[DWelbz19]

I gained the weight he lost

Thanks for your sacrifice.

He's England's best midfielder as well. He's the closest thing they've got to a progressive passer.

I’ve wanted him to play midfield for us for some time in the double pivot. We finally have another left back so who knows. If casemiro kicks on, the two of them or if Scott continues to play the way he is playing Shaw makes a good partner there.

Considering ten Hag has set up our fullbacks to be quite narrow and play centrally in the build-up, rather than overlapping, Shaw really should be perfect for that type of set-up. We just need him to cut the laziness and lack of awareness across the line from his game when being caught up the pitch, but more importantly, stay fully fit.

 

[Bondi77]

There does seem to be an anti-English/British sentiment in my opinion. The likes of Shaw, Maguire, AWB, Rashford and McTominay (Scottish, I know) have taken dogs abuse and called all sorts of names over the last two seasons, whilst very poor/non-existent performers like Eric Bailly, Anthony Martial, Donny van de Beek, Fred and Diogo Dalot seem to enjoy large pockets of support and are generally seen in a favourable light and/or portrayed as having being treated unfairly.

To be clear....I wouldn't say it's malicious or based in xenophobia/racism at all, I just think there are a few factors behind this...

1) We have a global fanbase. Many of our non-British forum members will naturally rate their league/'their' players higher than non-natives. Plus there is the natural tribalism that comes with supporting sports team i.e. "our lot are better than your lot".
2) Many posters seem to feel that English players get an easy ride in the press*
3) English football fans/media are generally perceived by non-English football fans to be arrogant/deluded - 'it's coming home', 'best league in the World' etc...and therefore have a general dislike of English football/players/supporters/press
4) The club seemed to openly pursue a policy of signing British players under Solskjaer, which led to some supporters labelling us 'Brexit FC'. It was perceived by many that Ole favoured the British players and therefore as Ole's popularity waned, this was used as a stick to beat him.
5) Certain individuals have fuelled the fire by claiming English players are preferred at United, despite there being little to no evidence for this (Eric Bailly)

There are definitely other factors at play here and it's a controversial subject for sure...but it does seem to me like some posters want certain players to fail, and I find that bizarre.

*on the point about the British press...I would say I strongly disagree that British players are treated favourably. I would say that the British press do love to build a player up quickly but then they love to tear them back down twice as fast!

Any poster that is anti-British would have to be pretty stupid following a British club but it takes all sorts I suppose.

 

[Bebestation]

That's exacly the point

Theres difference between a slow agility like a slug and no agility like a fridge.

That’s why it’s bullying - it’s not even realistic for a man to be a fridge compared a man to be an animal.

 

[Aint gota Kalou]

One of the most frustrating players. All the ability but lacks the mentality over a long time period. I hope he gets back to his best as when he's there he's a brilliant full back.

 

[little.triangles]

Theres difference between a slow agility like a slug and no agility like a fridge.

That’s why it’s bullying - it’s not even realistic for a man to be a fridge compared a man to be an animal.

 

[Scottynaldinho]

Many would be taking egg on the face when he'll be the mainstay at that leftback position. He's miles ahead of Malacia it's not even debatable.

Can't wait him to replace Malacia, the only obvious weakness in the defense.

Said this almost a month ago and got called a WUM.

 

[No Idea For Nickname]

 

[little.triangles]

Said this almost a month ago and got called a WUM.

Yes, a lot a changed since then, hasn't it?

 

[red_de_pologne]

Like that from Luke, wish Harry could speak this way sometimes.

 

[OmarUnited4ever]

Happy to see Shaw admitting that he was not good enough and Ten Hag was right in benching him, now it's up to him to fight back for his spot, Malacia won't give it up easily

 

[Sylar]

Good way to see it. It's a bit disappointing though that he needs to be dropped or to have competition to know what levels are required

Hopefully he keeps at it though because we will need to use him when there's a fixture pileup before the world cup. A game every three days and him and malacia switching will do both some good

 

[little.triangles]

Good way to see it. It's a bit disappointing though that he needs to be dropped or to have competition to know what levels are required

Hopefully he keeps at it though because we will need to use him when there's a fixture pileup before the world cup. A game every three days and him and malacia switching will do both some good

To be fair, many players are like this. It is the job of a club and manager to create internal competition. EtH is changing the culture of complacency that Ole ended up creating.

 

[Glorio]

Good way to see it. It's a bit disappointing though that he needs to be dropped or to have competition to know what levels are required

Hopefully he keeps at it though because we will need to use him when there's a fixture pileup before the world cup. A game every three days and him and malacia switching will do both some good

Plus if push comes to shove, Malacia can also play on the right, even if Dalot is not in the mood to move over for anyone

 

[arthurka]

So he needed a new manager to see he wasn't at a good enough level. But ok good to see him owning up to it.

 

[Oldyella]

He always seems a sensible bloke whenever he talks to the press, and very self aware. Makes it even more strange he can't seem to stay on top of his fitness and let's things slide.

 

[devilish]

Yep - hope he has a strong WC and a good showing in his appearances for us, however limited they may be.

Not sure where he would actually go though. Big 6 all have good LB options. And would Luke let himself go to a non big 6 team? He might have a future at Newcastle anyway.

Luke Shaw's career is tragic. When we signed him up he was considered one of the most promising LB in the world, a guy who had the skills of a modern FB and the physicality of the typical English defender. Then he came at United, he picked a long term injury and he was poorly coached (LVG had no idea how EPL works, Mou had as much patience with kids as a Jewish man would have with a Nazi sympathiser and Ole was no coach).

Having said that the talent is there to be seen. I am a Shaw out and even I can admire his performances against Italy and Germany. Which makes you wonder. Why is he not consistent? What's wrong with Shaw?

In my opinion the issue is down to mentality. Some players are simply not cut to play with top clubs. Taibi for example was fecking majestic at Piacenza. He was so good that he forced Milan to buy him back much to the humiliation of those who sold him in the first place. Once back he was horrific and they sold him off to Venezia were his form returned. We all know what happened after that and how it ended. This is not necessarily about talent or attitude but it could be a case of mentality. For example Roby Baggio was that sort of player as well. If you ask me Baggio was the best mezza punta I've ever saw playing, way better then the likes of Cantona, Del Piero or Totti and yet at top club level the guy would simply go bonkers. He would struggle in a team were he wasn't the only star player and his paranoia would go into overdrive as he would interpret each decision made as the manager's attempt to undermine him. I fear that this paranoia was due to the way he was raised (his father/role model was a disciplinarian who would treat his children the same and who genuinely struggled to praise his children no matter what they achieved. This created a scenario of discrimination towards Roby who felt that his achievements (balon d'or, goals etc) were never good enough for his father.

If you ask me I won't be surprise to see Luke Shaw flourish at an outside 6 EPL club. On top of that he's still 27, he's English (thus homegrown) and he's got ample experience at this level. At 30m I think he could become a coup signing for the likes of Leicester, Newcastle or even in Italy (Juve, Inter etc)

 

[iHicksy]

Luke Shaw's career is tragic. When we signed him up he was considered one of the most promising LB in the world, a guy who had the skills of a modern FB and the physicality of the typical English defender. Then he came at United, he picked a long term injury and he was poorly coached (LVG had no idea how EPL works, Mou had as much patience with kids as a Jewish man would have with a Nazi sympathiser and Ole was no coach).

Shaw was having his best season under LvG before his leg break and looked insanely good so this part is just nonsense. Shaw's issue has and always will be his mentality. If you get a manager that can constantly motivate him the way he needs then he can be great. I'd argue that you want players at United who are strong enough mentally to motivate themselves however. Otherwise it's a constant battle.

 

[Bebestation]

Luke Shaw's career is tragic. When we signed him up he was considered one of the most promising LB in the world, a guy who had the skills of a modern FB and the physicality of the typical English defender. Then he came at United, he picked a long term injury and he was poorly coached (LVG had no idea how EPL works, Mou had as much patience with kids as a Jewish man would have with a Nazi sympathiser and Ole was no coach).

Having said that the talent is there to be seen. I am a Shaw out and even I can admire his performances against Italy and Germany. Which makes you wonder. Why is he not consistent? What's wrong with Shaw?

In my opinion the issue is down to mentality. Some players are simply not cut to play with top clubs. Taibi for example was fecking majestic at Piacenza. He was so good that he forced Milan to buy him back much to the humiliation of those who sold him in the first place. Once back he was horrific and they sold him off to Venezia were his form returned. We all know what happened after that and how it ended. This is not necessarily about talent or attitude but it could be a case of mentality. For example Roby Baggio was that sort of player as well. If you ask me Baggio was the best mezza punta I've ever saw playing, way better then the likes of Cantona, Del Piero or Totti and yet at top club level the guy would simply go bonkers. He would struggle in a team were he wasn't the only star player and his paranoia would go into overdrive as he would interpret each decision made as the manager's attempt to undermine him. I fear that this paranoia was due to the way he was raised (his father/role model was a disciplinarian who would treat his children the same and who genuinely struggled to praise his children no matter what they achieved. This created a scenario of discrimination towards Roby who felt that his achievements (balon d'or, goals etc) were never good enough for his father.

If you ask me I won't be surprise to see Luke Shaw flourish at an outside 6 EPL club. On top of that he's still 27, he's English (thus homegrown) and he's got ample experience at this level. At 30m I think he could become a coup signing for the likes of Leicester, Newcastle or even in Italy (Juve, Inter etc)

When’s the last time you said anything positive about United ? Just interested.

 

[devilish]

When’s the last time you said anything positive about United ? Just interested.

What's so negative in that post? I think that it was a quite balanced post regarding Luke Shaw

 

[devilish]

Shaw was having his best season under LvG before his leg break and looked insanely good so this part is just nonsense. Shaw's issue has and always will be his mentality. If you get a manager that can constantly motivate him the way he needs then he can be great. I'd argue that you want players at United who are strong enough mentally to motivate themselves however. Otherwise it's a constant battle.

So you agree with most of my post then

 

[Skills]

Yep - hope he has a strong WC and a good showing in his appearances for us, however limited they may be.

Not sure where he would actually go though. Big 6 all have good LB options. And would Luke let himself go to a non big 6 team? He might have a future at Newcastle anyway.

City are looking for a LB. Technically he'd fit right in especially considering how press resistant he is.

On a free, it would be a punt worth taking.

 

[Bwuk]

I can't see him putting Malacia out the team.

Malacia plays with a intensity that Shaw never shows. Ten Hag clearly wants to build a team that are aggressive and press high.

 

[iHicksy]

So you agree with most of my post then

Yup i'm just saying it isn't a fair reflection on LVG's influence on him (who I don't rate as a coach at all ).

 

[Alvaro Maestre]

I can't see him putting Malacia out the team.

Malacia plays with a intensity that Shaw never shows. Ten Hag clearly wants to build a team that are aggressive and press high.

not only intensity, Malacia also shows the same fighting attitude game after game, and that's a big issue with Shaw.

 

[Rozay]

Said this almost a month ago and got called a WUM.

I said the same at the time. There’s always a degree of new player favouritism, but from what I’ve seen of Malacia so far, the best contribution he could probably have THIS season would be if he manages to stir a response from Luke Shaw and get him anywhere near his best. Shaw at his best is far, far better and if he is up for it, I’d start him on Sunday no doubt.

 

[devilish]

Yup i'm just saying it isn't a fair reflection on LVG's influence on him (who I don't rate as a coach at all ).

Fair enough. So let me answer it quickly so we don't derail the thread further

When a player joins the club he's usually still very much influenced by the 'baggage' he brought with him from the other club. Players take their time to settle down, to understand their environment, what is being expected out of them and the manager's style. Most of the time the manager and the players are well sync. I mean why would a manager force the club to spend big money on a player he'll have to reinvent the wheel with. However sometimes it doesn't work that way. For example Evra and Vidic were massacred during their first few months at the club while Cole's settling down period took longer then that as SAF had to rewire the guy from being a goal poacher to becoming a complete forward. There are rare cases though were the player's previous coaching was better then the one he is receiving at the new club. Bruno for example was far more lethal in his first months then afterwards. We can say that at that particular period he single handily saved Ole's career.

LVG is 10 times the coach Ole was. It would be naïve to label a manager who coached a fantastic young Ajax side to glory (a big chunk of those players would struggle to recapture that form once moved elsewhere) and who managed the likes of Bayern and Barcelona as a shit coach. However LVG had zero idea how the EPL worked. By the time he joined United he was already ancient and set in his ways and that generation of managers (bar SAF) were too proud to try anything new.

 

[MUnchies]

Said this almost a month ago and got called a WUM.

What has that quote proven? because he played one decent game on International duty? I don't care what he does for England if he stinks up the place whenever he plays for Manchester United. No way he is displacing Malacia, I can bet on that.

 

[MUnchies]

I said the same at the time. There’s always a degree of new player favouritism, but from what I’ve seen of Malacia so far, the best contribution he could probably have THIS season would be if he manages to stir a response from Luke Shaw and get him anywhere near his best. Shaw at his best is far, far better and if he is up for it, I’d start him on Sunday no doubt.

"And if he is up for it", that alone should tell you he doesn't even have the mentality to start here. Every United player should be up for it ALWAYS not when they feel like it especially against City. If that's the only contribution you see Malacia having this season is to just stir a response from Shaw then you will be in for a shock. The only way Shaw displaces him is through injury.

 

[RedDevil@84]

Shaw was having his best season under LvG before his leg break and looked insanely good

Isn't the sample data like 7 games or something?

 

[bosnian_red]

I said the same at the time. There’s always a degree of new player favouritism, but from what I’ve seen of Malacia so far, the best contribution he could probably have THIS season would be if he manages to stir a response from Luke Shaw and get him anywhere near his best. Shaw at his best is far, far better and if he is up for it, I’d start him on Sunday no doubt.

I like Shaw at his best but even at his best, he just doesn't play with anywhere near the same intensity that Malacia does. Malacia is very good and pretty press resistant on the ball anyway so he has a lot of benefits, I like Malacia more defensively due to his aggressiveness while Shaw is way too passive (and his pace has really dropped a lot). Shaw's biggest benefit is of course his eye for a forward pass and the ability to execute it and then moving with the ball forward, but Malacia's intensity is just one of those infectious qualities that has made a big difference to us. Even that Brentford game when he came on, he changed the mood a bit with his cameo and just the attitude he showed. For a game like City away... we just have to go with Malacia with his intensity, because he's also got a very good understanding of the inverted fullback role already.

 

[RedDevil@84]

There does seem to be an anti-English/British sentiment in my opinion. The likes of Shaw, Maguire, AWB, Rashford and McTominay (Scottish, I know) have taken dogs abuse and called all sorts of names over the last two seasons, whilst very poor/non-existent performers like Eric Bailly, Anthony Martial, Donny van de Beek, Fred and Diogo Dalot seem to enjoy large pockets of support and are generally seen in a favourable light and/or portrayed as having being treated unfairly.

To be clear....I wouldn't say it's malicious or based in xenophobia/racism at all, I just think there are a few factors behind this...

1) We have a global fanbase. Many of our non-British forum members will naturally rate their league/'their' players higher than non-natives. Plus there is the natural tribalism that comes with supporting sports team i.e. "our lot are better than your lot".
2) Many posters seem to feel that English players get an easy ride in the press*
3) English football fans/media are generally perceived by non-English football fans to be arrogant/deluded - 'it's coming home', 'best league in the World' etc...and therefore have a general dislike of English football/players/supporters/press
4) The club seemed to openly pursue a policy of signing British players under Solskjaer, which led to some supporters labelling us 'Brexit FC'. It was perceived by many that Ole favoured the British players and therefore as Ole's popularity waned, this was used as a stick to beat him.
5) Certain individuals have fuelled the fire by claiming English players are preferred at United, despite there being little to no evidence for this (Eric Bailly)

There are definitely other factors at play here and it's a controversial subject for sure...but it does seem to me like some posters want certain players to fail, and I find that bizarre.

*on the point about the British press...I would say I strongly disagree that British players are treated favourably. I would say that the British press do love to build a player up quickly but then they love to tear them back down twice as fast!

The English players need to make only couple of good passes before the fans go "He is back" or start throwing around words like "World class player *"


* on his day

 

[elmo]

Shaw was having his best season under LvG before his leg break and looked insanely good so this part is just nonsense. Shaw's issue has and always will be his mentality. If you get a manager that can constantly motivate him the way he needs then he can be great. I'd argue that you want players at United who are strong enough mentally to motivate themselves however. Otherwise it's a constant battle.

Sir Alex already said this long ago when he was still the manager. Players these days earn too much at an early age that the manager will need to find a way to keep them focused because winning is no longer the top priority for the players especially when it has little impact on the money they’re earning.

 

[RedPed]

Happy to see Shaw admitting that he was not good enough and Ten Hag was right in benching him, now it's up to him to fight back for his spot, Malacia won't give it up easily

So long as he doesn't drop off a cliff like Maguire clearly has, there'll be enough games for the both of them.

 

[Bebestation]

The English players need to make only couple of good passes before the fans go "He is back" or start throwing around words like "World class player *"


* on his day

Whilst foreign players like Van De Beek gets support to this day whilst costig is so much money and can’t perform once.

 

[Rozay]

"And if he is up for it", that alone should tell you he doesn't even have the mentality to start here. Every United player should be up for it ALWAYS not when they feel like it especially against City. If that's the only contribution you see Malacia having this season is to just stir a response from Shaw then you will be in for a shock. The only way Shaw displaces him is through injury.

‘If he is up for it’ means that he is fit and ready. Cleary, if he is ‘up‘ for playing for his country against Germany at Wembley and play well so I’m sure he can play against City, as he has done many times.

As for your last sentence, it seems it is you who may be in for a shock because Shaw is the better player.

 

[Rolaholic]

His ability/talent has never been in question,he's proven that he's got plenty in him.

The problem has been and remains his bad habits, on and off the pitch, that he hasn't kicked yet and his lack of motivation whenever he gets comfortable when his position is safe.

He's a genuinely quality player when he's motivated. He played his best football for us when he had Blind and then Telles pushing and competing with him for a spot. Now he's got Malacia.

Just wish that he could keep that up all the time. That's what always seperates the great players from the good ones. At this stage of his career I'm not sure he has the mentality for that sort of consistency I'll gladly be wrong.

He seems self aware enough to acknowledge those faults and try to improve on them. For how long though is always the issue.

 

[iHicksy]

Isn't the sample data like 7 games or something?

I mean....can you remember any other time Luke Shaw was good for 7 games in a row?

 

[gza the genius]

I mean....can you remember any other time Luke Shaw was good for 7 games in a row?

The entirety of the 2020/2021 season.

 

[RedDevil@84]

Whilst foreign players like Van De Beek gets support to this day whilst costig is so much money and can’t perform once.

Oh of course. The cult of VdB and Martial FC are completely strange.

 

[MUnchies]

‘If he is up for it’ means that he is fit and ready. Cleary, if he is ‘up‘ for playing for his country against Germany at Wembley and play well so I’m sure he can play against City, as he has done many times.

As for your last sentence, it seems it is you who may be in for a shock because Shaw is the better player.

We will see. After two games he is been put on the bench or not even in match day squads. I don't really know what Shaw has done in a United shirt that makes you so confident he he displace a young hungry Malacia.

Why wouldn't he be up for it? he has barely played all season and not been injured all season, he just isn't that great and consistent enough and I am glad ETH recognized it ASAP.