You don't need to have put on weight to be unfit.
I'd say as you said though it's probably more MATCH fitness.
Not just general fitness.
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I'd say as you said though it's probably more MATCH fitness.
Not just general fitness.
Right now, it looks like Shaw is not suited enough to play wing back role. Afterall it a demanding role is the system. LVG has identified the weaknesses and Shaw has agreed too. The special programme will focus to improve him. No need to write him off.
He isn't going to turn into a skilfull wing back trickster. However, if LVG can successfully turn Kuyt, a defensive striker, into a sound wingback, why can't he improve Shaw.
He has the pace, looks good on the ball. He'll learn to beat a man and improve his crossing.
When LVG says he's not fit, I think he's taking about Shaw as a wing back, not Shaw the LB. You have to consider in this year's system all of last season's players will be unfit.
He isn't going to turn into a skilfull wing back trickster. However, if LVG can successfully turn Kuyt, a defensive striker, into a sound wingback, why can't he improve Shaw.
He has the pace, looks good on the ball. He'll learn to beat a man and improve his crossing.
When LVG says he's not fit, I think he's taking about Shaw as a wing back, not Shaw the LB. You have to consider in this year's system all of last season's players will be unfit.
This is why you should never judge players based on their World Cup performance only. Blind primarily a LB was converted to CM last season which was where he won the Player of the year and displayed his best form. He played two great passes against Spain and people think he's a top LB/LWB . Midfield is where he's best at. He can cover the LB and CB positions but would only be good as a backup for a team like United as a wingback/fullback. Vlaar looked like the best defender in the world playing in the world cup when instead he's playing for Villa who conceded 4th highest goals in the league. If you watched him a bit more his passing is nothing special but if you only watched him at the WC you'll have the impression that he's Rio in his prime. Playing 6 good games with the right atmosphere and spirit is whole different to playing consistently well throughout the league.This is a thread in the newbies which I wish I could delete from the interwebs and slap @Grinner. I predict that'll be getting some bumping with this latest news
On the Shaw part , we didn't spend 30m on what he is now but for what he's going to be in the next few years. He has just turned 19 which is when defenders are extremely young. When You see Baines being one of the top LBs in the world at 30 its scary to think how much years Shaw can give us even if he reaches his peak after 5 years. He's already among the rare breed of fullbacks who can defend extremely well and just need a wee bit tweaks in his game to make him a right player for us for years to come. And he showed it at Southampton that he can make the grade.
Which positions requires more stamina and fitness ? LB or LWB ?
No difference really, it depends on the specific set up and how the match evolves. The more back and forth the match is the more full pitch sprints you have to do and that will be the decider.
LWB
VG has already said that he given the go ahead for both Shaw and Herrera. If it wasn't the case then he wouldn't have said it in the first place. FFS We're talking about a man whose not afraid of challenging Bayern Munich's top guns and criticizing our pre season marketing ploys.
Returning to Shaw, the boy was trained and groomed to be LB. Now he's expected to become a Wing back which requires alot more running and stamina. Under such circumstances a player need to be on top of his game as he's expected to cover for two roles (LB and LW). We've already seen Rafael breaking in pieces and returning back home so I wonder why people are surprised if VG feels that Shaw is not ready.
Returning to Shaw, the boy was trained and groomed to be LB. Now he's expected to become a Wing back which requires alot more running and stamina. Under such circumstances a player need to be on top of his game as he's expected to cover for two roles (LB and LW). We've already seen Rafael breaking in pieces and returning back home so I wonder why people are surprised if VG feels that Shaw is not ready.
LWB by a mile.
This is a thread in the newbies which I wish I could delete from the interwebs and slap @Grinner. I predict that'll be getting some bumping with this latest news
This latest news doesn't change anything regarding what you've quoted. Stamina's got feck all to do with whether he's got the attacking chops to play as a wing back. Which is, I agree, a doubt (posted something along those lines myself yesterday)
Anyway, this 352 formation isn't set in stone. He didn't used it when he had a full squad for Holland and he probably won't used it when he has the squad he wants at United. He's said 433 is his formation of choice loads of times. Luke Shaw will cope just fine in that formation.
Luke Shaw(t) of breath.
I'll get my coat.
I'll get my coat.
"I predict that Shaw will end up struggeling to be a starter"
what a bullshit! Hope the most United supporters are more patient with this boy. Of course it will take some time till he performs at the level we bought him for. Same story with De Gea. To have the expectation he makes us better from day 1 is so deluded
what a bullshit! Hope the most United supporters are more patient with this boy. Of course it will take some time till he performs at the level we bought him for. Same story with De Gea. To have the expectation he makes us better from day 1 is so deluded
Shaw has that stocky frame like Rooney, I would imagine they need quite a lot of hard running to get into peak fitness. Nothing to worry about and we still have 2/3 pre season games left. As long as he is ready by the start of the season what's the problem?.
Playing wing back is a role you need to have maximum stamina, and Shaw is perhaps a little behind on where LVG want's him right now, no big issue.
Playing wing back is a role you need to have maximum stamina, and Shaw is perhaps a little behind on where LVG want's him right now, no big issue.
Shaw looks like a natural athlete to me. The muscle tone he's got at such a young age is amazing to me.
More like AnderShaw am I right guys?
He's built absolutely nothing like Rooney
Quality from LvG.
Looked quite chubby on the few pics we have seen. And with LvGs comments he really seems to be unfit. I hope we can get him in shape soon enough
Blind didn't even impress me for the Netherlands from an attacking perspective at the WC. He had 2 great assists in the opening game but I don't think he's anymore attacking than Shaw is, probably less.
Like this from LVG, why not call him on it and make it public, it goes to show that the team will be fit. LWB or LB's these days should probably be the fittest players on the pitch so it should be a given.
Remember when Moyes publicly called out Welbeck for not staying behind after training to practice his finishing? Danny's reaction was basically "I stay behind every day, I don't know what the f*ck he's on about."
At least Shaw has accepted that LvG is correct.
At least Shaw has accepted that LvG is correct.
He is quite young and has lot of good aspects to his play. A full back who is defensively good has become rarity these days so that is a plus. If he has to play as wing-back in 3-5-2 system, he will need to improve on attacking aspect and do lot of running so need to be fit to that level. Thankfully, in LvG we have a coach who understands each player very well and works on them individually so I don't think there is much to worry. He should be fine.
Has he come out and said something?
Yeah, agreed. Has an eye for a pass but that's about it. Can hardly ever remember him beating his man.
He certainly doesn't have anywhere as much pace as Shaw either.
By the way, Pogue, I wasn't having a dig at Welbeck there. All things considered, I would take his version of events over Moyes'.
Oh yeah, me too. In fact that was the first point in last season where I started wondering whether Moyes was losing the dressing room. He seemed to be wanting to take credit for Welbeck's form which ended up, understandably, pissing the player off.
Re Shaw, I was wondering if he'd actually come out and said anything himself about his fitness. Doesn't seem he has. The last bit about "good messages from Tony Strudwick" is a bit strange. Either he lacks fitness or not. If he's unfit they're not going to turn it round in a week or two, so what are the good messages?
Van Gaal can be quite confusing in what he says. I think it's a language thing. I suspect we're going to spend a lot of time this season picking apart slightly obtuse quotes!
I said a while back Shaw and Herrera are signings that will improve after the first season or two and may not excel in their first year. However Herrera already looks good, but Shaw is definitely the former, he is very young and has talent, but rushing him panicking about him and overloading him will lead to him flopping. The problem is without the stability of SAF you become like every other top club, reactionary and panicky, I can guarantee lots on here will label him a bad signing if he does not excel in his first season.
Why do people think fitness is judged entirely around how slim/toned someone looks? I know people who don't have an ounce of fat on them who literally look like they're going to die after playing football for 5 minutes.
Also, with the amount of training and running around footballers naturally have to do, I don't really get how it's possible to end up being particularly unfit. I mean unless the England camp are an utter joke Shaw was training every day in Brazil. If you're ok weight wise and training and not old, you must need to have a staggeringly bad diet to be in noticably bad shape fitness wise...and your fitness doesn't deteriorate in 10 days.
Van Gaal's probably being a little bit misleading. Some area of Shaw's game needs work and it's better to say it's a fitness thing than say "he's not good enough yet"...just guessing though.
Also, with the amount of training and running around footballers naturally have to do, I don't really get how it's possible to end up being particularly unfit. I mean unless the England camp are an utter joke Shaw was training every day in Brazil. If you're ok weight wise and training and not old, you must need to have a staggeringly bad diet to be in noticably bad shape fitness wise...and your fitness doesn't deteriorate in 10 days.
Van Gaal's probably being a little bit misleading. Some area of Shaw's game needs work and it's better to say it's a fitness thing than say "he's not good enough yet"...just guessing though.
Early signs can be misleading. Young and Macheda looked great for us early on, while Evra and De Gea looked like bad signings after a few matches. Some of you lot need to stop being so dramatic.
I'd agree with that. Especially when you consider that the freshest comparisons in LVG's mind are probably Valencia on the other flank and Kuyt from the WC. Both are monsters athletically speaking. It's also no surprise that an 18 year old can't quite run up and down a 120 yard stretch at pace over and over again for 90 minutes, which is what wingbacks usually have to do. I don't think anyone is that freakishly fit at 18.
to be fair, while van Gaal's command of english isnt too shabby perhaps in these cases, this is where his words can be misleading. he's already spoke with shaw anyway so the resolution is already in place
All I hear in LvG's words is that Shaw may not be playing much over the next couple of weeks because he'll be on a different training schedule to some of the others. He's just turned 19, he played a lot of football last season and he's had an odd sort of summer in a training camp where the manager's focus is on the starting lineup, not him. He might have been better off having extra holiday and doing a full pre-season. It might be something specific they need to work on, which could be his sprint speed as easily as his stamina.
I really don't think it means anything. As long as Shaw understands why he isn't starting/playing 90 minutes on the tour it doesn't matter.
I really don't think it means anything. As long as Shaw understands why he isn't starting/playing 90 minutes on the tour it doesn't matter.
So basically, Shaw's fitness isn't where LvG wants it to be?
He has what, 3 weeks till the season starts? He'll be fine by then.
He has what, 3 weeks till the season starts? He'll be fine by then.
Think this was more of psychological warning to both Shaw and the full squad that everything they do will be questioned under the new regime - he's setting an example and using a new signing to make the point.
He looks like he's carrying too much weight to me. I imagine Van Gaal thinks the same.
Even if Shaw doesn't adapt to playing as a wing back, it's pretty clear that LvG wants to move into a 4-3-3 as soon as he feels he has the squad to do so, and Shaw will look a lot better and a lot more confident as a left back.
I can't say I've noticed but it amazes me how footballers manage to be overweight/unfit either way. You'd have to eat more or less nothing but the worst kind of crap, and a lot of it, because the amount of excercise they get through should more or less take care of things on its own.
Either that or some of them do a lot less training than is perceived.
van Gaal never said Shaw isn't fit, he just said he needs to be fitter for the role he's playing.
That's how fat he looks.
He's built like a tank, always been and as he grows up he will become even larger. How can a player that's played over 30 games over a season and took part in World cup training and started pre-season training earlier not be as fit as the other players?
That's how fat he looks.
I think that's the issue. You can exercise as much as you want but if your diet is terrible you'll always be a bit of a fat bar-steward, especially if you're an individual who is prone to putting on weight. footballers don't compete in weight classes they might not have much motivation to watch what they eat and usually only train for a few hours each day, which gives them a lot of time to sit on their arse watching telly and eating pringles.
The flipside being skinny cnuts who can eat whatever the hell they want, do very little exercise and still look really trim. The latter do tend to baloon once they go above a certain age, mind you.
EDIT: Based on the photo on the previous age I don't think Shaw is overweight, mind you.
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