Yeah, right. At his age, even your Al-Moneylaundrihad FC won't touch Silva with a 10-foot pole.
Maguire | he stays!
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Yeah, right. At his age, even your Al-Moneylaundrihad FC won't touch Silva with a 10-foot pole.
To be fair the only time that Maguire looked like he was almost worth what we paid for him was in the second half of his second season, and for the majority of that period he had Henderson in goal and we were playing a slightly higher line. I'm not saying that Henderson and/or the higher line was the reason he looked better (his improvement was there while De Gea was in goal too), but it does indicate that he might not get any worse at least.
Well I don’t think we’re that far apart in our opinions and I think that you’re generally right in the context of today (not that what I think really matters of course ;-))
But I again make the point that he wasn’t generally considered to be a bad buy at the point of purchase and he’s still the same player with the same skills that he had on the day he was persuaded to sign his very generous contract.
Maybe the price paid was considered as up to £20m OTT but the purchase was, at that time, seen very much as case of Utd being practical in getting in a defender that was homegrown and widely regarded as a solid international standard centre back. A defender that a number of highly regarded clubs were showing a keen interest in.
I respect your view, I think it’s well thought out but very much coloured by seeing him struggle endlessly in a system that he’s really not designed for. IMO if you put him in a side that gets it’s points by pulling better teams down to their level then he’d come into his own again.
Yes there are many defenders much better suited to the systems of play employed in the upper echelons of the modern game but I contend that if you wanted a hulking great lump to stick into a deep defence to make life miserable for more skilful but less physical opposition players then it would still be worth looking at Harry.
And my view isn’t skewed by some loyalty to Maguire or what have you, I don’t particularly like him as a character, I just come on here to chew the fat but I thought I should shove my oar into these choppy waters because the revisionism in here is excessive . . The poor bloke gets castigated for not having the skills that he never had and wasn’t bought for. He’s not gone backwards, it may look like that at a glance but the truth is that the game’s gone forward.
However, the old game still exists in some clubs in the lower half of the Premier League and what they do is crude but effective.
As an example of how both modern and (ahem) more traditional football abilities can exist in close proximity, look at how Sam Allardyce manages his sides. He’s not a modern manager, there are probably hundreds of more modern managers than Fat Sam. He’s an old school spoiler but he still has a valuable place in the game
Look at the way his teams play. Is it beautiful fluid modern football? No.
Is it crude but effective football that keeps teams in the Premier League and makes many £millions for the owners of those clubs? Yes.
Would Harry be an asset to Fat Sam or a similar pragmatic manager skilled in the dark arts and could he help an otherwise struggling side avoid relegation and save them an absolute bundle? IMO Oh yes ;-)
On this basis I think that the only thing stopping a lower PL side from coughing up £30m+ is the huge salary that he’s on. That’s why I think the most likely outcome will be a loan with his wages subsidised by his parent club.
Oh, and I think that he’ll look a much better player when he’s allowed to play his kind of game again too.
PS. I’m a newby and my post count is done for the day so I’m off, but I’ve really enjoyed our little discussion. You’ve made me think through and clarify some long held opinions . . and, as I said earlier, I’m only a guesser and on here to chew the fat with good folk like yourself.
Maguire takes on more abuse than any premier league player but to be fair, he's not a bad player (otherwise we'd not pay £80m for his transfer). He's just not right for Manchester United - too much pressure, wrong playing style, not fast enough. It seems Harry Maguire is morphing into Phil Jones, going to be very difficult to shift and I don’t blame him for it. I bet those who say he should leave no matter what, would not take a massive pay cut to leave if they were also under contract. As with most people wages will probably be the defining factor. Southgates words about form and playing time for the last few years has been nothing but a bluff.
There was nothing wrong with his post. You guys just nitpick.
Would we? I don't think I'd give a feck in truth. I don't even think I'd open such an article it's that humdrum and uninteresting.
Pretty much.
A loan is pointless if it means we still have to go out and buy a replacement.
Agree, struggling to make sense of that too from our perspective.
ETH needs to get ruthless and tell him to find another club. Pointless having him, not good for anyone. He can't take the hint or read the room as usual.
He still employed by the club, it's a fairly standard response. What the club to do with the money they want from him, frankly is none of his business.
As being said several times in the thread, Tyrone Mings did it when he lost the captaincy to McGinn
I think Maguire will leave and I think it will do him the world of good to start again at another club. I expect there will be a lot of competition for CB for England so it will be difficult for him to get in if he’s not playing.
If we loan him out, then we’re idiots. It’s better to sell at a reduced cost than to pay some of his wage for a season, and risk the loaning club not buying him next summer anyway.
Eth showed last year (with Sabi and Wout) that he wants to have big squad depth no matter how good those players are. I think that he is afraid that he will not get replacement for Harry so he will rather keep him as 5th option. Harry on other hand sees that as opportunity to stay because there will be lots of games and injuries next year. And you can love him or not, unlike our other defenders, he is nearly always fit.
Only way to sell him is that Erik says to him l; "I want you out".
If Maguire wasn't guaranteed his England spot regardless, I think he'd have agreed to leave by now.
As it is I think sitting on our bench and getting a run out with England every so often maybe is what he's happy with
As it is I think sitting on our bench and getting a run out with England every so often maybe is what he's happy with
Some people's rationalisations are weird. It's supposedly not a weird PR piece because he's "getting it out there" and stopping the "micro-analysing" of the fallout of losing the captaincy.
Come on. There would be no micro-analysing. None. Zero. Zilch. Nada. If he showed up in the new season and wasn't captain no one would be surprised. Not the media, not the fans, not the opposition fans, not the pundits, players. No one. Everyone would know why. Immediately.
Come on. There would be no micro-analysing. None. Zero. Zilch. Nada. If he showed up in the new season and wasn't captain no one would be surprised. Not the media, not the fans, not the opposition fans, not the pundits, players. No one. Everyone would know why. Immediately.
My timing is off. My point was that whilst we overpaid by about 40m for him he was far from our worst ever transfer as someone claimed.
Might be totally wrong but I assume a loan is still good for us. If a club is willing to pay his wages in full we remove that off the books and it allows us to get a new player providing they are on lower ages and don’t got over x amount in an amortised transfer.
Just thinking from an FFP basis. An option to buy at next years book value would also secure us.
Just thinking from an FFP basis. An option to buy at next years book value would also secure us.
Multiple instances of him not being good enough long before Greece. Absolute joke how many of the same posters that defended this guy because. . . ‘Greece’ were quick to write off someone like Rashford.
He was never good enough, he certainly had better periods than the car crash that was 21/22 but he was never looking like the cornerstone of a league winning defence or anywhere near £80mil worth of player.
West Ham just got £105m plus the money they got for winning the Conference League
Loan is ridiculous. I’d tell them to shove it. They’d loan him and then they’ll give city £80m for some ridiculous player who doesn’t exist
They can pay up
Loan is ridiculous. I’d tell them to shove it. They’d loan him and then they’ll give city £80m for some ridiculous player who doesn’t exist
They can pay up
Maguire has two years left on his contract doesn’t he ? I can see us doing something like agreeing to pay £50K a week of his wages for the next two years to subsidise at any new club he goes too, his wages just went to £190K didn’t they ?
I’d be extremely happy if we got £30 million for Maguire and had to pay £50K a week of his wages if he doesn’t accept a pay cut to join someone else, surely he realises that having the captaincy taken from him and being fifth choice means he needs to move on if only to prolong his international career where he’s first choice when playing.
I’d be extremely happy if we got £30 million for Maguire and had to pay £50K a week of his wages if he doesn’t accept a pay cut to join someone else, surely he realises that having the captaincy taken from him and being fifth choice means he needs to move on if only to prolong his international career where he’s first choice when playing.
Not defending WH or anything but I read somewhere in the caf that they spent ton of money on transfers last season knowing they will cash in from selling Rice, so the 100m they got from Arsenal will go into balancing the books for FFP or something like and won't be spending a lot, they will need to replace Rice and get a striker too if Scmacca leaves (who they bought for 40m if I remember correctly!).
EtH Office Interior:
Doorbell rings.
"COME"
A sheepish Harry Maguire enters...
"Er boss...about this captaincy thing..."
"Ah yes heh Harry!" What good timing...for a change eh but No!"
"I'm going to make it clear to you...you are not in my plans...I think its best you should leave"
Maguire speaks
"So I'll be Captain when I'm subbed on with 3 minutes left then?"
"No you will only be captain if the club cat gets struck down with palsy
"I can't make it any clearer....you should find another team"
A slowly dawning reaction hits Maguire..."Well I'm not happy about this at all"
"Heh, well that is to be expected but you can always keep it quiet until you leave later in the week"
"My fans will be up in arms....I must tweet this out and get the campaign going to resinstate me!"
[Maguire reads responses to his tweet and looks up availability of a megabus ticket to London]
Doorbell rings.
"COME"
A sheepish Harry Maguire enters...
"Er boss...about this captaincy thing..."
"Ah yes heh Harry!" What good timing...for a change eh but No!"
"I'm going to make it clear to you...you are not in my plans...I think its best you should leave"
Maguire speaks
"So I'll be Captain when I'm subbed on with 3 minutes left then?"
"No you will only be captain if the club cat gets struck down with palsy
"I can't make it any clearer....you should find another team"
A slowly dawning reaction hits Maguire..."Well I'm not happy about this at all"
"Heh, well that is to be expected but you can always keep it quiet until you leave later in the week"
"My fans will be up in arms....I must tweet this out and get the campaign going to resinstate me!"
[Maguire reads responses to his tweet and looks up availability of a megabus ticket to London]
Hopefully this encourages him to leave this summer, has no future at the club so stop delaying the inevitable and get on with it. He was always doomed to fail even without added pressure of world record fee and Captaincy.
West Ham seems like ideal move for him if they are interested and I hope he has sense to move on.
West Ham seems like ideal move for him if they are interested and I hope he has sense to move on.
Yep this is the main problem. He knows as long as he plays a few games he is guaranteed a spot in the England team.
fecking Southgate…
Ok for the purpose of debate then, Maguire will not turn into a defender that we want. I certainly didnt head balls into my own net or give the ball to the opposition to score against us. If you blame supporters like me instead of Maguire then so be it. He and the likes of Martial deserving to having another 99th go at it is a joke.
His first season was decent but there were some warning signs. I was just grateful that we had a defender that was never injured, that was his best quality after years of Bailly, Jones and Smalling. He got absolutely wrecked by Giroud in the FA cup semi final and was pretty bad against Spurs post covid. Obviously anyone can have a poor game every now and then but we never really saw anywhere near a world class defender even before the Greece issue.
Good defender in the right set up and I think he'd do well for a club like West Ham or Spurs.
Not sure West Ham are serious. Dutch sourses say they are after Peer Schuurs who will be cheaper and affordable salary and a lot younger
Maguire’s twitter announcement was fine, it nipped speculation in the bud and made it so every journo in the land didn’t try to get a quote from him about it.
Now the writing is on the wall, hopefully we can shift him. There is absolutely no chance he can correct all the deficiencies in his game to be at the standard required, being cool on the ball and comfortable being closed down, fast to intercept - all these things he is not. *I suppose we could send him to La Masia for a year and see if he learns how to play that way, but it’s a bit of a long shot! He’s gone his whole footballing life being the opposite kind of player.
Having him even as a bench option hurts us in the long run because whatever minutes he would get would be better spent on a player coming through. He’s an evolutionary dead end.
Now the writing is on the wall, hopefully we can shift him. There is absolutely no chance he can correct all the deficiencies in his game to be at the standard required, being cool on the ball and comfortable being closed down, fast to intercept - all these things he is not. *I suppose we could send him to La Masia for a year and see if he learns how to play that way, but it’s a bit of a long shot! He’s gone his whole footballing life being the opposite kind of player.
Having him even as a bench option hurts us in the long run because whatever minutes he would get would be better spent on a player coming through. He’s an evolutionary dead end.
He could’ve missed taking a swing at the manager, no?
Showing that fire and some balls on the pitch rather than in a twitter post.
Absolute clown.
Boehly tax please
Oh, Boehly… it’s 65m plus add-ons then
I get the others, but shocked?
My preference is certainly for Maguire to leave if we can get a good fee for him this summer. A loan makes zero sense to me though, unless there is an obligation to buy for a decent fee at the end of it.
If somehow Harry sticks around I don’t see it as the end of the world though. As we saw this season - Martinez, Varane, Lindelof, Maguire and Shaw is still a great group of CBs to cement top 4, challenge for domestic trophies and do well in Europe.
Either way, whether it is this summer or next, I hope we buy another cream of the crop CB to succeed Varane long-term.
Scalvini, Antonio Silva and De Ligt would be my top 3.
If somehow Harry sticks around I don’t see it as the end of the world though. As we saw this season - Martinez, Varane, Lindelof, Maguire and Shaw is still a great group of CBs to cement top 4, challenge for domestic trophies and do well in Europe.
Either way, whether it is this summer or next, I hope we buy another cream of the crop CB to succeed Varane long-term.
Scalvini, Antonio Silva and De Ligt would be my top 3.
It would be excellent to sell him to Chelsea. Good fee plus we would weaken Chelsea as well
Poch did sign Dier for Spurs...