The argument has been simplified to 'Moyes was here so it doesn't count.'
The ignorance of the rest of the problem is why the belief remains that United are still up there among the best sides in the league.
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss Amad saving our blushes in a win against Southampton as well as our now annual loss at home to Brighton. They discuss Amorim's post-match comments, revisit how mid-table we may or may not be, and discuss some transfer news.
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The argument has been simplified to 'Moyes was here so it doesn't count.'
The ignorance of the rest of the problem is why the belief remains that United are still up there among the best sides in the league.
LVG is easily a better manager than anybody in the PL apart from Jose. Have a look at the respective honours list. Him and Jose are miles ahead of the rest.
And Arsenal are? Please give reasons for this?
Those problems we'rent there in a way that stopped us walking the title the season before. Surely with a more than competent manager now at the helm and new signings with possibly more to come, you don't really believe that there is not every chance that we will be back among the challengers again at least?
I look at that honours list and I see a massive gap in recent years, a tendency to fall out with players and acrimonious departures.
Let's face it - before United got Van Gaal no-one was putting him in their top five managers in the world. Now, half the forum is.
We're two seasons on. You've regressed.
The argument that two seasons ago you won the league is a bit worthless now you've lost your manager, Ferdinand, Vidic, and Carrick and Evra are now getting on past their best.
Even if you stay the same in this league, you go backwards.
Whereas Wenger,Rodgers and Pellegrini have won tons of trophies in that time.
Wenger has one trophy in 9 seasons.
Whereas Wenger,Rodgers and Pellegrini have won tons of trophies in that time.
Wenger has one trophy in 9 seasons.
Your argument is so weak here.
By point out facts? Its always a weak debating technique.
Also LVG hasnt been a club manager for the last 3 football seasons so he couldn't have won anything.
What a wind up merchant this Alastair guy is, he literally makes stuff up as he goes along.
LVG is a good manager. He's got an inferior squad to Pellegrini and Mourinho at least and his managerial ability is not going to overhaul those two unless serious additions are made to your squad.
This is hardly a controversial view outside of this forum.
Yeah but you're not allowed an opinion because you are a NOOB!
In all seriousness, Alistair does make some valid points. We HAVE regressed a lot. Our squad of players end of last season wasn't good enough to keep winning titles.
However, with added additions of Shaw, Herrera, a genuine World Class manager and hopefully 2-3 more players - we'll be more than capable of going for the Top 4.
We are deluding ourselves if we think we'll challenge for next season's title though. I'll be more than happy finishing 4th, taking Arsenal's place.
I think we'll all have to bow to your vastly superior experience on that one.
I do have massive experience of it, you're right.
Yeah but you're not allowed an opinion because you are a NOOB!
In all seriousness, Alistair does make some valid points. We HAVE regressed a lot. Our squad of players end of last season wasn't good enough to keep winning titles.
However, with added additions of Shaw, Herrera, a genuine World Class manager and hopefully 2-3 more players - we'll be more than capable of going for the Top 4.
We are deluding ourselves if we think we'll challenge for next season's title though. I'll be more than happy finishing 4th, taking Arsenal's place.
Shaw and Herrera, I imagine, are just squad improvements. You have to be after a higher rung of player to really regenerate this squad immediately. Otherwise, you're looking at a 2-3 season rebuild.
Shaw and Herrera will both go straight into the first team, I'd imagine.
Yeah but you're not allowed an opinion because you are a NOOB!
In all seriousness, Alistair does make some valid points. We HAVE regressed a lot. Our squad of players end of last season wasn't good enough to keep winning titles.
However, with added additions of Shaw, Herrera, a genuine World Class manager and hopefully 2-3 more players - we'll be more than capable of going for the Top 4.
We are deluding ourselves if we think we'll challenge for next season's title though. I'll be more than happy finishing 4th, taking Arsenal's place.
Erm not exactly.....
If spend 100million plus this summer on top of the squad we already got, your telling me you would be happy with 4th? Sorry, But That's ridiculous. We already have spent £125 something million since Moyes took over.
Our squad as it stands is easily good enough for top, with the addition of a few more quality signings, we should be going for the league. Thankfully our manager won't share your expectations.
Some imagination you've got there.
We'll bring in more players. Shaw is more than a squad improvement - he's a very talented left back and with Van Gaal's tutelage, will only get better. Herrera is also an extremely good signing, I have watched quite a bit of him for the last few seasons and I am excited by him. Put it this way, I'd rather Shaw than Gibbs and Herrera to the extremely overrated Jack Wilshere!
Don't forget, we have one of the best manager's in world football at the helm again. Look at what LVG is doing with the current Holland side. I don't really rate their midfield or defence but they are having a fantastic tournament.
Whilst I know you Gooners enjoy Man Utd hovering around 7th place, don't get used to it. We're simply too huge a football club to stay down there. Watch re-runs of last season and enjoy the summer because next season we won't be pushovers again.
We didn't spend the guts of £60 million on two players to merely "improve the squad", I think that much is clear.
If the only consideration is trophies won then it's difficult to argue with that. However, it's a pretty simplistic black and white way of looking at it. Experience of managing in the league is a factor. It took Rafa a couple of seasons to get Liverpool's league form to be better than decent whilst having done it all in Spain and the CL.
Based on what he did with his players last season and likelihood that he's a long-term appointment I'm far happier Liverpool ended up with Rodgers than a "name" from the continent. His lack of trophies are more to do with his managerial roles than anything else.
LvG has a 'turnaround' job on his hands at United. The 13/14 season has the potential to be United's seminal season in that it may lead to a period of throwing money at managers and players to get it 'right'. There are so many examples of this type of strategy to simply disregard it as a Liverpool fan propagating wishful thinking.
As alistair points out, LvG wasn't renowned on here as a world great prior to his appointment. Now we are supposed to believe he's one of the top two managers in the league. We shall see.
It's actually not that much in modern football. Certainly not compared to what other top 4 contenders are spending.
Erm not exactly.....
If spend 100million plus this summer on top of the squad we already got, your telling me you would be happy with 4th? Sorry, But That's ridiculous. We already have spent £125 something million since Moyes took over.
Our squad as it stands is easily good enough for top, with the addition of a few more quality signings, we should be going for the league. Thankfully our manager won't share your expectations.
I like your optimism. We shouldn't be expecting to win the title next season though as I think many will be dissapointed come May 2015. It's going to be a straightforward 2 horse race for me between City and Chelsea.
Then they'll be ourselves, Arsenal and Liverpool scrapping for 3rd and 4th. I'll be shocked if we don't achieve at least 4th and have a good cup run
Such as?
You're over-rating the players you've signed, at least at their current level.
Herrera over Wilshere is just pure delusion at this stage.
Chelsea and City have spent. That's nothing new. What other top four contenders have spent £60 million on two players? Spurs? Liverpool? Arsenal? Everton?Lallana and Emra Can innit. Gonna fire Pool to the treble
Wilshere is injured all of the time - wouldn't want him anywhere near United. As overrated as you can get.
And don't all supporters overrate their own players a little? Don't you think Shaw and Herrera are good players then?
Wilshere breaks himself when he farts.
You can argue that Carrick and Evra were past their best in the same season that we won the league and were still good enough to be part of a side that walked the league, as for Ferdinand and Vidic point taken lets see how that goes as we still have 3 CB's at the club who made up part of that side (albeit a supporting role) and are now being asked to step up in Ferdinand and Vidic absence, so those players are not new arrivals who haven't been there with this team.
As for going backward if standing still that's a flawed philosophy exposed by the fact that Arsenal up until last season (when you actually started spending and won something) have been the epitome of a club standing still up to then and you still were a permanent fixture in 4th place. Every season you are guaranteed to finish in 4th and i'd bet on you doing the same next season as I don't see serious signs of progress, meanwhile you can argue that last season was a false position for united (brought about by a manager clearly out of his depth) and next season will actually be a test of how far we've declined if at all. To take a season like the last and assume on that basis that we have gone backwards as a club is wishful thinking at best, there were extenuating circumstances last season that will (by and large) not be there this season.
I think they're good players but when you consider Chelsea's signings, they're not exactly game-changers.
You're basically shopping on that second rung.
Arsenal shopped on the third rung for many years but it's looking like we're going to first/second rung now. It's yet to be seen if United are going to join that first rung club this summer.
They were past their best in 2012-13 but still competent. Their replacements are arguably not on their level.
The argument that we're destined to finish 4th forever is boring and inaccurate. We might finish 2nd. We might finish 5th. There are no guarantees any more, as you demonstrated last year.
Of course he will. Doesn't mean it's a realistic goal or that he has underperformed if he doesn't deliver a title challenge.
According to Agencia News, FIFA will reduce Suarez's ban to 5 International matches and 1 month of footballing activities. Ridiculous if true, FIFA are a bunch of pussies pandering to Barcelona. Guess that means the transfer is pretty much confirmed.
Wait a minute - you've signed Ozil. And that's it. And we're trying to establish ourselves as a CL club again - Herrera and Shaw wouldn't exactly look out of place playing for a Top 4 club, no? Chelsea, at the moment, are on on another level to us and Arsenal.
I don't get Gooners. One FA Cup win in 9 years and you're all giddy. Arse don't worry me one jot these days. Not when you've got Sir Chesney Hawks in the net, Jenkinson at right back, those central defenders and no striker.
Who are Agencia News?
Some South American news agency, apparently they're reliable.
We've has our worst Premier League season ever mate and they still couldn't beat us.
De gea and RVP.
If Luke Shaw turns out to be good signing all we will hear from bitter rivals is how expensive he was for a teenager. Just like when we signed Rooney.
Jenkinson doesn't play right back for Arsenal more than about twice a season.
Szczesny was great last season. You're just an arrogant United fan who's got no grip on the evidenced reality, sadly.
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