Maguire | he stays!

Baxquux said:
Again, those of us who were suggesting that the club isn't out of the woods yet in terms of how it's being run - despite everyone suggesting that we're suddenly great at selling, have a fully joined up strategy etc - events keep reinforcing that stance. For every good bit of selling, you have the Maguire issue, the failure to sell McTominay, the inordinate delay around the MG decision, and smaller decisions. Obviously its not as chaotic as under peak Woodward - the signings approach on the whole seems broadly better, the football side more emphasised - but there are still signs of concern....
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Yeah agreed there seems to be a serious lack of awareness with regard to how shit our assets are. Look at DDG if not for an unfortunate injury at Madrid he has no serious offers, only one club is interested in McTominay and Maguire yet we are still playing around with Maguire even after chancing our arm at haggling for a better price on the former and seeing it blowing up in our face.

It was absolutely critical to get money for McTominay and Maguire and then invest in more suitable options but I won't be shocked if West Ham end up walking away from both deals.
 
AneRu said:
Yeah agreed there seems to be a serious lack of awareness with regard to how shit our assets are. Look at DDG if not for an unfortunate injury at Madrid he has no serious offers, only one club is interested in McTominay and Maguire yet we are still playing around with Maguire even after chancing our arm at haggling for a better price on the former and seeing it blowing up in our face.

It was absolutely critical to get money for McTominay and Maguire and then invest in more suitable options but I won't be shocked if West Ham end up walking away from both deals.
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Yeah wouldn't be least bit shocked if Utd find a way of completely cocking this up
 
Abraxas said:
I agree.

The only part of this summary I'd take issue with is I'm not sure there's all that much blame for his partners overall. Mainly because irrespective of whether he's had Varane or whoever is perceived to be our best outright defender, he's still struggled in recent times making silly errors.

We've also seen that he seems to be more of a problem than the alternatives. Lindelof for example looked competent when he was not paired with Maguire.

Good luck to him. Absolutely no issue with him and the personal vitriol was OTT. Hopefully he can rebuild.
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I think he was done by the time Varane arrived, he’d already lost it and succumbed to the pressure and the spotlight. His confidence was gone by then.

I’m more referring to the days when he was partnering Lindelof with a midfield of Pogba/Fred/McT/Bruno in front, a midfield that was a complete shambles defensively that was regularly left wide open against pretty much most teams at the time. Lindelof was just as big as, if not bigger, a liability, but he didn’t have the £80m price tag. DDG wasn’t really much help in that regard either. Great shot stopper but none of them could coordinate with each other.
 
gaffs said:
Why the hell would United be waiting? Get him out before something goes sideways.
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i thought this would be completed by this evening, they probably have to wait to call that dithering potato Joel in Florida first.
 
AneRu said:
Yeah agreed there seems to be a serious lack of awareness with regard to how shit our assets are. Look at DDG if not for an unfortunate injury at Madrid he has no serious offers, only one club is interested in McTominay and Maguire yet we are still playing around with Maguire even after chancing our arm at haggling for a better price on the former and seeing it blowing up in our face.

It was absolutely critical to get money for McTominay and Maguire and then invest in more suitable options but I won't be shocked if West Ham end up walking away from both deals.
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Nothing blew up in our face.

Ten Hag and the club have made it clear that they are not looking to sell Scott in this window. He does have a valuation of 45M in their eyes and if that was met they would entertain it but bids of 30M are of no interest as we are perfectly happy to keep him as squad depth. Your own personal desire to see him sold is of no relevance to the team or the manager.

The Maguire issue? One tweet saying we are waiting to decide on his replacement and you are falling for it hook, line and sinker. West Ham have agreed the price, we have negotiated a settlement with Harry and he was never going to be rushed into their team for this weekend. Relax and breathe buddy, he is going to be gone this time next week.
 
el3mel said:
Didn't we already sign Evans to take his spot as 4th option in defense ? Varane, Martinez, Lindelof and Evans should be enough to see the season through.
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Don't you dare say we aren't getting a replacement
 
Gandalf said:
Nothing blew up in our face.

Ten Hag and the club have made it clear that they are not looking to sell Scott in this window. He does have a valuation of 45M in their eyes and if that was met they would entertain it but bids of 30M are of no interest as we are perfectly happy to keep him as squad depth. Your own personal desire to see him sold is of no relevance to the team or the manager.

The Maguire issue? One tweet saying we are waiting to decide on his replacement and you are falling for it hook, line and sinker. West Ham have agreed the price, we have negotiated a settlement with Harry and he was never going to be rushed into their team for this weekend. Relax and breathe buddy, he is going to be gone this time next week.
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Feck me next week is too long to wait
 
el3mel said:
Didn't we already sign Evans to take his spot as 4th option in defense ? Varane, Martinez, Lindelof and Evans should be enough to see the season through.
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Evans is worse than Maguire. Having him as 4th choice will make actually make us weaker this season.

We need a proper RCB who can step in for Varane in about 30% of our games - mostly against weaker teams, but also inevitably against the top 6 at various points. The drop off can't be as big as the one to Evans. He's only really serviceable as fifth choice in case of an injury crisis.
 
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el3mel said:
Didn't we already sign Evans to take his spot as 4th option in defense ? Varane, Martinez, Lindelof and Evans should be enough to see the season through.
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That doesn't look good enough at all.
Especially as we know Varane wont/can't play more than about 60% of the games.
 
Gandalf said:
Nothing blew up in our face.

Ten Hag and the club have made it clear that they are not looking to sell Scott in this window. He does have a valuation of 45M in their eyes and if that was met they would entertain it but bids of 30M are of no interest as we are perfectly happy to keep him as squad depth. Your own personal desire to see him sold is of no relevance to the team or the manager.

The Maguire issue? One tweet saying we are waiting to decide on his replacement and you are falling for it hook, line and sinker. West Ham have agreed the price, we have negotiated a settlement with Harry and he was never going to be rushed into their team for this weekend. Relax and breathe buddy, he is going to be gone this time next week.
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To be honest I won't until I see him holding that West Ham shirt and Moyes all ear to ear smiling. On McTominay we should agree to disagree, I think it's important that we sell him and buy a player more capable of filling in for Casemiro. That's as important as any signing we can make.
 
AneRu said:
To be honest I won't until I see him holding that West Ham shirt and Moyes all ear to ear smiling. On McTominay we should agree to disagree, I think it's important that we sell him and buy a player more capable of filling in for Casemiro. That's as important as any signing we can make.
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Yeah need someone capable of doing that
 
AneRu said:
To be honest I won't until I see him holding that West Ham shirt and Moyes all ear to ear smiling. On McTominay we should agree to disagree, I think it's important that we sell him and buy a player more capable of filling in for Casemiro. That's as important as any signing we can make.
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I agree about buying the player to fill in for Casemiro but the briefing from the club all along has been that the player they are targeting is Amrabat and the key to that was selling Fred and getting Donny out on loan. Those deals are close to wrapping up so we should be good there. Scott was always in the bracket of, if we get an offer too good to refuse we will sell and reinvest but he is useful enough to the squad that we won't give anyone a discount on him. He is one of the lower paid squad members, has a few more years at his peak and is under contract for 3 more years. His value should not go down and we can just as easily sell him next year to fund whatever big move ETH wants.
 
Devil You Know said:
Evans is worse than Maguire. Having him as 4th choice will make actually make us weaker this season.

We need a proper RCB who can step in for Varane in about 30% of our games.
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Get the feck out with this bullshit. Maguire is worthless. What will the drop off be when all he does well is the sporadic forward touch to the right back?

Completely replaceable. Evans can do the job until the real replacement comes in.
 
windycityfan said:
Get the feck out with this bullshit. Maguire is worthless. What will the drop off be when all he does well is the sporadic forward touch to the right back?

Completely replaceable. Evans can do the job until the real replacement comes in.
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You've been gaslit.
 
Gandalf said:
I agree about buying the player to fill in for Casemiro but the briefing from the club all along has been that the player they are targeting is Amrabat and the key to that was selling Fred and getting Donny out on loan. Those deals are close to wrapping up so we should be good there. Scott was always in the bracket of, if we get an offer too good to refuse we will sell and reinvest but he is useful enough to the squad that we won't give anyone a discount on him. He is one of the lower paid squad members, has a few more years at his peak and is under contract for 3 more years. His value should not go down and we can just as easily sell him next year to fund whatever big move ETH wants.
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Don't you be so sure his value won't go dowm
 
croadyman said:
Don't you be so sure his value won't go dowm
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The valuation for midfielders is going insane right now. Scott might not be the greatest player in our history but in a market where a kid with passing stats comparable to Fred and 45 PL games is going for 111M he is worth a whole lot more than 30M. I can't see that changing, Enzo, Rice, Caicedo and probably Paqueta all over 100M is serious inflation and it will trickle down to the next tier of players.
 
Gandalf said:
The valuation for midfielders is going insane right now. Scott might not be the greatest player in our history but in a market where a kid with passing stats comparable to Fred and 45 PL games is going for 111M he is worth a whole lot more than 30M. I can't see that changing, Enzo, Rice, Caicedo and probably Paqueta all over 100M is serious inflation and it will trickle down to the next tier of players.
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I hope you are right on this
 
gaffs said:
Why the hell would United be waiting? Get him out before something goes sideways.
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Exactly my view. We got the bailout that we needed. There are far plenty alternatives within budget for a player that’s in my view unequivocally replaceable.

Let it happen before another backwards pass into an incoming winger turns into a disaster.
 
croadyman said:
Shouldn't be escalating it should be done
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Wrong. Just because we've kept in contact with clubs over a possible replacement doesn't mean it can just happen instantly. Once West Ham submitted their bid over the weekend we've likely escalated the replacement process and want to make sure that's sorted first.

Don't want to sell Maguire and then be manhandled by the club we're buying from.
 
AneRu said:
Yeah agreed there seems to be a serious lack of awareness with regard to how shit our assets are. Look at DDG if not for an unfortunate injury at Madrid he has no serious offers, only one club is interested in McTominay and Maguire yet we are still playing around with Maguire even after chancing our arm at haggling for a better price on the former and seeing it blowing up in our face.

It was absolutely critical to get money for McTominay and Maguire and then invest in more suitable options but I won't be shocked if West Ham end up walking away from both deals.
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FFS. The club doesn't want to sell McTominay as much as the fans do. Get over it.
 
el3mel said:
Didn't we already sign Evans to take his spot as 4th option in defense ? Varane, Martinez, Lindelof and Evans should be enough to see the season through.
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Evans is on a temporary contract and he should not be viewed as 4th choice.
 
roseguy64 said:
Wrong. Just because we've kept in contact with clubs over a possible replacement doesn't mean it can just happen instantly. Once West Ham submitted their bid over the weekend we've likely escalated the replacement process and want to make sure that's sorted first.

Don't want to sell Maguire and then be manhandled by the club we're buying from.
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Hard not to worry about Todibo's aerial ability,by the looks of it there's little between him and Pavard on that score so not easy decision
 
Gandalf said:
The valuation for midfielders is going insane right now. Scott might not be the greatest player in our history but in a market where a kid with passing stats comparable to Fred and 45 PL games is going for 111M he is worth a whole lot more than 30M. I can't see that changing, Enzo, Rice, Caicedo and probably Paqueta all over 100M is serious inflation and it will trickle down to the next tier of players.
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Yep agreed. We can get a similar 30m bid for McTominay next season if the club wants to sell then. We would lower our price from 45m.
 
hobbers said:
Ahh that old rank incompetence at every level of the club rears its head again.

Dithering over how to replace a 5th choice centreback, mugs.
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We sell Maguire then teams know we are desperate and they then increase the price by a few million, better this way and getting who we need in at the right price.
 
All this Evans talk a player who was back up for us and got let go 8 years ago is all of a sudden good enough again to step in are we meant to be making progress or going backwards ? it's pure sentimentality he wasn't ever a first choice back then I thank him for his time at the club and being a decent squad player for us but no way should we be relying on him in tough games in the premiership or Europe if we get injuries.
 
massey said:
All this Evans talk a player who was back up for us and got let go 8 years ago is all of a sudden good enough again to step in are we meant to be makimg progress or going backwards ? it's pure sentimentality he wasn't ever a first choice back then I thank him for his time at the club and being a decent squad player for us but no way should we be relying on him in tough games in the premiership or Europe if we get injuries it's absolute madness.
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You do know we will get either Pavard or Torino to replace Maguire if he leaves?
 
I'm confused, I thought Evans hadn't been extended yet to a season contract and was looking for options ?

The club did him a small solid and even if he stays he's obviously a very deep squad option and unofficial assistant coach / role model... Or so I guessed.
 
RDCR07 said:
You do know we will get either Pavard or Torino to replace Maguire if he leaves?
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I think most of us realize that but there is a core of posters who have been banging on about this since pre season began and a quickly debunked article from the Belfast Telegraph has them convinced he is signed and that for some reason this is a good thing. He was a competent squad player at his peak and that was a decade ago. I am fairly sure @massey is aware we are not signing Evans and is just expressing his irritation with those who won't let it go.
 
Gandalf said:
I think most of us realize that but there is a core of posters who have been banging on about this since pre season began and a quickly debunked article from the Belfast Telegraph has them convinced he is signed and that for some reason this is a good thing. He was a competent squad player at his peak and that was a decade ago. I am fairly sure @massey is aware we are not signing Evans and is just expressing his irritation with those who won't let it go.
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We really need to more concerned about Todibo's aerial ability for someone so tall. This is the reason I am edging towards Pavard because not much in it and plays more positions
 
tomaldinho1 said:
Varane, Martinez, Lindelof, Evans + Shaw, Case ETH has used there. I'm assuming Bailly is off and Mengi goes Amiens on loan.

Even with that, my point is we will definitely know who our No1 target is and have everything agreed/ready to go in short order. There's no way we've got to this stage in Maguire's transfer and suddenly Murtough's realised we need to decide on who to replace him with.
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Evans is 35 and finished, and Shaw is our best left back. Varane, Martinez and Lindelof are our three main centre half options and we’ll need a fourth. As you suggest, I expect this is already in hand.
 
hobbers said:
You think Nice or Bayern are completely unaware that we're selling Maguire?

He's 5th fecking choice here it doesnt make us one iota more desperate.
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Bayern want to move Pavard this window because he won't sign a new contract. They can see we have a fee agreed obviously but this gives us a credible threat of just walking away if asking price is too high. If Maguire leaves beforehand, the threat is non-credible, as we'd have few other options.
 
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