Madeleine McCann

If the McCanns were so certain from the start that Madeleine had been abducted, it suggests that they felt misgivings about her safety/dodgy people hanging around prior to the alleged event; the alternative is that Kate & co are psychic...ahem. More seriously, if we give them the benefit of the doubt and assume that the McCanns' misgivings were genuine, it begs the question why Madeline was left practically alone in the apartment given the McCanns' concerns.

Oh, and a word about the so-called conspiracy theories: no-one doubts that there are people who get a thrill from playing 'internet detective' in cases like these but, for most normal people, this is a tragic case no matter who might be responsible; many of us would rather believe that some criminal was responsible instead of Madeleine's parents being culpable in some way - neither of these choices are 'comfortable' but one is undoubtably preferable to the other. Who would ordinarily want to blame poor Madeleine's parents? They're strangers to us, we have no reason to dislike or wantonly accuse them of wrongdoing regardless of entirely subjective concerns over their public demeanour or social class or whatever. Their actions make people suspicious, not preconceptions about them as human beings: to put it crudely and briefly, a narrative of the McCanns' blamelessness has been created & this is nowhere near the same as a genuine & impartial consideration of the evidence. Ordinary people - not internet detectives, who'll surely move on to the next 'mass media mystery' eventually - would like to know the truth, and would like justice for Madeleine. In closing, there are solid reasons why so many people suspect the McCanns of not telling the whole truth, and this is because they have failed to convince that they've done so despite cautious newspaper coverage, governmental interference, PR spin & drop-of-the-hat litigiousness.
 
In fairness the twins were in the same room, so she probably saw that they were there. The issue isn't not knowing that the twins were abducted, its leaving them alone to raise the alarm. Which can perhaps be excused by the shock of the situation.
 
swooshboy said:
Would be more helpful for an actual discussion, if they could respond with some thoughts of how it could have happened, or point to the evidence that they feel supports the theory that they believe.

.
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In other words, speculate.

As for evidence? Are we talking actual evidence, or rumor, other speculation and 'evidence' from dodgy websites?

swooshboy said:
We know which questions Kate refused to answer - such as:
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Source?
 
Sarni said:
Indeed what I find baffling is why they instantly thought that she'd been abducted when there was no sign of forced entry and patio door was left open in the first place anyway. She might have simply wandered away for all they knew. Apparently they thought that the window being open wide was enough of an evidence but couldn't the kid simply open it herself?

Abductions are relatively rare, especially in foreign countries where people don't even know you so it makes no sense for them to take random kids for ransom, it surely shouldn't be the first thing that springs to your mind when you find you kid's bed empty.

Refusing to co-operate with the police is another thing. They were the only authority conducting the investigation at the time so by obstructing their work and making it harder you're virtually nullifying any chance of finding your daughter there might be.
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Exactly - yet even if you thought something like that was unlikely, surely you would at least look for them...or run outside and call their name?

But no, the first thing she did when seeing an empty bed was run back to her friends (totally ignoring her other children - which surely goes against any parents primeval instincts) and telling them that Madeline had been abducted.
 
Sarni said:
Indeed what I find baffling is why they instantly thought that she'd been abducted when there was no sign of forced entry and patio door was left open in the first place anyway. She might have simply wandered away for all they knew. Apparently they thought that the window being open wide was enough of an evidence but couldn't the kid simply open it herself?

Abductions are relatively rare, especially in foreign countries where people don't even know you so it makes no sense for them to take random kids for ransom, it surely shouldn't be the first thing that springs to your mind when you find you kid's bed empty.

Refusing to co-operate with the police is another thing. They were the only authority conducting the investigation at the time so by obstructing their work and making it harder you're virtually nullifying any chance of finding your daughter there might be.
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Their initial story was that the abductor must have forced his way in through a window, which was then discredited by the police and hotel staff when they said there was no sign of any forced entry. It was only then that they said the patio door was open. The window and shutters were completely closed when the police arrived and no one had shut them. The McCanns response to this was that the abductor came in through an open patio door, and left through a window covered with heavy metal shutters, which he then closed behind him despite that only being possible from the inside.
 
Eyepopper said:
In other words, speculate.

As for evidence? Are we talking actual evidence, or rumor, other speculation and 'evidence' from dodgy websites?


Source?
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The Portuguese police released the questions and a list is available off BBC News with a quick google search.
 
Alex99 said:
The Portuguese police released the questions and a list is available off BBC News with a quick google search.
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Top result on Google for 'Questions Kate McCann refused to answer'
1. Daily Mail
2. madeleinemythsexposed.pbworks.com
3. A site belonging to someone called Christopher Spivey :confused:

Damming stuff.
 
Eyepopper said:
Top result on Google for 'Questions Kate McCann refused to answer'
1. Daily Mail
2. madeleinemythsexposed.pbworks.com
3. A site belonging to someone called Christopher Spivey :confused:

Damming stuff.
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And the BBC which I already pointed out.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7542939.stm

So unless you're suggesting the BBC have an agenda against the McCanns or a desire to be sensationalist, please feel free to pick and choose where you can find things to try and discredit them.
 
Actually the BBC didn't show up in a google search at all.

Ho hum, at least in this instance we're not listening to claims based on questionable sources.

As for why she didn't answer those questions, I'd imagine it was under legal advice and advice from the British Embassy.

It's very easy to sit on the internet 6 years later and pose conspiracies but I'd lay a heavy bet that a good few of us wouldn't react the best to begin accused in those circumstances, not answering questions isn't an indication of guilt either.

None of us know the full context of what went on their at the time, sitting around trying to draw conclusions based on 'facts' from questionable sources, with the odd BBC website thrown in, is a waste of time.
 
swooshboy said:
Exactly - yet even if you thought something like that was unlikely, surely you would at least look for them...or run outside and call their name?

But no, the first thing she did when seeing an empty bed was run back to her friends (totally ignoring her other children - which surely goes against any parents primeval instincts) and telling them that Madeline had been abducted.
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Indeed, if your kid had just been abducted why would you leave your other two kids in the room and run back to your friends instead of simply just calling them and staying in the room to protect the twins? What if you leave the room and the abductor snatches the other two kids?
 
Eyepopper said:
In other words, speculate.

As for evidence? Are we talking actual evidence, or rumor, other speculation and 'evidence' from dodgy websites?


Source?
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I have no problem with people speculating about what happened. Or since, as you said, nobody knows anything, maybe theres zero point in having a thread on this so it might as well be locked. Should this apply to all threads where we don't know the absolute truth?

As for evidence - would be happy to see any that you feel supports the view that she was abducted. There are many sites out there, but the ones I have posted I have not tried to convince everyone that they offer absolute truth - only that they raise valid questions and I would like to hear other peoples thoughts on them.

The points that I have mentioned and repeated here are ones that I do not have an answer to, but strike me as strange. In my opinion there are plenty of these in this case. Enough for me to doubt the scenario that the McCann's believe transpired.

I have repeatedly asked people who believe that Madeline was abducted to share the evidence that they believe supports it - as I am interested and want to see different perspectives and discuss this.
 
Eyepopper said:
Actually the BBC didn't show up in a google search at all.

Ho hum, at least in this instance we're not listening to claims based on questionable sources.

As for why she didn't answer those questions, I'd imagine it was under legal advice and advice from the British Embassy.

It's very easy to sit on the internet 6 years later and pose conspiracies but I'd lay a heavy bet that a good few of us wouldn't react the best to begin accused in those circumstances, not answering questions isn't an indication of guilt either.

None of us know the full context of what went on their at the time, sitting around trying to draw conclusions based on 'facts' from questionable sources, with the odd BBC website thrown in, is a waste of time.
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But your opinion is just a waste of time.
 
Eyepopper said:
Actually the BBC didn't show up in a google search at all.

Ho hum, at least in this instance we're not listening to claims based on questionable sources.

As for why she didn't answer those questions, I'd imagine it was under legal advice and advice from the British Embassy.

It's very easy to sit on the internet 6 years later and pose conspiracies but I'd lay a heavy bet that a good few of us wouldn't react the best to begin accused in those circumstances, not answering questions isn't an indication of guilt either.

None of us know the full context of what went on their at the time, sitting around trying to draw conclusions based on 'facts' from questionable sources, with the odd BBC website thrown in, is a waste of time.
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Well, it was on the 2nd page of the search results. So in fact it was the 15th highest result out of 35,500 results. I would argue that was fairly high.

Nothing like trying to mislead people...
 
swooshboy said:
But your opinion is just a waste of time.
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That's not my opinion. It's pretty much standard operating procedure for a case of that nature involving British citizens who are victims of such a serious crime in a foreign country.

Anyway, I'm done, go back to your theorizing based on thin air and shitty websites.
 
swooshboy said:
Well, it was on the 2nd page of the search results.

Nothing like trying to mislead people...
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Yes, by not scrolling past the first page I'm actively trying to mislead people.

You're not a conspiracy nut either!
 
Alex99 said:
It's the 2nd result if you google "list of questions asked to kate mccann"
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I obviously googled 'questions Kate McCann refused to answer' knowing it would throw up nothing but bollocks (unless you scroll to page 2), then deliberately didn't scroll to page 2 to mislead people.

Thank feck I was no where near the place when Madeleine McCaan went missing eh!
 
In a way it reminds me of a recent case here in Sosnowiec, Poland. It happened a year and a half ago in January 2012, a woman went to the police saying that her 6-month old child had been abducted. Police searched the local area but couldn't find any trace, they created efits of a man who supposedly followed the woman.

Two days later she owned up that kid was dead and she put her in some ruins of an old house in the suburbs. She maintained that it was an accident and she buried her because she was afraid of the reaction of the family. Sometime later it turned out that the baby was deliberately strangled.

If it weren't for a private detective who forced this woman into her confession by misleading her into thinking that there are witnesses who can account for that they'd still be searching probably.
 
Eyepopper said:
I obviously googled 'questions Kate McCann refused to answer' knowing it would throw up nothing but bollocks (unless you scroll to page 2), then deliberately didn't scroll to page 2 to mislead people.

Thank feck I was no where near the place when Madeleine McCaan went missing eh!
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I was just pointing out that it was much higher in the results if you searched for something different. I have no idea why you think we're all conspiracy nuts when your only contributions to this thread have been to tell people that they don't know things for certain (when in some cases they do) and to speculate just as much as others with alternative scenarios whilst simultaneously claiming that there's no point in speculating.

I said before you searched it that the list was on the BBC website, yet you still replied with the Daily Mail and two other sites in an obvious attempt to discredit the list of questions as bollocks. Not scrolling to the second page doesn't make it look like you're deliberately misleading people, ignoring what someone says and replying with shite does.
 
Eyepopper said:
That's not my opinion. It's pretty much standard operating procedure for a case of that nature involving British citizens who are victims of such a serious crime in a foreign country.

Anyway, I'm done, go back to your theorizing based on thin air and shitty websites.
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Why do you feel the need to act so superior to people in this thread?

The theory that Madeline was abducted came straight from the McCann's and it is a hypothesis on which the entire private investigation is based.
 
Alex99 said:
I said before you searched it that the list was on the BBC website, yet you still replied with the Daily Mail and two other sites in an obvious attempt to discredit the list of questions as bollocks. Not scrolling to the second page doesn't make it look like you're deliberately misleading people, ignoring what someone says and replying with shite does.
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You told me to google it, I google it, I got shit results. feck all I can do about that.

Gossip hounds more than conspiracy nuts, although that was based on being accused of actually trying to mislead people because of the google result.
 
swooshboy said:
Why do you feel the need to act so superior to people in this thread?
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How you interpret my posts has feck all to do with me I'm afraid.

This thread is a joke, as are most on this subject, full of wild speculation and detailed 'gut feelings' about what may or may not have happened, which none of us know.
 
swooshboy said:
Why do you feel the need to act so superior to people in this thread?

The theory that Madeline was abducted came straight from the McCann's and it is a hypothesis on which the entire private investigation is based.
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I mean to add that if their whole belief is just an assumption, and a hypothesis...how can they be allowed to sue the police chief over his hypothesis?

Oops - I forgot to add a link for the quote from Clarence Mitchell that the investigation is based on an assumption and a hypothesis:

http://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t1...iew-with-radio-humberside-the-full-transcript

This is a transcript of an interview he gave - it looks as though there is a link to the actual episode on iplayer - but am not in the UK so can't access that.

The actual quote is about half way through the transcript, and is one of the sections highlighted in red.
 
Eyepopper said:
You told me to google it, I google it, I got shit results. feck all I can do about that.

Gossip hounds more than conspiracy nuts, although that was based on being accused of actually trying to mislead people because of the google result.
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I told you it was on the BBC website. You ignored that part both when searching and when selecting the links you presented just to try and discredit the list of questions. I've just googled "questions kate mccann refused to answer" and The Guardian is the 3rd result, with the BBC link appearing as the 7th result. I don't see how you can deny that you were trying to mislead people when you were told that the list was on the BBC, only to go and post links that weren't the BBC to try and make out that the only sources were shit.

Over the last page or two you've been the most hysterical of anyone. You've floated around accusing people of speculating whilst speculating yourself, denied that we know anything about the case when we clearly do, and constantly hounded people about being conspiracy nuts for having a theory that differs slightly to the McCann story of them being squeaky clean and acting perfectly rationally and normal.
 
SteveJ said:
If the McCanns were so certain from the start that Madeleine had been abducted, it suggests that they felt misgivings about her safety/dodgy people hanging around prior to the alleged event; the alternative is that Kate & co are psychic...ahem. More seriously, if we give them the benefit of the doubt and assume that the McCanns' misgivings were genuine, it begs the question why Madeline was left practically alone in the apartment given the McCanns' concerns.

Oh, and a word about the so-called conspiracy theories: no-one doubts that there are people who get a thrill from playing 'internet detective' in cases like these but, for most normal people, this is a tragic case no matter who might be responsible; many of us would rather believe that some criminal was responsible instead of Madeleine's parents being culpable in some way - neither of these choices are 'comfortable' but one is undoubtably preferable to the other. Who would ordinarily want to blame poor Madeleine's parents? They're strangers to us, we have no reason to dislike or wantonly accuse them of wrongdoing regardless of entirely subjective concerns over their public demeanour or social class or whatever. Their actions make people suspicious, not preconceptions about them as human beings: to put it crudely and briefly, a narrative of the McCanns' blamelessness has been created & this is nowhere near the same as a genuine & impartial consideration of the evidence. Ordinary people - not internet detectives, who'll surely move on to the next 'mass media mystery' eventually - would like to know the truth, and would like justice for Madeleine. In closing, there are solid reasons why so many people suspect the McCanns of not telling the whole truth, and this is because they have failed to convince that they've done so despite cautious newspaper coverage, governmental interference, PR spin & drop-of-the-hat litigiousness.
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Really good post.
 
Redlambs said:
Apparently they had the kids in a creche all day. You know, before putting them in bed and fecking off out. (Sorry Popper if I mentioned that again, but you know what? It was the cause of all this and I still don't see it as a 'footnote', I see it as the most major part and fact we know).


And I've said it quite a lot before now, and surely will again, but I'm not convinced the parents actually had anything to do with it but thank feck the police aren't stupid enough to rule them out like some have. The sad fact is until a body is recovered we simply won't know what happened. So nothing can be ruled out.

I've asked this before, but do we actually know who contacted the press that early? Because there's been some reports saying the parents did. Now unless the original police were that incompetent (and it seems they probably were), I thought that was a no-no? Because if she was still alive by that point, she sure as hell would have been killed the second her face was plastered all over the news :(
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Sound. I didnt realise she had been seen on the day.
 
Alex99 said:
I told you it was on the BBC website. You ignored that part both when searching and when selecting the links you presented just to try and discredit the list of questions. I've just googled "questions kate mccann refused to answer" and The Guardian is the 3rd result, with the BBC link appearing as the 7th result. I don't see how you can deny that you were trying to mislead people when you were told that the list was on the BBC, only to go and post links that weren't the BBC to try and make out that the only sources were shit.

Over the last page or two you've been the most hysterical of anyone. You've floated around accusing people of speculating whilst speculating yourself, denied that we know anything about the case when we clearly do, and constantly hounded people about being conspiracy nuts for having a theory that differs slightly to the McCann story of them being squeaky clean and acting perfectly rationally and normal.
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:lol: right mate, we'll leave it at that.

I've mentioned conspiracy twice, in the past few posts. To the best of my knowledge its the first time I mentioned it (although if I'm wrong I'm sure someone will prove it).
 
Have you got a source for the conspiracy theory that you haven't claimed we're all conspiracy theorists, Pops? :D
 
I can tell by Pops' body language that he doesn't have a source.
 
Oh come off it, the idea that the McCanns had anything to do with the disappearance of their daughter is complete and utter bullshit.

They deliberately had their own daughter abducted and then spent the next 6 years trying to raise as much awareness as possible to investigate the whole thing thoroughly and exhaustedly, involving huge numbers of police from two countries and plastering information about the event all over the world's media?

They'd have to have been criminal masterminds staging a double-double-double bluff or whatever to have pulled that off.

As for them 'milking it' - Jesus Christ. This is their daughter. I think most parents would have done absolutely everything they could to find their child. I don't begrudge them going to the press at all. I would have done exactly the same.
 
MG said:
Oh come off it, the idea that the McCanns had anything to do with the disappearance of their daughter is complete and utter bullshit.

They deliberately had their own daughter abducted and then spent the next 6 years trying to raise as much awareness as possible to investigate the whole thing thoroughly and exhaustedly, involving huge numbers of police from two countries and plastering information about the event all over the world's media?

They'd have to have been criminal masterminds staging a double-double-double bluff or whatever to have pulled that off.

As for them 'milking it' - Jesus Christ. This is their daughter. I think most parents would have done absolutely everything they could to find their child. I don't begrudge them going to the press at all. I would have done exactly the same.
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Such as searching for her?
 
MG said:
Oh come off it, the idea that the McCanns had anything to do with the disappearance of their daughter is complete and utter bullshit.

They deliberately had their own daughter abducted and then spent the next 6 years trying to raise as much awareness as possible to investigate the whole thing thoroughly and exhaustedly, involving huge numbers of police from two countries and plastering information about the event all over the world's media?

They'd have to have been criminal masterminds staging a double-double-double bluff or whatever to have pulled that off.

As for them 'milking it' - Jesus Christ. This is their daughter. I think most parents would have done absolutely everything they could to find their child. I don't begrudge them going to the press at all. I would have done exactly the same.
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That's a new one. I don't think anyone had suggested that angle mate!

Seriously no the main theory put forward by folk who question the abduction side of things is the accidental death of Maddy. Read back over the thread and you can see it. IMO the timeline doesnt fit for me and a skilled abduction looks the most likely scenario here but unfortunately until Maddy is recovered people will ask questions and there isn't anything wrong with that either.
 
Redlambs said:
Well at least we have all learned something today.

If it's not on page 1 of google, it's not a source.
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And that you're still arse sore about me saying they aren't guilty of neglect.
 
Redlambs said:
Why would that bother me?

Oh I see, only you can pop in and say random things. Sorry,I wasn't trying to steal your shtick...
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No idea, you keep bringing it up though.

They're not guilty of neglect you know, never even charged with it ;)
 
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