LV Monopoly Draft - R1: Onenil vs MJJ/Viva

With players at peaks, who will win the match?

  • Total voters
    25
  • Poll closed .
oneniltothearsenal said:
TBH I liked my version with Houseman a lot better and unfortunately I dropped him when I shouldn't have.

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Not sure I understand what you are trying to do with that midfield trio there.

That said, I agree re: Houseman. When I looked at your final 14 and the strikethroughs I wondered why you didn't just drop Zizinho as Houseman better suited your setup and would work a charm with El Diego.

A shame really as he could do with a good outing in a draft.
 
Gio said:
I've got two issues here. One is to what extent Kroos will be marooned at the base of that midfield or will Breitner be coming in and supporting more often than not? Second is the use of Irwin and Sagnol when (a) onenil has no real attacking width, and (b) Scirea is on the bench.
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Good point. Actually, Passarella could have played as leftback in a similar role to Breitner's. I'd keep Irwin as the sole proper fullback.
 
oneniltothearsenal said:
I agree with both of you. The approach I was originally going for, you can see in my Houseman tactic. 'Vegas' put me on tilt though and I lost my original approach :wenger:
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yeah Houseman on the right with Breitner in midfield would generally give you better outline in terms of balance methinks.

You kicked it off great with your first 5-6 picks IMO but were really unfortunate in the end of the drafting.

oneniltothearsenal said:
I always thought that was due to Italy and Serie A to some degree being underrated in that period before their World Cup win.

West Germany and Holland were the sexy sides that everyone talked about and in club competition English clubs were just dominant in the old European Cup in that era. I don't think any Serie A club made the European cup final for a decade from '72 to that '82 Italia win. So I just think most people or popularity in that era was focused on other nations. Plus this was before widespread TV so the Americas weren't as familiar with Serie A sides as they would become over the 80s when so many started to migrate to Italy. At least in my memory that Italy win in '82 had a lot of interesting side effects.
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Yes, that played a part but still even during that time and Scirea's best years he was missed in those personal awards while his teammates were getting more appreciation - regardless of the position as well.
 
Enigma_87 said:
Breitner just has to come in midfield for me. Even with the current instructions you have him tucking in which gives no attacking width whatsoever and will be more appreciated in midfield.
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To be honest. I really like the use of Breitner here. feck width, get Suárez to provide it.

Yes, onenil's midfield could do with more dedicated beef (upgrade Kroos then), but the thought of that anarchic Breitner in a side sporting Maradona is a wet dream.

No, don't tell me he can offer some form of B2B Breitdona, his 74 persona + El Diego would send the most organised defences into complete chaos in a way the usual draft accummulation of fancy #10s doesn't.

It's completely unpredictable and would produce several "WTF?" moments.
 
Tuppet said:
I think Baresi is rated generally higher because he was the de facto leader of Sachhi's Milan's defense, which was a thing of beauty and was truly revolutionary like 70s Ajax. Probably much harder to pull off as well from the zona mista deep defense of Juve.
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That's a fair point actually. My grandfather was never overly impressed with Scirea or that 1982 defence in an all-time context as he reckoned it was easy for a defence to look good when the entire setup and strategy was defensive. That discussion was revisited time and again to no avail, amud rants on how Nasazzi and Da Guia could face 4-5 attackers, chew them up and spit them out.

He did concede after the 94 Final that maybe I was right and Baresi was up there with the best.

So you know where the stubborn feck attitude comes from.
 
Aldo said:
In terms of club career - so did Scirea. Don't think there's anything between them when it comes to defensive performances during their club careers and like I mentioned, when they both played against the standout performer of their era - one very clearly came ahead.

Would also say that Scirea had a longer peak than Baresi.

In terms of International career I don't think there's any argument on who had the better one. Baresi had a fine WC in 1990 but it isn't marshalling your defense against the likes of Maradona and Zico and going on to win it.
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Agree with the premise of what you're saying regarding their relative standing. That said I'm not sure that Scirea had a markedly better international career: they're both right up there. Baresi's 1990 tournament was flawless in a way I've not seen from anyone since, bar Cannavaro and possibly Gamarra. And he did face Maradona in the semi-final. Then a great job on Romario's Brazil in the 1994 final. Not a lot of quality apart from that granted, but Zico and Socrates tied Italy in all sorts of knots in 1982, so I don't think it's an issue with the quality they faced. It's longevity as you say earlier that works in Scirea's favour who obviously has two great tournaments in 1982 and 1980 to his name, and good performances as far as I'm aware elsewhere (1978 in particular).
 
Tuppet said:
I think Baresi is rated generally higher because he was the de facto leader of Sachhi's Milan's defense, which was a thing of beauty and was truly revolutionary like 70s Ajax. Probably much harder to pull off as well from the zona mista deep defense of Juve.

Baresi was also rated higher among his peers in his own time as can be seen from the Ballon D'or ratings, where he finished 8th, 2nd and 5th in 3 years, while Scirea appearing once at 18th in 82. There is not much between them though.
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Agree with this - the leaders of the handful of elite progressive sides who made that stepchange to move the game forward will always get extra kudos.
 
oneniltothearsenal said:
I always thought that was due to Italy and Serie A to some degree being underrated in that period before their World Cup win.

West Germany and Holland were the sexy sides that everyone talked about and in club competition English clubs were just dominant in the old European Cup in that era. I don't think any Serie A club made the European cup final for a decade from '72 to that '82 Italia win. So I just think most people or popularity in that era was focused on other nations. Plus this was before widespread TV so the Americas weren't as familiar with Serie A sides as they would become over the 80s when so many started to migrate to Italy. At least in my memory that Italy win in '82 had a lot of interesting side effects.
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You are right. Back in Uruguay we didn't get Serie A or La Liga until the 80s. Instead we had the Polish League Bundesliga.
 
antohan said:
It's completely unpredictable and would produce several "WTF?" moments.
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Yeah :lol:
To think that a left back scored that goal


And against absolutely flawless Chilean defence marshaled by Figueroa no less
 
antohan said:
Not sure I understand what you are trying to do with that midfield trio there.

That said, I agree re: Houseman. When I looked at your final 14 and the strikethroughs I wondered why you didn't just drop Zizinho as Houseman better suited your setup and would work a charm with El Diego.

A shame really as he could do with a good outing in a draft.
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It was just a working version before I fleshed out the draft. I would have slotted Breitner into LB if I got the right later round picks anyway and Verratti was always intended to be a drop placeholder. I meant more just to highlight how I originally envisioned Houseman, Maradona and Ronaldo working together. Have been annoyed with myself that I dropped him for a while. I really loved my original concept of rebels like Maradona, Breitner, Houseman playing together with a hardman like Materazzi or Gentile but I got taken away from a bit.
 
Enigma_87 said:
yeah Houseman on the right with Breitner in midfield would generally give you better outline in terms of balance methinks.

You kicked it off great with your first 5-6 picks IMO but were really unfortunate in the end of the drafting.

Yes, that played a part but still even during that time and Scirea's best years he was missed in those personal awards while his teammates were getting more appreciation - regardless of the position as well.
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Yeah the way this draft unfolded I never drafted the midfield I first wanted for Diego and Breitner and Ronaldo. I ended up going for midfield with picks that I didn't want to and try to move things around. I really wanted two compete all arounders that can play holding or a unique man marker free role on defense like Gentile to go with Houseman. I just messed up my original concept.
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
Well, that no place for a left back to be in :lol:
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That's the beauty of it! If he starts in midfield someone in midfield has his number. As it is, they are all worried about Diego and suddenly they all start screaming "Oi, who's on the caveman?" only to realise he is Garrincha's man.
 
Downcast said:
@oneniltothearsenal

Verratti is on your bench?
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Dropped. I'd have to actually go back and look at the draft thread as so many drops and sacrifice to remember how it happened.

antohan said:
That's the beauty of it! If he starts in midfield someone in midfield has his number. As it is, they are all worried about Diego and suddenly they all start screaming "Oi, who's on the caveman?" only to realise he is Garrincha's man.
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That's more or less what I meant in my write about Breitner starting on the left and making Garrincha think thats who he is up against but then its actually Gentile charging in being the cnut and Breitner gets to cause havok.
 
antohan said:
That's the beauty of it! If he starts in midfield someone in midfield has his number. As it is, they are all worried about Diego and suddenly they all start screaming "Oi, who's on the caveman?" only to realise he is Garrincha's man.
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Yup, definitely the best part of his game as a left back. He found space to make runs in to so consistently as he simply had no natural marker against him because his style was so chaotic. He'd be picked up by a marker out wide and all of a sudden he was making a run straight towards goal or on the right side of the pitch finding space. It must have been a constant headache for the opponents with him and Beckenbauer both providing that unpredictable aspect to that German side.
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
Well, that no place for a left back to be in :lol:
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My point exactly. It's not that he had a hell of a shot on him, many did, but his positioning :lol: Enormously entertaining player to watch, a libero from a left back position
 
I don't think the team sheet is a big issue. Gentile takes his reference from Garrincha, not the team sheet.
 
antohan said:
That's the beauty of it! If he starts in midfield someone in midfield has his number. As it is, they are all worried about Diego and suddenly they all start screaming "Oi, who's on the caveman?" only to realise he is Garrincha's man.
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I get what you're saying but a wild card is not something you base your game on. He has so many players capable of doing stuff in the middle already. I don't see total football from onenils team tbh!

Blanchflower will run this game freely without any interference. With Edwards and Irwin its be equally advantageous on the other flank.
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
I get what you're saying but a wild card is not something you base your game on. He has so many players capable of doing stuff in the middle already. I don't see total football from onenils team tbh!

Blanchflower will run this game freely without any interference. With Edwards and Irwin its be equally advantageous on the other flank.
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I am not basing my game on a "wild card". I am basing my tactic on the direct attack of Maradona, Ronaldo and Suarez. Maybe counterattacking was the wrong choice and I should have just said direct attacking but there is no basing my game on a wild card. Breitner simply is a wild card. Thats not what the tactic is built around. Its built around solid man marking covered by players like Lucio and lightning quick direct attacks based around movement, pace, technique of Maradona, Ronaldo and Suarez assisted by others such as Breitner and Zizinho simply attacking the goal.

I can appreciate if you don't think Zizinho is the correct choice or that mjj set-up is superior or that I'd be better served with say Prohaska and Houseman for instance but to say my tactic is based on a wild card is just not accurate representation of my intent here.
 
antohan said:
IF we are talking pure fantasy, Scirea would marshall the defence and Daniel would limit himself to being Nesta. He would make a great Nesta impersonation. Truth is he wouldn't play ball IMO.
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Interesting thought. The problem with all the draft junkies here is that they see things really one dimensional(see the bottom answer to Gio) so as you said it's a discussion I rather wanted to avoid. Got a very different one about the same couple of players anyway so I guess no avoiding those in these drafts.

antohan said:
They don't fundamentally alter your gameplan though. It's more worrying for you that he was wrong in Scirea's case and possibly Cashley (Irwin should have started on the right)
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I don't know. A team based around Law as the frontman and a team based on Drogba as the frontman play differently so I reckon it would be different. As for Irwin, as we chose to play Daniel as LCB, Irwin always seemed to me the more reliable option than Cashley.

Gio said:
I don't think the team sheet is a big issue. Gentile takes his reference from Garrincha, not the team sheet.
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While I don't agree with how easily people portray Gentile's job against the mighty Garrincha, I really agree with this point. People look at these draft teamsheets so narrowly and don't leave any room to give these top players the benefit of the doubt for their footballing brain. Obviously if Breitner bombs forward Gentile won't leave that LB area in a void because he's place on the teamsheet is a DM. In an actual match these things are far more flexible than portrayed by the draft junkie community.
 
It was evident when the discussion turned to compare all-time great defenders but the game is over. Unlucky couple of rolls for @oneniltothearsenal did their job although he still had some nice things going for his team.
 
harms said:
It was evident when the discussion turned to compare all-time great defenders but the game is over. Unlucky couple of rolls for @oneniltothearsenal did their job although he still had some nice things going for his team.
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Wait, what? Isn't @oneniltothearsenal through on the back of an illegal move by his rivals? A bit like when someone was winning a game easily and made a pointless sub to give a player a run around. The managerial equivalent of showboating... only to fall foul of the rules on how many could be from a specific region or country.

That was hilarious, same should apply here :p @Edgar Allan Pillow
 
antohan said:
Wait, what? Isn't @oneniltothearsenal through on the back of an illegal move by his rivals? A bit like when someone was winning a game easily and made a pointless sub to give a player a run around. The managerial equivalent of showboating... only to fall foul of the rules on how many could be from a specific region or country.

That was hilarious, same should apply here :p @Edgar Allan Pillow
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Why are you trying to get your lover killed? :D
 
Tbf I wouldn't be against it, it was a clear violation of the rules and they haven't got any penalty for starting Passarella ahead of Scirea :lol:

But I always argue for a stricter set of rules while people on here prefer softer approach
 
It's not an actual violation, is it? Tried to sub Scirea on - was told it can't be done.

They can't possibly have benefited from it in any way.
 
On a general note, though, we should get a little stricter round here. People generally get away with too much.

I stress that the above doesn't apply to this particular case - but in general we could do with a harder line, IMO. It's good for the entertainment part too - strict rulings lead to meltdowns.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
On a general note, though, we should get a little stricter round here. People generally get away with too much.

I stress that the above doesn't apply to this particular case - but in general we could do with a harder line, IMO. It's good for the entertainment part too - strict rulings lead to meltdowns.
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They were lucky they had a soft mod like EAP running this while they made constant invalid picks. No changing picks once posted, no exceptions either.
 
Aldo said:
They were lucky they had a soft mod like EAP running this while they made constant invalid picks. No changing picks once posted, no exceptions either.
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Yeah, that was something else. Most seemed to think they were doing it on purpose after a while.

But, seriously, that sort of thing - can't have that, really. In this draft, which was always more light hearted, fair enough - but in a regular one, no.

It's simply a matter of actually enforcing pretty standard rules - you pick, it stands, and that's that. Don't pick unless you're sure - and if you feck up, that's part of the game.
 
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