[criticalanalysis]

That was a beautiful shot on his weaker foot for the 3rd goal.

Other then that not much to write home about.

I said it in the match day thread.

Two consecutive right footed shots from our two most one-footed, left footed players in Shaw and Antony. Crazy sequence of play.

 

[OmarUnited4ever]

He certainly looked slow but let's see if this is just the rust of being out for so long, hopefully he gets back as we are desperate for his presence even if he does nothing much, him and Martinez allow the team to progress the ball a bit easier.

 

[criticalanalysis]

He certainly looked slow but let's see if this is just the rust of being out for so long, hopefully he gets back as we are desperate for his presence even if he does nothing much, him and Martinez allow the team to progress the ball a bit easier.

I think everybody needs to realistically temper their expectations with Shaw. He's not the same player anymore, who can make sprints from deep and take on multiple players with 3-4 strides. That probably only happens about once or twice a game. He's constantly on his heels when pressed and will more times than not return the ball back to players in awkward situations.

I said it before, he was probably our best player against West Ham where we lost and I was seriously impressed with his athleticism as I hadn't see it for a long time. What happened afterwards? He was injured 'for a minor issue' as reported and has been out until yesterday, a whole month. He may have a second wind and finish the season strongly but I won't be holding my breath.

 

[OmarUnited4ever]

I think everybody needs to realistically temper their expectations with Shaw. He's not the same player anymore, who can make sprints from deep and take on multiple players with 3-4 strides. That probably only happens about once or twice a game. He's constantly on his heels when pressed and will more times than not return the ball back to players in awkward situations.

I said it before, he was probably our best player against West Ham where we lost and I was seriously impressed with his athleticism as I hadn't see it for a long time. What happened afterwards? He was injured 'for a minor issue' as reported and has been out until yesterday, a whole month. He may have a second wind and finish the season strongly but I won't be holding my breath.

Agreed and as I said even if he doesn't do much attacking wise he is still excellent in progressing the ball alongside Martinez which we need, Dalot and AWB can't do what Shaw does on the ball from deep.

 

[criticalanalysis]

Agreed and as I said even if he doesn't do much attacking wise he is still excellent in progressing the ball alongside Martinez which we need, Dalot and AWB can't do what Shaw does on the ball from deep.

People may have different views to me on this but whilst Shaw 100% has the capability, I think his actual output in playing out from the back is incredibly inconsistent and he gets way more props that he deserves imo.

There are games where he plays majestically with cute first time touches, opens up his body and carries the ball centrally to open up passing angles but on average this doesn't really happen. He has a tendency to stand on his heels when pressed and is severely one footed, so his first touch usually ends up with him needing to pass the ball back where it came. If I had to give a specific technical example, he doesn't take the ball on the half turn and his body angle to receive a pass is often poor/lazy.

There are times, where if he doesn't get help with an easy outlet pass or one-two, he will take toe-push-pass a ball for someone to receive in an awkwardly. In the opposition half, he's clutch with crosses and interplays, I'll give him that but in our own half, depending on which Shaw turns up, I don't 'trust' him to be reliably progressive out from the back. Granted, that's still better than AWB and Dalot at left back but that's besides the point. Martinez is number one of course but Dalot (despite his numerous brainfarts) is comfortably, er, our second most 'comfortable' player when playing out from deep.

I'm not saying he's a 'bad' player but I'm critical because I know he's capable.

 

[Hughes35]

Become more of a LCB under EtH. I think it makes sense considering his type of body, amount of injuries and age.

He's 28

 

[OmarUnited4ever]

People may have different views to me on this but whilst Shaw 100% has the capability, I think his actual output in playing out from the back is incredibly inconsistent and he gets way more props that he deserves imo.

There are games where he plays majestically with cute first time touches, opens up his body and carries the ball centrally to open up passing angles but on average this doesn't really happen. He has a tendency to stand on his heels when pressed and is severely one footed, so his first touch usually ends up with him needing to pass the ball back where it came. If I had to give a specific technical example, he doesn't take the ball on the half turn and his body angle to receive a pass is often poor/lazy.

There are times, where if he doesn't get help with an easy outlet pass or one-two, he will take toe-push-pass a ball for someone to receive in an awkwardly. In the opposition half, he's clutch with crosses and interplays, I'll give him that but in our own half, depending on which Shaw turns up, I don't 'trust' him to be reliably progressive out from the back. Granted, that's still better than AWB and Dalot at left back but that's besides the point. Martinez is number one of course but Dalot (despite his numerous brainfarts) is comfortably, er, our second most 'comfortable' player when playing out from deep.

I'm not saying he's a 'bad' player but I'm critical because I know he's capable.

Can't disagree with a lot of what you said, but as we know Shaw is capable and he should do a lot more, I think some of the issues are tactical/structural where Shaw is usually in a tight angle with not so many great passing options near him and is forced to either go back or go the riskier long route, Dalot also seems to have the same issue on the other flank at times but I see Antony, despite his direness, comes down to offer a passing outlet to Dalot.

 

[Bondi77]

Why we played our best player in a Cup game against League 2 opposition is beyond me.

 

[andersj]

He's 28

29 this year. And he has played since football since he was 17-18. That is different for a footballer with his build compared to someone like Giggs.

He once compared his type of body to Wayne Rooney. Look at his decline physically around the same age.

 

[Hughes35]

29 this year. And he has played since football since he was 17-18. That is different for a footballer with his build compared to someone like Giggs.

He once compared his type of body to Wayne Rooney. Look at his decline physically around the same age.

Or look at Antonio Valencia..... I don't necessarily disagree with you by the way. I'd just love to see all the club fitness data etc. 28 is no age for a footballer these days. Yes his body type doesn't always mean longevity but it also doesn't always mean he will be on the scrap heap by 30.

Oh and the "He's 29 this year". It's January 30th. Nearly everybody in the world is a year older this year unless you've already had your birthday. He's 28.

 

[Buster15]

He's 28

Well if he is 28, his legs must have gone....

 

[Gordon S]

28 is no age for a footballer these days

What does this mean?
Players seem to pickup injuries more and more these days, injuries that makes it difficult to maintain a good physical level.
It just doesn’t seem easier at all for players to have long careers at the highest level?

 

[Rossa]

29 this year. And he has played since football since he was 17-18. That is different for a footballer with his build compared to someone like Giggs.

He once compared his type of body to Wayne Rooney. Look at his decline physically around the same age.

Rooney was shot because he didn't take care of himself. Only way that should happen to Shaw is if he lets himself go the same way Rooney did.

Look at how Martinez came back after injury - he looks to have worked on his strength to great extent, and even looks a little faster covering distance. Shaw always looks to carry a few extra pounds after coming back from injury. Then he plays a few good matches and looks leaner - it's a mindset thing.

Antonio Valencia is actually a good shout - great fitness. Lost some speed after that horrific injury, but at 33-34 he was still an immense athlete. I rememeber Jesus Navas ripping Shaw a new one a few years ago, just running past him for fun. Then Navas changed flanks, and he didn't even try with Valencia... Even in his physical prime, Shaw struggled on the first few yards. I never understood those who argued he was quicker than Evra - not even close.

Shaw has absolutely brilliant close control - arguably the best first touch in the squad. His short passing is sublime, and he's very good at bringing the ball out from the back. His athleticism is a concern, though - sometimes good, but often struggling.

 

[Rossa]

What does this mean?
Players seem to pickup injuries more and more these days, injuries that makes it difficult to maintain a good physical level.
It just doesn’t seem easier at all for players to have long careers at the highest level?

Robben and Giggs both had lots of injuries in their youth, but both were able to be great after 30 because they took care of their bodies. It all depends.

 

[Gordon S]

Robben and Giggs both had lots of injuries in their youth, but both were able to be great after 30 because they took care of their bodies. It all depends.

Yes, the bolded part is key here, it just depends. Some players play well until they reach their 40s, despite playing tons of games, despite a taxing playing style, despite some injuries. And other players are more or less done at this level at 28, for whatever reasons. Wazzas performances started to drop a level or two at that age, Michael Owen was done ar 28. The old ”He is only xx ffs” argument that is used a lot on here is a rather crap argument unfortunately.
I have no idea if Shaw is really done at this level or not, but it wouldn’t be out of this world crazy if he were.

 

[Rossa]

Yes, the bolded part is key here, it just depends. Some players play well until they reach their 40s, despite playing tons of games, despite a taxing playing style, despite some injuries. And other players are more or less done at this level at 28, for whatever reasons. Wazzas performances started to drop a level or two at that age, Michael Owen was done ar 28. The old ”He is only xx ffs” argument that is used a lot on here is a rather crap argument unfortunately.
I have no idea if Shaw is really done at this level or not, but it wouldn’t be out of this world crazy if he were.

This is just my two cents, but I think some of it is a natual physical decline, but that's normally not quite as abrupt as many people on the CAF would have you believe. You don't fall off a cliff physically at 30. It's a very gradual downward slope, and you can compensate with better training and food, for instance. Then there's the mental aspect - if you've played football at a high level since you were 16-17, you hit some heights, but you never truly became quite what you hoped - do you have the motivation at 30 to redesign your training regime, your diet, your life outside football to improve further or just keep your level for as long as you can. That takes a great deal of dedication, hard work and discipline. If your heart's not in it, it may prove too difficult.

To me, it looks like Shaw has all the talent in the world, but his application of said talent seems inconsistent - not bad, but inconsistent. At times he looks very fit and his game reflects it. At other times he's by no means overweight (that's silly for a professional footballer), but even a pound or two extra can mean the world when accelerating, for stamina and for avoiding injuries.

 

[Hughes35]

What does this mean?
Players seem to pickup injuries more and more these days, injuries that makes it difficult to maintain a good physical level.
It just doesn’t seem easier at all for players to have long careers at the highest level?

Footballers are playing longer, average age of a professional footballer is going up.

Everybody knows players are fitter now, lasting long, better nutrition etc. Have a google, loads of data online.

 

[Gordon S]

Footballers are playing longer, average age of a professional footballer is going up.

Everybody knows players are fitter now, lasting long, better nutrition etc. Have a google, loads of data online.

I’ve seen some of that online, yes. It might be true. But just doesn`t seem like it.

We’ve seen our fair share of players here around 30 look like 40 something. Rooney, Schweinsteiger, Sanchez, Eriksen, Casemiro. On top of that we have an injury crisis every year. It might just be me but there isn`t much that signals to me that this current lot of players are streets ahead of the older guard in terms of fitness.

 

[criticalanalysis]

Can't disagree with a lot of what you said, but as we know Shaw is capable and he should do a lot more, I think some of the issues are tactical/structural where Shaw is usually in a tight angle with not so many great passing options near him and is forced to either go back or go the riskier long route, Dalot also seems to have the same issue on the other flank at times but I see Antony, despite his direness, comes down to offer a passing outlet to Dalot.

I mean yeah overall, the shite play is absolutely mostly on ETH and his lack of coaching and the tactical platform for the players to perform. However, on an individual level, Shaw is not great as receiving the ball with his back to goal, not particularly comfortable in the half spaces, doesn't engage when pressed a lot (e.g wants to return it back) and as I've said, his lazy first touch puts him in really bad angles. Dalot with or without Antony has the stride, athleticism and confidence to take the ball in tighter spaces and will more times than not get it out in a more progressive area either through himself or to a teammate.

There's a reason Shaw's been quite comfortable as a stand in centre back and that's because he's got more easier passing options out wide, he plays with the ball in front of him 99% of the time and he knows his recovery pace is only need once every 10-30 minutes as opposed 5-10 as a fullback (numbers just to provide context).

I don't want to call anyone out but someone has already said Shaw's short passing is sublime, when that's simply not true. Martinez despite the small sample has been sublime. Shaw is far too inconsistent for that.

 

[OptimisedRed]

Good performance today. Elevated Rashford and did well defensively for the most part. His timing was spot on.

 

[Alemar]

Good assist today.

 

[Irwin99]

I thought he played really well tonight. Linked with Rashford well and kept pushing forward.

 

[arthurka]

Sorry I thought he was really poor, didn't block many crosses in second half and looks heavy and sluggish.

 

[Red Royal]

Last 15 minutes spoiled what was a good comeback from injury

 

[Cutch]

Thought he was very good. Excellent link up with Rashford and we look far better at keeping ball and controlling a game with him and Martinez along side eachother and more technical midfielders around them

 

[The Cat]

Sorry I thought he was really poor, didn't block many crosses in second half and looks heavy and sluggish.

He's back on the Lucozade and Fifa day long sessions by the look of it.

 

[Belisarius]

I thought he was class. I was also impressed he was still making attacking runs at the end after 100 minutes. I do worry he'll get injured again if AWB or Malacia don't return soon so we can spell him at the end of games.

 

[criticalanalysis]

Good 1st half, got tired and out of position for most of the 2nd half. Then finished the last 10-15 better.

I'd give him a pass as it's his second game after injury but same Shaw as we've known as before really.

 

[Amar__]

Average player in most of the games these days(or throughout games), with few flashes now and then.

Really slow getting back to his position, Casemiro got yellow early in the game for his mistake, and he wasn't bothered to run back at full speed for their third goal, he could have doubled Neto and he couldn't really care, they all outrun him, terrible mentality as always.

 

[Jeffthered]

By some distance Luke Shaw is our best full back. He is important to our team, experienced and provides some good quality. However, he is someone who needs to be managed well, he can let himself go a bit, mentally and physically.

Again, is ETH getting the best out of Luke Shaw? Of course not. Because ETH doesn't get the best out of any, any of his squad.

 

[Cnaiür urs Skiötha]

Not his best game but still good. He is great on the ball. I hope he stays fit and Malacia comes back and turns out to be a decent backup.

 

[Pronewbie]

Understood his role better and appears hungry to do well (for now). Was a deer in headlights before his injury like most of our players, despite having to play a pivotal role in the build-up. Now everyone seems more aware of where to be in the build-up phase. Can do better defensively though I'd pin that on the collective.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

So good in those last 10 minutes, when we needed him most.

 

[Oranges038]

Good performance.

Rashford needs that overlap on the outside and they combined really well for a few good chances. Tired a bit in the second half and finished the game well.

But those forward runs down the outside are key to that left side being effective. And stretching teams, especially when the ball is shifted from left to right quickly.

Hopefully he can stay fit, one game a week should help him in this regard.

 

[Solius]

Thought he was excellent. He’s like a brick wall when he defends like that and he’s so reliable in possession.

 

[pseudo_canadian]

I think he’s our best defender. Needs to retire here, great player.

 

[Hercules]

Shaw is so underrated here, does everything right, can run, defend and helps in the attack. One of the best LBs in the league.

 

[OT_United]

With Malacia returning soon, I wouldn't be against the idea of Shaw taking Licha's place at CB.
Dalot - Varane/Maguire - Shaw - Malacia

 

[Solius]

With Malacia returning soon, I wouldn't be against the idea of Shaw taking Licha's place at CB.
Dalot - Varane/Maguire - Shaw - Malacia

Pull the other one.

 

[romufc]

Shaw is so underrated here, does everything right, can run, defend and helps in the attack. One of the best LBs in the league.

Massively underrated. Alot of our fans dont like him from the Jose days but whenever we have played our best football, he is key to it. Definitely, one of the best LB in the league.