, expected you to go with a diamond.




I change my tactics to this, with slight changes like Vogts on Figo and Bonhof dealing with Laudrup.

Could you spoiler the key points please, @Annahnomoss . It's mostly redundant anyway, since he isn't playing a diamond

 

[Balu]

It's mostly redundant anyway, since he isn't playing a diamond

He's still playing a diamond.

 

[Raees]

Figo left & Seedorf right?

I had to because I wanted Michel tracking Brehme's runs as well as his brilliant 'banana' crossing.. he's not as adaptable on the left uniike Figo whose a beast either flank. Seedorf right as I need defensive cover in that left back position from Enrique, it is foreseeable at times that I may find myself with a back four depending on how the other team is attacking me.. Seedorf can also exploit that position in behind Brehme and overlap Michel if need be, he has more attacking freedom than Enrique who has to be diligent defensively to a higher degree.

Chendo - Sanchis - Helguera - Enrique
Seedorf - Makalele
​

I could have gone Figo right and Seedorf left which heightens my attacking threat a tad, but I'd be left unbalanced defensively. This way I have work rate and sound positioning on either flank if I get countered.

@Annahnomoss @Edgar Allan Pillow - could you guys post my player profiles?

Player profiles

Spoiler: Defence

Iligner

On September 23, 1987, Illgner made his debut for the West Germany national football team in a 1-0 friendly home win against Denmark, and went on to back Eike Immel during Euro 88.

At the 1990 FIFA World Cup, Illgner, by now national side first-choice, was in exceptional form, and superbly commanded the backline, which then consisted of the experienced Klaus Augenthaler, Andreas Brehme, Thomas Berthold, Guido Buchwald and Jürgen Kohler (with Matthias Sammer taking Augenthaler's place at Euro 1992). Illgner was almost unbeatable in a 1-on-1 situation and handled crosses extremely well.

In the semifinal, Illgner saved a Stuart Pearce shot in the penalty shootout against England, and West Germany would overcome Argentina in the deciding game, where he would keep a clean sheet (1-0).

Overall, Illgner appeared 54 times for his country, and also played at the 1994 World Cup, not being recalled again after the quarterfinal loss against Bulgaria, although he was only 27.

Individual
German Goalkeeper of the Year (1989, 1990, 1991, 1992)
European Goalkeeper of the Year (1991)


Chendo

Chendo stood out for his hard work and commitment. His only professional team was Real Madrid and he also earned 26 caps for Spain. One of his greatest moments for the Whites came in a European Cup game against Napoli in 1987 when he marked Maradona out of the game and even dummied the great Argentinian at one point of a historic game.

His career at Real Madrid was a long and brilliant one which started in the youth teams. He made his full team debut at 23 in a team trained by Di Stéfano which finished the season as runner-up in La Liga, the Spanish Cup, the Spanish League Cup, the Spanish Super Cup and the UEFA Cup Winner’s Cup. In the following season, Chendo won the first of his seven league titles, the Spanish Cup, the Spanish Super Cup and the UEFA Cup. He finished his career in style by winning the European Cup (‘La Séptima’ or the “The Seventh” ).

He spent 16 seasons at the club and retired in 1998 having played hundreds of games for the Whites. In his farewell match, Chendo showed his gratitude: "I’m leaving feeling really happy to have fulfilled the dream of every kid: playing for Real Madrid for years and finishing my career at this great club. What more could you ask for?” Since he hung up his boots, he has been the match day delegate for the first team.


Sanchis

He stood out for his calmness, restraint in defence, placement and great agility. He was a centre back that set a new standard within the Whites due to his quality as a footballer and his excellent professionalism. He was part of a generation of players that marked an era in Spanish football.

Manolo Sanchís had Real Madrid very nearby ever since childhood. Seeing hisfather play with the white shirt he learned how to enjoy this sport. At the age of 12 he tried out for the youth teams, and soon after he formed part of ‘La Fábrica’, as the youth teams are known. After putting his brilliant skills on show with the Under-14s and Under-19s, he was promoted to Castilla, the first team’s reserve side. Under the coaching of Amancio they were promoted to the Second Division. It was the team of the ‘Quinta del Buitre’.

With Di Stefano as the coach Sanchís made his debut with the first team together with Martin Vazquez. In 1986 the Madrid-born centre back won his first La Liga title, the first of five consecutive titles. Five years during which the team astonished throughout the continent. That generation of players however left some unfinished work, they failed to win the European Cup.

The dream was eventually realised in 1998. Mijatovic’s goal broke the 32-year drought since the club’s last major European title. Two years later they would win again. Manolo retired from football lifting his second European Cup title and Real Madrid’s Eighth. Sanchís retired in the best way possible: entering into Real Madrid’s history books.


Helguera

His magnificent ball control, clinical tackling and strength in the air made him one of the best central defenders in European football, and withFernando Hierro he formed a perfect central defensive duo that led Madrid back to the top of European football.

Although he is a Cantabrian by birth, he started to show promise as a footballer playing for Albacete, where he was trained by Mariano García Remón. His impressive performances in the Spanish Second Division led to his signing for Roma, and in Italy he gained the top flight experience he needed alongside world class players such as Totti. His next step was Espanyol and this was the perfect springboard for Real Madrid.

After an excellent season with Espanyol he was signed by Real Madrid where he immediately became a first team regular, and his composure at the back was the hallmark of his eight seasons with the Whites in which he won nine trophies including two European Cups.

Helguera also starred for Spain and earned a total of 47 caps. He made his international debut against Italy (2-2) and played in the European Championships in 2000 and 2004 and the World Cup in 2002.

 

[Balu]

@Annahnomoss
you really should include the manager names in the poll - options.

- Raees (Vincent del Bosque)
- Joga Bonito (Udo Lattek)

should be the two options. Del Bosque isn't mentioned once at all in the whole op, which makes it kinda difficult for anyone to judge the players' peak unless they followed the whole draft thread.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Who does both teams have on the bench?

 

[Joga Bonito]

He's still playing a diamond.

Yup, phrased that wrong. I meant most of points there becomes redundant as there is no Zamarano and Vogts has Figo to deal with now.

 

[Joga Bonito]

Once again, the key for me here is limiting Laudrup's effectiveness and he gets special attention from Rainer Bonhof, a WC winner who was regularly tasked with marking Gerd Muller out of the game, in the Bundesliga when Gladbach and Bayern faced off. Cut/limit Laudrup and his entire forward line suffers. I'm not saying Bonhof is going to completely take Laudrup out of the game, but it is going to be considerably harder for him.

He does have an extra man in midfield but I have Hoeness who is more than capable of tucking in when required and I can see Hoeness pulling Enrique towards the right flank. Hoeness was a really speedy player, capable of doing 100m in 11s and I can see him flourishing against a high line in a relatively unmanned right flank. Jensen on the other flank was really pacey too. One of the prime reasons he is ahead of Moller here as my team could use some pace and presence down the flanks against a high defensive line. Hoeness and Jensen are going to be constant thorns in his defense.

Can't see Figo and Michel getting too much joy against Vogts and Brehme here tbh.

Think he has a fantastic midfield trio in Seedorf-Enrique-Makelele with Laudrup as the creative No 10. However, Enrique and Seedorf's presence/help in going to be needed on the flanks whereas my midfield trio can more or less(relatively) focus on the midfield battle.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

I could have gone Figo right and Seedorf left which heightens my attacking threat a tad, but I'd be left unbalanced defensively. This way I have work rate and sound positioning on either flank if I get countered.

I think you should have gone for your players strengths. Chendo > Michel > Figo > Ronaldo is one devastating attack. Just tuck in the other wing and defend.

And only Annah can edit the OP to add player profiles.

 

[Joga Bonito]

Who does both teams have on the bench?

It's Zamarano for him and Andreas Moller for me.

EDIT: Good luck to you Raees. May the best team win

 

[Theon]

Two nice teams, lots to like about each of them.

@Annahnomoss
you really should include the manager names in the poll - options.

- Raees (Vincent del Bosque)
- Joga Bonito (Udo Lattek)

should be the two options. Del Bosque isn't mentioned once at all in the whole op, which makes it kinda difficult for anyone to judge the players' peak unless they followed the whole draft thread.

Aye, it's kind of the whole point to the draft.

 

[Raees]

I think you should have gone for your players strengths. Chendo > Michel > Figo > Ronaldo is one devastating attack. Just tuck in the other wing and defend.

@Joga Bonito - best of luck mate.

I think with the nature of my attackers bar Michel, there is so much inter-changing that can happen here.. Figo, Laudrup and Ronaldo can take on players from anywhere on the pitch and cause danger. So they might be slightly out of position but Laudrup and Ronaldo are in their best positions.







The key with Ronaldo here is that he might not be 1996 Ronaldo, but he is a muscular presence who'd be the best striker even now. He is still nimble, possesses great footwork.. has developed his goalscoring instincts and is super strong/quick.

Also I doubt Bonhof can keep control of Laudrup in such a talented team that can stretch the play...

• Romário: "The best player I have ever played with and the 4th best in the history of the game"
• Raúl: "The best I have ever played with.
• Zamorano: "Un genio!", "The reason why I make so many goals, is Laudrup."
• Iniesta: "Who is the best player in history? Laudrup."
• Messi: "I fully understand why he is considered one of the best players in Barcelona's history and even the world."
• Cruyff: "One of the most difficult players I have worked with. When he gives 80–90% he is still by far the best, but I want 100%, and he rarely does that."
• Cruyff (After Real Madrid with Laudrup had won 5–0 over Cruyff's Barcelona): "When Michael plays like a dream, a magic illusion, determined to show his new team his extreme abilities, no one in the world comes anywhere near his level
• Guardiola: "The best player in the world, I can't believe he hasn't won the title as best player."[citation needed]
• Beckenbauer: "Pelé was the best in the 60s, Cruyff in the 70s, Maradona in the 80s and Laudrup in the 90s."
• Roberto Galia: "I have played against Maradona, Platini and Baggio. But the player I saw do the most indescribable things was Michael Laudrup."
• Clemente: "To me, Michael Laudrup is the most genius player the world has ever seen. He will always be my numero uno. Always."
• Bakero: "No one has given the club [Barcelona] as much inspiration as Michael. We all look up to him. It is a privilege to have your day enriched by a genius."
• Koeman: "Michael was possibly the most skilful and elegant player I ever played with. Few could dribble like he could. He could sense when a game was ready to be seized and transformed by a moment of individual brilliance."
• Stoichkov: "One of the best European players I’ve ever seen. An elegant, old-fashioned playmaker, he did things few other footballers could do."
• Stoichkov: "From more than hundred goals that I scored I'm sure that over 50 were assisted by Michael. To play with him was extremely easy. We found each other by intuition on the field and found common football language. Look at Ivan Zamorano. Laudrup went there (Real) and Zamorano is a goalscorer. Sometimes I envy Ivan for the passes he receives. Passes on foot after you accelerated. Few people understand football like the Danish player. He can only be comprised with Maradona
• Capello (After the 4–0 win of Milan against Barcelona in the 1994 CL final): "Laudrup was the guy I feared but Cruyff left him out, and that was his mistake."[
• Figo: "I think maybe Laudrup was the best player I ever played against."
• Mourinho: "He was phenomenal in Barcelona. He was a fantastic player whom I would love to have on my team today."

 

[Joga Bonito]

Another thing is that Beckenbauer strength is more in possession than out, he was capable of making sloppy tackles if left stranded and definitely wasn't a top defender in the mould of a Nesta. That is the level of defender needed to even try and keep tabs on a Ronaldo.

Come on

In this match, my opponent doesn’t really have a Makalele type DM and I guarantee it’ll be Ronaldo v Scwarzenbach. Ronaldo will have free licence to drift out to the left as well as get in behind.

You are doing Bonhof a great disservice here mate. He was capable of playing as wing-backs on both flanks, just about anywhere in the midfield from a DM to a wide box-to-box role, and even played as a centre-back to neutralize Gerd Muller at times for Gladbach. He was that versatile and extremely solid defensively. Wimmer too was a great defensive player as well with plenty of industry and great defensive ability.

 

[Joga Bonito]

Spoiler: PROFILE : UDO LATTEK

Udo Lattek - One of the most successful coaches in the history of the game with an unparalleled legacy in German football. Lattek had brilliant man-management skills and was also a fine tactician as well, something he doesn't quite get enough credit for. After all he was the guy who pioneered his version of 'total football' at Bayern. Bayern didn't play flashy football with plenty of 'triangles' and technical footballers with sublime vision. Bayern played their own unique brand of fearsomely efficient football with plenty of versatile players like Roth, Durnberger, Kapellman, Zobel, Hoeness etc. Some of these players like Kapellman and Duernberger were able to play in def, mid and attack at a high level which was just incredible. Out of that midfield and attack everyone was capable of playing various roles and positions barring Muller who was rather limited but hey he was the best pure striker ever.

Their football ultimately might not have been pretty or flashy like Barca or Ajax but it was built on similar foundations such as teamwork, inter-changeability, cohesion, work-rate, efficiency, tactical intelligence and awareness. At their prime the Bayern side averaged 3 goals a game in the Bundesliga but they never quite got the plaudits they deserved for their football. Even Hoeness acknowledges it, ''We were never seen as on the same level as Ajax or Madrid because we didn't win those Cups playing beautiful football," Hoeness said last year, with a just a hint of regret.

On 1975, Udo Lattek went to the Bayern hierarchy and claimed an overhaul was needed to revitalise Bayern after a disastrous domestic campaign despite winning the club's first ever European Cup.

"I told the president Wilhelm Neudecker 'we need some changes'. 'That's right, you are sacked' he replied", Lattek recalls this episode.

Lattek moved onto rivals Gladbach were he had great success whilst Bayern floundered domestically albeit being successful in Europe. Lattek was ultimately proven right, both these sides had several star players who weren't getting any younger. Bayern - Beckenbauer, Schwarzenback, Muller, Maier, Roth etc. Gladbach - Wimmer, Heynckes, Vogts etc. However, the key difference was that Gladbach had the likes of Bonhof, Stielike, Simonsen, Del Kaye etc providing a solid base for the future. Bayern on the other hand lost Hoeness to injury and Breitner to Real with Rummenigge being the only great youth prospect. Bayern's transition suffered whilst Gladbach went on to enjoy domestic domination.

He went on to have undistinguished stints at Dortmund and Barcelona before returning to Bayern. He had great success winning 3 Bundesliga trophies on the trot once again!

He later went on to manage FC Koln and Schalke before having a 5 game stint where he remarkably saved Dortmund from relegation. Lattek managed to win 8 League trophies, 6 domestic trophies and 3 European trophies in a hugely successful career. To think he would have never gotten the Bayern hot-seat without Beckenbauer's recommendation, he was just a 35 year old with no coaching experience at club level at that time.

 

[antohan]

Both managers lose brownie points for mis-spelling player names.

 

[Skizzo]

Couple of great looking teams. I didn't think I would like a 343 but Raess actually pulled it off pretty damn well.

Joga's team was always going to look good and his defense came out even better than I thought it would.

Going to hold off for a while and see the tactics unfold.

 

[Balu]

Both managers lose brownie points for mis-spelling player names.

I corrected both Illgner and Schwarzenbeck in the draft thread. Thought they were honest mistakes, but it seems like both managers here struggle with those complicated German names, they again went with Iligner and Schwarzenback.

 

[antohan]

I was leaning towards Joga here but didn't get his tactical switch at all. I don't think personal details are an effective way to deal with Laudrup.

I thoroughly dislike Raees defensive setup but don't know Joga's forwards well enough to be 100% sure he is exploiting it. BTW, Lucho didn't play that role at all under del Bosque.

Car crash with some great forwards vs. a well-oiled machine that can bring about the desired result. Many of Raees players will be overrated while Joga's will be underrated, Schuster in particular was immense at the time. On that count, voting Joga.

 

[Raees]

Come on

See 5.33 in the video, one of the few pieces of defending he has to do in the video.



see 2.41 .. mistimes challenge and guy is straight through on goal, see 7.58... imagine a Michel cross and L. Enrique/Ronaldo on the end of that.

I would say those videos highlight that Beckenbauer was amazing in possession and defensively, he was outstanding at anticipating long balls, sweeping up over hit passes but heavily reliant on the defenders around him to deal with most difficult defensive situations. Get him 1 v 1 and he could be got at, I don't think he had a top notch standing tackle and could deal with say a Ronaldo 1 v 1... he wasn't that type of defender, he was a very unique attacking player who controlled games from deep and did the defending he had to do, extremely well. He's not a proper CB in my opinion.

 

[antohan]

I corrected both Illgner and Schwarzenbeck in the draft thread. Thought they were honest mistakes, but it seems like both managers here struggle with those complicated German names, they again went with Iligner and Schwarzenback.

And apparently MacManaman had Claude's babies.

 

[antohan]

I would say those videos highlight that Beckenbauer was amazing in possession and defensively, he was outstanding at anticipating long balls, sweeping up over hit passes but heavily reliant on the defenders around him to deal with most difficult defensive situations. Get him 1 v 1 and he could be got at, I don't think he had a top notch standing tackle and could deal with say a Ronaldo 1 v 1... he wasn't that type of defender, he was a very unique attacking player who controlled games from deep and did the defending he had to do, extremely well. He's not a proper CB in my opinion.

That's what Schwarzenbeck is there for.

 

[Balu]

And apparently MacManaman had Claude's babies.

Oh I missed that, beautiful.

 

[Raees]

That's what Schwarzenbeck is there for.

I know, but a Ronaldo v any CB is a potential mismatch in Ronaldo's favour even the 2002/03 version. The attackers I have, it is highly likely that Beckenbauer will be expected to perform alot of 1 v 1 defending, Netherlands had one all time dribbler in Cruyff.. I have three in my side, and that isn't even including Seedorf and Michel.



@Edgar Allan Pillow

Seedorf can be dangerous off either side if you look at this vid, go past halfway and he makes some good off the ball runs and scores playing from exactly the same position I have him now. He is a dangerous attacking presence in his own right and capable of being decisive.

That is the style I'm trying to emulate here.

 

[Balu]

I would say those videos highlight that Beckenbauer was amazing in possession and defensively, he was outstanding at anticipating long balls, sweeping up over hit passes but heavily reliant on the defenders around him to deal with most difficult defensive situations. Get him 1 v 1 and he could be got at, I don't think he had a top notch standing tackle and could deal with say a Ronaldo 1 v 1... he wasn't that type of defender, he was a very unique attacking player who controlled games from deep and did the defending he had to do, extremely well. He's not a proper CB in my opinion.

I know, but a Ronaldo v any CB is a mismatch in Ronaldo's favour even the 2002/03 version.

Sounds like you take Beckenbauer's qualities completely out of the equation here? The whole problem with defending against Ronaldo is that you really shouldn't rely on tackling or one on one defending at all. Beckenbauer anticipating the danger and preventing it from happening at all is clearly the best way to deal with Ronaldo. You'd want to minimise the number of times where an all time great striker gets into a dangerous position with the ball at his feet, at least I'd prefer that over hoping to have a brilliant tackler marking him and not fecking up one on one. I also disagree strongly with the notion that Beckenbauer can't play a disciplined role like you suggest in your write-up with the 'but Beckenbauer can’t help but charge out of defence' comment.

It really seems to be common these days to make it seem like a weakness if you have an alltime great defender who's also brilliant on the ball. We had the same with Scirea and Passarella in the last few weeks. It's silly in my opinion. What they can offer on the ball is an added bonus, not a weakness to exploit and against a top-heavy team with so much attacking threat, Beckenbauer certainly won't expose his defense by charging forward.

 

[VivaJanuzaj]

Laudrup behind Ronaldo

 

[Joga Bonito]

I was leaning towards Joga here but didn't get his tactical switch at all. I don't think personal details are an effective way to deal with Laudrup.

I thoroughly dislike Raees defensive setup but don't know Joga's forwards well enough to be 100% sure he is exploiting it. BTW, Lucho didn't play that role at all under del Bosque.

Car crash with some great forwards vs. a well-oiled machine that can bring about the desired result. Many of Raees players will be overrated while Joga's will be underrated, Schuster in particular was immense at the time. On that count, voting Joga.

Hoeness and Jensen will have a field day playing against a high line esp the rapid Hoeness who can do 100m in 11s. See Hoeness here playing a counter-attacking masterclass scoring 2 goals in the European Cup Final.

I can see the likes of Schwarzebeck (sorry for the mistake earlier on), Wimmer, Bonhof, Heynckes and Jensen being particularly under-rated here. I mean even my star players barring Beckenbauer, Brehme and Maier, like Schuster and Vogts never really got the recognition players of their ability should have.

 

[antohan]

Hoeness and Jensen will have a field day playing against a high line esp the rapid Hoeness who can do 100m in 11s. See Hoeness here playing a counter-attacking masterclass scoring 2 goals in the European Cup Final.

I can see the likes of Schwarzebeck (sorry for the mistake earlier on), Wimmer, Bonhof, Heynckes and Jensen being particularly under-rated here. I mean even my star players barring Beckenbauer, Brehme and Maier, like Schuster and Vogts never really got the recognition players of their ability should have.

I do know enough about Hoeness to think he would challenge that defence very well, it is more Jensen and Heynckes that I've seen less of. Never noticed Jensen to be honest, and I had an idea of Heynckes being more of a second striker. Seems misplaced once I look at his scoring record, mind.

 

[Joga Bonito]

I will concede that he has a fantastic and magical forward line. However, I think I have an equally, if not better WC winning backline here. The likes of Figo, Michel have are facing the likes of Berti Vogts and Andreas Brehme. I also have an iron-clad midfield with some truly monstrous players in there who are absolutely brilliant defensively and water-tight. He does have a great midfield and lets just assume for argument's sake that it ends up being a stale-mate in the middle. In the end I just think my defense would do a better job at dealing with his offense than his defense with mine. I just can't see how you can tackle two speedy wing-forwards/wide midfielders in a high line without a great defensive presence on the flanks unless you burden Enrique and Seedorf with additional tasks of covering the flanks which my midfield won't mind .

I do know enough about Hoeness to think he would challenge that defence very well, it is more Jensen and Heynckes that I've seen less of. Never noticed Jensen to be honest, and I had an idea of Heynckes being more of a second striker. Seems misplaced once I look at his scoring record, mind.

Just born in the wrong era mind you and by that Gerd Muller I mean. He used to play as a left wing forward at times but he was primarily a centre-forward with a terrific goal-scoring record.

JUPP HEYNCKES was just an unlucky bugger. He was born in the era of Gerd Muller which is never a good thing for any forward worth his salt. He was mostly outshone by Muller in the Bundesliga and was shunted out left to accommodate Muller in the German team. Heynckes was nonetheless a top notch striker who at his peak went toe to toe with Muller and even finished ahead of him in the goal scoring stakes once or twice. He was a goal-scoring machine who is the third ever top scorer in the Bundesliga charts after Muller and Fischer, scoring 168 goals in 226 games, at an average of a ridiculous 0.74 goals per game

My version isn't at his peak due to his injuries mind you but his goal-scoring record was still exemplary in the Bundesliga and he was a key figure for Gladbach who won 3 Bundesligas on the trot.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

I'm not sure of Raees tactics or defensive set up at all. I admit I'm not familiar with the players, but has Chendo and Helguera ever played RCB and LCB respectively? Chendo was a RB primarily far as I know and Helguera is still right footed, so not sure on his effectiveness at LCB in a 3 man defence. Playing a high line with this defence would not be ideal imo. Stretch play, how? I rate Brehme and Vogts and they will do a solid defensive job there. Your biggest advantage is Ronaldo against Kaiser/Schwarzenbeck and you'll definitely get some joy there, esp if Kaiser decides he is bored and goes off on a attacking tangent.

On the other hand, I'm totally unclear on how Joga plans to take advantage of your 3 man defence. Hoeness is supposed to be a inside forward or a right midfielder (where is he running per his arrow?)

 

[Balu]

I do know enough about Hoeness to think he would challenge that defence very well, it is more Jensen and Heynckes that I've seen less of. Never noticed Jensen to be honest, and I had an idea of Heynckes being more of a second striker. Seems misplaced once I look at his scoring record, mind.

You really really need to watch more of that Gladbach side with Netzer and Heynckes then, shame on you. One of the most beautiful attacking teams ever, playing such wonderful free flowing football.

 

[Joga Bonito]

Any excuse to post this glorious match. One of the best matches ever in the history of Bundesliga.



A more detailed match report here if you are interested.

http://bundesligafanatic.com/bundes...onchengladbach-197374-a-bundesliga-fairytale/

 

[Joga Bonito]

I'm not sure of Raees tactics or defensive set up at all. I admit I'm not familiar with the players, but has Chendo and Helguera ever played RCB and LCB respectively? Chendo was a RB primarily far as I know and Helguera is still right footed, so not sure on his effectiveness at LCB in a 3 man defence. Playing a high line with this defence would not be ideal imo. Stretch play, how? I rate Brehme and Vogts and they will do a solid defensive job there. Your biggest advantage is Ronaldo against Kaiser/Schwarzenbeck and you'll definitely get some joy there, esp if Kaiser decides he is bored and goes off on a attacking tangent.

On the other hand, I'm totally unclear on how Joga plans to take advantage of your 3 man defence. Hoeness is supposed to be a inside forward or a right midfielder (where is he running per his arrow?)

What is up with the Kaiser being talked about like he is David Luiz or something. Come on guys, he was an intelligent defender and not a gung-ho, irrational one...

Oh he is a hybrid of both in the sense that he had the workrate, tracking back, ability to tuck in of a right midfielder and then absolute searing pace to hit teams on the counter as an inside forward. Here he is primarily a inside forward as he is needed more offensively rather than defensively. However, his work-rate and ability to tuck into the midfield occasionally will still be there if needed.

 

[Joga Bonito]

You really really need to watch more of that Gladbach side with Netzer and Heynckes then, shame on you. One of the most beautiful attacking teams ever, playing such wonderful free flowing football.

Absolutely scandalous decision to rescind this match . Gladbach against Inter Milan. Ended 7-1 to Gladbach. That Netzer was quite some player. Lets not forget Italian defenses were as good as it can get at that time and that Inter side had some real cracking players.



Gladbach then faced Schalke in the league some time after this match. The Schalke goalkeeper famously claimed 'We aren't Inter' in an interview before the match. Yup they weren't Inter all right. At least Inter managed to score a goal but Schalke got thrashed 7-0

 

[Isotope]

Didn't know that Hoenes can play as RW/RF. Is it one of his best position?

 

[antohan]

You really really need to watch more of that Gladbach side with Netzer and Heynckes then, shame on you. One of the most beautiful attacking teams ever, playing such wonderful free flowing football.

Probably should indeed. I agree about how beautiful it was based on the handful of games I've seen, I just never registered this Jensen fella on my radar and I would have sworn Heynckes wasn't a CF. Small sample though!

 

[antohan]

Absolutely scandalous decision to rescind this match . Gladbach against Inter Milan. Ended 7-1 to Gladbach. That Netzer was quite some player. Lets not forget Italian defenses were as good as it can get at that time and that Inter side had some real cracking players.



Gladbach then faced Schalke in the league some time after this match. The Schalke goalkeeper famously claimed 'We aren't Inter' in an interview before the match. Yup they weren't Inter all right. At least Inter managed to score a goal but Schalke got thrashed 7-0

Quite clearly a centreforward Wonder if it was him changing roles over time? I feel a bit like someone in 30 years time thinking Giggs was a central midfielder...

 

[Joga Bonito]

Didn't know that Hoenes can play as RW/RF. Is it one of his best position?

He didn't really have a best position per se. He was capable of playing across a flat midfield trio and on both wings. He was another ridiculously versatile player which was strangely some kind of norm for the Bayern side of the 70s playing their own version of 'total football'.

 

[Balu]

Didn't know that Hoenes can play as RW/RF. Is it one of his best position?

Yeah. The Müller - Hoeneß attacking combination really was beautiful and devastating. No matter how you defend, one of them will always hurt you. Müller in the box or Hoeneß on the counter.

Quite clearly a centreforward Wonder if it was him changing roles over time? I feel a bit like someone in 30 years time thinking Giggs was a central midfielder...

It's just the games for the nationalteam that played a trick on you.