Nah me neither and the only benefit of getting something against them would be to push us away from the other top 4 contenders slightly but can see that being the only competitive thing now at the top
Man City 2020/21 - General discussion
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Nah me neither and the only benefit of getting something against them would be to push us away from the other top 4 contenders slightly but can see that being the only competitive thing now at the top
If 3 leagues in 5 years is the minimum that their spending should deliver, I ask who set that mark? This is because we have not even won one since 2013 despite the fact that we have spent a huge fortune too from 2017 till date and we don’t even look close to challenging even if we spend £100m now. Is it abnormal or normal that we have had big spending numbers too yet we have not come close? The comparisons with Man United are necessary because if you are setting a mark for which you will judge one, it has to be in relation to similarly capable contemporaries. Or is it more impressive that a Ranieri or Conte would win the league this season and get booted the following season? Or Pellegrini and Mancini winning the league on their respective last match days?
United failed horrendously. The spending in the initial years post Ferguson was some of the darkest times we've seen. Old players on huge deals, players that didn't fit, haphazard. By all means city deserve credit for generally signing well (though it took them some years to become a well oiled machine) but should solskjaer, who has spent fairly well, add huge signings like sancho and Haaland this summer then of course you'd expect us to improve and get close. Then if he spent another 200m+ the following you'd expect more. If he didn't, he'd be sacked, because 1 single manager spending almost 1 billion, on a squad that already had several key players, simply has to win some titles. Guardiolas predecessors had 2 in 4. Now he has 3 in 5. Albeit with better football, its what I would expect from any United manager doing the same, if no other team in the league was matching it
Yep, they've had by far the best squad of players since 2011. They should have won every league since then. Money talks. We've started matching them since 2016 but they we're playing catch up.
Clearly we couldn't do what we have without the huge amount of money made available to us by our owners but this idea we have just thrown money at players until some of it sticks is clearly nonsense. It is possible to view us as 'plastic oil money funded etc etc' whilst also acknowledging we have implemented a smart medium - long term strategy that has been lacking at United. Whether we have or haven't spent say £200M more than you or not over whatever period each making the argument chooses doesn't change that fact and nor is it changed by whether our money was 'earned the right way'. In fact we have by & large avoided the very biggest names/fees and whilst some of the signings have been no brainers (e.g. KDB) others have been much less fancied. We have bought players who fit our style and who seem to have the right attitude and Pep has largely improved them. Again, we couldn't have done all this without the money but we have spent well and I think what's particularly telling is that out of our entire squad, who would we want to see go ? barely anyone, which is unusual for a club that has 'just kept throwing money at players until some work out OK and we win things'. The difficulty for united stems from the top - it is clear that the owners are pleased with Woodward or they would have got rid of him. That sends a message throughout the club that money is more important than winning. Meanwhile ironically, given our understandable tag as the money club, everything inside the club points to success on the field being the primary barometer of success. It's bound to filter down through every department of our respective clubs and perhaps subliminally, even to the respective dressing rooms
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Funny to read this thread today and discover that of course City were always going to win the league this year. All you have to do is go back 10-15 pages to find people writing us off.
Which is it?
Which is it?
All it is is evidence (if it was needed) that peoples opinions flip and flop after every single matchday
City deserve huge credit for adopting amd sticking to a coherent philosophy in terms of how they want to play, bring in the players who fit their philosophy and stick to the plan through thick and thin.
But we can’t overlook the constant massive external cash infusion of funds that makes this all possible. It’s not a complaint but just a reality that can’t be ignored.
But we can’t overlook the constant massive external cash infusion of funds that makes this all possible. It’s not a complaint but just a reality that can’t be ignored.
To be fair you looked pretty awful up until the COVID break. Whatever happened at that point/after seems to have turned your season upside down.
I think we all know City are always going to be a prime contender but you weren't looking that way at the time, since then though you haven't looked back.
Football fans are fickle, who’d have believed it.
You're right. The run you guys have been on is unmatched and a reason you're ten points clear.
If United hadn't dropped the last minute equaliser vs Everton, and beaten Sheffield united at home and wba away we would be 7 points up on our tally which is insane to think about
One thing I think helped was the run since you last dropped points (which I think was a 1-1 at home vs wba mid December)
Since then I think the run of teams was one of the best set of fixtures you could have asked for (including Chelsea under Lampard, arsenal in the cup and United in a semi final
) Up until I think the Liverpool game it was a run of fixtures especially in the league that meant momentum could be built. And a bit of luck like the villa result (where that first goal wouldn't happen again now)
But credit to city as an easy run sometimes sees players take it easy and drop points (as per the three games I mentioned for United)
City deserve credit especially the defence and doing it without aguero and kdb
Don't try to be too smug please. Here is a post from you in September, wanting Pep sacked along with the hierarchy.
This will obviously be the narrative now whatever happens next, but the defense got sorted it out pretty much after the Spurs loss. In the 10 games after that, that were before the 'Covid-break', City condeded only twice, once in the League Cup and once an unlucky own goal / deflection against WBA. And tactics wise, the Southampton and Newcastle games (1-0 and 2-0) were probably the breaking point, that's when Guardiola returned back to the inverted fullback + outside winger system. Things have looked pretty decent already in those games.
To be fair, he is people ...
Yeah, I think he's done an excellent job over the last 2/3 months. I'm not the one saying he doesn't deserve credit for what's happened since Christmas - that's your lot. Would still like to see some silverware as evidence that this is something more than an excellent patch of form!
Pep is perfect for a club like City. He's expensive, but if you are willing/able to spend top dollar no other manager can guarantee results to the same degree now.
While I'm on this... There's a difference between what I've said and done, and what's been said and done in this thread by the others I was calling out. Between September & November, it looked over for Pep. Acknowledging that isn't a problem, but since then he's really turned it around. Happy to hold my hands up and say I was wrong about him back then. But everyone else has gone back to the usual bitter reasoning for why things have turned around. "Pep's not that good a manager, he just has a world class squad". Between September & November 2020 we had a rubbish squad and a manager who was out of ideas.
So what is it?
Well tbh, anyone who doesn't give City credit is crazy. What they have done over the past few months is brilliant. 15 straight odd wins is not just patch of form, its the professionalism of the performances. Going to liverpool, Spurs and putting in dominant performances shows that it is more than form, a team that has developed.
I won't lie over the years I have questioned Pep, it seemed he was worked out but this season he has shown to be a very good tactician, instead of going on the high press, the football is different but still entertaining.
Although his system has changed, the style remains the same.
What’s the Covid break benefit.. the postponed Everton game? We still played 2 games in that week, going to Chelsea Away 3 days later with half a squad - some break that!
Are we now currently at a disadvantage because we’ve had to play an extra game to fit it back in? Right in the middle of a run of a horrible run of fixtures too - you must all be very impressed! Especially since we are still in every cup so playing even more games! Love it.
Are we now currently at a disadvantage because we’ve had to play an extra game to fit it back in? Right in the middle of a run of a horrible run of fixtures too - you must all be very impressed! Especially since we are still in every cup so playing even more games! Love it.
“They had several key players” like Zabaleta (ageing), Toure (ageing), Kompany(crocked), Hart (not relevant to the new style), Fernandinho, De Bruyne, Silva, Aguero (also crocked for the most part) and Sterling. They were actively going for Pogba that year and balked at the price and instead decided to improvise and turn attacking midfielders into central midfielders. This felt like a stupid idea then because of the work rate that position would demand in the Epl. We got Pogba and we were over the moon.
They sure had the big names but many of these were at the twilight of their careers so it wasn’t any super team. I recall that their team was a massively unbalanced one and the league positions of both Manchester teams at the end of that season pretty much reflected this. This was their current reality despite having the big names. This is context I am providing to the narrative that they were a very good side that all Pep needed to do was add a few guys and they would be good to go. If I recall, theirs was one of the oldest teams in the league that year.
We have also had our troubles but let’s not turn a blind eye to the issues they had too. When you put out figures, it’s only fair to give some context. An example is that in the season they first won the league, even though the books read Man City Left back - £50m, the reality they had to cope with was Zinchenko for most of the season due to Mendy’s injury. I think Pep has a serious weakness in his style but in judging if your measure of 3 league titles in 5 (he has won many more titles than 3) is fair, I’d like to know if Ranieri winning it with lowly Leicester against all odds or Conte winning against the top managers in his first year at the epl only to get sacked the following years due to non-performance were better feats.
No one manager is clearly without weakness or fault or shortcoming today. Conte would be in Chelsea rather than Inter if he had his way, Jose would be at Madrid not Spurs if things worked well, Ancelotti is one of the greats but he heads Everton today. Managers do not intentionally take inferior offers but you have to give a manager credit when he stays up for long enough. I know you don’t rate Pep but even the GOAT of managers SAF was said to try to bring him here to us. In rating Pep, I’m firmly sided with the great SAF.
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I appreciate the thought of your replies. We're coming from 2 completely different sides I think. It's very fair to say that in fernandinho, de Bruyne, sterling, Silva and Aguero he inherited a really strong core group. (Aguero played 30 league games in most guardiola seasons.) they'd won 2 titles in 4 years so had that experience in the squad too where even guys like kompany remained influential.
Should a united manager take over from ole and inherit the solid core, and add 850m to it over 4 years I think there'd be completely understandable uproar if he didn't win 2 titles in that time.
Being a United fan on a united forum I completely get why any critical opinion of city is met with suspicion from those that don't agree, but Chelsea had a similar model and got similar (or better results). After a few years they hit a good manager he won titles and then with continued huge spending have been able to draft managers in and out who also won things without any 'rebuild'. Di Matteo won a CL, benitez won European trophies and cups, conte and ancelotti won titles. It is simply expected and whoever takes over from guardiola will more than likely win one in his first couple of seasons.
United are often, rightfully pointed to here as a contrast, but united are actually the outlier. They wasted so so much money in years of catastrophic business and should be held up as a failing extreme rather than any norm, and you can mitigate further given to loss of Ferguson.
As I said before, I'm able to look at things with 2 viewpoints. They are a formidable side that sometimes plays really great stuff and have players anybody would enjoy watching. They have bought well (mostly) and have a well run machine. And on the other hand it is exactly what should happen with that outlay of money. The only confusion is how they haven't won a CL when many big sides have been going through ups and downs. I can recognise that they are a good team and also say, yeah well that makes sense, when they win titles or coast to league cups with their b team. Again, just remove United (and Uniteds failure) from the discussion for a minute. No other team in England can compete long term. (unless Chelsea continue to spend again)
Success is a formality
Very little gets said about the squad harmony/professionalism/work rate/lack of off field drama from our players which is a big part of our success. How much is down to recruitment and how much down to management once they are here I'm not sure, but presumably lots of both - it's completely at odds with the mercenary image of players at a club with limitless money and no class. It's the exact opposite of what we (city fans) were told would happen when we started splashing the cash. Since yaya's cake, mendy acts like a bit of a nob, foden had the covid incident, sane didn't like not being played......I'm clutching at straws really.
Thanks a bunch buddy. I still recall that period clearly though. Many a times we judge yesterday’s matters today by using today’s metrics. Sterling was piss poor under Pellegrini for 2 years and was laughed at as waste of money. He was so clueless in that team so I wouldn’t even regard him as one of their strong core. City fans can correct me if I’m wrong but I think Jesus Navas benched him for a good period when Silva would play left and Sterling would warm the bench. Aguero was averaging 50% game time accross all competitions for years. Doesn’t sound right for someone you would want to rely on in attack the whole season. Kompany’s record was worse. They had big names alright but the side was hugely imbalanced with their best/available players (KDB and Silva) always getting in each other’s way because they both excelled as 10s so if you pushed the other guy out of his favored position, you effectively reduced the quality of his performance. They had a soft midfield and nothing/aged fullbacks with a defence built around someone who would make their team list look great but was mostly unavailable to do same on the pitch.
I think the epl is blessed with a situation where competition will thrive even more so than 10 years ago. City will undoubtedly win this one and look like favorites for the next one but there is a Liverpool lurking around and once they add 1 or 2 key signings and probably get some rest, they will be pushing City again. There’s Chelsea who could do well if their summer goes well. United need to bring in Grealish and Haaland (I hope we do) and 1 more signing and we will be really strong again. There is no league in the world where the 20 teams are vying for top spot. There will always be favorites year on year and there will always be weeping boys.
Having said all these, I think Pep is another human manager like all the others. He along with Klopp are my favorite managers for now. Mancini would win the league but relied on a last minute winner, Pellegrini relied on a Gerrard slip to do same. Before Pep came to Bayern, they struggled to win Buli titles but he made that trophy a regular one for them. We like to praise Jupp Heynkes for doing the treble but he couldn’t even win the Buli for two years when they were clear favorites. No one talks about this. People only remember the treble. I think Pep is the best manager out there in winning domestic leagues just like Ancelotti was once famed to be a specialist in cup wins.
Pep has been woeful in his champions league attempts of late and it puts a major dent on his credentials. People say he’s got all he needs to succeed but may I remind you that Jose had most of what he needed at Madrid but couldn’t make so much out of it. It is easier for a manager to get an opportunity at a wealthy or prestigious club than for the manager to maintain that position at the top and this is where Pep does pretty good. He made Buli a cheap achievement and even though he underperformed in CL, even the higher ups would want him to stay when he wanted to leave. Managers do not go from managing Bayern to Everton intentionally. They only do when things don’t exactly work out at Bayern. If a manager can remain at a highly demanding club or a club that demands immedeate or near immeadeate results, kudos to him because that’s proof that he’s doing something right.
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Most of the last 15 years were financially doped . Nothing that Chelsea or City have done is legitimate in any shape or form. Ever. Cannot ever be taken seriously
They are actually making me feel better about dropping points against WBA and Sheff Utd as it wouldn’t of mattered we were never finishing ahead of them. Get 2nd and I’ll be happy
Very true but then we will never know if they would have felt more pressure going into those games against Liverpool, Spurs & Everton if we hadn't dropped those silly points in the last few games.
I agree we made it easy for them which makes them play with no pressure and them knowing if they lose it’s no big deal. But even if we got 6 points from them games we still don’t have the quality and consistency to challenge them. Nothing to be ashamed about
Yeah if we had kept the pressure on they might have turned back into that City which matched the scousers stride for stride in that 18/19 title run-in and lets be honest we would never have been able to live with that level of consistency
https://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/gua...-city-really-leave/1veik9aakviwy1rdz1il4t5boz
A little article on Goal wondering if City are currently a better team with or without De Bryune.
They look unbeatable at the moment, midfielders have the ability to score goals just as much as they have a defensive balance. As great as De Bryune is - they do sometimes look like they play with a jagged edge in a team, a cheat code that they repeatedly target within a team for some creativity. Right now without him they look very balanced in their game play, everyone is as equal as other (from Gundogan to B.Silva to Foden, Rodri or Sterling) - they seem like they play with the same pass within the team like his Tiki Taka teams should do.
It's something I saw with Aguero, he can score the finishing touch on goals but ultimately he gives this edge to their team that can slow down the football they play.
Will De Bryune be back in the team straight away? Would they accidentally lose a bit of their form because of it?
A little article on Goal wondering if City are currently a better team with or without De Bryune.
They look unbeatable at the moment, midfielders have the ability to score goals just as much as they have a defensive balance. As great as De Bryune is - they do sometimes look like they play with a jagged edge in a team, a cheat code that they repeatedly target within a team for some creativity. Right now without him they look very balanced in their game play, everyone is as equal as other (from Gundogan to B.Silva to Foden, Rodri or Sterling) - they seem like they play with the same pass within the team like his Tiki Taka teams should do.
It's something I saw with Aguero, he can score the finishing touch on goals but ultimately he gives this edge to their team that can slow down the football they play.
Will De Bryune be back in the team straight away? Would they accidentally lose a bit of their form because of it?
I actually think the form of those around us have enabled this run. We’ve gone into a lot of tough games largely with no pressure because teams have dropped silly points in the days running up to it.
Within 5 minutes of returning against Everton, De Bruyne split the defense and put Jesus through on goal. On form he walks into the side. He'll more than make up for the slight decrease in ball retention with his dynamo and ability to split the lines, plus as the opposition, he is the last player I want to see on the ball when City counter.
With Aguero it's more of a valid question. He is a better scorer than Jesus but he can't do the other stuff as well that have contributed to City looking so fluid.
Reckon it's time for City to go on a run of bad games. To make the upcoming Derby more important.
When we were 14th I was told I was deluded yet admirable for saying Pep would still win the league in the Pep sacked thread. It was painfully obvious that we'd click and once we had the 1st tough run (Liverpool Spurs, Arsenal, United (the first times) out of the way if we were within touching distance we'd win it, I didn't expect us to pull away quite the way we have though and thought it would be the games after the derby where we started to lose the pack
Articles like this don't account for form etc... De Bruyne is probably the 4th or 5th best footballer in the world, he walks back into the team and makes us better. Goal are implying results might be different with KDB but I'd really doubt it.
I pretty much have City as default favourites every year since SAF - the only other team fans might have said were Liverpool but obviously they are out of the running and maybe some randomers said Chelsea given their spending but it was surely 99% saying City or Pool.
Yeah the chasing pack has applied no pressure to you at all
Arsenal & West Ham have some talented players but you know that City will find a way to combat that
It's all a bit grim at this point. 18 consecutive wins in England 'the most competitive league and domestic cups' despite this season not even being as good as their previous 2 wins.
When you look beyond the odd off season, or united who have failed in the running post Ferguson, and possibly Chelsea, there is simply no team that city shouldn't just be light years ahead of every year, for the foreseeable future.
How grim to be a fan of historically big clubs like arsenal, spurs and more and basically know you'll never compete again while City are owned by their current owners.
Were well on the way to a psg like domination of the PL, barring united or Chelsea spending as well as city.
PSG are the only comparison as Ferguson's United, and current dominant barca, real and juventus all show no normal club is immune to the cyclical nature of football.
When you look beyond the odd off season, or united who have failed in the running post Ferguson, and possibly Chelsea, there is simply no team that city shouldn't just be light years ahead of every year, for the foreseeable future.
How grim to be a fan of historically big clubs like arsenal, spurs and more and basically know you'll never compete again while City are owned by their current owners.
Were well on the way to a psg like domination of the PL, barring united or Chelsea spending as well as city.
PSG are the only comparison as Ferguson's United, and current dominant barca, real and juventus all show no normal club is immune to the cyclical nature of football.
That brown envelope to get the ban overturned might have been the best money they have ever spent. How do you defeat a state. Klopp did it for a few seasons but I just don't see how any long term challenge is sustainable
Yeah they have money but allowing the best manager in the world to go there unchallenged will always be Ed Woodwards biggest failing.
We basically accepted that we are second fiddle. Sick of it to be honest.
We basically accepted that we are second fiddle. Sick of it to be honest.