Maguire's Redemption

Anybody else feel like the blame of Maguire for their first goal is wrong? Not read the thread but seen it said in others. He takes a step towards his man at the same time they play the ball to Welbeck, who is absolutely free. If Maguire positions to cut that out then the short cut back (to his man) is on and it's another tap in. In which case he'd get slaughtered.

I don't necessarily rate Maguire that highly, but he's been decent enough for a while now. I bet De Ligt is little or no upgrade on him, from what I've seen they're similar players except Maguire is a bit more solid and experienced in the PL.
 
Denis79 said:
We are all talking about how slow Maguire is, Is De Ligt much faster though?
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Yes. He's significantly faster (although I wouldn't call him fast in isolation... but he isn't slow) and he also knows how to mitigate any difference in pace between him and the opponent much better than Maguire (the most drastic example of this would be his footrace with Mbappé).
 
pocco said:
Anybody else feel like the blame of Maguire for their first goal is wrong? Not read the thread but seen it said in others. He takes a step towards his man at the same time they play the ball to Welbeck, who is absolutely free. If Maguire positions to cut that out then the short cut back (to his man) is on and it's another tap in. In which case he'd get slaughtered.

I don't necessarily rate Maguire that highly, but he's been decent enough for a while now. I bet De Ligt is little or no upgrade on him, from what I've seen they're similar players except Maguire is a bit more solid and experienced in the PL.
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I don't think that people blame him for the last part of that playing sequence. It's the original cross from Pedro that he for whatever reason decides to let through that's the issue. He had all the time in the world to clear it and the fact that the ball inexplicably made its way to Mitoma in the first place when everyone expected him to clear it caught our defense off guard.

The defense as a unit should be better prepared for such unexpected scenarios so the blame for the final positioning should be shared across our entire backline... but that moment shouldn't have happened in the first place and this is on Maguire.
 
pocco said:
Anybody else feel like the blame of Maguire for their first goal is wrong? Not read the thread but seen it said in others. He takes a step towards his man at the same time they play the ball to Welbeck, who is absolutely free. If Maguire positions to cut that out then the short cut back (to his man) is on and it's another tap in. In which case he'd get slaughtered.

I don't necessarily rate Maguire that highly, but he's been decent enough for a while now. I bet De Ligt is little or no upgrade on him, from what I've seen they're similar players except Maguire is a bit more solid and experienced in the PL.
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Nah, for me he's done nothing. You either cut out the ball onto the box or engage the crosser. He's not responsible for a player 5 yards behind him. He's tried to do both and done nothing.
 
pocco said:
Anybody else feel like the blame of Maguire for their first goal is wrong? Not read the thread but seen it said in others. He takes a step towards his man at the same time they play the ball to Welbeck, who is absolutely free. If Maguire positions to cut that out then the short cut back (to his man) is on and it's another tap in. In which case he'd get slaughtered.

I don't necessarily rate Maguire that highly, but he's been decent enough for a while now. I bet De Ligt is little or no upgrade on him, from what I've seen they're similar players except Maguire is a bit more solid and experienced in the PL.
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A lack of agility stopped Maguire clearing that first cross in the move. I'd guess De Ligt, with more youth on his side, could have smashed it away.
 
pocco said:
Anybody else feel like the blame of Maguire for their first goal is wrong? Not read the thread but seen it said in others. He takes a step towards his man at the same time they play the ball to Welbeck, who is absolutely free. If Maguire positions to cut that out then the short cut back (to his man) is on and it's another tap in. In which case he'd get slaughtered.

I don't necessarily rate Maguire that highly, but he's been decent enough for a while now. I bet De Ligt is little or no upgrade on him, from what I've seen they're similar players except Maguire is a bit more solid and experienced in the PL.
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You can’t let a ball whizz across your own goal if you can help it at any decent level. He lets that happen twice for that goal.
 
Maguire isn't good enough.

At fault for the first goal.


Gets a lot of praise when he doesn't make a mistake that doesn't lead to a goal. Shouldnt be anywhere near the starting lineup when De Ligt and Martinez are fit.
 
pocco said:
Anybody else feel like the blame of Maguire for their first goal is wrong? Not read the thread but seen it said in others. He takes a step towards his man at the same time they play the ball to Welbeck, who is absolutely free. If Maguire positions to cut that out then the short cut back (to his man) is on and it's another tap in. In which case he'd get slaughtered.

I don't necessarily rate Maguire that highly, but he's been decent enough for a while now. I bet De Ligt is little or no upgrade on him, from what I've seen they're similar players except Maguire is a bit more solid and experienced in the PL.
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I'd question why there is a free man at the far post, missing the first cross 9/10 should not result in it coming straight back if others are doing their job. He'd have also got blamed for being in no man's land like Martinez had roles been reversed.
 
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Outside of the positioning, I don't think the communication between Onana, Maguire and Martinez is particularly great.
Personally the sooner De Ligt is involved the better. Atleast then they'll be familiarity between Onana and Martinez.
 
harms said:
I don't think that people blame him for the last part of that playing sequence. It's the original cross from Pedro that he for whatever reason decides to let through that's the issue. He had all the time in the world to clear it and the fact that the ball inexplicably made its way to Mitoma in the first place when everyone expected him to clear it caught our defense off guard.

The defense as a unit should be better prepared for such unexpected scenarios so the blame for the final positioning should be shared across our entire backline... but that moment shouldn't have happened in the first place and this is on Maguire.
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Exactly, and I am kind of more worried about the second phase in that sequence after Maguire misses the clearance. His limitations are well known, he can and will get wrong-footed and fail to act when the ball comes at him at an awkward angle. This is unlikely to change in his play.

But the second phase, once the ball passes him, shows the rest of the players shirking their defensive duties. Amad and Rashford not tracking their players into the box and Mainoo/Casemiro not reacting quickly enough when they see unmarked players in the six yard box. The good thing is it should be possible to coach this into them but the worrying thing is that it still hasn't at this point.
 
Yakuza_devils said:
Our best defender last season and this season (so far) and yet he got singled out.
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Do you not count fullbacks as defenders for whatever reason? Because Dalot was our stand out defender last season by some distance.
This season — he's been the best centre back out of the two so far but, again, it's certainly not clear if he was better than Mazraoui or Dalot. They've all been good.
 
harms said:
Do you not count fullbacks as defenders for whatever reason? Because Dalot was our stand out defender last season by some distance.
This season — he's been the best centre back out of the two so far but, again, it's certainly not clear if he was better than Mazraoui or Dalot. They've all been good.
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Defender as in actual defending. Yes, Dalot improve leaps and bounds in his passing, holding, link up play and attacking game. Excellent player.

But last season Maguire was MOTM in a quite a few matches contributing well mostly in defence. He was also okayish passing from the back.
 
All I keep reading about Maguire's defense is people focusing on other players mishaps. He has been here for almost 6 seasons now. He has never looked a top class player and no matter how sympathetic you are to his "tough" situation will change that. The man oozes panic, you can literally see it in his face because deep down he knows he doesn't belong here. The mystery is why he clings on desperately to Manchester United. He could have moved on to Westham with a nice cushy pay and guarantee starts. No stress but yet he chooses to stay.

Let me be frank, if Maguire or his representatives are reading this forum then he should know that there will never be redemption at Manchester United. The likes of Simon Stone and his media cronies can cuddle you all they like but it won't happen. You should have bounced along while you could but you chose continuous embarrassment. You are an embodiment of the failure that has sunk Manchester United for eons and the club must eliminate these issues ruthlessly before they can clamber back up to the top.
 
Another thing is that Maguire's professionalism can't be questioned at all. He was booed by his own fans, stripped of captaincy by his manager, benched and the club tried to push him out. He came back from all these and consistently performing well for us.

He deserves our utmost respect. He is no Sancho.
 
Just watching the replay, I think I’d blame Martinez more than Maguire for the goal. He’s looking straight at Welbeck stood in the centre of the goal with no one near him and instead decides to mark the much less dangerous player at the far post. Frustrating decision.

We do get very little luck though. Mitoma somehow finds a gap of about 2 cm where he can get the ball past Mazraoui and Maguire and into Welbeck. 99/100 he hits one of those players looking at the way they were set up.
 
Yakuza_devils said:
Another thing is that Maguire's professionalism can't be questioned at all. He was booed by his own fans, stripped of captaincy by his manager, benched and the club tried to push him out. He came back from all these and consistently performing well for us.

He deserves our utmost respect. He is no Sancho.
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Professionalism is the bare minimum of what you expect from anyone who is employed and has the jeopardy of being sacked if he violates the rules. So he turns up and tucks in his shirt nicely. Fans need to raise expectations and demands of this club.

Quality wise, he is abject and the so called professionalism is bogus given the Greek odyssey he found himself wrapped up in. As I've said, Manchester United is not a charity shop, it is a machine that must be at the top of excellence if it wants to survive.
 
Yakuza_devils said:
Another thing is that Maguire's professionalism can't be questioned at all. He was booed by his own fans, stripped of captaincy by his manager, benched and the club tried to push him out. He came back from all these and consistently performing well for us.

He deserves our utmost respect. He is no Sancho.
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Has anyone compared him to Sancho? Because they’d be wrong but I didn’t see any of those posts in here.
 
We finished 8th as TH wrongly mainly played a high line in attack and a low block in defence. This was partly due to Maguire lack of pace. You are never going to challenge for the big trophies playing the likes of Maguire. If Martinez and Shaw had have been fit I think Maguire would have been a late sub in most matches. His redemption was because of necessity only.
 
Revival2024 said:
Professionalism is the bare minimum of what you expect from anyone who is employed and has the jeopardy of being sacked if he violates the rules. So he turns up and tucks in his shirt nicely. Fans need to raise expectations and demands of this club.

Quality wise, he is abject and the so called professionalism is bogus given the Greek odyssey he found himself wrapped up in. As I've said, Manchester United is not a charity shop, it is a machine that must be at the top of excellence if it wants to survive.
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The fact is he was our best defender last season and so far this season. Of course, I hope that Martinez, DeLigt and Yoro could take over him and raised the bar. Till then we should still play him because he is our best defender. Simple.
 
Gandalf said:
Well of course it was a joke but you do realize Harry was injured for the FA cup final.
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I do realise that, but your sarcastic dig at Martinez doesn't really hold up when you acknowledge how vital he's been in the crucial games for us.
 
wolvored said:
We finished 8th as TH wrongly mainly played a high line in attack and a low block in defence. This was partly due to Maguire lack of pace. You are never going to challenge for the big trophies playing the likes of Maguire. If Martinez and Shaw had have been fit I think Maguire would have been a late sub in most matches. His redemption was because of necessity only.
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There's no evidence to suggest we play a higher line with Martinez on the pitch.
 
Leftback99 said:
There's no evidence to suggest we play a higher line with Martinez on the pitch.
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Maybe we hadnt got the other defenders to do this these last 2 years. TH is bringing in defenders to do this and I doubt he would have bought Martinez in if he couldn’t do it.
 
Lash said:
Nah, for me he's done nothing. You either cut out the ball onto the box or engage the crosser. He's not responsible for a player 5 yards behind him. He's tried to do both and done nothing.
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Somebody else was closing down the crosser, he was marking the mac stood right in front of him at the front post. Should he actually be marking two guys? Is that what you're saying? And closing down the cross?

EDIT just rewatched it and I'm right, Mazraoui closes down crosser, he steps across the guy at the front post, Welbeck unmarked. No argument to be made.
 
pocco said:
Don't you think he was concerned he might put it in his own net? It's not uncommon that defenders let those crosses go.
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I think he was concerned but that was the problem. Probably emotionally scarred by his own goal for England. Any top defender clears that ball with their left foot. Either hoof it upfield or, if they really don’t trust their left foot, bundle it out for a corner. It was by far the lowest risk option.
 
Marwood said:
A lack of agility stopped Maguire clearing that first cross in the move. I'd guess De Ligt, with more youth on his side, could have smashed it away.
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Potentially yeah, I've only seen one angle and it's a dangerous ball, I can only assume he didn't want to touch it into his own net. I can say that's potentially a mistake, but the other two behind him didn't touch it either. But he may have known they weren't getting to it and it was going wide, or didn't want to touch it into his own net. But there was still ample opportunity to stop the goal after that moment.
 
I like him but he's limited as a CB. De Ligt will be the first choice before long if he isn't now already.
 
harms said:
I don't think that people blame him for the last part of that playing sequence. It's the original cross from Pedro that he for whatever reason decides to let through that's the issue. He had all the time in the world to clear it and the fact that the ball inexplicably made its way to Mitoma in the first place when everyone expected him to clear it caught our defense off guard.

The defense as a unit should be better prepared for such unexpected scenarios so the blame for the final positioning should be shared across our entire backline... but that moment shouldn't have happened in the first place and this is on Maguire.
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OK fair enough, maybe I've jumped the mark as I'd seen others referencingthe second phase. I've only seen the one angle but he doesn't touch it, their attackers don't, and our other defender doesn't. Why?
 
It's honestly the strangest case of a footballer I've seen. It's been spun so much about the media now, he's immune to criticism or it's regarded bullying. Football players and even fans have became soft. If he plays well, he deserves all the plaudits. If he contributes to his errors (like Brighton's first goal) not progressing the ball fast enough in to midfield, he then rightly deserves criticism.

The pile on was bad when he was poor in previous seasons, shouldn't be made personal. Then again he's a professional footballer, who never communicated accountability when he cost us correctly. He's not good enough for United long term, everyone knows that deep down.
 
He's at his worst when he plays well and starts to believe his own hype. He plays much better when he's getting abuse from all sides.
 
Yakuza_devils said:
Maguire played better than Martinez for 2 games and get critised and singled out. Both game he saved us when opponent counter attack us with numerical advantage on players.

Brighton's second goal, shouldn't Martinez at least must be at his position? With Dalot?

Brighton's first goal, yes he did a mistake but Amad didn't track back to mark Mitoma too.
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There's your answer as to why he's criticized, it's a mistake that caused a goal where we were fairly comfortable up until that point. I thought Maguire was clear MOTM against Fulham and thought he was the better of the two centre backs against Brighton (that's not much of a compliment though) but we've been here so many times before with the mistakes. Martinez has started the season pretty badly for me and deserves criticism too but Maguire is in his sixth season here with us. I can see why people get frustrated and it's obvious he's not part of the team's long-term future.
 
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If Onana, Martinez and De Ligt player together, what language will they communicate in?

Dutch? English?
 
I am happy he is doing well for us again. I think he unfairly got some stick from the fans who didn't want him signed. This was made worse when he was made captain. I see a player who has some strengths in his game but doesn't quite fit the profile we are looking for right now. But you can at least commend his attitude and respect towards the club in sometimes difficult circumstances.
 
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