This summer. De Gea has developed into a world class player, he wasn't a top rung signing like RVP was.
Luis Suárez
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss Amad saving our blushes in a win against Southampton as well as our now annual loss at home to Brighton. They discuss Amorim's post-match comments, revisit how mid-table we may or may not be, and discuss some transfer news.
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This summer. De Gea has developed into a world class player, he wasn't a top rung signing like RVP was.
Arrogant? If I was so "arrogant" I'd be saying that we'll win the title next season etc etc. I don't think we'll be near top spot.It's opinions - nothing to do with arrogance. We're a bloody huge football club who all of a sudden have a winner in charge and we're spending lots of money on good players. It's not arrogant to think we'll be challenging for Top 4!
Only Neuer was available that summer who was better. He had his mind made up to go to Bayern anyway.
He was a huge signing. He had won the Europa league as a 19 year old.
It's opinions - nothing to do with arrogance. We're a bloody huge football club who all of a sudden have a winner in charge and we're spending lots of money on good players. It's not arrogant to think we'll be challenging for Top 4!
Top four is fair enough.
This criticism of Arsenal and their players who won a trophy and finished 15 points clear of United last year seems odd given your own predicament, given your signings this summer aren't top tier players for next season at least.
Any Suarez news lads?
Yeah, he's joining Barcelona.
Nothing new. He remains a racist, cheating, diving, biting bastard.
someone posted a tweet about the ban being reduced to 1month and 5 international games!
That can't be true surely? They'd at least wait until Barcelona had bought him first
That can't be true surely? They'd at least wait until Barcelona had bought him first
I have said that I think we'll scrap it out with you lot and Liverpool for 3rd and 4th place. I am still not convinced by Arsenal, not while you have Wenger there. An FA Cup win is lovely but Portsmouth & Wigan also won the same trophy in recent years. IF you were wining titles every other season then I'd be wary but like I've already said, I don't get worried by Arsenal. Chelsea and City worry me and they're the teams we need to climb above to get back to where we were.
His ban was always getting reduced, even if he stayed at Liverpool. It was just Fifa trying to act big in front of the worlds press etc etc.
True. Though it's still ridiculous.
yep. Once the world cup is over, it'll be reduced.
I will believe the ban is reduced when I hear it from FIFA. On what grounds can they possibly reduce it? He has done it twice before. He lied about it. He has shown zero contrition. They should extend it.
RAWK is going to explode if this is reduced.
Shaw looks a more capable LB now than Evra looked for the last 2 seasons. Fair enough Evra still has the jump on him in terms of experience but good management and training can help to bridge that gap. Herrera is not Carrick's replacement as it looks like we do not see replacing Carrick as a priority at the moment, all the while he was completely out of sorts last season and wasn't even doing the things that are normal to his game well so again with this season under a competent manager lets wait and see. However only Evra has been replace of the two and when you consider that many feel he has been a bit of a liability for the last 2 seasons due to a certain lack of stamina in getting up and down the flank replacing him with a more defensively responsible and more athletic younger LB with huge potential has to be considered a forward step.
As for your league position you haven't finished in any other position than 3rd or 4th and for the past 2 seasons and you have been 4th in all but 3 of the last 9 seasons, so second or more is wishful thinking unless you do something this summer that is a real game changer for your squad and that looks unlikely. Its also a bit weird that you are using your league position to justify some sort of sense of superiority as last season was the first time in 8 seasons that United have finished outside of the top 2 league positions. A squad based decline of the type you are talking about cannot be judged on the basis on 1 season where there is a large issue that presents itself as an extenuating circumstance. Surely you would need more than 1 season to predict the type of decline you are talking about?
Where is the evidence to support this?
Whatever rung you are shopping on now, we are undoubtedly a couple of levels above.
Fecks sake. What a ridiculous thing to try and point score in.
Ozil and Sanchez would be as high a rung as it gets. Unless you're bidding for Suarez, Messi, Ronaldo or Zlatan, I don't see what 'higher rung' you're shopping on.
Very good post.
Fecks sake. What a ridiculous thing to try and point score in.
Ozil and Sanchez would be as high a rung as it gets. Unless you're bidding for Suarez, Messi, Ronaldo or Zlatan, I don't see what 'higher rung' you're shopping on.
I'm not trying to point score, Alistair made a point so I countered it with my opinion.
Ozil is a top player they got fair enough that's one and counts as an anomaly until they actually demonstrate that that is now the level they consistently are looking at so when you talk about rungs (and it was Alistair who raised that term, not I) you actually have to look at the typical type of player that Arsenal have signed, and over the last 4 seasons that has not been an Ozil and has been more at Yaya Sanogo level .
Sanchez is a player who is subject to press speculation only so far, no concrete proof of either action or intent to purchase. Sanchez is also a player we have been linked to ourselves over the last couple of seasons so if you want to count failed or speculated bids as proof of levels of ambitions that is fine, I count actions only.
Ozil's signing cannot be considered the current level that Arsenal are shopping at till we see more similar level signing, meanwhile speculation is just exactly that, speculation.
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Yeah but you're not allowed an opinion because you are a NOOB!
In all seriousness, Alistair does make some valid points. We HAVE regressed a lot. Our squad of players end of last season wasn't good enough to keep winning titles.
However, with added additions of Shaw, Herrera, a genuine World Class manager and hopefully 2-3 more players - we'll be more than capable of going for the Top 4.
We are deluding ourselves if we think we'll challenge for next season's title though. I'll be more than happy finishing 4th, taking Arsenal's place.
The league was so tight last year and I expect it to be the same this year. So finishing third or fourth would mean that we would have challenged for the title. To what extent is questionable.
I would say we lost around 10-15 points just because of the "Moyes effect", and I would be really surprised if we don't add that to our tally this year.
Remind me again how much experience Pelligrini had before taking over at city and how many trophies he had won in spain. Also, he took over a team which finished 11 points behind the champions and closed the gap.
Do you not think LVG is an improvement on Moyes.. a honest question?.
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By the end of the window I'd imagine most of the top teams will be in that ball park give or take a few million. Anyway my point stands; £60m for two players isn't extraordinary and isn't a green light to being challengers.
Moyes was a terrible appointment and LvG is an improvement, I think.
The Pelligrini example is a fair one to some extent but by the same token you could use Scolari as an even better one seeing as he came from international management with a strong CV only to fail at Chelsea. We could throw counter examples around to prove a point, I guess.
I also think that the City side Pelligrini inherited was better than the United one LvG is getting, which I think has some fundamental issues that were exposed regularly last season. Laying the blame solely at Moyes' door would be a catastrophic error in my opinion. The central midfield was invisible, the attackers lacked creativity and your full backs were weak plus the CBs were a tier below what you'd become accustomed to. New buys will remedy some issues but the centre of the park remains a doubt as it was so pedestrian.
Right. So at this point, none of them. Other than in your imagination, of course.
I didn't say it was. Do you have any other utterly worthless "points" you feel you need to bring up?
This. We cannot be thinking about 3rd or 4th spots. Our aim has to be to get above Chelsea and City- both of whom are mega spenders and are the realistic short to medium term title contenders with recent PL success.
You can't compare LVG to Scolari just because both come from a International background. LVG has vast experience in club level management and Top tier clubs at that.Plus You shouldn't set failure at Chelsea as a benchmark.
If you looked at the end of 2012/13 season, not many City players would have made it to the United squad, but with a new manager they improved and performed better (Dzeko,Nasri etc..,). Moyes was not the sole reason, but he was probably the main reason. Yes there were deficiencies in the squad, but he made it worse, by alienating players and never had the respect from the beginning. Only time will tell how much of last season was down to Moyes.
LVG has brought in optimism throughout the club and with it great expectations. He has started to address the issues you have mentioned and its not delusion from our part to improve by about 15 points at least. We lost to Spurs, Westbrom, Sunderland, Everton, Newcastle and drew with Southampton, Fulham. That set of results alone could be improved upon, don't you think?, just ignoring the big teams?.
Clearly. We didn't spend £60 million on 2 players to "improve the squad" as Alistair stated. They were signed to go into the first team. I thought I made it perfectly clear when I posted this.
Obviously, in your infinite wisdom you took this to mean it was "a green light to being challengers." But it wasn't. I will use smaller words for you in future.
Let's hope they think they already have in Lambert!
Paul Scholes: 'Suarez will regret leaving Liverpool as did Owen and Torres. Two players who never experience that kind of adulation again.'
I am sure both of them are crying themselves to sleep every night with their PL and CL medals.
Easy to say that, but didn't Dalglish get this team to two finals, scrapping a win in one, the year before Rodgers. Swansea won a cup the year Rodgers left.
A rather weak attempt to undermine Rodgers given that he's worked wonders with the current team.
I just remembered. Wasn't Barcelona banned from transfers last season?
Arsenal and Liverpool will be slogging it out for fourth and both will finish a good 10 points or so behind King Louis next season.
You heard it here first.
You heard it here first.
In relation to the Scolari point, I don't think it is at all a valid comparison to LVG. Scolari has done nothing in club management. Hopped around teams in South America largely. LVG has a history of success in Europe and Europe's biggest clubs.
Do I think LVG is enough to take us top? No. We still have issues some of which you touched upon above. But do I think we should now have enough with our signings and manager to at least be in contention for top 4? Yes I do. And I don't think it's a ridiculous claim to suggest that. Liverpool last year and United last year show how quickly hints can change.
For about 10 minutes, then they appealed and of course it was lifted.
Not lifted. Postponed pending appeal verdict.
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